Regional Airports

RobitTV

MYOB wrote: »

Do you accept the need for Donegal Airport, then?

Well Apart from the Aer Arann flights,

Does it offer any other air services? flight training etc..etc..?

L1011

General aviation, quite a lot of copters for oil installations, occasional flight training and air crash training, in the 90s there were a lot of football charters but the Glasgow route likely serves that now.

Stinicker

MYOB wrote: »

General aviation, quite a lot of copters for oil installations, occasional flight training and air crash training, in the 90s there were a lot of football charters but the Glasgow route likely serves that now.

Soccer charters to Glasgow or GAA charters to Dublin when Donegal were going good in the early 90's.

Has it any role in Search & Rescue, eg. Rescue Helicopters refuelling for long range search missions into the North Atlantic?

RobitTV

MYOB wrote: »

General aviation, quite a lot of copters for oil installations, occasional flight training and air crash training, in the 90s there were a lot of football charters but the Glasgow route likely serves that now.

That would be quite handy for Helicopters going out to Oil rigs in the North Atlantic.

If Donegal airport offered a official Helicopter fulling for helicopters going to oil rigs, i believe they could make a good business out of it.

L1011

Stinicker wrote: »

Soccer charters to Glasgow or GAA charters to Dublin when Donegal were going good in the early 90's.

Has it any role in Search & Rescue, eg. Rescue Helicopters refuelling for long range search missions into the North Atlantic?

Glasgow but I wouldn't have been surprised about specials down in '92.

Finner Camp isn't particularly far by air so I think its generally used instead.

RobitTV wrote: »

That would be quite handy for Helicopters going out to Oil rigs in the North Atlantic.

If Donegal airport offered a official Helicopter fulling for helicopters going to oil rigs, i believe they could make a good business out of it.

They do, and they do...

iclickr

just seen this on twitter leo varadkar tweet is

(Never liked Galway, Sligo or Waterford anyway, culchies can get the bus to Dublin airport, more money for the capital!)

is this guy for real?

Judgement Day

iclickr wrote: »

just seen this on twitter leo varadkar tweet is

(Never liked Galway, Sligo or Waterford anyway, culchies can get the bus to Dublin airport, more money for the capital!)

is this guy for real?

Are you? :rolleyes:

veryangryman

Leo may be arrogant, but he's no fool, and certainly not stupid enough to say that

Fraping of the highest order

RobitTV

MYOB wrote: »

Glasgow but I wouldn't have been surprised about specials down in '92.

Finner Camp isn't particularly far by air so I think its generally used instead.




They do, and they do...

Ok cool, but donegal is still at risk, same with sligo and waterford

RobitTV

iclickr wrote: »

just seen this on twitter leo varadkar tweet is

(Never liked Galway, Sligo or Waterford anyway, culchies can get the bus to Dublin airport, more money for the capital!)

is this guy for real?

Pfft Culchies??

Waterford City a Urban city is not a "Culchie village as you may think of it":rolleyes:

iclickr

check out his twitter its not the worst thing he's said
and if its not him i stand corrected

Neworder79

It's not him it's a fake twitter account, like fake Enda and fake Biffo, juist read the other comedy posts.

donkey balls

RobitTV wrote: »

out of the 3 airports - the most important one is Waterford

it caters for nearly 630 jobs, and its the only way of driving foward the south-eastern economy.

Waterford is very important compared to sligo and galway, Waterford is Probably the only Regional airport, that makes a good enough profit, not a great profit, but good enough/ok

Without a Airport in the south-east!

What about the Coastguard helicopter?, it will be drafted of to somewhere else, Meaning longer response times, putting mins of peoples lifes at risk.

No More pilot training course, Waterford is the best in europe, Waterford send's 100% well trained pilots off to begin their career, without that, less opportunitys for future pilots, This will mean people who want to train to be a pilot, might have to go off somewhere else in europe.

If it closes, it will be left their to die a hard death, The runaway will be left their for decades, because there will be no money to do anything on the site, It will be deserted like Chernobyl, only for Aircraft spotters, to hear nothing.

Are you for real with PTC being the best in europe dont beleive the morketing:rolleyes: as for the SAR service based at waterford where else could they move it to the goes for Sligo.

Sponge Bob

There is even less justification for subsidising Waterford than Galway and my views on Galway are well known

Bards

interesting report from which the minister is basing his decision on

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/12921-2010_06_04_VFM_REPORT_REG_AIRPORTS_FINAL-1.DOC

Recommendations

• Exchequer support for regional airports in Connaught should be focused on Knock Airport, which can adequately serve both Galway and Sligo with a greater range of services than offered by Galway or Sligo Airports. This focus on Knock should also increase Knock’s “critical mass” and enhance its finances. Galway city will also have the benefit of improving journey times to Shannon Airport.
• The Donegal-Dublin PSO service should be retained and the PSO services from Dublin to Kerry, Galway, Sligo, Knock and Derry should be ended. Donegal is relatively remote in Irish terms. The cost per passenger of subsidising PSO services is difficult to justify at the other airports having regard to improved public transport and/or road journey times to Dublin. A commercial service from Dublin to Kerry may be feasible because of latent demand for the current service (100,000 passengers per annum).
• Continuing OPEX support at Donegal, Knock, Kerry and Waterford should be provided subject to stringent assessment of annual requests for subvention and encouragement of greater efficiency through the use of benchmarking/ performance indicators.
• Opex support for Galway and Sligo should end.
• Capex grants would be confined to essential safety and security work and would be of the order of €10m in the next few years.

The recommended retention of Opex support for Waterford is a finely balanced one. It reflects a view that the Airport could contribute to developing tourism in the South East and recognises that it is the only provincial city that would have a 2-hour surface journey time to a State Airport (Cork and Dublin Airport will be about 2 hours away). All of the other provincial cities will have an hour’s journey time or less.

veryangryman

Bards wrote: »

interesting report from which the minister is basing his decision on

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/12921-2010_06_04_VFM_REPORT_REG_AIRPORTS_FINAL-1.DOC

Recommendations

• Exchequer support for regional airports in Connaught should be focused on Knock Airport, which can adequately serve both Galway and Sligo with a greater range of services than offered by Galway or Sligo Airports. This focus on Knock should also increase Knock’s “critical mass” and enhance its finances.

IF and only IF the M18 gets built to Tuam

Im glad that Leo is saying the above as he now has no excuse not to push the M18 north of Oranmore

serfboard

Seems Galway is fighting desperately to extract money from the government. I have highlighted some bits. The link is here.

Galway Independent wrote:

Wait continues for Airport decision
Written by Marie Madden
Wednesday, 01 June 2011

Management at Galway Airport remain on tenterhooks today, as they face into another week of waiting for a decision on the facility’s future. ... [This] follows a meeting between Transport Minister Leo Varadkar with airport management, Galway Chamber and numerous local elected representatives late last week. At the meeting, management presented a streamlined business plan for the future of the airport, which would reduce the amount needed in operation funding from the Government from €1.7 million to €1.25 million.

The airport vowed to cut running costs, increase the number of routes operating and double the traffic passing through the facility by 2014. Management argued that, by meeting the targets set out in the business plan, it would eliminate the need for Government support in three years, making the airport a viable financial prospect.

Fine Gael Deputy Brian Walsh told the Galway Independent yesterday that pressure was now being put on Minister Varadkar to provide a lifeline of a year’s funding to the airport.

“They are going to have to meet very challenging targets if they are going to achieve the goals set in the business plan, so what we are hoping is that the Department will support the airport for this year and then review how the airport’s management have performed in terms of implementing the cost-cutting measure and attracting new airline to new routes,” he explained.

While Minister Varadkar was said to be sceptical about the targets on first inspection, reportedly saying that the business plan “wasn’t credible”, he committed to going through the document in further detail.

“There was a frank exchange of views between ourselves, the airport management and [Minister] Varadkar and his officials and he did commit to go away and look at other areas within his own department heads budget to see if money could be moved around. So, it’s in that context that he will discuss the issue with the Cabinet,” said Mr Walsh.

It is now expected that a full discussion on the issue of funding for Galway Airport will go before the Cabinet next Tuesday, with a decision made shortly after. Speaking yesterday afternoon, Managing Director Joe Walsh urged the Department to think about the future of Galway rather than current budgetary constraints when making the decision, and appealed for a definitive statement on airport funding as soon as possible.

“You have to remain optimistic in that the right decision will be taken to support jobs in the region, not just the jobs in the airport itself but also business, industry and tourism. They are having difficulty with the budget because there are insufficient funds for operational subvention for regional airports, but, as was pointed out to the Minister and has happened previously in all departments, budgets can be manipulated to get the right results. It’s about prioritising projects. We are a priority and we need to be prioritised. That was the very strong message that was given at last week’s meeting,” he said.

Mr Walsh said the airport did not support an approach that would make it more difficult to get to Galway, or make it less attractive for inbound tourists who choose to come to Galway through Galway Airport.

So, summarising the bolded bits:

1. So they can now do with half a million less?

2. They only want support for three years ... hmmmmm. And what happens then?

3. "We are hoping that the Department will support the airport for this year and then review" ... which will buy the local TD more time. He'll say the same thing next year.

4. "A frank exchange of views" ... code for effin and blindin, and shkin and hair flyin'.

5. MD Joe Walsh urged the Department to think about the future of Galway ... so Galway is finished without the airport? Don't think so, pal.

6. "We are a priority" ... so is everywhere else mate. You're not a priority if the department don't think so.

Neworder79

serfboard wrote: »

Seems Galway is fighting desperately to extract money from the government...

1. So they can now do with half a million less?

€1.8m less. A few months back they were looking for almost €3m demanding compensation for loss of PSO. Amazing turnaround after rubbishing the the value reports findings on excessive costs.

2. They only want support for three years ... hmmmmm. And what happens then?

With Aer Arann making noises about moving elsewhere and our economy still heading south it's not clear how they propose to suddenly grow rapidly and become profitable, the airport lost money all through the boom years. Airlines haven't exactly been lining up unless you class MANX as an airline.

3. "We are hoping that the Department will support the airport for this year and then review" ... which will buy the local TD more time. He'll say the same thing next year.

Yup. When the IMF put a red line through the whole regional airport program.

4. "A frank exchange of views" ... code for effin and blindin, and shkin and hair flyin'.

Maybe resorting to insults over the air isn't the best way to win support of the "arrogant", "anti-west", "Dublin minister".

5. MD Joe Walsh urged the Department to think about the future of Galway ... so Galway is finished without the airport? Don't think so, pal.

Any company listening to the the level of dooms day rhetoric coming from local TDs would think they were in Fukushima territory.

6. "We are a priority" ... so is everywhere else mate. You're not a priority if the department don't think so.

I think HSE Wests €100m defecit might just edge it out...

Neworder79

Government to provide funding for regionals until the end of the year:

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport Leo Varadkar has today (Tuesday) announced additional funding for regional airports for this year, and said financial support will continue to be available until the end of the year.

Minister Varadkar also confirmed that from next year, the Government will only be in a position to support the four regional airports at Donegal, Knock Ireland West, Kerry and Waterford. The Government will not be able to provide operational or capital funding to Galway or Sligo airports.

The Government decided today to provide €5.9 million in additional funding to regional airports for 2011, and to continue financial support until the end of the year, reversing a decision by the last Government. This €5.9 million comes on top of the €13.4 million already allocated to regional airports for this year by the last government.

The Minister urged Galway and Sligo airports to use the opportunity provided by the additional funding to engage with various parties, including business interests, investors and local authorities, in order to secure their ongoing viability in some form.

Minister Varadkar explained: “When I took office, I discovered that the last Government had left us with just €600,000 for operational funding at all six regional airports. This was in spite of a disingenuous election pledge from Fianna Fáil to fund all of the airports for the whole of 2011, without allocating the necessary funding.

“The Government has now reversed that decision and is providing funding for all six regional airports, for operational purposes, for the whole of 2011. All the regional airports must use this period to prepare realistic business plans for the future, as funding cannot be maintained at current levels.

“The right thing to do is support the most viable airports, where there is also a clear geographical need for their services. Otherwise there won’t be enough funding to support any of the airports in a meaningful way. As a result, the Government has decided that operational and capital funding will only be provided to four of the six regional airports from next year: Donegal, Knock Ireland West, Kerry and Waterford.”

The Minister said this decision is necessary to make best use of scarce Exchequer resources, and to ensure the efficient use of taxpayers’ money. The aim is to ensure that Ireland has a sufficient network of regional airports, while taking into account significant improvements in road networks, shorter journey times by road and rail, and the collapse in passengers flying domestically.

http://transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=344

serfboard

RTE wrote:

Galway Airport's Managing Director has claimed there is a real risk of the facility closing down because of a decision to end State funding from next year.

Managing Director Joe Walsh also accused the Government of 'a lack of joined-up thinking' in dealing with the regional airline industry.

Sligo Airport is also to lose its State subvention from next year, but its Managing Director Joe Corcoran said he was confident it would survive.

There is to be no additional operating or capital funding for Galway or Sligo airports from 2012, so both must find new ways of meeting operational costs.

Galway Airport had sought a subsidy of €1.2m to help it meet its operational and capital costs in 2012.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar decided to provide almost €6m in additional State funding this year to six regional airports, including Galway and Sligo.

Speaking on Morning Ireland, Mr Varadkar said the Government decision was based on consolidating the strengths of Donegal, Knock, Kerry and Waterford.

Fianna Fáil TD for Galway West Éamon Ó Cuív urged the Minister to reverse 'the short-sighted decision', arguing that air access was vital to the tourist and business sectors in the West.

The airport in Galway has a staff of 62 people and 110,000 passengers annually.

In a statement, management at Sligo Airport said significant challenges lie ahead and no stone will be left unturned to ensure the airport continues to operate in the future.

The link is here.

I find it interesting the approach being taken by Galway and Sligo. As LV said this morning, Sligo will have no services after July. So I think they have accepted that the game is up. Not since the ancien regime have people thought that we should fund an airport that has no flights!

Galway, by contrast, instead of biting the bullet and getting on with it, indulges in a mighty whinge-fest and tries to use the airwaves to pressurise the Minister into changing his opinion. But you could tell from his tone this morning that he's not for changing. Not only that, but he said that this is minor compared to the other cutbacks he's going to have to make.

Most sickening of all was this bullsh1t

Eamon O'Cuiv wrote:

Fianna Fáil TD for Galway West Éamon Ó Cuív urged the Minister to reverse 'the short-sighted decision', arguing that air access was vital to the tourist and business sectors in the West.

If you hadn't been throwing around money we didn't have like snuff at a wake Eamon, Galway wouldn't have been under the mis-apprehension that they would never have to make a profit. And yes, I agree Air Access is important. That's why its being provided by Knock and Shannon. And just ask the non-subsidised Citylink and GoBus how they're managing to make money providing 40+ services to Dublin airport daily, if all us poor Gobsheens in the Wesht only want to fly from our local airport.

mayfly1

Hi all, from reading the threads, I'm confused, could someone clarify if the real level of subvention needed to keep this airport open is actually well north €3m per year, given that €1.7m subvention is being asked for the remaining 5 months of 2011 alone....and I guess this is what the minister is concened about. When the pso's go, then rough cuts pax numbers will drop to say 80,000 in 2012, or 40,000 outbound or €400k income from the new fee, add say another €600k income from other sources would result in a self generated income of c. €1m to run the airport, which employs over 60 people and has overheads to cover etc, and loans ro repay...this is what's really at the root of the issue...

serfboard

RTE wrote:

Galway Airport to make funding appeal

The Government will today be urged to reconsider its decision to cut off all State funding to Galway Airport from the end of the year.

Management at the airport says the move is 'ill-conceived' and is threatening its survival.

Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has told the board it must find new sources of funding, if the airport is to have a future.

Galway Airport needs a cash injection of €1.2m next year to stay in business. Minister Varadkar has made it clear that the airport will not be getting it from the Government.

Mr Varadkar says the airport must find new backers and investors and 'explore its ongoing viability with them'.

The Galway Airport Board was to meet this morning to consider the financial crisis it now faces.

General Manager Joe Walsh says the Government's 'unexpected and ill-advised' decision to axe its subsidies is threatening the airport's future and there is now a very real risk that it could be forced to close.

The Government is to continue funding the airport's operating costs until 31 December.

Airport management says the six-month period it has been given to find new investors is an unrealistic timeline and must be extended.

Jesus, I'm amazed that despite the fact that this country is being run by the IMF, some people don't even think that there's a recession on.

Neworder79

Airport have have made an about turn today. This morning the manager was on TV and Radio begging Government for a rethink saying the airport will close without subsidy.

But this afternoon they have turned attention to their "main shareholder" and are now releasing statements stating...

The Board of Galway Airport and its majority Shareholder, Galway Chamber confirm the airport is here to stay! ... The Board and Galway Chamber confirm that they will engage with alternative investors, businesses and local authorities to secure investment in the airport

presumably to keep bookings up.

serfboard

Neworder79 wrote: »

Airport have have made an about turn today. This morning the manager was on TV and Radio begging Government for a rethink saying the airport will close without subsidy.

But this afternoon they have turned attention to their "main shareholder" ...
presumably to keep bookings up.

A good analysis. Once you start going on the media spinning that it's going to close, people then automatically assume it is closing, won't be sure when, and won't book just in case. Then you have to start spinning madly the other way :rolleyes:

dowlingm

Maybe BE should be leaned on to divert the 51X via Shannon which would pull some of the catchment that way.

serfboard

dowlingm wrote: »

Maybe BE should be leaned on to divert the 51X via Shannon which would pull some of the catchment that way.

Possibly. I know Citylink used to do a Shannon service but stopped it, and then GoBus started one, but since it wasn't licensed, they stopped it again.

I think an express to Shannon would need to be carrot and stick. What's the point of running an express to Shannon if no-one uses it. And no-one uses it because there's not enough flights out of Shannon (for Galwegians. Ennis and Limerick people use the existing BE service).

The last time I flew into Shannon I was waiting for the bus to Galway and it'd make you weep to see how under-used this resource is. A massive airport, and, the time I was there (admittedly a Sunday evening) hardly anyone in it. It has to whore itself out to the yankees to keep itself going.

In the meantime, we're spending citizen's money on Galway - less than an hour up the road.

veryangryman

Sligo gone now as of todays news. Great timing. Along with Roscommon A&E closing and 8 new tolls, what better excuse to slap up taxes in the budget.

Yes im aware of the why of all this but it really is a kick in the balls to the working/driving man.

Neworder79

what better excuse to slap up taxes in the budget.

The timing was set by Dempsey when he cut funding in January from the end of the current contract.

Approx €20,000000 of your taxes over the last 5 years went to subasidise a handful of people flying from Sligo to Dublin twice a day, money which could be spent improving hospitals or other transport services now being cut. That should make you a very angry man.