UL Medicine

johnjoebreen

Quick question,

How hard is it to get into Postgrad Medicine at UL.

Anyone have an idea of the ratio of applicants to places?

Thanks

ORLY?

johnjoebreen wrote: »

Quick question,

How hard is it to get into Postgrad Medicine at UL.

Anyone have an idea of the ratio of applicants to places?

Thanks

It's not really possible to say because there is no direct application to any of the universities. It's all done through CAO in the exact same way that regular undergrad degrees are.

It hasn't been that hard to get into graduate medicine, relatively speaking I suppose. I think for the last few years if you were in about the top 20-25% of GAMSAT sitters you would have gotten in (assuming you have at least a 2.1 in your first degree, and I mean first and only first.)

That probably would have gotten you into at least UL which has about 70 places now I think for EU students. Cork and UCD I think have had the next highest cut-offs for about 35 and 55 places, then RCSI for about 35 places. These numbers have been changing quite a bit so excuse me if I'm out of date.

Now, I think in the next couple of years the GAMSAT cut-off will increase for all of them. In spite of an increase in places this year there was no decline in the scores. I doubt there will be another increase in places in the near future and demand will continue to rise. So, in short, it's going to get tougher I think.

Choco99

I'm in final year in grad med in UL now. We were the 1st year starting in the med school and the GAMSAT point requirements have gone down each year since then. This is because the number of places in the school have increased from 32 in the 1st year starting the school to what's meant to be 120 now. The number of applicants didn't increase that much though, so the GAMSAT scores needed to get in dropped to mid-to-early 50s.
If I were you I'd apply to UL this year before the GAMSAT scores start rising a bit more.

Amanda1981

hi choco 99

do u have any gamsat reading materials for sale. im due to take the test in march.

thanks

Choco99

No sorry, I don't have any old GAMSAT papers! You can buy them from the official GAMSAT website (http://www.gamsat.acer.edu.au/ ) if no-one has any. They cost about €25-30ish per booklet thing. Annoyingly uncheap.

spagboll

Yeah get in to gradmed asap imo, there was a bit of a points explosion this year, RCSI from 60 to 63, UCD staying 60 despite 35 new places, limerick had the most new places i think and went down 1 point only and on top of this some people are entering science and allied health courses now with the ambition to get into gradmed...biomed in ucc/cit saw a large point increase this year as did other similar courses. UCD gradmed was 56 in 2007 (i think) i'd be shocked if it ever dropped below 60 again

When Limerick finishes its new med building and is churning out graduates (1-2 years time) it will join the rest of the pack in the 60+ region imo

del85

Hi Spagboll,


I scored a 60 this year and hope to apply for Limerick 2011 entry. Do you reckon I would be safe with this score?

bubbleking

del85 wrote: »

Hi Spagboll,


I scored a 60 this year and hope to apply for Limerick 2011 entry. Do you reckon I would be safe with this score?

well I got a 59 so fingers crossed I got in too

It went to 56 last year so please God there isnt a massive jump this year

del85

I'm terrified of there being some massive jump in points due to the inevitable rise in applicants year on year. Hopefully Limerick will stay in the 50's for another little while at least though

bubbleking

del85 wrote: »

I'm terrified of there being some massive jump in points due to the inevitable rise in applicants year on year. Hopefully Limerick will stay in the 50's for another little while at least though

yeah Im pretty nervous of that happening too. but it should be ok for next year - wouldnt like to be leaving it any longer though

spagboll

yeah i think 60 should be safe for UL if places stay the same

vasco378

Hi Spagboll, am keen to apply to Limerick university to start on the grad med course for September 2011 entry.

I just sat the GAMSAT and got an overall score of 59. I also have a 2:1 honours degree from the UK. Based on the messages in this thread, this may just be enough for Limerick University.

Would you advise me to re-sit the GAMSAT in March 2011 just to be extra safe? (obviously, I would prefer not to).

Does Limerick or any of the other Irish grad medicine universities require a specific score on each individual GAMSAT section? Or is their decision based solely on the overall score that ACER give?

Would be really helpful to get any advice....

del85

It wouldnt hurt to have another go imo. I'll be doing it.

With the economy the way it is, I can't see Limerick (or anywhere else) making many more places available in their GEP next time round. Couple that with the fact that more and more applicants are taking GAMSAT every year, and I reckon that some jump in points is inevitable.

spagboll

I'm not too comfortable with telling other people what they should and shouldn't do

59 is a good score, given that you have your 2.1 in the bag and no finals to worry about - another sitting of the gamsat won't hurt -I think you should sit it again to be on the safe side, waht do other people think?

In Ireland the GAMSAT score is calculated by (s1+s2+(s3x2))/4, unlike the UK s3 must have a double weighting and the individual scores in each section don't matter provided you meet the cutoff

UL are due to have another 20 places to reach their 120 quota - given that the IMF are coming in who knows how that will work out! Galway are supposed to come on stream too

del85

"UL are due to have another 20 places to reach their 120 quota - given that the IMF are coming in who knows how that will work out! Galway are supposed to come on stream too"

It was announced today that education spending is to be protected, but healthcare is to be cut considerably, so I reckon it depends on what category the GEP falls under.

vasco378

Thanks for the answers. Very helpful.

Given that Limerick selected people with a score of 56 last year, I am not sure that their cut-off is going to jump to 59 or 60 even if they stay with only 70 seats. Definitely not if they increase their number of places from 70 to 90 (or more). But maybe this is just me being a bit lazy because preparing for GAMSAT again whilst working full time is a real mission....

One more question. Do the graduate medicine courses in Ireland have some sort of reduction in fees for mature graduates? Is there any destinction between "mature" graduates and other graduates who appply for grad med courses?

del85

vasco378 wrote: »

Thanks for the answers. Very helpful.

Given that Limerick selected people with a score of 56 last year, I am not sure that their cut-off is going to jump to 59 or 60 even if they stay with only 70 seats. Definitely not if they increase their number of places from 70 to 90 (or more).

Yep you're probably right. I think the fact that RCSI shot up by three points this year has some people (ie, me) a bit spooked.

vasco378 wrote: »

One more question. Do the graduate medicine courses in Ireland have some sort of reduction in fees for mature graduates? Is there any destinction between "mature" graduates and other graduates who appply for grad med courses?

Nope fees are the same for all EU GEP students, regardless of age. A couple of the banks have loans specifically tailored for GEP students which take care of the fees and living expenses with what are supposed to be preferential interest rates. You can find Ulster bank's loan deal here: http://www2.ul.ie/pdf/718128609.pdf

Also, a very limited number of mature graduates are accepted into the 'regular' 5/6 year undergrad medical stream, but not if you already have a degree (as far as I know).

vasco378

Great, thanks for the info. Repaying a €100,000 Euro loan over the allowable 10 year period after graduating as a doctor seems rather daunting. The loan from Ulter Bank doesn´t seem to be that great a deal for prospective students as it seems commercial interest rates will be charged: " Interest rates on graduation will be based on the prevailing professional lending interest rates at the time."

With the Irish economy in a major crisis and the banks experiencing the difficulties that they are at the moment, let´s see if the banks will still be able to lend to students come next year...

Yillan

I attended the Open Evening at UCD where the student guides that brought us around were highly critical of the UL course, not least because of the Problem Based Learning system employed there, which they think just isn't effective. There's also the issue of there not being an anatomy department. My friend who has graduated from RCSI tells me that cadavers and so forth are a rite of passage and that anatomy is not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

It does just seem however as if, irrespective of location, UL Medicine is an inferior course. Anyone willing to argue for/against that point?

spagboll

go to UL and have a look for yourself, talk to the students there, it's a good university with a great campus

its very petty have a go at a new course, i did my research for the CAO and limerick checked out in all departments

I think PBL should be renamed Medicine based learning, because that's what it is, you learn the biomedical sciences in the context of medicine as a whole

Also many of the North American students have UL as first choice because it is similar to North American schools

You can poke holes in all of the GEM and UEM, its mainly down to the student as to the quality of the doc imo

Yillan

I did my undergrad in Limerick so I know the place a little too well really, but I'm taking on board what you say.

One of the guides also mentioned that the exams are graded by way of red, orange and green lights and not percentage points. Is that the case? A green light if you pass, an orange if you barely pass and red if you fail or something similar. I can't see myself being fond of that system

del85

Yillan wrote: »

I attended the Open Evening at UCD where the student guides that brought us around were highly critical of the UL course

I would love to know how a student guide in UCD would feel qualified to pass judgement on a course of which he/she has absolutely no experience. Seems very petty really.

Considering that the Universities are essentially in direct competition with eachother for the best applicants, I would take such 'criticisms' with a pinch of salt.

spagboll

as a medical student I know how hard the work is, i wouldn't dream of passing a sly remark on some else's education as i know how deep that could cut

most of the spoofing about the schools comes from applicants who really don't know what they are talking about and base the vast majority of their assumptions on cutoffs, UL and RCSI get the doing most of the time, before it was UCG and people even talk ****e about trinners the odd time. I have issues with my own school, i've cursed its name a few times by now

And the Irish international students get the worst doing, but I admire their committment, a tough bunch

Svalbard

spagboll wrote: »

before it was UCG

Don't be silly, everyone knows NUIG/UCG grads are awesome!!!!

Yillan

The UL Open Evening for GEM is on the 24th March 2011, i.e 2 days before the GAMSAT Ireland exam. Can anyone understand why they'd put the open evening on so close to the entrance exam? Seems a bit ridiculous to me and I'll hardly be able to attend now, even though the course is set out such that an Open Evening is crucial to fully understand what PBL is all about. Anyone feel like drafting a strongly worded email?

ORLY?

Yillan wrote: »

The UL Open Evening for GEM is on the 24th March 2011, i.e 2 days before the GAMSAT Ireland exam. Can anyone understand why they'd put the open evening on so close to the entrance exam? Seems a bit ridiculous to me and I'll hardly be able to attend now, even though the course is set out such that an Open Evening is crucial to fully understand what PBL is all about.

I have a feeling that might be a mistake. The date for the GAMSAT is given as March 20th here.

It says at the top that these are provisional dates. Now that the GAMSAT has been set they might change the open day. The GAMSAT seems very late this year, weird.

Yillan wrote: »

Anyone feel like drafting a strongly worded email?

How about starting with a nice polite one?

Yillan

ORLY? wrote: »

I have a feeling that might be a mistake. The date for the GAMSAT is given as March 20th here.

It says at the top that these are provisional dates. Now that the GAMSAT has been set they might change the open day. The GAMSAT seems very late this year, weird.

How about starting with a nice polite one?

I neglected to mention that I'd already emailed UL med school about the relative proximity of the two events. Very politely. I first asked when the Open Evening would take place. I was told the 24th. I then politely professed concerns that it was extremely close to the GAMSAT date (26th) but this point was left unheeded in the return email, so I email again to be told that the Open Evening would take place on the 24th, but if I wanted to meet a faculty member at a time that was more suitable for me, then perhaps that could be arranged. This was less than a week ago.

I then emailed again to say that I felt the open evening date defied logic and thanked her for her help.

And there you have it

etymon

Jayyysus there's a lot of moaning going on here

Yillan

Got an email to say the Open Evening date is changed to the 31st March. Nice one.

Here

gubernaculum

I'm in RCSI but I went to the UL evening last year and I think a lot of the negative perceptions surrounding the course are rubbish. Despite slightly different methods, we all get taught the same stuff to the same level. There's an element of PBL in most grad-entry courses. It suits some people, it won't others. At the end of the day you're gonna have to spend most of your awake hours with a bum in the chair trying to figure out and learn stuff irrespective of how its been taught so it really comes down to knowing yourself enough to go 'this suits me' 'this doesn't'. Don't write off the place without finding out about it. The campus is fantastic, the med school should be (almost!) finished and it's cheaper to live down there. Think the train from Dublin was only about 2hrs which is grand. I remember being a bit miffed with the open evening because lots of audience questions were the usual pre-contemplative 'so how do I sit the GAMSAT?' stuff and I'd already got my points, but I met up with a student in the class and grilled her beforehand and she was really positive about how she was being taught. So that's what I'd do if I were you. Find a UL student willing to talk and buy them coffee. I stayed in Dublin because I'm in a long-term relationship but otherwise would have been just as happy in UL. And possibly healthier with the facilities and whatnot. In Sandyford exercise involves walking to the vending machines and trotting around the anatomy room trying to avoid being asked questions

(p.s. This is not to say I don't love RCSI. I'm really happy here but the place isn't the important thing. Liking the course is the important thing.)

gem2010

Yillan wrote: »

I did my undergrad in Limerick so I know the place a little too well really, but I'm taking on board what you say.

One of the guides also mentioned that the exams are graded by way of red, orange and green lights and not percentage points. Is that the case? A green light if you pass, an orange if you barely pass and red if you fail or something similar. I can't see myself being fond of that system

There is a traffic light system, whereby green is a pass, yellow is a pass within five percent and red is a fail... also purple has been introduced... you don't want to get a purple.

Having said that, you also get your percentages, and the mean of the class stats etc. I think they used to just give the lights but decided you kind of do need to know your percentage so the traffic light system is a bit redundant now.

I have to laugh hearing UCD guides giving out about a course they have no experience with. I'm not going to get angry because the whole situation is too ridiculous!

The way I feel about it is, if you want to do medicine badly enough, you'll all be researching all of the colleges, irrespective of county (unless you have a family or similar circumstances) - and if you do that you can find out for yourself what the course is like and why the people in UL chose UL.

I'm in first year and there are roughly 100 people in my class, started out as about 120 with some drop-outs (its a tough tough course). You can't rely on points cut offs to tell you even how popular the course is when you're comparing it to a course with only 35 places. Supply and Demand. Also it's a COMPLETELY different learning style to the traditional spend all day in lectures approach. It either suits you or it doesn't, but it is the way it's taught in N.America and St Georges and some Aussie Universities.

If you think about it logically, UL Med school is only four years old, and they had the opportunity to create whatever medical school they liked really because they were starting from scratch. So ask yourself this, why didn't they choose the traditional route? Is it because it's out-dated? Is it because it has been proven to be perhaps NOT the best way to learn? Is it because there are newer, more innovative and involved ways to teach that are more relevant to a clinical career?

I'm not trying to sell the place to you, or trying to stick up for it even, I just want you to think for yourself for a minute instead of listening to hearsay... Inform yourself and then make an informed decision based on what course suits you personally.

Best of luck to all of you. IMO anybody with 58 or higher pretty much has a place in UL. Hit me up if anybody has any questions.