High % of Failed businesses

Dr.Silly

anyone else think so,
from what I can remember...

there was the toy shop in the meridian.
the greystones Inn (and multiple other tenants perviously)
CD shop over the bridge.
Italian deli beside the CD shop.
The hardware shop opposite that.
Couple of baby shops.
Video Shop.

There's definetely alot more I think ?

MyPerfectCousin

1. It would help if you would say what your point is
2. One could easily make a longer list of Greystones businesses that have not failed
3. However, "according to Dun & Bradstreet and INC. magazine, 33% of all new businesses fail within the first six months. Fifty percent of new businesses fail within their first two years of operation and 75% fail within the first three years." That's in the US, but I would assume the rate isn't all that different in Ireland (and not just Greystones)
4. The hardware shop was there for many years as Evans Hardware, and then later as Gremma, which moved to Shankill I think
5. Video shops are an endangered species. Blockbuster in the US (which used to own Xtravision until it sold it off last year) is filing for bankruptcy this week

Dr.Silly

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

1. It would help if you would say what your point is

My point is, given the amount of businesses in Greystones, I thought it was a high proportion that were closing down. Alot higher than the likes of blackrock for example.

MyPerfectCousin

Dr.Silly wrote: »

My point is, given the amount of businesses in Greystones, I thought it was a high proportion that were closing down. Alot higher than the likes of blackrock for example.

Maybe it is. But some of the examples you gave were from 5 years ago or more. It would make more sense if you used examples all from this year (or so).

I guess my point would be:

--It's the worst recession in 20 years, of course businesses are failing

--Greystones has always seemed to be a hard place for a new small retail business to succeed, even in boom times.

Merrilady

I would be interested in hearing opinions on why people think the retail businesses in Greystones are not succeding.

The village seemes busy enough at the weekends and later in the week, do people just not shop in greystones ?

As a member of the community I like to buy locally, however more often than not I have to go to Dundrum / Arklow / Dublin.

RosieJoe

Greystones is not the only place suffering from closing businesses. All you have to do is look at Bray and Dun Laoire to see the common trend.

I have to agree with MyPerfectCousin. I think people should be optimistic about new businesses starting up, like the flower shop and the wine shop, rather than negative in discussing closing businesses.

GingerDave

Merrilady wrote: »

I would be interested in hearing opinions on why people think the retail businesses in Greystones are not succeding.

The village seemes busy enough at the weekends and later in the week, do people just not shop in greystones ?

As a member of the community I like to buy locally, however more often than not I have to go to Dundrum / Arklow / Dublin.

I think alot of it is to do with rent demands. High rents means high fixed costs = high prices= no value for money= limited trade. I have money to spend but find no value in the village.

Property is down 50% from peak, how much has rent fallen?
Its the same old story landlords value property/rent on want price they need, not what price the market is actually at.

loyatemu

people don't really shop for anything other than local grocery-type stuff in Greystones as there just isn't the range of shops. Its not a traditional market town, more an overgrown village. However in the case of some of the ones you mention:

the toy shop in the meridian.

was too small to compete with the likes of Smyths and Argos - small toy shops are always going to struggle.

the greystones Inn

its a badly designed building in a bad location - people don't want to drink there.

CD shop over the bridge.

has been gone for a good few years now, but record shops in general are doomed and are closing down everywhere.

Video Shop

the whole chain went into liquidation, and like record shops, video rental is on its way out as a viable concept (in brick-and-mortar shops at least).

Dr.Silly

RosieJoe wrote: »

Greystones is not the only place suffering from closing businesses. All you have to do is look at Bray and Dun Laoire to see the common trend.

I have to agree with MyPerfectCousin. I think people should be optimistic about new businesses starting up, like the flower shop and the wine shop, rather than negative in discussing closing businesses.

It's not negativity RosieJoe, it's just reality unfortunately.
As stated in another thread, I think the new flower shop will last a year.
I don't want it to last that long, but I think that's the reality, and I don't actually put 100% blame of that to the recession at all.
There is a fine line between passion for a business which overshadows the customers needs

d'Oracle

People talking optimistically about new businesses on an internet forum is not going to make ANY difference about the performance of said business.

I think we can do with out the PC tut-tutism and let people express an opinion without having to bear the absurd disapproval that I'm seeing here recently.
At the end of the day I'm sure the folks in the new flower shop could care less about optimistic Internet posts. What they want is your money in exchange for pleasant smelling plant matter.

Also, this is not just about the recession, businesses in particular locations in Greystones have always had trouble, the recession has not been going on that long.

Dr. Silly, businesses down by the railway bridge have failed a lot over the years. I suspect that it is due to the fact that they are off the main street and so people really don't see them that much.
Other than that MyPerfectCousins points (2-5 anyway, I think 1. was for ironic value or something) are very valid observations.

GingerDave

A pawnbrokers would go down a treat on the high street!

Seriously, there are a lot people in Greystones who like to "play at shop". Then they realise the numbers don't stack up.

It can take 20 years to build a good strong local business, most people don't do the research, look at the detail or do a decent business plan!! And if they did, with the high costs involved and the turnover required to just breakeven, they wouldn't even bother openning in the first place.

Dr.Silly

GingerDave wrote: »

It can take 20 years to build a good strong local business, most people don't do the research, look at the detail or do a decent business plan!! And if they did, with the high costs involved and the turnover required to just breakeven, they wouldn't even bother openning in the first place.

spot on

mikedragon32

Optimistic?

I wonder at the naivety of someone opening the FOURTH flowershop in the village and one of god knows how many wine retailers in Greystones.

Of course we should be supporting local businesses, but there is a limit!

Gingerdave is spot on. Some folks like to play at shop.

loyatemu

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Optimistic?

I wonder at the naivety of someone opening the FOURTH flowershop in the village

is it the fourth? there were 2 on Church Rd, but one has closed since - where are the others?

mikedragon32

loyatemu wrote: »

is it the fourth? there were 2 on Church Rd, but one has closed since - where are the others?

By the train station, Meridian, next to Jeeves (maybe that one's closed, if it is, then it brings even more doubt into the wisdom in opening another!) and now the new one in Moran's.

danjo

Greystones has always been a dormitory town. Initially it was a retirement area for senior military people.
Today most of the inhabitants work in the city and commute. Hence they purchase most items outside the town.
The future for Greystones, in my opinion, is a centre of excellence of good food at reasonable prices. We have many retaurants doing quite well despite the recession. I do think the prices could be reduced to entice more business.
Greystones is not suffering any more than neighbouring towns and I believe has better prospects than most.One thing we could do is to speed up the removal of the shuttering around the harbour to improve the environment for locals and visitors.

d'Oracle

danjo wrote: »

Greystones has always been a dormitory town. Initially it was a retirement area for senior military people.
Today most of the inhabitants work in the city and commute. Hence they purchase most items outside the town.

What are ya talking about, chap.
Greystones is text book. Lethal.

egorski

greystones if far from a text book Irish town.....I just moved from Blackrock and it is seriously dead compared to Greystonesat the weekend. I think that cheaper/more availabe taxis, Greystones population increases have changed the game.Its well known that new business's have a massive failure rate, then again people start mad businesses for all the wrong reaons - however - the perception that Greystones has a higher failure rate than anywhere is else is most likely wrong because we are a relatively small community (compared to Dublin) and any change is discussed at length. In fact, I think that new businesses in Greystones would have a better chance than the majority of most places in Ireland - whatever those odds are......

Bettyboop

Heatons does well because its cheap we need more cheap shops not expensive ones but maybe that would lower the tone of the place for some:D We are in a recession and how many flower shops and coffee shops do we need?Boutiques and expensive baby shops are alright for some but a lot of people I know me included look for bargains.Bring in Dunnes Stores I say;)

danjo

I would be very surprised if Heaton's are even covering their costs not to mind making a profit. Yes they are cheap but Cheap sales equals low profit margins. Just imagine the rental, staff and energy costs. Notice they no longer employ a security person but they would generally have about three staff.
I don't think boutiques will do well but there is a market for flowers but maybe not large enough to sustain them all.

Merrilady

Interesting opinions from everyone.
So are we all looking for value for money
Silly question, of course we are.

A friend of mine enquired about the liitel building beside the dart, next door to the flower shop. The rent was ridiculous, something like €25/€30k per year. This means whoever takes it over is paying 2-2.5k per month .. seems steep to me. This would mean a turnover of possibly 3-3.5k per month, or 1k per week to be breaking even !!
Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

Anyhooooooo, just wondering out loud, am not a businesswoman so I'm sure my thoughts are black and white

Ok rant over ... for now :-)

Dr.Silly

Merrilady wrote: »

Interesting opinions from everyone.
So are we all looking for value for money
Silly question, of course we are.

A friend of mine enquired about the liitel building beside the dart, next door to the flower shop. The rent was ridiculous, something like €25/€30k per year. This means whoever takes it over is paying 2-2.5k per month .. seems steep to me. This would mean a turnover of possibly 3-3.5k per month, or 1k per week to be breaking even !!
Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

Anyhooooooo, just wondering out loud, am not a businesswoman so I'm sure my thoughts are black and white

Ok rant over ... for now :-)

There is no point in talking about breaking even, who wants to break even ? Breaking even means going bust.

at 2.5k rent per month, generating a turnover of 3.5k per month will not even break even.
insurance, phone, electricity, rates, staff, etc, etc .....

loyatemu

Merrilady wrote: »

Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

tell that to the owners of the charlesland pub, or the jackie skelley's unit. It appears some landlords would prefer to have their property sit empty than actual receive some rent for it.

Merrilady

Dr.Silly wrote: »

There is no point in talking about breaking even, who wants to break even ? Breaking even means going bust.

at 2.5k rent per month, generating a turnover of 3.5k per month will not even break even.
insurance, phone, electricity, rates, staff, etc, etc .....

Exactly - who could do that turnover at the moment.
I also agree with Loyatemu - it just seems madness doesnt it

It would be interesting to see what kind of businesses people would like to see in the village.
Personally, I would love to see the old cinema revamped and become a working cinema again

d'Oracle

Merrilady wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what kind of businesses people would like to see in the village.
Personally, I would love to see the old cinema revamped and become a working cinema again

I'd like to see that be a pub.

transport

One of the main reasons as to the lack of people spending in greystones, is due to the simple fact of HAVING TO PAY FOR PARKING, this only drives people out of the town, and over to the big retail parks where the parking is FREE, until the chamber of commerce, and all the local businesses stand up and demand for the return of free parking, people will continue to go elsewhere.

Cheeky Chops

I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.

ciaran67

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.

Cheeky Chops for Mayor!

Greystoner

Bettyboop wrote: »

Heatons does well because its cheap we need more cheap shops not expensive ones but maybe that would lower the tone of the place for some:D We are in a recession and how many flower shops and coffee shops do we need?Boutiques and expensive baby shops are alright for some but a lot of people I know me included look for bargains.Bring in Dunnes Stores I say;)

Plug time!: If you are looking for baby and children's bargains, come along to the tabletop sale at St. Patricks next Sat, 2.30-5.30pm!!!

Cheeky Chops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeky Chops
I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.


Cheeky Chops for Mayor!

LOL! But I would have to become a politician and mix with politicians ... :eek:

Bettyboop

Greystoner wrote: »

Plug time!: If you are looking for baby and children's bargains, come along to the tabletop sale at St. Patricks next Sat, 2.30-5.30pm!!!

will be there
Thanks