Regional Airports

Neworder79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The single biggest reason for a 50% YoY decline is the number of motorway completions since November 2009 inc M6 ( Dec 2009) M8 ( May 2010) M3 ( May 2010) and the M7 last month.

Other factors account for the balance, recession, weather ( in Nov 2010) , cost cutting, businesses shutting, tourism declines , Aer Arann examinership, etc.

Aer Arann aircraft/staffing problems can't have helped, endless flight cancellations over the winter even on clear days.

Do passenger figures count booked seats or actual numbers travelled?

fricatus

nerobi10 wrote: »

I am going home in June and my hometown has a decent airport but Yahoo! Travel has NO flights for it. Is there anywhere online to book flights for small regional airports.

I doubt flights to Sligo, Galway, etc. would be on Yahoo travel, TBH. Aer Arann maybe? Where are you trying to get to?

Neworder79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ireland West Knock should not be allowed to collect their hidden headage tax any more. Departing passengers are charged €10 to go airside.

I posted in another thread that Knock didn't need any OPEX subsidy for some years before the downturn due to it's ability to self fund. If they dump the fee the Government would end up subsidising the shortfall and they get criticised for dependence on the taxpayer.

In that context the departure fee is transparent. Aer Arann, Aer Lingus, FlyBE and BMI have a notice on their booking pages about the fee, Ryanair it seems refuse to show it.

Knock should do more to highlight what the fee is spent on. For example the airport provided €14 of €26 invested in infrastructure since 2007 such as the new terminal, landing system and runway upgrades.

n.catenthusiast

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ireland West Knock should not be allowed to collect their hidden headage tax any more. Departing passengers are charged €10 to go airside.

My understanding of the situation in Knock is that instead of charging the airline for passenger use of the terminal (which is passed onto pax) like most airports, Knock charge the passenger directly.

Not sure why this might be but the irony is that you're getting aggravated by the charge precisely because it's not hidden...

Richard

serfboard wrote: »

Belfast (does it need two airports? - close the city one).

Why? It's not costing you a penny.

I'm not sure about the airports in the Republic, but the Belfast airports are privately owned and Derry is owned by the city council.

Now Derry does get some funding from the Irish government because of it's proximity to Donegal, but the Belfast airports are nothing to do with the financial situation in the South.

I got stung for the departure tax on a London-Knock-London trip.

I didn't know about it in advance and didn't have many Euro on me so I didn't spend anything in the coffee shop and made do till I got to the other side.

It is the only time I have encountered a fee not included in the ticket price.
I haven't been back to or considered Knock since - Dublin or Shannon only.

veryangryman

You should really travel to Newquay in England or any number of small regional airports in Europe that serve a big area but small population so they charge this

You got "stung"... please...

I for one am delighted that the people of Mayo/Roscommon/Sligo have a decent airport and even more delighted that it is paid for by the people that use it and not the taxpayer who doesnt.

Would happily pay a similar charge for an airport local to the midlands that has such a variety of routes.

invinciblePRSTV

veryangryman wrote: »

I for one am delighted that the people of Mayo/Roscommon/Sligo have a decent airport and even more delighted that it is paid for by the people that use it and not the taxpayer who doesnt.

Er the taxpayer who doesn't use it picks up the tab for the PSO flights that service the place and of course the construction of the airport originally and grants awarded as recently as last year!.

veryangryman wrote: »

Would happily pay a similar charge for an airport local to the midlands that has such a variety of routes.

Drive to Dublin Airport, it'll have a far larger variety of routes then Offaly X could ever have.

Tech3

There is too many regional airports in this country. Some will probably survive given the poor transport links to Dublin such as Kerry and Donegal. Others like Sligo and Galway may not last much longer. Certainly Galway airport when you can travel to Dublin under 2 hours and Shannon airport under an hour.

I would be more in favour of ditching Galway and somehow getting more flights in and out of Shannon. At the moment it's a utter disgrace seeing how underused that airport is. The new government really need to abolish the travel tax immediately and give Ryanair some sort of incentive to bring some of its flights back to Shannon.

serfboard

veryangryman wrote: »

I for one am delighted that the people of Mayo/Roscommon/Sligo have a decent airport and even more delighted that it is paid for by the people that use it and not the taxpayer who doesnt.

Would happily pay a similar charge for an airport local to the midlands that has such a variety of routes.

Regular fliers out of Knock know that they have to pay the charge and AFAIK, they don't mind doing so, in order to keep the airport going. Galway used to have a similar charge at one stage.

tech2 wrote: »

I would be more in favour of ditching Galway and somehow getting more flights in and out of Shannon. At the moment it's a utter disgrace seeing how underused that airport is.

I agree. Every time I travel through Shannon I think the same. It's woefully underused, compared to its capacity.

tech2 wrote: »

The new government really need to abolish the travel tax immediately and give Ryanair some sort of incentive to bring some of its flights back to Shannon.

I wouldn't give those f**kers in Ryanair any incentive. However, I do think that the reduction to €3 in the travel tax was a mistake. Abolish it and call O'Leary's bluff. If he doesn't increase the numbers like he says he would be able to, then re-instate it if required.

veryangryman

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Drive to Dublin Airport, it'll have a far larger variety of routes then Offaly X could ever have.

Not if my flight is covered locally thank you. Just because Dublin has 100 more routes than my local airport dont mean ill go to it just for the sake of variety. If local airport flies to my destination, ill use it

cson

Absolute lol at the people calling for Shannon to be closed. Put it in private hands and watch is all I'll say.

cson

veryangryman wrote: »

Not if my flight is covered locally thank you. Just because Dublin has 100 more routes than my local airport dont mean ill go to it just for the sake of variety. If local airport flies to my destination, ill use it

Is 90ish minutes from Athlone to Dublin really killing you that much?

ongarboy

veryangryman wrote: »

Not if my flight is covered locally thank you. Just because Dublin has 100 more routes than my local airport dont mean ill go to it just for the sake of variety. If local airport flies to my destination, ill use it

I'd be interested to hear your cost benefit analysis and revenue/profit projections for the justification of Offaly International Airport. I don't think just because you and the population of Offaly/Westmeath etc will use it will make it profitable. Midland counties have some of the lowest populations in the country, do not have any urban area with a pop of over 20000 according to the 2006 census and are not premier tourist destinations in comparison to the coastal counties. They are 90 minutes or less from Dublin airport via motorway so the peripheral argument (which helps justifies Kerry/Donegal/Knock etc) is not relevant here. 90 minutes or less drive from an international airport (Dublin) would be defined as a "local" airport anywhere internationally. Gorey, Athy and Cavan are also approx 90 minutes drive from Dublin airport - should they also get airports so that their citizens don't have to drive more than an hour to fly away??

cson

+1 to the above in terms of within 90mins being a local airport. They ain't exactly Bus Stops were talking about.

Neworder79

ongarboy wrote: »

Gorey, Athy and Cavan are also approx 90 minutes drive from Dublin airport - should they also get airports so that their citizens don't have to drive more than an hour to fly away??

As you mention Gorey, a group were looking into Arklow International Airport a few months back. Looking for Government money of course so probably never going to happen given country is broke and recent Government policy change against supporting small loss making airports.

Neworder79

Government have backed down on plans to end operational subsidy to Galway airport. PSO support will still end in July but Cabinet meeting yesterday rejected the recommendations of the report into the "Value for money review of regional airports" with regard to Glaways viability. The airport will now seek €2.3m per year OPEX subsidy to compensate for the loss of PSO.

It was never going to happen in an election month, Éamon Ó Cuív can now claim he saved the airport in all the local papers.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/17414-cabinet-rejects-recommendation-chop-galway-airport-funding

Still not clear on Sligo, but hard to see how they could continue operational subsidy to an airport with no routes once PSO ends.

dubhthach

Indeed, awh well Galway airport is in the wrong place, if had been built on the ex RAF base site in Oranmore (army shooting range) it could at least have had the potential for runways long enough for a 737. Once the M18 is finished perhaps Ryanair will rename Shannon as "Galway south"

Sponge Bob

I am disinclined to support Galway Airport in any way from now on. I am vehemently opposed to supporting it once the M17/M18 scheme is complete ....at which point there will be a Motorway to Shannon and another half way to Knock.

Galway people should support their airport of course, that airport being Shannon.

If they really are going to drag out the Opex supports for another few years they should only do so on the strict condition that all Opex supports end when that Motorway is built.

Personally I think they are only playing silly buggers, kicking the decision back to FG/Labour and daring them to abolish the Opex support so that FF and Grealish can play politics at 'saving' the damn thing again.

Personally I would pay €230k to GoBus to simply stop their express airport buses at Carnmore instead of paying €2.3m per annum supporting an airport that has no future because it will never land a 737 or a 320.

Neworder79

Personally I think they are only playing silly buggers, kicking the decision back to FG/Labour and daring them to abolish the Opex support so that FF and Grealish can play politics at 'saving' the damn thing again.

+1

When the election circus comes to an end the new Government have a very scary funding reality to deal with, and all spending will be back on the table. But airport funding has long been Fianna Fails golden carrot.

Aer Aranns decision to switch flights from London Luton to Southend Airport from March may not help the case for the airport either.

ongarboy

Neworder79 wrote: »

It was never going to happen in an election month, Éamon Ó Cuív can now claim he saved the airport in all the local papers.

South Kerry TD John O'Donoghue put out a full page ad in the Kerryman newspaper last week with a big banner claiming " He saved Kerry Airport". The ad didn't elaborate on this one liner and I guess he expected readers and constituents to be too dumb to actually question the context or validity of that statement.

I, for one am really perplexed as as far as I understood, Ryanair which have 4/5 successful routes operating from the airport have not signalled any intentions to pull out. There was a reduction in the number of services from Kerry to Dublin (3 daily to 1 daily) but all other services are unaffected. What did he actually save and could he not have the decency and respect for readers/constituents to articulate and back up this pathetic vote grabbing statement??

Neworder79

Either he means he interfered to steer the findings of the report, or he influenced cabinet to reject them and keep PSO subvention at Kerry.

Either way he's bluffing. Kerry had the least need for PSO of all given the highest domestic passenger numbers in the country and an operator already on the route now commercial without PSO.

It's also the only profitable airport in the country so shouldn't need subvention to be "saved".

1huge1

dubhthach wrote: »

Indeed, awh well Galway airport is in the wrong place, if had been built on the ex RAF base site in Oranmore (army shooting range) it could at least have had the potential for runways long enough for a 737. Once the M18 is finished perhaps Ryanair will rename Shannon as "Galway south"

Don't think that would go down to well in Limerick

dubhthach

1huge1 wrote: »

Don't think that would go down to well in Limerick

Perhaps we should call it "Ireland Mid-wesht" that way you keep everyone happy

Tech3

On the discussion on regional airports during the leaders debate: FG will not commit to bringing back PSO's to regional airports, Labour would bring back all the PSO's.

antoobrien

Arguments for the continued existence of galway airport, taken from an article the Connacht Sentinel a few weeks back (18/1, sorry no link)

Mr Coyle (CEO Galway Chamber) said Galway Chamber and Galway Airport will firstly be making the case for the continuation of the existing €1.3 million perational subvention from Government; and will also be seeking an increase in the amount paid under the subvention in order to secure the airport’s survival. An urgent meeting is being sought with the Minister as soon as possible, he said.

Galway Airport is likely to tell the Minister that the tourism impact of the airport on the region is estimated at €19m. It will also stress that Galway Airport provides critical air access to international markets; independent economic analysis has estimated that the airport directly contributes €31 million annually to the region with the indirect impact associated with maintaining access to international markets being far greater; and direct employment associated with the airport in 2010 was 175 full time equivalent personnel, contributing in excess of €2 million in PAYE and
PRSI to the Exchequer.

Michael Corless, Chairman of Galway Airport, said “the necessity for the continued existence of Galway Airport has not been fully understood or taken into account” in the report, which is “out of date and contradicts the clear messages of support obtained from the development agencies, Industrial Development Agency, Enterprise Ireland and Údarás”.

Carmel Brennan, President of Galway Chamber said Galway Airport is a business airport and “its existence and survival is critical for the future of the region as it makes an important contribution to supporting and creating jobs in Galway”

That last point to is critical - Galway is not a tourist airport. My family used run a B&B near the airport, the vast majority of the people staying that were using the airport were business people. Business people don't go on 2 1/2 hour bus rides after traveling for several hours to get into the country (most flights seem to go to Dublin).

Godge

dubhthach wrote: »

Indeed, awh well Galway airport is in the wrong place, if had been built on the ex RAF base site in Oranmore (army shooting range) it could at least have had the potential for runways long enough for a 737. Once the M18 is finished perhaps Ryanair will rename Shannon as "Galway south"

If the Shannon tunnel at Limerick had been built north of the city at Annacotty or Kilcoole, Ryanair would probably have renamed Shannon as Dublin West Airport.:)

galwayrush

Godge wrote: »

If the Shannon tunnel at Limerick had been built north of the city at Annacotty or Kilcoole, Ryanair would probably have renamed Shannon as Dublin West Airport.:)

They probably do in other countries..:D

dubhthach

Godge wrote: »

If the Shannon tunnel at Limerick had been built north of the city at Annacotty or Kilcoole, Ryanair would probably have renamed Shannon as Dublin West Airport.:)

Well Knock is about the same distance from Dublin as "Frankfurt Hahn" is from Frankfurt, so it can be "Dublin Wesht" and Shannon can be "Dublin Mid-Wesht"

oharach

antoobrien wrote: »

Arguments for the continued existence of galway airport, taken from an article the Connacht Sentinel a few weeks back

The figures given for the financial impact of the airport on the region are entirely irrelevant on their own. The really important statistic is how much this would change if the airport closed.

If Galway Airport closed its doors, most of the passengers would still come via other airports (Shannon, Dublin, possibly Knock). There would be some negative impact, but it's a farce to say that the entire contribution to the local economy would be lost.

antoobrien wrote: »

That last point to is critical - Galway is not a tourist airport. My family used run a B&B near the airport, the vast majority of the people staying that were using the airport were business people. Business people don't go on 2 1/2 hour bus rides after traveling for several hours to get into the country (most flights seem to go to Dublin).

I have yet to hear someone on this forum advocate the closure of Shannon. Considering the relatively small size of its catchment, Shannon has great international connectivity, and is maybe an hour and half away from Galway by bus – and even less for business people, who will either have their own cars or hire one.