How Bout Dem Bears?

Realt Dearg Sec · 08-12-2016 3:24am

So how are we feeling about this weekend? Our draft position is not what it used to be but we don't look like we have many more wins left on the schedule. Beating a divisional opponent is always nice but in the unlikely event of it happening I can't help but worry that all we would be doing is assisting the Packers.

Anyway yesterday there was a rumour that Fangio was on the chopping block. The whole thing had a stink of bull**** about it seeing as how a) he is the only coaching bright spot we have and b) the reporter (for the Tribune no less) has already been caught out making up a story from either thin air or dodgy sources once this year. Anyway they came out and categorically denied it today. Which is nice.

Also noticed that NFL.com's most recent Top 25 rookie rankings include THREE Bears, more than any other team (and incidentally there's only one other rookie from the division). Not sure how much stock I put in such a ranking list, but by any measure, Pace knocked it out of the park with Floyd (most sacks of any rookie), Howard (on pace for 1000 yards despite not being the no.1 RB until several weeks into the season), and Whitehair (an absolute steal and the heart of a very solid O-line interior when everyone is healthy). If he has another draft like that (and especially does a half decent job drafting a QB), I think we'll be very competitive next year once we're healthy.

Innish_Rebel · 08-12-2016 10:02am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So how are we feeling about this weekend? Our draft position is not what it used to be but we don't look like we have many more wins left on the schedule. Beating a divisional opponent is always nice but in the unlikely event of it happening I can't help but worry that all we would be doing is assisting the Packers.

Anyway yesterday there was a rumour that Fangio was on the chopping block. The whole thing had a stink of bull**** about it seeing as how a) he is the only coaching bright spot we have and b) the reporter (for the Tribune no less) has already been caught out making up a story from either thin air or dodgy sources once this year. Anyway they came out and categorically denied it today. Which is nice.

Also noticed that NFL.com's most recent Top 25 rookie rankings include THREE Bears, more than any other team (and incidentally there's only one other rookie from the division). Not sure how much stock I put in such a ranking list, but by any measure, Pace knocked it out of the park with Floyd (most sacks of any rookie), Howard (on pace for 1000 yards despite not being the no.1 RB until several weeks into the season), and Whitehair (an absolute steal and the heart of a very solid O-line interior when everyone is healthy). If he has another draft like that (and especially does a half decent job drafting a QB), I think we'll be very competitive next year once we're healthy.

Agreed on the 3 rookies - they are a breath of fresh air and also shows how it is possible to really build through the draft... regarding high picks - hard to know, we need a QB but the best young QB at the moment was drafted in the 2nd round (Carr) so does a top 5 pick put too much pressure on the pick due to all the press coverage???

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-12-2016 2:12am

Well, it's the oldest rivalry in football this weekend, and still the best even if we haven't been living up to our side of the deal often the last few years. Playing spoiler against the Packers is basically our Super Bowl these days, anybody give us a shot of pulling it off? Obviously it's unlikely. Barkley seems competent enough as a backup but his limitations are clear enough as well. Admittedly he'll have Alshon back but two things about that: 1) A game-manager type of QB is less likely to throw to Alshon for various reasons and 2) Alshon hasn't been great this year by any means. That's the pessimistic stuff. Personally I have faith that Alshon will be gunning for it Sunday, and if the ball is going his way he'll do something with it. At the very least he will be drawing coverage away from the others, who might have learned to catch a ball in the last few weeks. What I really want is for Loggains to stop forgetting about Jordan Howard as the game goes on. I understand you can't run a lot if you're chasing a game, but sometimes I think he just tries to get cute. We have a guy who will cause the Packers palpitations. Use him!

The D has been getting better over time, although McPhee hasn't looked right at all and in general the LBs aren't up to scratch without Freeman around. Obviously our secondary is not good at all and with Rodgers playing like he did last week we could be in serious trouble. But it's not rocket science from our POV: get our DL into the game, and especially go hunting Rodgers, early and often. I have faith that we can give them a proper game and fight to the end. A win would be spectacular but I just don't want any opponent, especially THAT opponent, taking the Bears for granted.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 15-12-2016 10:57am

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Agreed on the 3 rookies - they are a breath of fresh air and also shows how it is possible to really build through the draft... regarding high picks - hard to know, we need a QB but the best young QB at the moment was drafted in the 2nd round (Carr) so does a top 5 pick put too much pressure on the pick due to all the press coverage???

I think Winston, Cam, Luck all are proof that there is no such thing as too much pressure if you are good enough and avoid injury.

Innish_Rebel · 15-12-2016 3:13pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

I think Winston, Cam, Luck all are proof that there is no such thing as too much pressure if you are good enough and avoid injury.

True - I'm not arguing on those 3 but looking at other 1st round QB picks in recent years:

Bortles*
Manziel
Bridgewater*
EJ Manuel
RG3
Tannehill*
Weeden
Locker
Gabbert
Ponder

A couple who are decent (*) but a good few busts there!!! The key point being good enough & avoiding injury.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 15-12-2016 3:16pm

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

True - I'm not arguing on those 3 but looking at other 1st round QB picks in recent years:

Bortles*
Manziel
Bridgewater*
EJ Manuel
RG3
Tannehill*
Weeden
Locker
Gabbert
Ponder

A couple who are decent (*) but a good few busts there!!! The key point being good enough & avoiding injury.

But I don't think you can say the best young QB is from the second round as proof of anything. A lot of the Qb's you mentioned were first round picks out of necessity. Ponder, Locker, Weeden and Gabbert being examples. Manziel was a flyer and RG3 actually cant really be called a bust, he had one of the best rookie seasons ever before injury ruined him.

Badabing · 18-12-2016 10:32pm

We're 4th pick now

Realt Dearg Sec · 19-12-2016 3:34am

That hurt so badly. We played well enough to win it but those goddamn interceptions. I genuinely think the better team lost.

Brendan Bendar · 19-12-2016 9:57am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That hurt so badly. We played well enough to win it but those goddamn interceptions. I genuinely think the better team lost.

Don't know what game you were watching.

If you keep throwing long you will get some.

Bears played well for ONE QUARTER.

Packers dropped 3 cast iron TDs in the end zone.

Losing the run of yourself there, mate.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 19-12-2016 12:51pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Don't know what game you were watching.

If you keep throwing long you will get some.

Bears played well for ONE QUARTER.

Packers dropped 3 cast iron TDs in the end zone.

Losing the run of yourself there, mate.

Might be losing the run of yourself a little there Brendan.

The Bears were absolutely the best team there yesterday. Some dropped passes in the end zoneare exactly that dropped passes. The interceptions killed the bears.

Played well though and have to be optimistic if your a Bears fan that next season will be better.

For the Packers it's a pity Rodgers is injured again, their season will fizzle out with a first round loss if they manage to make their way into the playoffs.

Christy42 · 19-12-2016 1:13pm

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

True - I'm not arguing on those 3 but looking at other 1st round QB picks in recent years:

Bortles*
Manziel
Bridgewater*
EJ Manuel
RG3
Tannehill*
Weeden
Locker
Gabbert
Ponder

A couple who are decent (*) but a good few busts there!!! The key point being good enough & avoiding injury.

A good team working out draft order is more important than a high draft pick in the end. Then there is always some randomness in injury and how they grow up personality wise. Plus how they react to how different the college game is is important. I mean looking back at it who could really argue Brady deserved a round 1 pick on his college career.

There will always be some randomness. Especially as they will be playing against tougher defenses. It is how they react that is important. Peyton was a bust in his first year but had the mental strength and willpower to adjust.

Then you have the fact that qbs are so important they tend to go early even in a crappy draft class like last year. No way Goff and Went were the top two players in that draft but they were qbs.

Brendan Bendar · 19-12-2016 2:37pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Might be losing the run of yourself a little there Brendan.

The Bears were absolutely the best team there yesterday. Some dropped passes in the end zoneare exactly that dropped passes. The interceptions killed the bears.

Played well though and have to be optimistic if your a Bears fan that next season will be better.

For the Packers it's a pity Rodgers is injured again, their season will fizzle out with a first round loss if they manage to make their way into the playoffs.

Heh heh, little bit sour there, but well done, good performance they did play well.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 19-12-2016 2:40pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Heh heh, little bit sour there, but well done, good performance they did play well.

I'm not sour i'm not a Bears fan, Redskins for my sins. Just thought the Bears were the better side yesterday.

Realt Dearg Sec · 19-12-2016 3:42pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That hurt so badly. We played well enough to win it but those goddamn interceptions. I genuinely think the better team lost.

Don't know what game you were watching.

If you keep throwing long you will get some.

Bears played well for ONE QUARTER.

Packers dropped 3 cast iron TDs in the end zone.

Losing the run of yourself there, mate.

I have no reply that wouldn't turn into a flame war so I'll just say nothing.

Realt Dearg Sec · 31-12-2016 12:29pm

Looking good for the number 3 pick right now. So that's nice.

thomond2006 · 01-01-2017 9:53pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Looking good for the number 3 pick right now. So that's nice.

I don't watch college, any idea who they might pick?

Guffy · 02-01-2017 2:50am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't watch college, any idea who they might pick?

Depends if we go QB or not

brinty · 02-01-2017 3:46am

gufc21 wrote:

Depends if we go QB or not

Trubisky as a draftee
Romo for nostalgia if they trade the #3 pick

Realt Dearg Sec · 02-01-2017 8:15am

Romo to the bears won't happen I think, doesn't make sense for them. I hope we can get Garrett or someone like that, use the pick to get a real star for the future of the team. I don't watch enough college to really know about these things tbh, but the fan consensus, which is worth very little, is that the bears wait till the second, or trade back into the end of the first, for a qb.

Realt Dearg Sec · 02-01-2017 8:15am

Romo to the bears won't happen I think, doesn't make sense for them. I hope we can get Garrett or someone like that, use the pick to get a real star for the future of the team. I don't watch enough college to really know about these things tbh, but the fan consensus, which is worth very little, is that the bears wait till the second, or trade back into the end of the first, for a qb.

brinty · 02-01-2017 1:14pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote:

Romo to the bears won't happen I think, doesn't make sense for them. I hope we can get Garrett or someone like that, use the pick to get a real star for the future of the team. I don't watch enough college to really know about these things tbh, but the fan consensus, which is worth very little, is that the bears wait till the second, or trade back into the end of the first, for a qb.

They could trade back a little for a QB but a lot if teams need one. Watson would be the most pro ready but throws a lot of interceptions in busted coverages so a year with a guy like romo would help. Kizer and trubisky are the other options but bogey need more time and work on their all behind games

Badabing · 02-01-2017 11:32pm

Does Jeffrey stay or go??Jay is gone i presume

Guffy · 03-01-2017 9:52am

Jay is probably gone. What's the qb class like? I heard its not the greates but does it get any better in 18?

Alshon, if i were to guess at this stage, is gone. He'll want to much money and simply put, didnt earn it.

Romo is not going to be a bear next year. It will cost to much to get him and pay him. Then again he could lead us for 4/5 years IF he stayed fit.

Guffy · 08-02-2017 11:14pm

So as we approach fa, who leads us to the superbowl Jeffrey has promised us next year? Ive heard chatter of Goropolo being a target. What do you give up for him if anything?

thomond2006 · 09-02-2017 10:42am

gufc21 wrote: »

So as we approach fa, who leads us to the superbowl Jeffrey has promised us next year? Ive heard chatter of Goropolo being a target. What do you give up for him if anything?

By the looks of things the Bears would have to give up their first round pick at least. It would make for a good story as JG grew up in Arlington Heights, a northern suburb of Chicago and played for Eastern Illinois. Ryan Pace also played there.

brinty · 09-02-2017 10:55am

thomond2006 wrote: »

By the looks of things the Bears would have to give up their first round pick at least. It would make for a good story as JG grew up in Arlington Heights, a northern suburb of Chicago and played for Eastern Illinois. Ryan Pace also played there.

It'll be Tony Romo, we've no problem taking a first for him in the Big D..
more win now impact than Jimmy G
Tony went to Eastern Illinois too didn't he..

I jest as I think Tony is going to Denver, Arizona or Houston as he wants to have that chance to win the superbowl

adrian522 · 09-02-2017 11:07am

I don't think either Romo or Jimmy G would cost the 3rd overall pick. A 2nd for Garopolo, not even that for Romo, maybe a 5th or 6th but you'd need to get Romo to re-do his deal.

I'd imagine Romo would want to go to a contender or a potential contender anyway so that would rule him out of Chicago.

Christy42 · 09-02-2017 11:40am

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't think either Romo or Jimmy G would cost the 3rd overall pick. A 2nd for Garopolo, not even that for Romo, maybe a 5th or 6th but you'd need to get Romo to re-do his deal.

I'd imagine Romo would want to go to a contender or a potential contender anyway so that would rule him out of Chicago.

There would be no point in Chicago taking him anyway . He would just need to be replaced and not provide a superbowl or even a play off place in all likelihood.

Jim my G would not cost the 3rd overall pick but he could well command a 1st rounder. Trading back to later in the first round would be the play I would expect if the Bears make a move for him.

adrian522 · 09-02-2017 11:46am

If Garopolo was truly a potential franchise QB there is no way the Patriots would be trading him. The Bears (or anyone else) would be silly to give up a first round pick for him to be honest.

In order to do what you suggest they would need to trade back out of number 3 well before the draft, which would be very difficult to do if they want to get any sort of value.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 09-02-2017 11:47am

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't think either Romo or Jimmy G would cost the 3rd overall pick. A 2nd for Garopolo, not even that for Romo, maybe a 5th or 6th but you'd need to get Romo to re-do his deal.

I'd imagine Romo would want to go to a contender or a potential contender anyway so that would rule him out of Chicago.

I would agree with that on G, I think a 2nd round might be even stretching it. But he's still only a stop gap. If I was Chicago I would trade down and pick up Deshaun Watson. Kid has guts and plenty of talent.

Christy42 · 09-02-2017 12:18pm

adrian522 wrote: »

If Garopolo was truly a potential franchise QB there is no way the Patriots would be trading him. The Bears (or anyone else) would be silly to give up a first round pick for him to be honest.

In order to do what you suggest they would need to trade back out of number 3 well before the draft, which would be very difficult to do if they want to get any sort of value.

There have been some crazy deals for high first round picks recently. Admittedly not 3rd but it is still very possible to get a good trade for the 3rd Round pick. The deal for Jimmy might not be entirely efficient but the price of the 3rd Round should make up for that.

Having said that while I believe Jimmy will go for a first if the Pats trade him I don't think he is worth the first. For the Bears I would be more interested in the rest of the team. Few good qbs going recently or in the next draft really. I would ensure I had the coaching and other players to bring in a new qb first before going after them.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 09-02-2017 12:34pm

Christy42 wrote: »

There have been some crazy deals for high first round picks recently. Admittedly not 3rd but it is still very possible to get a good trade for the 3rd Round pick. The deal for Jimmy might not be entirely efficient but the price of the 3rd Round should make up for that.

Having said that while I believe Jimmy will go for a first if the Pats trade him I don't think he is worth the first. For the Bears I would be more interested in the rest of the team. Few good qbs going recently or in the next draft really. I would ensure I had the coaching and other players to bring in a new qb first before going after them.

I cant see why anyone would give up a first round pick for him.

Agree with you on the bears situation, it's almost in a complete rebuild phase so doesnt make much sense to go for a win now QB like Romo.

Just on Romo, I dont think it's definite he leaves the Cowboys. Given a healthy off season Romo could well start for the Cowboys next year.

brinty · 09-02-2017 1:29pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote:

Just on Romo, I dont think it's definite he leaves the Cowboys. Given a healthy off season Romo could well start for the Cowboys next year.

Absolutely no chance this happens
If it were to call me to pass were ruining the progress of the OROY and Pro bowl selection. Only way Tony starts us as result of an injury

j8wk2feszrnpao · 09-02-2017 9:32pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

I cant see why anyone would give up a first round pick for him.

Have you watched the Browns? :P
They've wasted repeated first round picks. Might as well pick up someone that has at least shown talent when he's started (won @ Cards and was poised to put 50pts on the Fins before getting injured).

Clearly he's not shown enough to be a first round talent. But if you want to win, you need a QB. A move back to the mid-late first round and then trade with the Pats should be examined, cause I think the Browns (given the number of picks they have) would be crazy not to give it a shot with the 12th overall pick (when they could have had Carson Wentz last year).

Spongey1975 · 09-02-2017 10:36pm

You hear that Pace is making a big play to acquire Garopollo. I do reckon it will take a first for whoever wants him but he's nowhere near worth it. The Pats system makes QBs look better than they are (Brady excepted). I remember Cassell guiding the Pats to a 11-5 record the year Brady was lost for the season. He turned out to be a very average QB and i fear Garopollo could be the same.

I'd be more in favour of adding a defensive stud. Really get that front seven being going well and then adding a QB with the early 2nd rounder (maybe even trade back into the first)

j8wk2feszrnpao · 09-02-2017 10:59pm

Spongey1975 wrote: »

I remember Cassell guiding the Pats to a 11-5 record the year Brady was lost for the season. He turned out to be a very average QB and i fear Garopollo could be the same.

He might turn out to be less than average. But all the training reports from guys who watch the team daily, were far more impressed with Garoppolo than Cassell. The thing is, I don't think anyone knows how good/bad he's going to be; but it's very likely one team is going to find out.

Christy42 · 10-02-2017 12:27am

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

I cant see why anyone would give up a first round pick for him.

I don't think they should but I imagine they will. I mean look at how much was traded for Goff and Wentz. Jimmy has at least shown there exists an nfl offense he can run well (I get Wentz has done well but he obviously hadn't when the Eagles traded the house for that pick).

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 10-02-2017 11:23am

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't think they should but I imagine they will. I mean look at how much was traded for Goff and Wentz. Jimmy has at least shown there exists an nfl offense he can run well (I get Wentz has done well but he obviously hadn't when the Eagles traded the house for that pick).

Wentz and Goff are franchise QB's both have the potential to bereally good for their respective clubs.

Does anyone really think Jimmy G is good? And if so why would Bill B and the Patriots be willing to offload him when they have a 40 year old QB?

You are probably right in that the Patriots will want a 1st round pick and maybe the bears will give it up for him.

adrian522 · 10-02-2017 11:28am

I'm always suspicious when I hear I rumour like "Chicago are making a big push for Garopolo". Maybe I've been watching the 49ers FO too long but my first thought is always who put this information out there? Who would benefit from it being out there?

It's almost certainly not anyone in Chicago, more likely to come from the NE side or the players agent as it obviously puts pressure on other teams to make their own push and has the potential to drive up value. To me it doesn't make sense for Chicago at the moment unless they can get a trade done for Cutler this is almost certainly not happening.

Christy42 · 10-02-2017 11:41am

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Wentz and Goff are franchise QB's both have the potential to bereally good for their respective clubs.

Does anyone really think Jimmy G is good? And if so why would Bill B and the Patriots be willing to offload him when they have a 40 year old QB?

You are probably right in that the Patriots will want a 1st round pick and maybe the bears will give it up for him.

Jimmy is good. The careers of Wentz and Goff are still up in the air. Neither was considered an outstanding qb choice- merely the best of a bad qb class. Wentz has shown a bit more after the deal was done. Neither has shown themselves a franchise qb just yet though they have time. Potential is all well and good- it is about what you do that counts. Both still have massive issues with their play.

As for why Bill would sell him. Probably not unless Brissett has ripped it up in training but if he did I reckon he could convince someone to part with a 1st rounder. I don't think it would be a good deal but I think it would happen.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 10-02-2017 12:06pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Jimmy is good. The careers of Wentz and Goff are still up in the air. Neither was considered an outstanding qb choice- merely the best of a bad qb class. Wentz has shown a bit more after the deal was done. Neither has shown themselves a franchise qb just yet though they have time. Potential is all well and good- it is about what you do that counts. Both still have massive issues with their play.

As for why Bill would sell him. Probably not unless Brissett has ripped it up in training but if he did I reckon he could convince someone to part with a 1st rounder. I don't think it would be a good deal but I think it would happen.

If the Bears want to give up a first then I am sure the Patriots will snap their arm off.

Personally I think Wentz looks like a franchise QB. He was great early in the season until injuries hurt the Eagles. For me he looks much better than Jimmy but obviously the lack of game time it's tough to really judge Jimmy.

I guess we'll see.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 10-02-2017 1:06pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Personally I think Wentz looks like a franchise QB. He was great early in the season until injuries hurt the Eagles. For me he looks much better than Jimmy but obviously the lack of game time it's tough to really judge Jimmy.
I guess we'll see.

It's def fair to say he's shown more than Jimmy.
But when you look at some of the 1st round QB picks recently, Bortles/Goff/Lynch/Manziel/EJManuel, then in terms of taking a chance, teams could do worse that Jimmy.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 10-02-2017 1:21pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's def fair to say he's shown more than Jimmy.
But when you look at some of the 1st round QB picks recently, Bortles/Goff/Lynch/Manziel/EJManuel, then in terms of taking a chance, teams could do worse that Jimmy.

To be fair Bortles/Goff and Lynch could all still be decent.

Manziel and Manuel definitely look like busts

j8wk2feszrnpao · 10-02-2017 1:49pm

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

To be fair Bortles/Goff and Lynch could all still be decent.

Manziel and Manuel definitely look like busts

They could be decent; but the point is they cost 1st round picks, and I personally think Jimmy has at least the same chance as they do.

Manziel and Manuel are definite busts.

Spongey1975 · 10-02-2017 3:25pm

Christy42 wrote: »

As for why Bill would sell him. Probably not unless Brissett has ripped it up in training but if he did I reckon he could convince someone to part with a 1st rounder. I don't think it would be a good deal but I think it would happen.

Bill will sell him as he's a FA next year and will sign elsewhere so its now or never for the Pats. They know there are some QB needy teams with a bad draft class coming up and a couple of good games under Jimmys belt. His stock is overvalued and the Pats would be silly not to sell

Christy42 · 10-02-2017 3:41pm

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Bill will sell him as he's a FA next year and will sign elsewhere so its now or never for the Pats. They know there are some QB needy teams with a bad draft class coming up and a couple of good games under Jimmys belt. His stock is overvalued and the Pats would be silly not to sell

Had not realised he was up for FA in a year.

Guffy · 09-03-2017 3:11pm

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/839813184018137088

Mike Glennan? Thoughts? Have to say i have no opinion on this tbh as i have never watched him. He has been highly touted the past couple of years but the buccs still went and got winston.

thomond2006 · 09-03-2017 3:29pm

I'll wait to see the guaranteed money. If the Bears draft a QB and have Glennon as a transition starter for 1-2 years then that sounds like a plan.

Realt Dearg Sec · 09-03-2017 4:03pm

That is what looks like happening alright. 45 million over three years (as you rightly point out we need to see the details) would probably put him as the lowest paid starter in the league who isn't a rookie. I'm assuming they will still draft somebody too. Not sure about Glennon, he was decent a few years ago and he has a 30:15 TD:INT ratio, I won't be getting overly excited but it at least looks like pace is following a plan.

Speaking of which he also looks to have played the Jeffrey situation really well. Having tested the market Jeffrey may now be willing to take a smaller deal than he was initially hoping for. Good news for whoever is our qb.

thomond2006 · 09-03-2017 5:30pm

On Glennon, Adam Schefter is reporting 3 years $45m with $19m guaranteed. So I'm guessing only a reasonable cap penalty if the Bears cut him after next season, fair enough!

I imagine the 4 game PED ban on Jeffery's record is scaring away teams from offering big guaranteed money. I think I'm right in saying a second PED ban would mean at least a 10 game ban?

How Bout Dem Bears?

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