Alternative Greatest Irish Top 10

Corsendonk · 22-09-2010 12:37am #1

Ok so we all complained about the 40 candidates choosen(Louis Walsh, Danial O'Donnell, Stephen Gately) and the final 5 seems skewed to more recent persons from Irish History who are still alive. So who would you have picked in your top 10?

As a guide The Great Britons Top 10

Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill, (1874–1965), Prime Minister (1940–1945, 1951–1955)
Isambard Kingdom Brunel, (1806–1859), civil engineer, creator of Great Western Railway, and designer of numerous significant ships.
Diana Spencer (1961–1997), first wife of Charles, Prince of Wales (1981–1996), and mother of Princes William and Harry of Wales
Charles Darwin (1809–1882), naturalist, originator of the theory of evolution through natural selection and author of On the Origin of Species.
William Shakespeare, English thought of by many as the greatest of all playwrights.
Sir Isaac Newton (1643–1727), physicist, originator of the laws of classical mechanics and gravity.
Queen Elizabeth I of England (1533–1603), monarch (reigned 1558–1603)
John Lennon (1940–1980), musician with The Beatles, philanthropist, peace activist, artist
Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson (1758–1805), naval commander
Oliver Cromwell (1599–1658), Lord Protector

Please keep it to a one line for each.

who the fug · 22-09-2010 8:50am

My 2p

Henry Gratton

Duke of Wellington

Judgement Day · 22-09-2010 10:13am

who the fug wrote: »

My 2p

Henry Gratton

Duke of Wellington

The latter wouldn't have considered himself Irish and I'm not talking about the 'born in a stable quote'..

As a neutral (Unionist) on this issue I would suggest Michael Collins and Sean Lemass as the two greatest, genuinely Irish, Irishmen. Bob Geldof would be have to be up there too for the credit he has brought to the country and for his outspokeness about issues at home.

When you start to consider those that have tenuous/ Anglo-Irish links the list become enormous - Duke of Wellington, General Montgomery of Alamein, Lord Roberts of Kandahar, Lord Kitchener of Khartoum, Earl Beatty of Borodale......

who the fug · 22-09-2010 10:34am

Judgement Day wrote: »

The latter wouldn't have considered himself Irish and I'm not talking about the 'born in a stable quote'..

As a neutral (Unionist) on this issue I would suggest Michael Collins and Sean Lemass as the two greatest, genuinely Irish, Irishmen. Bob Geldof would be have to be up there too for the credit he has brought to the country and for his outspokeness about issues at home.

When you start to consider those that have tenuous/ Anglo-Irish links the list become enormous - Duke of Wellington, General Montgomery of Alamein, Lord Roberts of Kandahar, Lord Kitchener of Khartoum, Earl Beatty of Borodale......

Even your tenuous/ Anglo-Irish links are more deserving than the list I saw on RTE, (Love the idea of Earl Kitchner talking like Pat Spillane)

Re the Duke of Wellington it was only his success that made him English, otherwise him and his brother were just paddies on the make in London

Edmund Burke is another contender.

Also Dev, O' Connell Wolf Tone should be in the list

fontanalis · 22-09-2010 2:23pm

Why Diana Spencer?

who the fug · 22-09-2010 2:27pm

fontanalis wrote: »

Why Diana Spencer?

If you can find out the answer please let me know, and the bint nearly won it :eek:

Judgement Day · 22-09-2010 2:28pm

who the fug wrote: »

If you can find out the answer please let me know, and the bint nearly won it :eek:

Campaigning against landmines amongst other good works - not to mention popular affection with the British public.

who the fug · 22-09-2010 2:38pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Campaigning against landmines amongst other good works - not to mention popular affection with the British public.

Still only a minor footnote in history, was a sop to get the ratings up.

Emmeline Pankhurst would would sit better on that list

Selected · 22-09-2010 3:06pm

There have been no 'great' Irishmen.

There have been many Irishmen with the potential for greatness only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment.

There is a fundamental flaw in heart of every Irishman’s character.

Ernesto (Che) Guevara had some Irish blood in him though.

The composition of such a list is an embarrassment and indictment of our delusional little island.

If there is a great Irishman out there, I’m sure, he’s keeping his mouth shut.

who the fug · 22-09-2010 3:09pm

Selected wrote: »

There have been no 'great' Irishmen.

There have been many Irishmen with the potential for greatness only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment.

There is a fundamental flaw in heart of every Irishman’s character.

Ernesto (Che) Guevara had some Irish blood in him though.

Yes we seemed to have invented the concept of grasping defeat from the jaws of victory

Che
Wasn't he one the Lynchs from Cork

mikemac · 22-09-2010 3:18pm

John Holland; Pioneer in submarine design, never got rich from it though
TK Whitaker, achieved rapid promotion in the civil service and drew up his plan
Brian Boru, even if he was a Clareman :P
John Barry "Father of the United States Navy" as he is known

Selected wrote: »

The composition of such a list is an embarrassment and indictment of our delusional little island.

Self hatred is such an unattractive trait in Irish people

Selected · 22-09-2010 3:29pm

feelingstressed wrote: »

Self hatred is such an unattractive trait in Irish people

Delusions of Grandeur even less attractive but much more dangerous.

VW 1 · 22-09-2010 3:29pm

Selected wrote: »

There have been no 'great' Irishmen.

There have been many Irishmen with the potential for greatness only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment.

There is a fundamental flaw in heart of every Irishman’s character.

Ernesto (Che) Guevara had some Irish blood in him though.

The composition of such a list is an embarrassment and indictment of our delusional little island.

If there is a great Irishman out there, I’m sure, he’s keeping his mouth shut.

Ernesto Guevara Lynch being his Father's full name, had an Irish Grandfather from Clare I do believe..

Selected · 22-09-2010 3:36pm

If push came to shove and I had to choose a number one Irishman, then, I would opt for J. W. Dunne (1875 — 1949)

I don't really hate everyone.:)

Denerick · 22-09-2010 3:38pm

The following should definately have been included:

Daniel O'Connell. (Of international significance. One early edition of the Websters dictionary had a picture of O'Connell beside the word 'agitator')

C.S. Parnell.

Jonathon Swift.

Edmund Burke.

Henry Grattan.

Wolfe Tone. (For his 'Argument on behalf of the Catholics' if nothing else)

fontanalis · 22-09-2010 4:29pm

Selected wrote: »

There have been no 'great' Irishmen.

There have been many Irishmen with the potential for greatness only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment.

There is a fundamental flaw in heart of every Irishman’s character.

Ernesto (Che) Guevara had some Irish blood in him though.

The composition of such a list is an embarrassment and indictment of our delusional little island.

If there is a great Irishman out there, I’m sure, he’s keeping his mouth shut.

So getting your face on a t-shirt is good?

PatsytheNazi · 22-09-2010 4:50pm

Selected wrote: »

There have been no 'great' Irishmen.

There have been many Irishmen with the potential for greatness only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment.

There is a fundamental flaw in heart of every Irishman’s character.

Ernesto (Che) Guevara had some Irish blood in him though.

The composition of such a list is an embarrassment and indictment of our delusional little island.

If there is a great Irishman out there, I’m sure, he’s keeping his mouth shut.

Firstly, women are included so lets get rid of the " no 'great' Irishmen. " tripe. Lets look at some on the Irish list shall we ( even if I don't like one or two of them)

Well I don't think John Hume ( Nobel Peace Prize ), Mary Robbo ( President for two terms, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, awarded the Presidental Medal of Freedom the highest civilian honour in the US ), Bono ( what can I state that he hasn't already himself ) can be said to have " only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment. " as their still alive and well and enjoying the praise etc.

Lets compare it to some on the Brit top ten -

Heratio Nelson - Well if a French sniper mortally wounding him as the battle was almost over not what you call failing at the pivotal and defining moment........ WTF is ?

Churchill - sacked for the fiasco of Gilipolli in WW1, after WW2 he was thanked by the british electorate by kicking him out !!!!

Cromwell - they thought so much of him in England that they dug up his body to publicily hang him !!!!

John Lennon - hippie, loudmouth and victim of fan worship

who the fug · 22-09-2010 4:57pm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Firstly, women are included so lets get rid of the " no 'great' Irishmen. " tripe. Lets look at some on the Irish list shall we ( even if I don't like one or two of them)

Well I don't think John Hume ( Nobel Peace Prize ), Mary Robbo ( President for two terms, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, awarded the Presidental Medal of Freedom the highest civilian honour in the US ), Bono ( what can I state that he hasn't already himself ) can be said to have " only to fail at the pivotal and defining moment. "

Marry Robbo ****ed off to join the UN did not do two terms, and got sacked from her job in the UN because she upset the Yanks

John Hume what about David Trimble

Bono sings with a modern beat combo, good business man

PatsytheNazi · 22-09-2010 5:17pm

who the fug wrote: »

Marry Robbo ****ed off to join the UN did not do two terms, and got sacked from her job in the UN because she upset the Yanks

John Hume what about David Trimble

Bono sings with a modern beat combo, good business man

Two terms as first woman Pres. of Ireland :rolleyes:

As for her number at the UN, she had initially announced her intention to serve a single four-year period, she extended the term by a year following an appeal from Kofi Annan. However she then upset poor little Israel the first state of America at a rascism conference and jacked up thanks to the Yanks. Nowadays she serves as an Honorary Co-Chair for the World Justice Project. Not bad for a Ballina bird.

As for former supporter/member of the paramilitary Ulster Vanguard and acquantance of loyalist Billy Wright, David Trimble, he's now Lord Trimble. John Hume has been awarded the Martin Luther King Peace Award and Gandhi Peace Prize among many others. I will leave it to the readers to decide themselves which of the two they would admire the better.

Selected · 22-09-2010 5:30pm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

as their still alive and well and enjoying the praise etc.

True greatness is usually understated and mostly goes unrecognised.

Depends on your perspective I guess.

Selected · 22-09-2010 5:34pm

fontanalis wrote: »

So getting your face on a t-shirt is good?

No, it's great.

Corsendonk · 23-09-2010 12:20am

Ok so far I have got a debate on the example of the Great Britons top ten that I posted as a guide or posters submitting 4 or 5 Irish people that should be included in the top 10 but no one has actually submitted a full top 10 Irish Greatest. Anyone care to submit a top ten with a one liner on each?

wolfpawnat · 23-09-2010 12:25am

Judgement Day wrote: »

The latter wouldn't have considered himself Irish and I'm not talking about the 'born in a stable quote'

I do love O'Connells reply!

DoW "Just because One is born in a stable, does not make One a horse"

DoC "No, but it may make you an a$$!"

Haha we Irish are too quick with our wit!:D

Am I the only one to notice that Michael Davin was not even in the top 100!?!?! I mean that is a serious wtf???

who the fug · 23-09-2010 8:44am

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Two terms as first woman Pres. of Ireland :rolleyes:

One Term and she couldn't bother arse to finish that

lebowski11 · 24-09-2010 4:40pm

Patrick Sarsfield (1660-1693) Widely respected military commander, loved by his own people for famously destroying the Williamite siege train in Ballyneety Co. Limerick during the Williamite war.

wolfpawnat · 24-09-2010 5:00pm

lebowski11 wrote: »

Patrick Sarsfield (1660-1693) Widely respected military commander, loved by his own people for famously destroying the Williamite siege train in Ballyneety Co. Limerick during the Williamite war.

Never thought of him, great choice!!!!!

Ash.J.Williams · 24-09-2010 5:12pm

Robert Boyle - Chemistry
Kevin Shields-phill Lynott - Rory Gallagher - musicians
Joyce- WB Yeats - literature

Podge_irl · 24-09-2010 5:16pm

William Rowan Hamilton - always surprisingly overlooked in these issues. Himself, Walton and Boyle would probably be Ireland's three greatest scientists, but I would give the top accolade to Hamilton personally.

lebowski11 · 24-09-2010 10:57pm

1).Colm Cille(St. Columba) 521-597.-Founded monasteries at Iona and Durrow, converted the picts and credited with transcribing many manuscripts.
2).Brian Boru 941-1014.-Routed the vikings at Clontarf, attained high kingship of Ireland.
3).Patrick Sarsfield 1660-1693.-Hero of the Williamite war, widely respected militaryman throughout Europe.
4)Theobald Wolfe Tone 1763-1798.-Championed Catholic rights in his 'Argument...', revolutionary.
5)Daniel O'Connell 1775-1847.-Campaigned for Catholic emancipation,inspired many leaders of oppresed peoples throughout the world.
6).Charles Stuart Parnell 1846-1891.-Irish nationalist,ultra skilled member of the British parliament
7).Oscar Wilde 1854-1900.-World renowned literary genius.
8).John B. Bury 1861-1927-Historian,historical linguist,scholar of classics,child genius.
9).Michael Collins 1890-1922.-Revered Revolutinary leader.
10).Phil Lynott 1949-1986.-Musician,first proper Irish rock superstar,influenced numerous musicians worldwide.

This list is highly subjective and I'm sure I've forgotten many worthy figures from our country's history. I could have included many figures at the expense of others...for instance, St. Colombanus for Colm Cille. Hugh O'Neill, Owen Roe O'Neill or Red Hugh O'Donnell for Patrick Sarsfield. Swift, Yeats or Joyce for Oscar Wilde. Dev,Connolly or Pearse for Collins(well, maybe not). Or even Bono for Phil Lynott. I afforded myself one entry from left field in the shape of John Bury, he's an interesting character and is largely unrecognised. No Irish scientist sprung to mind so I didn't include any, but a previous poster listed 3 and if I knew anything about any of them I would liked to have included one.

A previous poster stated that there are no great Irishmen and pointed out that many of whom we consider to be great are in fact deeply flawed. I'd retort by saying that in the British version of their greatest person the vote went to Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell was far from perfect, he's popular image in Britain was created in the 18th Century. The attrocities he commited in Ireland led to him being the most hated historical figure in this country. Quenn Elizabeth was also on the list, the Virgin Queen in England, the Tyrannical Queen in Ireland. I believe that Russia voted Stalin as their greatest person.

PatsytheNazi · 26-09-2010 5:28pm

who the fug wrote: »

John Hume what about David Trimble

I'd doubt Trimble or any other unionist leader ever experienced the Brits in the same way as John Hume and others of the civil rights movement in the early 70's.

purplepanda · 29-09-2010 6:38pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The latter wouldn't have considered himself Irish and I'm not talking about the 'born in a stable quote'..

As a neutral (Unionist) on this issue I would suggest Michael Collins and Sean Lemass as the two greatest, genuinely Irish, Irishmen. Bob Geldof would be have to be up there too for the credit he has brought to the country and for his outspokeness about issues at home.

When you start to consider those that have tenuous/ Anglo-Irish links the list become enormous - Duke of Wellington, General Montgomery of Alamein, Lord Roberts of Kandahar, Lord Kitchener of Khartoum, Earl Beatty of Borodale......

Amazing how many revered Irish, being of Anglo-Irish background in literature or the Arts are lauded but as soon as political or military figures are mentioned it's assumed that you have to be from a certain tradition....!

Even though many of that tradition have been Anglo-Irish & / or Protestant:rolleyes:

Alternative Greatest Irish Top 10

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