re: child not listening in the class

aspasp1

Hi All,

My 4 year and two month old daughter has just started her school ( junior infant) and today I was told by her teacher that she is not concentrating/ listening in the class and makes funny noises, does not sit quietly in her chair and this disturbs the whole class. I am so stressed with this issue. Also, we are non national and english is not our primary language so naturally she is facing difficulty in this area as well. Her english has improved dramatically in last few weeks. Me and wife are already stressed with this, is anyone else in the same boat. I do understand that she is only four but I wil hate if she is legging behind in her class and would hate her to repeat her year in the same class. Although teacher said its too early to say that she will be repeating. If someone can help how will I deal with this and how I can explain my little one all these things...I just want to see improvements......please help !! anyone....?

Thanks in advance,

aspasp1

Grawns

My immeditate reaction is she is too young. Take her out and send her when she is 5 and put her in a montessori in the meantime. The avarage age for starting school is 5 or close to 5 not just gone 4.

implausible

aspasp1 wrote: »

Hi All,

My 4 year and two month old daughter has just started her school ( junior infant)

I wil hate if she is legging behind in her class and would hate her to repeat her year in the same class. Although teacher said its too early to say that she will be repeating.

I'd agree that she is a bit young, has she done a year in playschool?

I am posting just to give you a bit of information, that repeating classes is not as common here as it is in some Eastern European countries. I recently was talking to a Polish parent who was amazed to hear that her daughter could progress onto the next year (in secondary school), even if she hadn't passed her exams!

By the way, your English is excellent!

cynder

aspasp1 wrote: »

Hi All,

My 4 year and two month old daughter has just started her school ( junior infant) and today I was told by her teacher that she is not concentrating/ listening in the class and makes funny noises, does not sit quietly in her chair and this disturbs the whole class. I am so stressed with this issue. Also, we are non national and english is not our primary language so naturally she is facing difficulty in this area as well. Her english has improved dramatically in last few weeks. Me and wife are already stressed with this, is anyone else in the same boat. I do understand that she is only four but I wil hate if she is legging behind in her class and would hate her to repeat her year in the same class. Although teacher said its too early to say that she will be repeating. If someone can help how will I deal with this and how I can explain my little one all these things...I just want to see improvements......please help !! anyone....?

Thanks in advance,

aspasp1

Did the teacher give you any advice?

Thee must be some support groups for non nationals, try phoning the citizens advice ( i over heard a conversation where an Indian 4 year old with possible autism was told to seek help from a translator and they suggested contacting the citizens advice for more info)


If she cant understand what is being said of course she is not going to listen and her way of dealing with it is by making noises to herself to keep herself occupied, the teachers must have come across it before, in my eldest girls school they have a special resource teacher who has a small class of non nationals and helps them talk and understand English.

if the teacher has not offered any advice i would ask the teacher if there is any advice they could give you. (also the public health nurse should also be able to help you or give you information that you need)

also make sure you talk to your daughter in english. The teacher has to deal with the situation but you can make things easier for her at home by talking to her in english.

if the problem isn't language related then its a waiting game, she could feel stressed and what she does sooths her, does she have this odd behavior at home or only at school?


also agree your english is good

coolabula

she may also need to visit an occupational therapist, my son was referred to them by the school when he displayed similar behaviour to your daughter.
the school should have details of how to contact them and get an appointment if needed

aspasp1

Thanks all for replying,

to Grawns , Deemark,

To me this is the normal age for a kid to start school. Atleast from where I come this is absolutely normal. I agree kids should be nearly 5 in Ireland to start school. Not being funny, but I started my school when I was 4 years and 1 month somewhere in 1983... And no she did not had any free preschool year before this. Infact this is the first time she has been away from us. And what scares me most is if she had to repeat the year, this is not normal in my home country.

Did the teacher give you any advice?

No the teacher did not give any advice yet or I guess probably she did not think that at this stage it was necessary. She only told me as a precautionary measure.

also make sure you talk to your daughter in english. The teacher has to deal with the situation but you can make things easier for her at home by talking to her in english.

Yes I am trying to teach her english at home as much as possible. And she is grasping it well so far. She can also communicate day to day to things with some grammer mistakes which I beleive is normal at this age. It is not necessary to mention but she can fluently speak two languages. One is her mother tounge and other is the national language of the country where I come from.

does she have this odd behavior at home or only at school?

At home she is ok its only school what worries me. But one thing could be that she is very shy to someone who she doesnt know. Is that the problem, I dont know?

Thanks very much all for your kind replies, hope you might have something else to add which might make us feel better.

aspasp1

implausible

aspasp1 wrote: »

Not being funny, but I started my school when I was 4 years and 1 month somewhere in 1983... And no she did not had any free preschool year before this. Infact this is the first time she has been away from us.

A lot of Irish people started at this age too, but that was years ago (28 in my case:eek:). 5 is the norm now.

I think that your daughter is just having difficulty settling into the new situation. The other kids have been to preschool for a year before going to primary school and are probably more used to the structure and routine. Your daughter has not been away from you before and naturally is going to find it strange to be sitting in a seat for so long, especially when she doesn't understand everything.

Have you explained to her what she should do in school? Maybe, if you made it into a game and practised at home, she might understand what she has to do e.g. sitting still. Also, is there a language support teacher in the school? S/he might be able to help.

Mods: might OP's query be dealt with better in the general Parenting forum?

aspasp1

Thanks deemark,

Have you explained to her what she should do in school?

I think this is where the problem is. We never thought it was needed to explain how she should behave and what happens if she is not behaving? I have just explained her that this is not accepteble-your teacher was complaining about you and I hope she did understand what I meant. Would be eager to ask teacher in a next week or so to see some positive improvements......And she is not slow or anything. She can read any alphabets if she will see tesco she can read like t...e...s....c....o... , can count one to fifty, can find odd one out, find and count, matching etc. etc. I am just being overconcerned about her being repeating a year? I dont know

But thanks for your reply, as I said we just have started explaining her that hoe she should behave in the school and we will wait for the results...

aspasp1

Big Bag of Chips

I would be inclined to keep an eye on her for the next few weeks (maybe until Hallowe'en (mid term)). If she hasn't improved by then, would taking her out and putting her in a pre-school be an option? She would be eligible for a free pre-school place this year. The trouble might be finding an available place at this stage!

If you are genuinely concerned, and if the teacher feels that she is not coping well, it might be the best option. Then by next year she'll have better English, and better understanding of what school is all about (having been to play-school).

It's a very personal choice, but if you're really concerned about her repeating, I think you'd be better off taking her out now. By next year she'll already have made her friends, and might not like the fact that they have all moved on, and she's staying in "baby" infants. And next year she won't be the youngest in the class either.

cynder

Just to say in the case of my lady, she started school at 3 two weeks later she turned 4, she did well in j.infants and s.infants but failed in first class she was given resource help and kept back in first class. They will only keep a child back if they have educational difficulties.


Give your child a chance to settle, if the behavior carries on (for another month or so maybe less)then the teacher should by rights have another chat with you, the teacher should offer you advice and maybe discuss about having her referred to a specialist to have her assessed to see what is causing the odd behaviour. If you are really concerned in the mean time speak with your public health nurse, if the public heath nurse is concerned she can also refer your daughter to be assessed. This will determine what is causing her odd behaviour and help will be offered.


At the end of the day she could be doing it because she is uncomfortable in her surroundings and is soothing herself. (how to stop her doing that i don't know) From what you have said she is a bright child who can talk well in 2 different languages, perhaps leaning a 3rd is a little difficult but it will come with time. English is supposed to be a hard language to learn.

about blank

aspasp1 wrote: »

Hi All,

My 4 year and two month old daughter has just started her school ( junior infant) and today I was told by her teacher that she is not concentrating/ listening in the class and makes funny noises, does not sit quietly in her chair and this disturbs the whole class. I am so stressed with this issue. Also, we are non national and english is not our primary language so naturally she is facing difficulty in this area as well. Her english has improved dramatically in last few weeks. Me and wife are already stressed with this, is anyone else in the same boat. I do understand that she is only four but I wil hate if she is legging behind in her class and would hate her to repeat her year in the same class. Although teacher said its too early to say that she will be repeating. If someone can help how will I deal with this and how I can explain my little one all these things...I just want to see improvements......please help !! anyone....?

Thanks in advance,

aspasp1

Try not to get stressed as your daughter would pick up on this, instead talk to her on her own (maybe after a bath when she in bed) and ask her what was school like and did she like it etc... sometimes just a little chat can help

I would not worry about repeating years, you can take her out and put her in at 5, I put my son in at 5 but he went to creche for one year to get him used to teacher class room enviroment, I believe this is the best option for you.


As far as being non-national with limited english, i'm sure the teacher can advise you regards exercises and activites to enhance both you and your daughters english.

Have you considered the fact she may be nervous/timid/shy about being in school? sometimes the lack of attention is caused by the child finding it difficult to communicate with others.

good luck, if in doubt, talk it out

Scoobydoobydoo

aspasp1 wrote: »

To me this is the normal age for a kid to start school. Atleast from where I come this is absolutely normal. I agree kids should be nearly 5 in Ireland to start school. Not being funny, but I started my school when I was 4 years and 1 month somewhere in 1983... And no she did not had any free preschool year before this. Infact this is the first time she has been away from us. And what scares me most is if she had to repeat the year, this is not normal in my home country.

Sorry, though I realise you are a concerned parent, these words above struck me, and I think you're being a bit unfair to your daughter, regarding your expectations of her at this age. This is not about you and what your experience was or what is "normal" in your country. You, I take it, didn't start school at four years (and 1 month!) in a foreign language? I think it would be a better option to try to get a preschool place, as has been mentioned, to allow her to mix with peers in a more relaxed playful environment, where she can get up to speed with the language under less pressure. I don't see the need to have her in school yet, and the preschool could really give her the confidence she needs to get stuck in to big school when she's ready.

about blank

grindelwald wrote: »

Just to say in the case of my lady, she started school at 3 two weeks later she turned 4, she did well in j.infants and s.infants but failed in first class she was given resource help and kept back in first class. They will only keep a child back if they have educational difficulties.


Give your child a chance to settle, if the behavior carries on (for another month or so maybe less)then the teacher should by rights have another chat with you, the teacher should offer you advice and maybe discuss about having her referred to a specialist to have her assessed to see what is causing the odd behaviour. If you are really concerned in the mean time speak with your public health nurse, if the public heath nurse is concerned she can also refer your daughter to be assessed. This will determine what is causing her odd behaviour and help will be offered.


At the end of the day she could be doing it because she is uncomfortable in her surroundings and is soothing herself. (how to stop her doing that i don't know) From what you have said she is a bright child who can talk well in 2 different languages, perhaps leaning a 3rd is a little difficult but it will come with time. English is supposed to be a hard language to learn.

While I agree to the above, i can't help feeling more often than not parents sometimes overreact and get the child assessed and in some cases get diagnosed wrongly, sometimes parents forget the child is still only a baby in some ways

just my 2 cents, great advice by the way ^^

the_syco

grindelwald wrote: »

English is supposed to be a hard language to learn.

English, Japanese and Polish are meant to be the three hardest languages to learn. No knowing where you are from, I'll say that your kid may be finding it hard to understand what is happening.

As for her making funny noises, here's a question: when you speak to her in english, does she ever say what you said to her in english, in her native tongue, or perhaps roll the english vowels on her tongue, as such, so that she'd know what they mean? Doing such at home may not be noticed, as she is getting used to the language, but doing so nearby other people who have spoken another language, it may seem odd? The "funny noises" may be her translating the words into her native language?

cynder

the_syco wrote: »

English, Japanese and Polish are meant to be the three hardest languages to learn. No knowing where you are from, I'll say that your kid may be finding it hard to understand what is happening.

As for her making funny noises, here's a question: when you speak to her in english, does she ever say what you said to her in english, in her native tongue, or perhaps roll the english vowels on her tongue, as such, so that she'd know what they mean? Doing such at home may not be noticed, as she is getting used to the language, but doing so nearby other people who have spoken another language, it may seem odd? The "funny noises" may be her translating the words into her native language?

Good spot, that is quite possible, i never thought of that.

astra2000

aspasp1 wrote: »

Hi All,

My 4 year and two month old daughter has just started her school ( junior infant) and today I was told by her teacher that she is not concentrating/ listening in the class and makes funny noises, does not sit quietly in her chair and this disturbs the whole class. I am so stressed with this issue. Also, we are non national and english is not our primary language so naturally she is facing difficulty in this area as well. Her english has improved dramatically in last few weeks. Me and wife are already stressed with this, is anyone else in the same boat. I do understand that she is only four but I wil hate if she is legging behind in her class and would hate her to repeat her year in the same class. Although teacher said its too early to say that she will be repeating. If someone can help how will I deal with this and how I can explain my little one all these things...I just want to see improvements......please help !! anyone....?

Thanks in advance,

aspasp1

Hi op I do agree that your child is a bit young given that a lot of kids start school at almost five, most kids do attend a year at playschool and this prepares them for sitting quietly etc so maybe it may be just that she needs to get used towhat is been required. Did the teacher approach you especially to voice concerns? How experienced is the teacher maybe she just expects too much.From what I have gathered from my own kids junior teacher it takes some children some time to settle and in her words she does not deem it to be an issue unless it continues after christmas.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things helping her with her english and explaining what is required of her, Relax a little speak with other parents in your school and you may get a clearer picture of what the teacher is like and what they have experienced with their kids.

aspasp1

You, I take it, didn't start school at four years (and 1 month!) in a foreign language?

That's right so I cant really compare my situation with her and probably I am expecting too much from her. Thanks,

They will only keep a child back if they have educational difficulties.

So far I beleive she did not give any sign that she has learning difficulties. She can remember virtualy anything and has a good visual memory. For example, she will always pick up letters from post box and will tell that this is esb bill or gas bill or aib letter or hse or whatever the case be.


The "funny noises" may be her translating the words into her native language?

Thanks, never thought of this. Actually everytime when I talk to her in english she will reply me back in English with or without proper words. And sometimes the words do sound like some sh..sh...sh...sh... It seems that she is trying to speak that word but she cant exactly find a right word and she will just make uo from own dictionary..

From lot of posts I feel that nothing has happened so far and I am reacting too much and expecting too much from a four year old. But still thanks so much all of you that I feel lot better now...

aspasp1

smelltheglove

I would also agree that she is too young. My daughters playschool just collected the forms last week for the free preschool year and I would highly recommend putting her in playschool and availing of your free year and sending her again next year. It is not her native language and if she still needs to get a grasp of the language it will make it more difficult for her to learn the basics of the school curriculum.

The average age is 5 and with kids having the extra advantage of being fluent in the language she may find it extremely difficult and end up having to stay back anyway. I held my own daughter back after starting her at the same age, it was more she was not able for school socially and ended up going from a mid range student to being top of her class after she was held back. A lot of parents rush their kids into school and then dont want to disappoint them by holding them back but they are so much better off. My 3 yr old, 4 next week, is in her second year of playschool socially she is great and her teacher recommended trying to get her into school as she is flying but after the experience with the first there was no way I would even consider it.

lee4892

As a Nurse My first thought is that she's a child! She's four years old! My six year old can't sit still at home nevermind school. I wouldn't be too concerned about this, I'm sure the teacher has spoken to a lot of the parent's in your childs class about the same problem. It may be that she's just bored in the classroom.

You should discuss this with your daughter. How much playtime do they get in class? Do they get to talk quietly with their friends enough in the classroom? Or are they expected to sit still and quiet (as I remember school) until home time?

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. But I would just say that you shouldn't take her out of school just yet. It'll be much much harder for you to get her to go back when she's five/six. If it's stressing you a whole lot, take her to see your GP and ask his/her advice. They will assess her and if needed will advise a Occupational therapist or provide you with info on behavioural conditions that at your daughters age can be treated with simple exercises at home.

thesimpsons

your daughter sounds quite bright already being as there are many many children whose first language is english who can't spell out words at this age. While she might be a bit on the young side, there are also plenty of children who start school in Ireland at just 4 yrs old - my daughter's friend didn't actually turn 4 yrs until the end of Sept so she actaully started at 3yrs 11months - in 6th class now and she is fine. My own daughter is a June baby and started in the year she was just 4, and coped perfectly well all through school. She is now 17yrs. Remember too there are many Irish children who start school in gaelscoils (all education through Irish language) who wouldn't have this as their normal language at home or in general life. Your daughter has the advantage in this case that she already has an ear for languages and will have lots of english langauge options avail to her.

There are also many many children who can't sit still for any length of time in a classroom well into their second year in school. You sound like a concerned parent who only wishes the best for your daughter and want her to progress and this is only natural. You might also find that the teacher has had to speak to other parents about their children as well. Don't feel that its only happening to you. Actually like another poster, I wondered if your daughter was a bit bored in school as well.

Keep alm about it all, explaining all to her and keeping in touch with the teacher and principal on a regular basis. Best of luck.

dan_d

Um..having recently seen a JI class in action, half the class behave like that, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Also if the language is a major problem, some schools take kids who don't have English as a primary language out for half an hour everyday so the resource teacher can work with them to improve it? Maybe that's a thought?

It's a bit odd the teacher saying this to you after less than a month; and a bit unfair! Either every other child in the class is perfect, or that teacher hasn't an awful lot of experience of junior infants. She's only 4.

smelltheglove

dan_d wrote: »

It's a bit odd the teacher saying this to you after less than a month; and a bit unfair! Either every other child in the class is perfect, or that teacher hasn't an awful lot of experience of junior infants. She's only 4.

This was my first impression tbh too. Just giving my advice based on experience but a very very good point.

KittyeeTrix

My youngest son went to school aged 4 and I decided to pull him out at christmas time as everyday there were notes in his workbooks saying that he hadn't managed to do the work on time in the class. I thought it was all age related.
He went back the following year and things did not improve. He was eventually diagnosed as being dyspraxic and he too would be a little disruptive in class (getting up out of seat and roaming around, talking to himself as a concentration aid, terrible handwriting).

He now attends Enable Ireland and he has improved considerably. This is in part down to the fact that his resource teacher is amazing and now the teachers allow him to work at the pace he is physically able for. He is praised more often for what he has done rather than be reprimanded for what he hasn't managed to do and this has meant the world of difference to him and me!!

Just my story and the reason for my 4 year old not being able to manage school at a young age. In our case it wouldn't have mattered if he had started at 5 as the same problems would've been present.....

flutterflye

I find it a bit perplexing that the teacher would tell you this when it would obviously worry you, but not suggest anywhere you could go for help with the matter.

As the mother of a child with adhd, I would say to not rule this or another learning difficulty out, but... only if a few years down the line, the situation has not changed.

But I agree with everyone else - the language barrier sounds to be the problem.
I think you should set up a meeting with the teacher and principal to discuss what supports can be put in place to help her.

coffee_cake

I think the idea that the noises are translation sound reasonable. I think you should also look for supports where you can, moving onto her 3rd language at age 4 is good going. I also think maybe everyone is being a bit quick to say "it must be the age", I wonder why everyone is so concerned about it

wolfpawnat

I do not think 4 is too young for school, I went to school at 4, my son I will be insisting will start at 4 and 7months as I do not want him to be too old in school ( I was 19 when I finished as I moved to another area and though I was in 6th year I had to move back to 5th because of it being a Gaeltacht) The Gov give the free pre school year for 3-4 year olds so obviously it must be intended to start school around 4 or 4 and a half!

My thoughts are the same as thoses above. Children under 6 have NO attention span. It is not their fault they are children! Sounds to me like the teacher isn't able to cope with her class! Also your daughter seens to have a good enough vobulary of English so I do not think that is the issue, perhaps (and not saying this to be bad) the teacher is not prepared to help her along any little bit extra because of it not being her first lanuage, like with any profession, there are those who really don't put in the effort necessary for their position.

Also it is recommended to introduce languages you wish your child to pick up BEFORE the age of 7.They grasp it easier. Though it means a 2 year old is often skipping between their laguages in one sentance, it is better for their learning of the languages in the long run.

Well done OP, you seem to have a smart little girl on your lands You should be proud!

aspasp1

hi all,

OP here again. When I went to collect my child yesterday, the class teacher goes can I have a word with you and I was thinking OMG, she did it again I am gone. But instead teacher said she has been behaving very good and her english is gone lot better than before. No noise, no mess in the class. And I was so happy. Brought my child over to smyths straight and got her a surprise gift. I am so happy...

thanks very much to all off you for taking time to reply and advice on this, it was very helpful.

aspasp1

cynder

aspasp1 wrote: »

hi all,

OP here again. When I went to collect my child yesterday, the class teacher goes can I have a word with you and I was thinking OMG, she did it again I am gone. But instead teacher said she has been behaving very good and her english is gone lot better than before. No noise, no mess in the class. And I was so happy. Brought my child over to smyths straight and got her a surprise gift. I am so happy...

thanks very much to all off you for taking time to reply and advice on this, it was very helpful.

aspasp1

Great news.

di11on

I started school at 4 and a day or two... did my leaving at 16... started university at 17... lunacy... complete lunacy.

What's the hurry?

I could have done with a year or two more to smell the roses along the way.

There's no rush for anyone. Not being towards the younger end of the class will also be good for your child's self esteem.

My 2 euro cents:-)

Cat Melodeon

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The Gov give the free pre school year for 3-4 year olds so obviously it must be intended to start school around 4 or 4 and a half!

Actually, the Dept Ed & Science is considering moving to a minimum age of five on the basis of extensive international research showing that children do better when formal schooling is delayed until they are six. Hopefully they'll throw in two years of free play-schooling too...


From my own experience in schools, boys definitely shouldn't start school until they are at least five. Most girls do okay aged four, but it can be stressful for them too. Freer educational settings like Montessori or sessional playgroups allow them to develop social and personal skills.

There's another thread in the parenting forum discussing the importance of preschool in setting kids up for 'big' school. Being younger than their classmates can lead to them developing poor self-esteeem or to being labelled as problematic, something that can follow them for the rest of their school days. Early testing for disorders such as dyslexia or dyscalculia (which can't in any case be properly detected until a child is about 8) can set a child up to fail when in fact all they need is a bit more time.

Like I said, some kids do absolutely fine starting young (I was 4 and one month myself when I started and I was grand) but there is a move to delaying the start of schooling and those who do begin younger may be left at a disadvantage. I won't be starting my own son until he is five and a bit.

LittleBook

OP, I'm so glad your daughter is doing well now.

I'm a bit late but I thought I'd share my experience with you ... my daughter started school in a foreign country around the same age as yours. For the first couple of months she appeared to be withdrawn and the teacher told me it wasn't working out. I asked the teacher to hang on for another month or so and began to make arrangements to have a native speaker spend some time with her in the evenings to help with homework and just chat.

BUT ... at almost that moment, she just began speaking .... just like that! OK, I'm sure there was more to it than that but it really felt like one day she hadn't a clue what was going on around her and the next she was chatting away with her classmates.

They say that "children are like sponges" and it really felt afterwards that she was exactly that ... absorbing, observing, building self-confidence and then ... BAM she was running around that playground like a native ... and we've never looked back.