Ballina - New Traffic System

cast_iron

finisklin wrote: »

The traffic system was given a big thumbs down today as it proved wholly unable to cope with traffic for the St Patricks Day parade.

This is your only real reason for saying the system isn't working? Have you not seen the traffic on St Patrick's Day in previous years? It's never good.

St Patrick's Day and the festival are not "tests" of the system, and never will be. They are extraordinary events that would cripple any town due to the scale of traffic that comes with them. Management of the traffic at these events is what should be criticised, if it's warranted.

finisklin

cast_iron wrote: »

This is your only real reason for saying the system isn't working? Have you not seen the traffic on St Patrick's Day in previous years? It's never good.

St Patrick's Day and the festival are not "tests" of the system, and never will be. They are extraordinary events that would cripple any town due to the scale of traffic that comes with them. Management of the traffic at these events is what should be criticised, if it's warranted.

Please see my previous posts from the start and there is another separate thread when the initial changes on the bridges were proposed........any assessment of the system has to account for busy times as a misjudged opinion could be formed based on quiet, off peak times.

I admit I am the only one beating this drum on here and I have referenced others i.e. letter to the Western, traders reps etc. WN etc. that are in opposition to it for some of the reasons that I have outlined......now if only I could get some more of them on here to support me ......:rolleyes:.....I think someone has confirmed that all the councillors bar one are agin it though that doesn't appear to be a legitimate reason to boardsies.

Whatever......:p

monument

finisklin wrote: »

Please see my previous posts from the start and there is another separate thread when the initial changes on the bridges were proposed........any assessment of the system has to account for busy times as a misjudged opinion could be formed based on quiet, off peak times.

I admit I am the only one beating this drum on here and I have referenced others i.e. letter to the Western, traders reps etc. WN etc. that are in opposition to it for some of the reasons that I have outlined......now if only I could get some more of them on here to support me ......:rolleyes:.....I think someone has confirmed that all the councillors bar one are agin it though that doesn't appear to be a legitimate reason to boardsies.

Whatever......:p

Laughter is the only response to that. No system for a town like Ballina can deal with traffic levels at St Patrick's Day and other events of its size.

Ilovelucy

I have lived in the town all my life bar a couple of years at college and work. I remember when you O'Rahilly street was two way and so was convent hill. The system has been tweaked quite a bit since the first plan and ime of using both bridges each day as I live in the church road area it is not half as bad as finisklin is making out.

I have had call to ring for an ambulance in the last few weeks and they don't use the coming down through the town to get here they go from base at hospital around to the lower bridge ia circular road.

Since they opened up the lower bridge street part to allow traffic up hill street the flow has improved. Except for the fools who double park opp caffolas!

Even if The bridges loop was two way emmet St would still have been closed on St Patrick's day!

cast_iron

finisklin wrote: »

I admit I am the only one beating this drum on here and I have referenced others i.e. letter to the Western, traders reps etc. WN etc. that are in opposition to it for some of the reasons that I have outlined......now if only I could get some more of them on here to support me ......:rolleyes:....

Being the only one with a particular viewpoint on boards doesn't lessen your argument. If 10 people were on here saying the same as you, I'd still disagree as your point makes no sense to me.

To call St Patrick's day or when the town is closed for festival activities "a busy period", and to use that as an excuse to show your obvious disdain for the new setup does not help you at all. These situations should not have a major impact on how you design a traffic system for the town.

finisklin

I am beginning to feel like a member of Brian Cowen's government, the more I explain the more entrenched the argument!

It is reasonable to point out that access through the town was easier in the previous system as there was two routes through the town (Hill St. & Circular Road) with two access points over the Moy (Ham Bridge & Lower Bridge). Certainly in my experience of drving and getting through the town since the changes have reflected this.

Busy periods means more traffic and IMO means getting through the town and accessing the car parks takes longer because of the changes. Hence the delay on St. Patricks day and forthcoming delays during the busy Summer period (but fortunately less than the Celtic Tiger years as less traffic due to recession).

Until the TC comes out with the plan for the traffic system, where it fits into the Town Development Plan (very little in there on it), and what are its objectives then any assessment is going to be incomplete, either on here or elsewhere.

So far the responses to my argument have been decent - resisting change for change sake etc. However, I fail to see how the new traffic system is a more efficient means of getting traffic through and accessing the town when it has been reduced from two routes to one route and only one bridge to access easty west and vica vearsa.

The manner in which the executive's of the TC have gone about this exercise leaves a lot to be desired. The extra time stuck in traffic is spent observing the flaws of the system & designers as outlined here......

Ilovelucy

Just how long are you delayed? How much earlier do you have to leave for work in order to be on time say?

cast_iron

finisklin wrote: »

It is reasonable to point out that access through the town was easier in the previous system as there was two routes through the town (Hill St. & Circular Road) with two access points over the Moy (Ham Bridge & Lower Bridge). Certainly in my experience of drving and getting through the town since the changes have reflected this.

This puzzles me. The Hill St route is effectively still there, except cars divert over John St and down King St, then Bridge St. A large amount of cars use this route to get to the Sligo Rd/Abbey St still.

Until the TC comes out with the plan for the traffic system, where it fits into the Town Development Plan (very little in there on it), and what are its objectives then any assessment is going to be incomplete, either on here or elsewhere.

You may well be right there.

So far the responses to my argument have been decent - resisting change for change sake etc. However, I fail to see how the new traffic system is a more efficient means of getting traffic through and accessing the town when it has been reduced from two routes to one route and only one bridge to access easty west and vica vearsa.

Like I said above, I think there is still 2 routes.

The extra time stuck in traffic is spent observing the flaws of the system & designers as outlined here......

One of the biggest problems I see is at junctions. No one seems to know who has right of way. Previously, at the bridges, you had to yield to traffic on your right (as the rules of the road will say). Now there is no yielding, but cars still do.

What they should do is stay in their lane, keep driving and merge when they can. There are solid white lines just after the turns which mean cars can't change lanes till about 15m after the turn (Rules of the road say you can't cross a solid white line). If people kept to these rules, the junctions would have a constant flow of traffic as no one should be stopping. Well maybe for pedestrians:)

Ilovelucy

I agree with you cast_iron - yesterday I was blown out of it by a fella who was appoaching Emmet Street from the Ham Bridge whilst I was approaching it from Lower Bridge Street. I continued on to the loop staying in my lane but he wanted to change in to my lane and instead of waiting for me to pass him he instead started to merge in to my lane immediately then blew me out of it.

I find if you just stick to your lane until safe to change then the traffic is pretty much freeflow. It did take a while to get used to it but I do find getting around town much easier now especially sine they opened up access to Hill Street from both sides - unfortunately people don't know who has the right of way at the top of HillStreet\John Street so it causes confusion. THere is a real lack of signs everywhere.

finisklin

Ilovelucy wrote: »

Just how long are you delayed? How much earlier do you have to leave for work in order to be on time say?

I travel east to west i.e. over the Ham bridge 8-10 times a day. Never actually totted up the time spent in traffic on a daily basis but maybe considered a nerd by some posters here if I even tried considered that!!!:rolleyes:

Though the before and afte the changes would be a fairly objective exercise to do, didn't have the foresight to actually measure times before the change.

I'm definitely feeling like the minister for Transport in Cowen's government now......hang on that means I'm comparing myself to Noel Dempsey....on second thoughts just call me a nerd as that's a complement in comparision with the gilded Noel. ;):rolleyes:.....:pac:.......:pac:.....:P :cool:

cast_iron

Ilovelucy wrote: »

I do find getting around town much easier now especially sine they opened up access to Hill Street from both sides - unfortunately people don't know who has the right of way at the top of HillStreet\John Street so it causes confusion. THere is a real lack of signs everywhere.

Yes, by allowing traffic up Hill St from both directions makes getting about the town alot easier.

The thing is, no one has the right of way at the John St / Hills St junction. It's 2 lanes into 2 lanes and each to merge as they can after turning. In practice, it's a bit of a tight turn for those coming from Connolly St, so they tend to have to yield somewhat.

Around the bridges, the signs clearly state "Maintain Lane Discipline", ie. no one has a right to cross over a lane as they please.

Ilovelucy

There was a yield sign up to last week on the Connolly Street side.

I just wish people understood the bridges and how to use them properly. One of the worst places is going on the Ham bridge at Wests, people just wait there to get over to the right lane. Drives me cracked!

finisklin

One of the reasons for drivers current behaviour on the bridges was the initial signage, in particular on the Lower Bridge for traffic coming from Sligo road where the council in their wisdom put a yield sign. This had the misguided effect of giving drivers coming over the lower bridge the right to turn left straight away, crossing onto the Sligo lane in a God like manner.

This was the same problem for traffic coming from Dillon Terrace where an initial yield sign gave driver coming from the Emmet Terrace the same god given right to cross over onto the left lane, pretty much straight away.

Signage to a degree was an after thought, it was only up until recently that signs were putting up saying no right turn out of the cathedral. The pelican crossing at St. Augustine's home didn't come into effect until 18 months after the change to the one way & Emmet Street is a disaster waiting to happen as it is a speed trap. This is one fast road and the matter has been raised at TC meeting, joint policing committee meeting and still nothing done to slow drivers down.

On three separate occasions I have met cars coming over the lower bridge in the opposite direction. I met one as I was taking the corner and how I didn't hit him I will never know! The sign posting and notification to people (esp people who haven't been in Ballina in years) is non existent.

I don't want to mention the roundabout at circular road, market road.....:(

cast_iron

finisklin wrote: »

The sign posting and notification to people (esp people who haven't been in Ballina in years) is non existent.

I broadly agree with your entire post.

Though in fairness, there's not alot you can do for those that haven't been here in years. How long do you keep "New Road Layout" signs up for?

There is signage (which could be better) at each junction of the bridge telling drivers that 2 roads merge into 1, and that drivers must "Maintain Lane Discipline". There's neither road markings or signs to say anyone has to yield. I suppose even new habit die hard

finisklin

This old chestnut won't go away......

Is it just me and even with the substantially reduced traffic volumes in the town centre that as a pedestrian you are taking your own life into your own hands when crossing the road?

Crossing from Hill street to Bridge Street on the flower shop junction is mad with cars coming from behind you and in front of you.

Even worse is crossing from O'Rahilly Street to the 2euro shop. Here if you are driving down O'Rahilly, your not looking at pedestrians as your trying to gauge if it is ok to pull out while cecking to see of traffic is clear from Tone street and Pearse st. In effect, pedestrians are a blind spot as your line of vision is away from them and looking back at Tone street and across to pearse Street, even though your car is pointed towards Bridge street. This is an accident waiting to happen and it was nearly me!!!!

I'm not even going to mention crossing at the Cathedral or on Emmet terrace.

Is the pedestrian crossing at Dunnes strores on Arran Place side of the centre an actual real pedestrian crossing? Who has right of way here? Does traffic have to stop for pedestrians? The reason I ask is that even though the road is marked out in the red asphalt there are no signs or poles highlighting what ype of crossing it is?

Rant over......

monument

finisklin wrote: »

Is it just me and even with the substantially reduced traffic volumes in the town centre that as a pedestrian you are taking your own life into your own hands when crossing the road?

Sometimes reduced traffic volumes can make it harder to cross as cars can go faster.

finisklin wrote: »

Is the pedestrian crossing at Dunnes strores on Arran Place side of the centre an actual real pedestrian crossing? Who has right of way here? Does traffic have to stop for pedestrians? The reason I ask is that even though the road is marked out in the red asphalt there are no signs or poles highlighting what ype of crossing it is?

It's not a real pedestrian crossing. It's a Mickey Mouse thing.

Traffic usually has to stop for pedestrians crossing anywhere on a road as long as they don't jump on in front of cars.

But it's still a very silly design.

finisklin

At the pelican crossing on cathedral road, strictly speaking and to the letter of the law cars must stop once a pedestrian is on the crossing. The other abomination at Dunnes stores is a recipe for a accident because it's not clear who has right of way. It's more of a courtesy crossing......

finisklin

Rumour has it that there is gonna be a change to the traffic system to the town, agin. It appears a meeting of minds between traders & council will see it revert its original route. O'Rahilly St & Hill St will revert back to up O'Rahilly St and down Hill Street.

However, it is proposed to change this once the new road linking Market road (tesco) to Pearse Street opens on 1.5 years.

A renewal of more angst then, perhaps? :rolleyes:

finisklin

I came across accident at the small roundabout on market road, bohernasup (near Tesco). Looks like the jeep coming from market road pulled out in front of a car coming from Humbert street. No injuries.......guards were there fairly fast.

BengaLover

Thats a new roundabout, previously there was a perfectly fine and functioning set of lights, and everyone knew what was what, now its luck of the draw. Plus a lot of people cross the road there, they really should sort that one out before there is a fatality.

steph1

BengaLover wrote: »

Thats a new roundabout, previously there was a perfectly fine and functioning set of lights, and everyone knew what was what, now its luck of the draw. Plus a lot of people cross the road there, they really should sort that one out before there is a fatality.

Agreed! I live in the Bohernasup area and that roundabout is a nightmare at times. People dont seem to know how to use roundabouts. The traffic coming from the circular road direction dont seem to think they should slow down approaching the roundabout and just continue on oblivious to traffic that is already on the roundabout. Also people are crossing from dunnes carpark to head up towards market square and it is a nightmare trying to cross that road. Some of the speeds that drivers are doing on this road is unreal.
I would be all in favour of the traffic lights being reinstated.

cast_iron

steph1 wrote: »

I would be all in favour of the traffic lights being reinstated.

Why? Just because people don't seem to know how to use roundabouts?
Not a great reason in fairness.

Though the issue for pedestrians is entirely valid - all over the town. The mickey mouse crossings make things worse as pedestrians think they have a right of way on them even thought they don't. And with the change in direction of traffic, people still don't look the right way before crossing.

Some zebra crossings at major crossing points would be a good idea, and would bring down the overall speed of traffic in the town - which has increased with the removal of traffic lights.

Paul4As

The use of indicators at roundabouts is appalling!
I remember one evening sitting at Judges garage and counting how many cars coming from the Sligo direction travelling in to town indicated when just passed the Downhill Inn Hotel turn-off...about 1 in 20!
Do these people not know when you go straight at a roundabout (no matter how big it is) you still have to indicate when you pass the turn-off just before yours!

ciaran67

Im not worried about the road changes its the quality of driving that worries me. People seem to get some sort of dementia when they arrive at a roundabout. The one by Tesco's is mental. Not to mention the amount of idiots ive seen driving massive lorries through Ballina while on their mobiles squeezed under their necks.

steph1

No not because people dont know how to use the roundabouts but for general safety.
I drive that area a lot naturally as I live in the vicinity. People trying to cross the road have great difficulty in doing so. Motorists coming down from bohernasup to go left at the roundabout sometimes turn and then stop to let people cross the road no problem with that but they often stop suddenly which is going to lead to a serious collision one of these days.

gustavo

Paul4As wrote: »

The use of indicators at roundabouts is appalling!
I remember one evening sitting at Judges garage and counting how many cars coming from the Sligo direction travelling in to town indicated when just passed the Downhill Inn Hotel turn-off...about 1 in 20!
Do these people not know when you go straight at a roundabout (no matter how big it is) you still have to indicate when you pass the turn-off just before yours!

I always do it at that roundabout but you're right the vast majority don't.Another thing I've noticed around the town most people don't bother indicating when pulling out from a parked position

finisklin

Paul4As wrote: »

The use of indicators at roundabouts is appalling!
I remember one evening sitting at Judges garage and counting how many cars coming from the Sligo direction travelling in to town indicated when just passed the Downhill Inn Hotel turn-off...about 1 in 20!
Do these people not know when you go straight at a roundabout (no matter how big it is) you still have to indicate when you pass the turn-off just before yours!

I think the problem is that just because it's round and gives the impression of a roundabout doesn't mean that it is safe. The problem with the roundabouts in Ballina is that they are too small for the size of roads, the volume of traffic using them and in some cases (Sligo Road at Judges) traffic is coming from a 80km to a 50km speed zone in a short space.

These roundabouts are not viable for the "traffic system of the future" that the council are planning and which is under way at the moment. Unfortunately, no one knows what this master plan is and where it's going to end up. The fruits of it so far are the current system which is a nightmare for traffic and pedestrians alike, IMHO.

The roundabouts and there size really reflect an image of Ballina that is incomplete and higgedly piggedly. Not sure how visitors to Ballina Beverages view the one on Circular Road/Marian Crescent.

cast_iron

finisklin wrote: »

I think the problem is that just because it's round and gives the impression of a roundabout doesn't mean that it is safe. The problem with the roundabouts in Ballina is that they are too small for the size of roads, the volume of traffic using them and in some cases (Sligo Road at Judges) traffic is coming from a 80km to a 50km speed zone in a short space.

Not all of the roundabouts are too small for the road, but the Sligo Rd. one probably is. The speed is the big problem there - the best solution is probably a roundabout island (as opposed to a bump) and traffic calming measures to slow the traffic. They have the room to do this at that junction.

The fruits of it so far are the current system which is a nightmare for traffic and pedestrians alike, IMHO.

It's not very pedestrian friendly alright, but the traffic moves reasonably well, considering the muppets who haven't a clue how to yield correctly and how to use a roundabout.

The roundabouts and there size really reflect an image of Ballina that is incomplete and higgedly piggedly. Not sure how visitors to Ballina Beverages view the one on Circular Road/Marian Crescent.

I've been to many towns all over the country, and these small roundabouts exist all over in relatively tight spaces as there isn't much choice. It's not a sight unique to Ballina.

finisklin

Hello!

traffic has now been reverted for O'Rahilly Street & Hill Stafter 12 months of the much maligned & heralded new system. You can now drive up O'Rahilly street and down Hill street.

What happens now......is this system only temporary until the development work at market road/Pearse st is finished?

Perhaps someone can help share the plan as there is no details on the town council website.

Ilovelucy

I really don't understand why they changed those two roads back now. Sure it's only doing the same job just we are going up and down in different directions.