Round 15: Singapore Grand Prix

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

What is it, two days til the FIA check out Korea? Should be interesting.

11 of October now, after Suzuka when all the F1 equipment would usually be be on its way, I'm sure the FIA will be under pressure to give it the go ahead even if there are problems

losthorizon

Both Hulkenberg and Sutil have now got 20 second penalties. Could be Massa, Sutil and Hulkenberg.

zeris

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Interesting interview with Bernie, sounds like Korea is touch and go. Disappointed he is still talking about dumping some of the old European races(the only European race they should drop is Valencia). :mad:

Could be Valencia but it does have a contract until 2014. Barcelona is even longer.

Maybe Istanbul. I think the contact runs out next year and Bernie only has to negotiate with himself.

zeris

TheChrisD wrote: »

Hamilton was in front by the time they got to the apex, same goes for the incident between Schumi and whichever Sauber he was racing which had a similar incident.

In my eyes that means whoever had the inside didn't yield sufficiently.

Hamilton may have had his nose in front on the track but I would like a top down shot and a tape measure before I'd say he was closer to the apex than Webber.

I feel the Schumacher-Kobayashi incident isn't comparable as Kobayashi late braked into the corner from behind.

EvilMonkey

zeris wrote: »

Could be Valencia but it does have a contract until 2014. Barcelona is even longer.

Maybe Istanbul. I think the contact runs out next year and Bernie only has to negotiate with himself.

It wont be Valencia, that's the place Bernie loves a local government that are happy to absorb all the costs. Plus it would be admitting that the race is crap dropping it so soon.

Probably be one of the established European circuits.
Turkey is a rare Tilke design that is actually good so hopefully not!

It will probably involve more circuits alternating every second year.

All i know is he said 20 is the max no of events for the calendar. With planned races in USA, Rome, India and who knows where else in the next couple of years they wont all fit in.

losthorizon

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Probably be one of the established European circuits.
Turkey is a rare ok Tilke design that is actually good so hopefully not!

It will probably involve more circuits alternating every second year.

Belgium will be around next season but after that they want to alternate every second season as they are losing huge money.

I reckon Turkey will be gone -no crowds and lack of interest. Ecclectone is vicious. Who would have though we would never have had a French grand Prix?

amacachi

Belgium is losing loads of money? How are they managing that? :S

EvilMonkey

losthorizon wrote: »

Belgium will be around next season but after that they want to alternate every second season as they are losing huge money.

I reckon Turkey will be gone -no crowds and lack of interest. Ecclectone is vicious. Who would have though we would never have had a French grand Prix?

The thing about Turkey is Bernie is the backer, so its hard to know if he would drop it. If he is making money personally from it he probably wont!

amacachi wrote: »

Belgium is losing loads of money? How are they managing that? :S

Probably having to give most of the money they make to FOM :pac:

zeris

Doing a quick Google gives me this for contract expiration dates.

Bahrain 2016
Australia 2015
Malaysia 2015
China Rolling contract
Turkey 2011
Spain 2016
Monaco 2020
Canada 2014
Europe 2014
Great Britain 2026
Germany 2018
Hungary 2016
Belgium 2012
Italy 2016
Singapore 2012
Japan 2011
Korea ?
India ?
Abu Dhabi 2016
Brazil 2015

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Probably having to give most of the money they make to FOM :pac:

I thought it had sold out or close to it the last couple of years? Not much of a business model they have.

recyclebin

Alonso must be favourite for the title after todays race. He has alot going for him for the remainder of the season

Ferrari are putting all there efforts on just one driver. Their car now has the pace of the Red Bulls and Massa will take points off the other four contenders.

Mclaren and Red Bull still have both of their drivers going for the title. They need to hope that Button and Vettel are out of contention after the next race so they can concentrate on Hamilton and Webber.

When the Red Bulls are not crashing into each other they are knocking the Mclarens off the circuit.

Hamilton, Webber and Vettel are making too many mistakes.

Button is consistent but isn't fast enough. He won't win enough races to make up the points difference.

I hope Korea is ready in time or it will make it nearly impossible for either Mclarens or Vettel to make up the points difference.

zeris

amacachi wrote: »

I thought it had sold out or close to it the last couple of years? Not much of a business model they have.

Is tickets even covering the cost of the event? Even if they where they would need to either increase capacity or increase the ticket price by 5% to 10% each year depending on the contract.

The only business model seems to be either backed by government or a very benevolent sponsor.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

I thought it had sold out or close to it the last couple of years? Not much of a business model they have.

Don't know what there doing, i doubt its the only GP not making money. Didn't Australia say they made a 50 million loss this year? China are always complaining of running at a loss too i think.

zeris wrote: »

Doing a quick Google gives me this for contract expiration dates.

...
China Rolling contract
...

Dump China so
Tell Spain they cant have 2 boring GP's drop Barcelona or alternate with Valencia.
I hope Suzuka gets an extension :eek:

@recyclebin i think at some point soon Red Bull and McLaren will have to focus on one driver(just as soon as Vettel gets ahead of Webber in points ) or their going to gift the championship to Alonso who seems to have the momentum now.

thewheel2.0

zeris wrote: »

Japan 2011

Christ I hope we dont loose Suzuka I can do that track with my eyes closed in GT/Forza - love it.

am i bovvered wrote: »

I am really rooting for Webber to clinch the championship, as much as I love hamilton as a driver the "crash" today was his fault he turned in too tight.

Agreed I enjoy Hamilton's style but would love to see Weber win is he can retire happy.

Ghost Train

I thought Suzuka and Fuji would be swapping every two years

But maybe with Toyota gone that stopped

and with Honda gone probably another thing against Japan GP

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Don't know what there doing, i doubt its the only GP not making money. Didn't Australia say they made a 50 million loss this year? China are always complaining of running at a loss too i think.

Dunno about Australia but China has no-one going to the races so they'll be losing a lot of money anyway, the tickets are a few times the average monthly wage if I remember correctly.

EvilMonkey

Ghost Train wrote: »

I thought Suzuka and Fuji would be swapping every two years

Not since Honda pulled out, Toyota were no longer interested in poaching their home GP they were struggling to justify the costs too.

Fuji pulled out, and Suzuka took over.

amacachi wrote: »

Dunno about Australia but China has no-one going to the races so they'll be losing a lot of money anyway, the tickets are a few times the average monthly wage if I remember correctly.

Yeah i can see why China is loosing money, but they knew what they were getting they hardly expected locals to pay so much.

I think the business model should be sponsors cover the costs, ticket sales = profit/unforeseen costs.
Easier said than done!

Jordan 199

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Christ I hope we dont loose Suzuka I can do that track with my eyes closed in GT/Forza - love it.

Wow!

Jordan 199

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Tell Spain they cant have 2 boring GP's drop Barcelona or alternate with Valencia.

It would be great if the race at Barcelona was dropped, I can't stand it!

The only good race I can remember at that track was when Schumi won in the lashing rain in 1996.

Cookie_Monster

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Tell Spain they cant have 2 boring GP's drop Barcelona or alternate with Valencia.

Valencia is a terrible track, Catalunya is brilliant!

amacachi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Valencia is a terrible track, Catalunya is brilliant!

Catalunya is bloody awful! I don't know anything about bikes, maybe it works for them, but it doesn't work for F1.

FrostyJack

Catalunya is bloody awful!

+1, it might as well be Monaco, barely any overtaking on it. Always a snooze fest, the best car is always on pole on it and usual romps it. It will not be missed. Can't even stand it on the Playstation!

losthorizon

amacachi wrote: »

I thought it had sold out or close to it the last couple of years? Not much of a business model they have.

http://www.yallaf1.com/2010/09/03/spa-future-cloudy-after-bad-attendance/

EvilMonkey

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Valencia is a terrible track, Catalunya is brilliant!

I actually like the circuit but it is been crap for F1. A great place for testing F1 cars but not a race.

muckwarrior

I was just thinking yesterday that If I had to choose one of the European grand prix to be dropped, it would be either of the Spanish ones.

losthorizon

muckwarrior wrote: »

I was just thinking yesterday that If I had to choose one of the European grand prix to be dropped, it would be either of the Spanish ones.

Followed by Bahrain another waste of space.

Cookie_Monster

losthorizon wrote: »

Followed by Bahrain another waste of space.

That's not in Europe though

F1 is getting closer and closer to alienating its mainstream European majority audience, and the more they move to crap locations with crap tracks like Bahrain, UAE, India, Korea, China etc the more likely they are to lose viewership IMO.

For me anyway Bahrain, UAE and China are barely worth watching, Malaysia is ok. There are plenty of very good tracks outside Europe, Canada Suzuka and interlagos stand out immediately, why do they constantly have to go to new countries with **** new Tilke designed borefests of tracks just for the money

losthorizon

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

F1 is getting closer and closer to alienating its mainstream European majority audience, and the more they move to crap locations with crap tracks like Bahrain, UAE, India, Korea, China etc the more likely they are to lose viewership IMO.

For me anyway Bahrain, UAE and China are barely worth watching, Malaysia is ok. There are plenty of very good tracks outside Europe, Canada Suzuka and interlagos stand out immediately, why do they constantly have to go to new countries with **** new Tilke designed borefests of tracks just for the money

I have no real problems with them going outside Europe but its the tracks that are being built is my bone of contention. If every house was designed by the same Architect or you had the same food every night life would soon get very boring. There are some Classic Tracks and F1 should never leave them (Spa(especially Spa), Sao Paulo, Suzuka, Monza).

frostie500

If any race deserves to be cancelled its China, that there is still no fans in the country able to attend the race is a joke. It might be a massive market but even with 200k going to Indy the States lost their race (and Austin isnt looking too good right now in their attempts to return!)

Cant see us losing Belgium or any of the established classics, I'd say FOTA will ensure that doesnt happen.

Five things I think following Singapore

losthorizon

frostie500 wrote: »

Five things I think following Singapore

I also cant understand why Red Bull felt the need to bring in Vettel before Alonso. What was the point? Surely they could have waited till Alonso pitted and he could have dashed off a few quick laps.

frostie500

losthorizon wrote: »

I also cant understand why Red Bull felt the need to bring in Vettel before Alonso. What was the point? Surely they could have waited till Alonso pitted and he could have dashed off a few quick laps.

Yeah I felt their strategies on both cars were strange. They had no chance of getting Vettel ahead of Alonso by pitting on the same lap and with no risk of being overtaken from behind surely they should have kept him out for one lap in clear air. If the tyres were worn out he still would have been second but at least they tried something. The only way Vettel was going to get ahead of Alonso in the pits was if Ferrari made a mistake and you cant make strategic decisions based on 'maybe they make a mess of it'

FREDNISMO

Can't believe there is so many anti vettel people out there and especially on BBC1. Webber is such a spoilt brat who threw his toys out of the pram when he said not bad for a no.2. Is there not a reason why there is a no.1 and 2 in teams. Webber and Button are very similiar not big risk takers and relying on luck. Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel dare to take risks. If i have to listen to Webber winge after every race more or less blaming Vettel without actually saying as much and then the rest of BBC piping in. Does anybody else agree.

muckwarrior

I liked Vettel up to the point where he rammed Webber off the track and then tried to blame him.

Ghost Train

Nice write up on team orders in the Hungarian grand prix plus magazine
http://www.grandprixplus.com/

WesternNight

FREDNISMO wrote: »

Can't believe there is so many anti vettel people out there and especially on BBC1. Webber is such a spoilt brat who threw his toys out of the pram when he said not bad for a no.2. Is there not a reason why there is a no.1 and 2 in teams.

It's not like Webber had no reason to feel like that. He'd been performing better than Vettel, and yet Vettel was seemingly given priority. And that just doesn't compute on any logical level, so I'm fully in Webber's corner where that's concerned.

If anyone routinely thrown toys out of prams, it's been Vettel.

Top Dog

FREDNISMO wrote: »

Can't believe there is so many anti vettel people out there and especially on BBC1. Webber is such a spoilt brat who threw his toys out of the pram when he said not bad for a no.2. Is there not a reason why there is a no.1 and 2 in teams. Webber and Button are very similiar not big risk takers and relying on luck. Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel dare to take risks. If i have to listen to Webber winge after every race more or less blaming Vettel without actually saying as much and then the rest of BBC piping in. Does anybody else agree.

In a word - no.

FREDNISMO

Hi Lightning,learn how to SPELL!!!!!!!!!!

Cookie_Monster

FREDNISMO wrote: »

Can't believe there is so many anti vettel people out there and especially on BBC1.
Webber is such a spoilt brat who threw his toys out of the pram when he said not bad for a no.2.
Is there not a reason why there is a no.1 and 2 in teams.
Webber and Button are very similiar not big risk takers and relying on luck. Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel dare to take risks.
If i have to listen to Webber winge after every race more or less blaming Vettel without actually saying as much and then the rest of BBC piping in. Does anybody else agree.

Vettel has acted like a tool this season which is why a lot of people don't like him, me included.
Yes there is a reason why there is no1 and 2, all teams should really be operating like this, if not at the start of the season, certainly by now.
and as for the rest - no

As as for the spelling, you may want to check that yourself too: "similiar"

Vegeta

muckwarrior wrote: »

I liked Vettel up to the point where he rammed Webber off the track and then tried to blame him.

Yup turned me right off him.

He's a young talented guy but when things are not going his way he is a pain to behold. He is the Lewis Hamilton of a few years ago

Look at how much Hamilton has grown this season (not in height anyway) but how he reacted in the interview after the incident on Sunday, unbelievably calm considering his title shot could be gone.

I wish Vettel could tone down his emotional responses to negative events on track. Would like him much more if he did.

losthorizon

Vegeta wrote: »

Look at how much Hamilton has grown this season (not in height anyway) but how he reacted in the interview after the incident on Sunday, unbelievably calm considering his title shot could be gone.

Hit the nail on the head there. Cant help liking him even though I havent in other years. I feel its somehow connected to his father leaving the scene and also Ron Dennis.

Vegeta

losthorizon wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head there. Cant help liking him even though I havent in other years. I feel its somehow connected to his father leaving the scene and also Ron Dennis.

Yup I'm the same, have never liked Lewis but this season and a lot of last season he has just become much more professional and that is very admirable.

I still don't like the "Who's decision was it to bring me in, terrible decision" stuff over the radio. Really puts me off a driver, but I found Lewis' interview on Sunday very refreshing. I suppose the long walk back to the pits helped him get control of himself. Clearly could see he was disappointed/gutted but didn't immediately blame Mark or complain.

EvilMonkey

Apart from crashing into Webber Vettel hasn't done that much wrong has he? He would be ahead/closer to Webber if it wasn't for his early technical problems (brake problem and the spark plug/engine problem) All Webber's engine failures have been in practice sessions. Webber crashed into Hamilton and Kovi. Vettel crashed into Webber and Button. I cant help feeling with the advantage have in their car one of them should have the title warped up by now.

Top Dog

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I cant help feeling with the advantage have in their car one of them should have the title warped up by now.

Not sure if I agree with you totally on the rest of your post - but I definitely agree with this bit 100%. They really have been their own toughest competition this year!

Vegeta

Vettel had a bad start in China
Hit Webber in Turkey
Bad start in GB too which may be blamed for the puncture
Bad start in Germany
Hungary was the distance to the safety car thing and subsequent drive through
Crashing into Button

Definitely can be sloppy but his talent is not in question.

Couple his mistakes and the reliability issues and he should have it in the bag considering his pace and qualifying results