Suggested Call to introduce Conscription to sort out Irelands Wayward youth?

iceage

Just listening to 2 FM..seems that there are plenty out there who believe a conscripted stint with the Army would sort out Irelands knife carrying, disrespectful, and generally unpleasant youth of today.

Thoughts.

concussion

Indeed - lets get the scumbags battle-fit and trained with military weapons.

who the fug

Conscription worked for the Krays

Dub6Kevin

"Bring back conscription"?

When did we have conscription in Ireland?

Zambia

iceage wrote: »

Just listening to 2 FM..seems that there are plenty out there who believe a conscripted stint with the Army would sort out Irelands knife carrying, disrespectful, and generally unpleasant youth of today.

Thoughts.

Yes well in a time when there are more applicants than places. I think its niave.

iceage

Fair point Dublin6kev, an error on my behalf. Should Ireland Consider the introduction then?

Jesus...women suggesting that kids/teens SHOULD carry a weapon (she was attacked previously) :eek:

iceage

Zambia232 wrote: »

Yes well in a time when there are more applicants than places. I think its niave.

Of course this is a known Zambia. Anyone that can tune into 2 FM do do. A huge response and interest in this subject.

seamus

Conscription worked really well for the American's in 'Nam. Gave them a loyal, honourable and elite army didn't it?

Forcing people to work in the Army will not "put manners on them". They will see it as a job to be done and that's it. Army work is something of a vocation - very few people who are forced into it or who end up there by default grow to enjoy it and grow to become good officers.

At the end of the day, any scumbags will return home to their families after their minimum servcie period, trained in unarmed combat and without the hierarchical military structure to keep them in line.

gbee

On one hand yes, on another hand no.

Life mostly flows downwards, so they will bring down our fine army's reputation, just look at the respect the Gardaí have after they have been seen chatting and joking with these scum bags. AND don't feed me the community service line BS.

HOWEVER, I think every 16 year old should to national service instead of the 'gap year' or the transition year ~ as you may know this year was invented to force boys to have an extra year's education so as to give the the girls equality.

Some may forget that Boys left school in 5th-year and girls in 6th year, under a raft of equality measures the boy's got hopped on ~ I'm sure historians can make a case for this being a significant event in the development of social unrest in our teenage boys and a social change that may be baffling some scholars.

gbee

[QUOTE=seamus;68153392 Army work is something of a vocation - very few people who are forced into it or who end up there by default grow to enjoy it and grow to become good officers..[/QUOTE]

Sorry, factually incorrect, one has to make a career choice to join the Army or the Cadets.

There is no path for an enlisted solider to become an officer, let alone a good officer. Occasionally there are exceptions to fill emergency situations, shortfalls and a new scheme has been introduced to allow select personnel from the ranks to go forward for cadet ships.

Your post makes it look like a private joining the army can become an officer, that is not the case and those where it happened and happens are exceptions.

Army entrance has certain requirements, but by Cadet application requirements they are very low.

One would have to be bad to not get into the army, but one has to be very good indeed to get into the cadets.

Two very distinctive career paths.

onlyrocknroll

Dub6Kevin wrote: »

"Bring back conscription"?

When did we have conscription in Ireland?

In that imaginary happy time when they was no crime and the youth were respectful and there was no loud music.

seamus

gbee wrote: »

Your post makes it look like a private joining the army can become an officer, that is not the case and those where it happened and happens are exceptions.

Apologies, I know very little about military ranks. I was trying to decide what you call a qualified Irish Army person. They're not marines...

concussion

gbee wrote: »

There is no path for an enlisted solider to become an officer, let alone a good officer.

He didn't specify commissioned officer, if you take his post to mean non-commissioned officer he's quite correct

/pedant.

seamus wrote: »

Apologies, I know very little about military ranks. I was trying to decide what you call a qualified Irish Army person. They're not marines...

Soldier is good

gbee

concussion wrote: »

He didn't specify commissioned officer, if you take his post to mean non-commissioned officer he's quite correct

It's the same thing, there are all non commissioned up to 2/Lt. There is one exception to that, The Sergeant Major who is still an NCO but has Officer status, eats with the officers and wears the officers uniforms.

gbee

concussion wrote: »

Soldier is good

Yup, the Army is great today, integrated rapid reaction ... I know there are a few gaps but ...

And we are part of the Nordic Army for the last two years .... did you know?

Some see this as proper soldering.

concussion

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say it's the same thing. Commissioned officers and NCO's have completely different jobs and responsibilities.

gbee

concussion wrote: »

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say it's the same thing. Commissioned officers and NCO's have completely different jobs and responsibilities.

It's the same thing with regard to the career path.

If I join the army today, I can become an NCO, Corporal after basic training even. I am then in line for a Sergeant's post as they become available and I pass the exams.

I then have a fair wait for further promotion but the paths can diverge and I can become a QMS, CS, BQCS and a very few opportunities to go to the top, the Sergeant Major. This is a path available to all who join the army, and could be achieved in the course of the career.

All are non commissioned and do not have a special pass to the cadetships, as one who has passed basic training in the army, they are all considered the same and get the same consideration should they make an application for the cadetships.

As a cadet I get commissioned as a Lieutenant either one or two pips. In five years I will become a Captain. From here on in it is by selection and competition ~ in other words I could remain a captain all my life.

But if I win the competitions I become a Commandant, and now the competition becomes really hard as there are far fewer places to become available and competition is strong.

concussion

gbee wrote: »

It's the same thing with regard to the career path.

If I join the army today, I can become an NCO, Corporal after basic training even.

If by 'after' you mean several years as a 3* PTE, successfully complete a 6 month PNCO course and are reccomended for promotion then sure, you can be a corporal after recruit training.

petergfiffin

iceage wrote: »

Just listening to 2 FM..seems that there are plenty out there who believe a conscripted stint with the Army would sort out Irelands knife carrying, disrespectful, and generally unpleasant youth of today.

Thoughts.

This kind of rubbish never ceases to annoy me (the conscription thing, not your post )

Serving your country is something which should be seen as a privilege and open only to the best and brightest who really want to do the job. This country has a fantastic tradition and reputation abroad for the very simple reason that positions have always been at a premium so the Army/Navy etc could be very very picky.

The only some of these little scrotes should find their way into the army is as part of a live fire exercise!! Maybe it's time parents started raising their own kids and stopped expecting everybody else to do their job for them!

tac foley

petergfiffin wrote: »

This kind of rubbish never ceases to annoy me (the conscription thing, not your post )

Serving your country is something which should be seen as a privilege and open only to the best and brightest who really want to do the job. This country has a fantastic tradition and reputation abroad for the very simple reason that positions have always been at a premium so the Army/Navy etc could be very very picky.

The only some of these little scrotes should find their way into the army is as part of a live fire exercise!! Maybe it's time parents started raising their own kids and stopped expecting everybody else to do their job for them!

+1

tac

iceage

I have to agree with petergfiffin on this one. The parenting thing of course not the live fire exercises of course.... Well, maybe they could play the part of Ivan or what ever you call them today during Ex's. opportunity to give them a good shoeing on the run through!

dahamster

gbee wrote: »

Some see this as proper soldering.

Looking to join CIS then?

JayEnnis

You can't deny that countries with a years service have lower crime rates.

Look at switzerland, every man over 19 has to serve in the army if deemed fit and has to keep his firearms (Rifle, sidearm, knife) at home. If they aren't deemed fit they have to do some other form of national service.

You don't see everyone in switzerland running around shooting each other even though they have incredibly easy access to guns. Serving in the Army instills a sense of pride for your country and respect for other people. It teaches you that you cannot do or say whatever you want.

punchdrunk

this is a silly idea! :rolleyes:

Poccington

gbee wrote: »

Sorry, factually incorrect, one has to make a career choice to join the Army or the Cadets.

There is no path for an enlisted solider to become an officer, let alone a good officer. Occasionally there are exceptions to fill emergency situations, shortfalls and a new scheme has been introduced to allow select personnel from the ranks to go forward for cadet ships.

There's two paths for an enlisted soldier to become an Officer.

I've worked with Officers who were commissioned from the enlisted ranks and were switched on to bits. For you to say that enlisted men don't make good Officers is just plain lies.

gbee wrote: »

Army entrance has certain requirements, but by Cadet application requirements they are very low.

One would have to be bad to not get into the army, but one has to be very good indeed to get into the cadets.

Sorry, but getting into the Cadets doesn't automatically make you "very good". I've worked with enough Officers through my Unit, YO's Courses, Weapons Courses etc. and I can assure you, the entry requirements for the Cadet School doesn't make everyone there "very good". I've even heard DS' asking YO's "How the **** did you even get commissioned?"

So please, let's not act like Officers or Cadets are a cut above the enlisted ranks because they most certainly aren't.

gbee wrote: »

It's the same thing, there are all non commissioned up to 2/Lt. There is one exception to that, The Sergeant Major who is still an NCO but has Officer status, eats with the officers and wears the officers uniforms.

A Sergeant Major does not have "Officer" status. The BQ wears the superfines too.

PeterIanStaker

petergfiffin wrote: »

This kind of rubbish never ceases to annoy me (the conscription thing, not your post )

Serving your country is something which should be seen as a privilege and open only to the best and brightest who really want to do the job. This country has a fantastic tradition and reputation abroad for the very simple reason that positions have always been at a premium so the Army/Navy etc could be very very picky.

The only some of these little scrotes should find their way into the army is as part of a live fire exercise!! Maybe it's time parents started raising their own kids and stopped expecting everybody else to do their job for them!

Well said that man! This "brainwave" from the Joe Duffy Fan Club annoys me too, because of the reactionary stupidity of it. Oh sure, lets give the little parasites weapons training, then release them back into the wild. Great idea. :rolleyes:
If they were put in a "Boot Camp" scenario where they were beasted senseless morning noon and night and had their spirit broken, without being given weapons or training, then it might teach them respect.

donaghs

Don't think Ireland can afford it, or that we simply would not want to pay for it. In a documentary a good while ago about the British Army (not conscription) I did notice some positive aspects to military training. For many of the young English lads it was the first time they had learned how to make a bed, iron a shirt, shine a shoe, or cook any sort of meal. And probably get out of bed early regularly.

twinytwo

concussion wrote: »

Indeed - lets get the scumbags battle-fit and trained with military weapons.

eh .. no you let the scumbags peel the spuds

Lockstep

twinytwo wrote: »

eh .. no you let the scumbags peel the spuds

All the more practice for when they're peeling...your skin.

oncevotedff

iceage wrote: »

Just listening to 2 FM..seems that there are plenty out there who believe a conscripted stint with the Army would sort out Irelands knife carrying, disrespectful, and generally unpleasant youth of today.

Thoughts.

Hang 'em, flog 'em, throw them in jail and throw away the key. But please don't send the scummy little fcukers to join the DF.:rolleyes:

SIRREX

gbee wrote: »

As a cadet I get commissioned as a Lieutenant either one or two pips. In five years I will become a Captain. From here on in it is by selection and competition ~ in other words I could remain a captain all my life.

But if I win the competitions I become a Commandant, and now the competition becomes really hard as there are far fewer places to become available and competition is strong.

Anyone who is commissioned as an Officer will become a Commandant if they remain in service, it is only when it gets to Lt. Col. that selection comes into it

gbee wrote: »

It's the same thing, there are all non commissioned up to 2/Lt. There is one exception to that, The Sergeant Major who is still an NCO but has Officer status, eats with the officers and wears the officers uniforms.

Bullsh*t! The BSM/RSM does not eat with the officers or have officer status, although the should be afforded the greatest respect.

You have some very strange ideas of they Irish Army and it's rank structure.