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Question about renting/landlord's responsibility

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  • 21-09-2010 8:44pm
    #1
    Sianery
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭


    Hi,

    Asking here because I couldn't find another board more suited (thought I saw one before where you could ask this sort of thing) but we're renting in Galway as students and hopefully someone here will have had more experience renting/being a tenant than me and be able to help out.

    We're just wondering whether or not the landlord is under any obligation to have filled the heating oil tank prior to our moving in or are we entitled to ask him to; numerous other people older and wiser have been surprised that the tank wasn't filled already when we mention that we've yet to order our heating oil.

    I've checked threshold.ie but no luck, thanks in advance for any replies


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    #2
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Hi, this is my 3rd year renting in Galway.

    This is my first year with an oil tank but I'm fairly sure they don't have any obligation to fill it. As far as I'm aware you'd have to have it filled to the extent it was when you moved in when you're moving out, that'd be easier when they just have the tank filled at the start of the year. If I had to guess I'd say that's why they normally do it.


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    #3
    josey_whale
    Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭josey_whale


    Sianery wrote: »
    We're just wondering whether or not the landlord is under any obligation to have filled the heating oil tank prior to our moving in


    Short anwser... No. Why should he? Seeing as you are going to have to replace the oil at the end of the year.


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    #4
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭pooch90


    Imagine it was gas heating, would you expect your gas bills paid for you? Not having a dig but it's a parallel. Landlord under no obligation


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    #5
    foxinsox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭foxinsox


    I wouldn't think that he is obliged to fill it..

    If it was me renting I'd be sure to check the oil level when I moved in, I don't know whether you can read it? Call landlord and agree on the amount of oil in tank, or maybe ask him to give you something in writing.

    When you leave property I'd imagine you have to leave that same amount in the oil tank..

    Think of it as a rental car, if you receive full tank you have to return it with full tank..


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    #6
    HotDogger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭HotDogger


    It would be kind of him to have a little oil in the tank if you were moving in during the winter, but why would he bother now? Besides, you'll end up leaving some oil and he can just sell it to the next tenent! :)

    Only thing you really need to know is don't pay your last month's rent. Tell him to take the deposit instead - no matter how much his sleazy landlord ass complains. 13 months in a year as far as most of these feckers are concerned.


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    #7
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    It is illegal to use a deposit for anything other than to cover breakages or damage over and above normal wear and tear. You cannot use your deposit in lieu of rent, nor can your landlord purloin the deposit other than for stated restitutions as defined by the Act. To suggest witholding the rent and demanding the landlord use the deposit in lieu- is advocating illegal activity- and would leave the person in a bad position were the landlord to pursue them to the PRTB for non payment of rent. Times have moved on- and the pendulum is if anything, far more in favour of tenants than in the past. Non-payment of rent is however illegal- no matter what spin you put on it.


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    #8
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,033 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    The landlord is under no such obligation. If the oil tank is empty I'd suggest asking the people who deliver the oil to bleed the system for you, otherwise you may well end up with an airlock. One can do it oneself but it's entirely possible to end up with all your oil spilling all over the floor.


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    #9
    HotDogger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭HotDogger


    smccarrick wrote: »
    It is illegal to use a deposit for anything other than to cover breakages or damage over and above normal wear and tear. You cannot use your deposit in lieu of rent, nor can your landlord purloin the deposit other than for stated restitutions as defined by the Act. To suggest witholding the rent and demanding the landlord use the deposit in lieu- is advocating illegal activity- and would leave the person in a bad position were the landlord to pursue them to the PRTB for non payment of rent. Times have moved on- and the pendulum is if anything, far more in favour of tenants than in the past. Non-payment of rent is however illegal- no matter what spin you put on it.

    Laws 'er great and everything, but you only need to go over to the daft forums. You don't even have to search for the topic, landlords not returning deposits is pretty much the only conversation being had. Isn't threshold trying to get something done about deposits being held in some sort of trust? Why do you reckon that is? The pendulum is in your favour until you get to the point where the landlord actually owes you money. That's been my experience -and I keep a tidy shop!


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    #10
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    HotDogger wrote: »
    I keep a tidy shop!

    If you keep a tidy shop- stop advocating illegal behaviour.

    If you have an issue with a deposit being kept unfairly- raise a case with the PRTB- thats one of the reasons they are there after all. They will adjudicate between the landlord and his or her ex tenant. If you disagree with their ruling- tough- it is enforceable by court order if you (or the landlord or anyone else) refuse to follow through on it.

    If you withold rent- it is the perogative of the landlord to take a case against you to the PRTB. The landlord is under no obligation to accept your deposit in lieu of rent, and under the 2004 act, the deposit is ring fenced for an entirely different purpose.

    I support setting up an escrow account for the holding of deposits- providing there is an transparent process for adjudicating claims in a fast manner. Having deposits sit in an account for 6 months to a year because the landlord and the tenant can't agree a fixed amount to cover any damage caused- does not suit anyone.

    The law may be an ass- but its there for a purpose, and for the first time in Ireland we have decent tenancy law that can be enforced by either party.


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    #11
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭pooch90


    smccarrick wrote: »
    If you keep a tidy shop- stop advocating illegal behaviour.

    If you have an issue with a deposit being kept unfairly- raise a case with the PRTB- thats one of the reasons they are there after all. They will adjudicate between the landlord and his or her ex tenant. If you disagree with their ruling- tough- it is enforceable by court order if you (or the landlord or anyone else) refuse to follow through on it.

    If you withold rent- it is the perogative of the landlord to take a case against you to the PRTB. The landlord is under no obligation to accept your deposit in lieu of rent, and under the 2004 act, the deposit is ring fenced for an entirely different purpose.

    I support setting up an escrow account for the holding of deposits- providing there is an transparent process for adjudicating claims in a fast manner. Having deposits sit in an account for 6 months to a year because the landlord and the tenant can't agree a fixed amount to cover any damage caused- does not suit anyone.

    The law may be an ass- but its there for a purpose, and for the first time in Ireland we have decent tenancy law that can be enforced by either party.
    Bear in mind that some leases specify that deposit can be used to cover rent or damage then withholding your deposit is probably perfectly fine as the lease (accidentally) allows for it.

    Bad landlords are the reason so many tenants feel that its safer to withhold deposits and unfortunately from the good landlords point of view, their actions are justified. Maybe they should get on board with the proposed threshold deposit protection scheme as this would give nobody any excuse for not paying their last months rent.


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    #12
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    HotDogger wrote: »
    Only thing you really need to know is don't pay your last month's rent. Tell him to take the deposit instead - no matter how much his sleazy landlord ass complains. 13 months in a year as far as most of these feckers are concerned.

    Most leases now will specify that the deposit cannot be used as the last months rent.


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    #13
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    pooch90 wrote: »
    Bad landlords are the reason so many tenants feel that its safer to withhold deposits and unfortunately from the good landlords point of view, their actions are justified. Maybe they should get on board with the proposed threshold deposit protection scheme as this would give nobody any excuse for not paying their last months rent.

    I agree. I was very tempted to hold back my last months rent as I knew fully what my landlord was like. I talked it through with the agent and paid the last months rent, left the place spotless and didn't get any of the deposit back. Roll on the PRTB.


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    #14
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭pooch90


    djimi wrote: »
    Most leases now will specify that the deposit cannot be used as the last months rent.
    Mine doesn't.
    However, there is very little under the present circumstances which can be done about it. If someone doesn't pay the last month, you have to wait 10 days before giving them notice to leave and that only expires after your lease was defunct anyway.
    Landlords are still left having to use the PRTB to try and pursue for property damage.

    Maybe the best step forward for landlords, in order to prevent this, would be to pay annual rent in a fixed term lease over 11 months instead of 12. This would make it difficult to withold the last month as you could be evicted before your lease was up - and it should mean that the tenant has the deposit ready in case they choose to move so lack of money is not the reason. Either that or the deposit could be increased to 1.5 months rent.

    Having said that though, the main reason imo this problem exists is because there are many unregulated and dodgy landlords out there. Surely a licensing system for landlords, whereby rogue landlords were banned from renting property, would improve this situation?

    Could be 100 different way to to this but the status quo is unsatisfactory from both sides of the discussion (renter/landlord).


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    #15
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The other approach- is almost exclusively elsewhere- tenants are expected to provide their own furnishings etc- and the deposit is a minimum of a 2 month deposit (in France it can be up to a 6 month deposit, though a 4 month deposit is more normal).

    Most foreigners find it strange that we let dwellings fully furnished here......?


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    #16
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭pooch90


    smccarrick wrote: »
    The other approach- is almost exclusively elsewhere- tenants are expected to provide their own furnishings etc- and the deposit is a minimum of a 2 month deposit (in France it can be up to a 6 month deposit, though a 4 month deposit is more normal).

    Most foreigners find it strange that we let dwellings fully furnished here......?
    Generally that would be fine. All that I would ask in return is that renters are treated with respect and that our rubbish tenancy legislation scrapped and redrafted.
    I mean, landlords here can do what they like unless you have the specific protection of a fixed term lease as Part 4 is worthless.


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    #17
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    smccarrick wrote: »
    The other approach- is almost exclusively elsewhere- tenants are expected to provide their own furnishings etc- and the deposit is a minimum of a 2 month deposit (in France it can be up to a 6 month deposit, though a 4 month deposit is more normal).

    Most foreigners find it strange that we let dwellings fully furnished here......?

    Yes but dont forget that in a lot of other countries there is a much bigger culture of renting, meaning that a family could expect to be in the one place for many years, and of course it makes sense to furnish the place yourself. In Ireland your looked on as being some kind of wierd social outcast if you dont have a mortgage by your late 20s, so the culture of renting tends to more towards people who are younger, will spend a shorter time renting, and also we tend to move around a lot more when renting, so its more convenient for the property to be furnished rather than lugging furniture from place to place.

    Thats my take on it anyway; I could be completely wrong!


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