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Puppies - yes the cocker...

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  • 22-09-2010 5:09pm
    #1
    Guill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭


    My Dog gave birth to 8 puppies last night. I have them weighed and 7 are 160grm and 1 is 180 grams, i want to monitor their progress but all of them are Jet black with absolutly no destinguishable features! Any ideas how to temp mark them?

    Also, i was wondering about the colouring.
    The pups were bred with a black bitch and golden dog, yet all 8 are black.
    I know this has something to do with genes (i think the gold is reccesive and the bitch is not carrying the gold gene) is this right or is their another explanation, whether it be chance or genes.

    Thanks in advance for advice/tios/education on genes!


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    #2
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    A small dab of tippex on a different spot on each puppy - has worked for us !


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    #3
    Guill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭Guill


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    A small dab of tippex on a different spot on each puppy - has worked for us !


    I was thinking that but not sure if bitch will lick it off or not, bob your uncle!


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    #4
    Zapperzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Zapperzy


    Different colour pieces of ribbon around their necks, if you can't find 8 different colours then put one of each colour on males then the same for females, for example don't put blue on 2 boys, put blue on a girl and a boy so you can say blue male, blue female, red male, red female etc.. It is important that you can distinguish them somehow so you can monitor weights.


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    #5
    Knine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    It is likely that the black cocker spanel is a dominant black and therefore only produces blacks even when mated to a different colour. Some blacks carry the other recessive colours so can produce puppies of different colours. For example we mated two black cockers together and got 8 puppies, 6 were black and 2 were golden. This means that neither parent were a dominant black and they both carried the recessive golden gene.

    I hope I'm making sense.


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    #6
    lorebringer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭lorebringer


    WRT colour - each dog (mother and father) carry 2 genes for colour, dominant and recessive. Some colours are dominant (black in this case) while others are recessive (white, blond etc.). 2 recessive genes are needed to produce a pup of that colour, therefore both parents need to carry the recessive gene. If one parent only carries dominant genes (ie. if the mother has 2 "black" genes) all pups produced from her will be black and if the father has 2 "blond" genes the pups will carry this but not express it (because it is cancelled out - please excuse phrasing - by the mothers black genes).

    If the mother carries both "black" and "blond" genes (and will be expressing the "black" genes) she could produce pups of both colours depending on the fathers colour genes.

    Hope that explains it.

    On telling the pups apart - coloured ribbon (or wool) is your best bet with a litter of that size. Just be sure to clip the ends so that there are not random stingy bits that the pups could chew or swallow.


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    #7
    Rabbitandcavy
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Rabbitandcavy


    The bitch could be BB and the male Bb, so you get all black puppies but the puppies genotypes would be BB, Bb, BB, Bb. So in other words the bitch (BB) is just carrying black and when bred to the golden cocker spaniel, who must be carrying black too, which would make him (Bb), you can only get black puppies, 50% of the puppies, if bred with a golden cocker spaniel or back to the father, will produce goldens.


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    #8
    tk123
    Registered Users Posts: 14,045 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    pics!! pics!!!!


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    #9
    Guill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭Guill


    my pics are 4mb, anyone know how to compress them to 1?


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    #10
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Rabbitandcavy wrote: »
    The bitch could be BB and the male Bb, so you get all black puppies but the puppies genotypes would be BB, Bb, BB, Bb. So in other words the bitch (BB) is just carrying black and when bred to the golden cocker spaniel, who must be carrying black too, which would make him (Bb), you can only get black puppies, 50% of the puppies, if bred with a golden cocker spaniel or back to the father, will produce goldens.
    Surely the male would have to be bb?
    Guill wrote: »
    my pics are 4mb, anyone know how to compress them to 1?
    phototbucket.com is great.


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    #11
    Guill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭Guill


    Mother, father and pups...


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    #12
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    Rabbitandcavy wrote: »
    50% of the puppies, if bred with a golden cocker spaniel or back to the father, will produce goldens.

    While I know that the concept is that line breeding is the best way to ensure genotype on a dog, and that in “Genetics - An Introduction for Dog Breeders” J Isabell describes the best line breeding as being the successful grandfather to the most successful granddaughter because it is only in the dog's old age that his genetic strengths and weaknesses are known, I still look at it and think: and we wonder why pure breed dogs have so many health problems?


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    #13
    sassychick
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭sassychick


    Omg so small and so cute:)Well done to mammy:)


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    #14
    moving_home
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭moving_home


    wow the parents are stunning!! and the pups are so cute.
    best of luck with them! if you are stuck for homes let me know but doubt you will be :D:D


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    #15
    yolanda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭yolanda


    Great news! Hope everything went well! :)


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    #16
    Seesee
    Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Seesee


    Hi, the pups are so tiny. Congratulations to all. Have you homes lined up for any of them? I live with my family in Dublin 9 and we are on the lookout for a dog, youngest child is 4. Are yours raised with children? Let me know if you are planning to sell any and would consider us. thanks.


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    #17
    Morganna
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Morganna


    black is a recesive gene ,so the golden boy must have been carrying the black gene also.As two recessives make a dominant gene.To get black pups both parents must be carrying the black gene,and as your bitch is black,then the sire of pups must be carrying the black gene also.


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    #18
    Morganna
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Morganna


    Knine wrote: »
    It is likely that the black cocker spanel is a dominant black and therefore only produces blacks even when mated to a different colour. Some blacks carry the other recessive colours so can produce puppies of different colours. For example we mated two black cockers together and got 8 puppies, 6 were black and 2 were golden. This means that neither parent were a dominant black and they both carried the recessive golden gene.

    I hope I'm making sense.
    Black is recessive so there for both parents must be carrying the black gene to get blacks.i have been breeding black gsds since the 1970s.


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    #19
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭lrushe


    Morganna wrote: »
    Black is recessive so there for both parents must be carrying the black gene to get blacks.i have been breeding black gsds since the 1970s.

    It is a general rule that darker pigment is usually dominant. I see what you're saying about the GSD and it can vary from breed to breed but it could also just be a case that the genes for the black colouration in GS lies on the same strand of DNA for more recessive traits therefore appears more recessive.


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