Grounded by the OPW

Kashkai

Warning - Rant :mad:

While I live in the countryside in Kildare, I've found it harder and harder to find a place to fly my planes. I was using a local farmer's field (thats in grass and has no animals and therefore I wasn't ruining any crops or scaring livestock) but I was ordered out as I was tresspassing. Ok fair enough it was his field but what harm was I doing?

Then I tried to fly my Supercub into and out of my back garden (I have a 3/4 acre site so I have room) but then one of the neighbours voiced his "concern" about the possibility of my plane crashing into his house. As I never flew my plane anywhere near his house, this was a pile of b.s. However this guy was born and raised in his mothers house next door to his own and he thinks he owns the entire feckin road, e.g. he'll comment on "Your grass is getting very long Dave, why don't you cut it. Wouldn't want to bring down the tone of the area" - no kidding!

Then I thought about the Phoenix Park in Dublin close to where I work. So I've been getting up at 6.15am to be in the park for around 7am in a nice quiet and fairly isolated spot where I was pretty sure I wouldn't be annoying anyone, i.e. animals, joggers etc. So I've been flying out of this spot for about a month and having a great time as it has a cycle path (never seen anyone use it though) that I use for a runway and there's no one around who wants to chat about my planes while I'm trying to concentrate on not ploughing them into the ground.

So I was having a great time getting my flight time in before work until this morning. Just after I'd parked my car and taken the plane and tx out of the boot, an OPW car pulled up behind me and a guy gets out and asks me what I'm doing (remember I have a plane in one hand and a tx in the other so I would have thought it was obvious but....). I tell him nice and politely that I'm with Al Qeada and I'm about to fly my highly dangerous foam Supercub into the American Embassy - actually I didn't but perhaps I should have done considering the lecture that followed. He said I couldn't fly the plane here as I needed a permit. I said what harm was I doing as there's no one around. He said if people saw me flying the plane, then everyone would want to do it (that argument was so ridiculous that I almost laughed in his face). He said there was a designated flying spot the far side of the Papal Cross but that I'd have to be a member of the club that flew there. Now to me that spot has more potential for causing grief as:
(A) there are usually a large number of people in that area who could be hit by a plane thats out of control and
(B) the American embassy is close by and they might not take to kindly to rc planes overflying their turf.

Being the good citizen that I am, I put the plane back in the car while this guy was giving me the "I don't make the rules" line. However I was very tempted to hang around for a while and sneak in a flight before work but I'm sure he'd have made a return visit to see if I'd done exactly that.

Now where can I fly in this over regulated country of ours?

PCPhoto

and you'll probably find that you have to pay for a permit.

I'd say give it a couple of weeks and return to Phoenix Park..... or go back to the farmers land and ask for permission - maybe offer €10 a month or something.

Cookie_Monster

Join the club surely is the answer there? You'll get a permit and get to meet lots of nice people with a similar hobby

Also the American Embassy is in Ballsbridge

Poly

Cookie is right, join a club and fly off a designated strip. Safer and better craic too.

Kashkai

Funnily enough, I went to the Park last winter to see this club and its members in action prior to getting my first plane. I was looking for some general advice and tips, however they practically laughed at me when I told them of the planes I was considering, i.e. a Parkzone Radian glider and a Supercub (both since bought btw) as they considered foam models to be "toys" compared to their gas powered balsa wood models.

I prefer to fly on my own as I don't have to worry about a mid air or someone trying to show off by buzzing my cub or Radian with their plane (this happened while I was flying my plane on holiday in Kerry by someone flying a model spitfire. I had the last laugh when his battery discharged completely and he ploughed it into the ground while attempting a deadstick landing).

Flying my planes is my way of relaxing for a while and I don't really want to do it as a social outting.

ps I meant the American Ambassador's residence which is in the Park

Cookie_Monster

fair enough.

On the beach maybe? Bull Island, though the kite surfers may get uppity about it...

coolwings

A certain number of modellers get tunnel vision which produces a bad reaction when confronted with a different model.
So you get nitro engine heads that look down on all things electric, or glider heads that frown on a motor glider, etc.
This goes on with all things mechanical, just look at the religious folowing motorcycle brands enjoy.
Pay no heed to them. But if they put you off that particular club, then that's ok too.
You might consider talking to another farmer and asking for permission to fly from a field. They are helpful when asked first, but insurance might be an issue. The club membership covers the insurance problem which is an advantage clubs have which you might balance against the attitude you encountered.

Bruthal

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Funnily enough, I went to the Park last winter to see this club and its members in action prior to getting my first plane. I was looking for some general advice and tips, however they practically laughed at me when I told them of the planes I was considering, i.e. a Parkzone Radian glider and a Supercub (both since bought btw) as they considered foam models to be "toys" compared to their gas powered balsa wood models.

I prefer to fly on my own as I don't have to worry about a mid air or someone trying to show off by buzzing my cub or Radian with their plane (this happened while I was flying my plane on holiday in Kerry by someone flying a model spitfire. I had the last laugh when his battery discharged completely and he ploughed it into the ground while attempting a deadstick landing).

Flying my planes is my way of relaxing for a while and I don't really want to do it as a social outting.

ps I meant the American Ambassador's residence which is in the Park

I did a lot of flying in the park in the 80`s and 90`s and it was great, but there is always the (minor)element who feel they are the elite, like they have a gift because they can fly a plane around, or even more so with the helis, and laughing at your choice of aircraft says it all. Silly and naive. Although this kind of attitude probably exists in everything around us. Permission from farmers is the best bet,

Kashkai

I suppose that at my age, I should know better than to let one group of nitro snobs put me off club flying but after getting the brush off last winter from that crowd in the Park, I set my mind against ever joining a club and having to put up with an elitist attitude.

In addition, while I've been flying for about 7 months now, I still regard myself as a noob (albeit an improving one) and trying to fly amongst a mini squadron of nitro models would not be my idea of relaxation either.

My main gripe is with the OPW and their rules and regs. Like for heavens sake, it was a darkish, damp 7am in an isolated area of the Phoenix Park with not even a bird in sight so what harm was I doing?. I would have been out of there by 7.30 anyways as my 3 lipos only give 10 minutes flight time each in the Cub, which is why I still prefer my Radian glider as I've gotten 50 minutes+ out of one battery while using thermals and the wind to stay aloft.

I joined an online rc aircraft enthuasiasts group a couple of months ago (as they didn't have an atitude towards foamies or noobs!!) and they can't believe that I have so much trouble getting a place to fly my planes. These guys are based worldwide from teh UK to Quatar to New Zealand to the States and they fly in their local parks, from farmer's fields and from racecourses. After relaying my experiences to them, they say they wouldn't be in a hurry to come over here for some flight time.

T-Square

I used to fly a Hirobo Shuttle TS out of the flying field behind the cross.

The "Club" is a load of rubbish, and the people are quite weird.

To avoid further problems Dave, join the club and fly in the designated area,
I live beside the park, and the walk/run paths are used heavily, so don't go using it as a run way, or get into grief.

The Doktor

Id a similar problem trying to find a spot to fly heli.
Though i have permission to fly in a farmers field, it wasnt suitable (somewhere to land)
I was flying in the park for a while. if you go right around to the opposite side of the field where the papal cross is, there is an area where you can park the car. Ive often seen members of the club parking there and walking across to the cross itself, where they fly from. But i stayed up nearer the car park end and never had any issue.
If you look at the park website it says this is the "model aeroplane" area. it doesnt mention clubs.

i had the same snob attitude from the people in that club, and have vowed never to be involved with them in any way. Im involved in 2 other clubs (model car, plastic model) and they are so open and friendly and helpful to new members I couldnt possibly get involved with such a closed minded unfriendly bunch.

Another suggestion is to try and find some common ground near you. There is a spot where i live that is common ground, belongs to the people of the village where i now fly. The grass is short, 2 mins drive from the house, and there is never anyone there!

Bruthal

A problem with flying outside the designated areas near clubs can occur if flying with 35mhz as you risk either shooting someone down who is in the designated areas or getting shot down yourself. Even if you fly in the designated area alone at 6.30 am the park rangers might still come asking to see permits/insurance etc.

The Doktor

robbie7730 wrote: »

A problem with flying outside the designated areas near clubs can occur if flying with 35mhz as you risk either shooting someone down who is in the designated areas or getting shot down yourself. Even if you fly in the designated area alone at 6.30 am the park rangers might still come asking to see permits/insurance etc.

Yeah ur right there... i should have said above that i wouldnt fly at all if there was any other flyers around, even though im on 2.4ghz.
Though i was flying most days for a few weeks at different times and no one came near me.

Kashkai

The spot I was flying in is located about halfway between St. Mary's hospital and the Magazine Fort adjacent to the Chapelizod road. This is probably the most isolated part of the Park, well away from cars, joggers, cyclists etc. I say this because on the 12 occasions I flew there, the only person I met was that Park Ranger at 7am yesterday morning. Obviously I wouldn't land my plane on a cycle path thats in use and I always do a "runway check" prior to take off and landing to make sure its clear.

I operate on a 2.4ghz transmitter that doesn't interfere with anyone else as this equipment scans for free bands.

Doktor, what common ground do you use? I live about 20 minutes from the Curragh and I think that is commonage but I can't find anything online to prove this. As I work in Dublin, I could only use it at the weekend when it would probably be in use by others as well. I see from the MACI.ie website that there is a model flying club from Newbridge who fly out of the "Little Curragh" and that they have an event on next Sunday. Must make my way down for a look see. Maybe this crowd will be a bit friendlier.

The Doktor

Have a look at the maps here... http://www.phoenixpark.ie/maps/
On upper glen rd past the hospital there is a small area where cars park. Park here and walk into the 15 acres area towards the papal cross. There is one lone tree just in past the bank to keep cars out... go out past the tree and fly there. Its the designated area for model planes, but u are flying from the opposite end.

It doesnt mention anywhere on the phoenix park site that u have to be in a club, it just says its the "model aeroplane area".

The commonage i use is in ashbourne. About the size of 2 football pitches.
And youre right about the curragh, it is commonage.

coolwings

My understanding is that the Phoenix Park authorities give a license to fly models only to members of the club, and this is why the Park Rangers check club cards, it's part of their job to protect the park authorities on insurance-public liability matters.

The Curragh is different. It is commonage and not a park, but is owned by the state. I forget which state body. The freedom is freedom to roam, and the commonage allows certain parties to graze stock. But it's a protected open natural reserve, and even the grass types (rare plant varieties) are considered by those who manage it. A legal permit has also to be got to fly there and that club has one for the Curragh.

Kashkai

The Curragh is managed by the Department of Defence.

Ok so there might be some eejits who would fly planes over the heads of walkers, kids etc and risk crashing their planes into people and seriously injuring them, but I'm in my 40's (and so fairly sensible), I fly at the crack of dawn when no one is around and only in wide open spaces away from houses etc so I'm not being a hazard to anyone.

Perhaps I'm being utterly pig headed, but I find it completely ridiculous that I can't fly a plane in such a large open space such as the Phoenix Park/Curragh without a permit/licence. This has to be the most over regulated state since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Kashkai

The Doktor wrote: »

Have a look at the maps here... http://www.phoenixpark.ie/maps/
On upper glen rd past the hospital there is a small area where cars park. Park here and walk into the 15 acres area towards the papal cross. There is one lone tree just in past the bank to keep cars out... go out past the tree and fly there. Its the designated area for model planes, but u are flying from the opposite end.

It doesnt mention anywhere on the phoenix park site that u have to be in a club, it just says its the "model aeroplane area".

The commonage i use is in ashbourne. About the size of 2 football pitches.
And youre right about the curragh, it is commonage.

Doktor,

I had a look at that map but I don't follow your directions. I fly/flew from the area marked as "the Pavillions" off Military Road.

Can you please clarify if the area you are talking about is designated as the "Football grounds" to the left of Acres Road on the fifteen acres part of the map.

T-Square

This is the flying field, the small circle in the center is the helicopter area.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Phoenix+Park,+Dublin+8,+County+Dublin+Corporation,+Ireland&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.557552,114.169922&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FdNBLgMd9qOf_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Phoenix+Park,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&ll=53.3561,-6.340646&spn=0.001173,0.003484&t=h&z=19

With all due respect ProsperousDave, I have flown in a few places in Dublin, and there is always soom eejit walking his dog at 5:45am, or some doofus with their pitch and put clubs who wandering around who will happily walk within 10 feet of a flying-hovering-death-machine

Sure at one time, ten kids turned up at 7am, all on scooters, wtf?
I thought there was something wrong with the helo, thinking the engine note was changing/ perhaps disintegrating, so I landed, and looked behind me, and there was all there.

So basically, you have to align yourself, and use the designated flying field.

Models of all types can cause serious harm to people and property.

The Doktor

Dave, the spot that tsquare shows above is basically where ive flown. Any time ive seen the club out, they are much closer to the papal cross.
I never fly if there are other flyers out, as im a bit like yourself in that i prefer to fly alone. (the stress of keeping an eye on other aircraft is too much)

Kashkai

Thanks Guys for clarifying that.

As far as I can recall from my days jogging in the Park, that area is always full of deer and I'd hate to have a mid air with Rudolph - I'd never be able to face the kids again.:D

I went to the Curragh yesterday to check out possible flying spots but it was a bit too breezy for my Supercub (brushed motor just can't hack any kind of wind). However I was treated to the army conducting a parachute exercise for about an hour with 6 soldiers jumping at a time out of an Augusta helicopter. A family of walkers didn't have the cop on to stay out of the lz and they wandered right into the middle of the drop zone to have a good view of things. An army jeep had to drive out to them to have a word, i.e. tell them to move out of the area.

privilegue

I just posted a thread as well on where I can fly without a club. I am an electric flyer as well with the difference that all planes I fly are all self build / designed. And no I am not going to join some snobby (I know all better club).

Quandry

Maybe all the snobs left in the two years between this thread and your thread bump

privilegue

Maybe they have / maybe they havent I guess I have to go over again and find out. Are you a member there right now Quandry?

Quandry

Hi yes, often flying on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon with some great guys

There's real characters in the Leinster that is for sure but I have met some from other clubs also over the years

CaptainFreedom

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Funnily enough, I went to the Park last winter to see this club and its members in action prior to getting my first plane. I was looking for some general advice and tips, however they practically laughed at me when I told them of the planes I was considering, i.e. a Parkzone Radian glider and a Supercub (both since bought btw) as they considered foam models to be "toys" compared to their gas powered balsa wood models.

Odd, my father is in the LMFC (the club in the park),and regularly brings 3-4 foam planes and is neither scoffed at or laughed at. You must have spoken to the wrong people. Better to find some club officials to begin with

The official flying times are Sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons, but provided you are a paid club member you can fly in the designated area anytime you wish

Kashkai

CaptainFreedom wrote: »

Odd, my father is in the LMFC (the club in the park),and regularly brings 3-4 foam planes and is neither scoffed at or laughed at. You must have spoken to the wrong people. Better to find some club officials to begin with

The official flying times are Sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons, but provided you are a paid club member you can fly in the designated area anytime you wish

Yes perhaps I spoke to some not so nice individuals on that occasion. You're incorrect about having to be a club member to fly there though as it is the "model flying" patch, open to all. It is not for the exclusive use of the LMFC.

CaptainFreedom

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

You're incorrect about having to be a club member to fly there though as it is the "model flying" patch, open to all. It is not for the exclusive use of the LMFC.

Hope your never involved of some kind of accident involving a member of the public if you are a non member, club insurance has its benefits

Kashkai

CaptainFreedom wrote: »

Hope your never involved of some kind of accident involving a member of the public if you are a non member, club insurance has its benefits

I have insurance, just not with that club. I was pointing out that the Phoenix Park patch is not for the exclusive use of the LMFC;)

Xpro

I also have 2 electric planes and i fly them in Curragh. Im not part of any club nor i want to join any.
As yourself i preffer to go out on my own and have a bit of craic.
Curragh is huge, theres all sorts of activites going on, ( from motocrossers, quads, people learnng to drive cars,etc,etc) and im sure flying small rc planes certainly wont be a problem. Theres also plenty of lads flying about that are not part of any clubs, if you go out over the weekend you will find out yourself.
I generaly fly just off the motorway on the right hand side just after the racecourse, which is close to a flying club but still distant enough not to intervene with the club. I have been spotted by park rangers and never had any trouble. Grass is very short and makes the landings smooth and easy.

Just go out and have a bit of fun, you will love curragh:)

Skatedude

On a similer note, How do i join the phoenix park club?
I've sent a few emails to the info@leinstermodelflyingclub.ie but no replies?

I really want to get back into rc models. but cant till i sort out membership