Ghost Dad stepping up to the plate

amiable

What do people think about about a father wanting nothing to do with a child for the first 3/4 years and then deciding he wants to be part of the childs life once he's decided he's done his growing up?
Should he be allowed a fresh start?
Does the mother have the right morally or legally to deny the father access?
Obviously i know every situation is different.
I'm sorry people but this is a hypothetical situation.

smelltheglove

Firstly I would say fair play to the mother for doing all the hard work herslef. Secondly I think what way to go depends on the father. I mean he has the right to see his child, nobody can deny him that and if the mother were to attempt to then he could gain access through the courts so really there is no sense in taking this route. If the child does not know this man is his father I think the 'done' thing is to introduce him as a friend first, set a time period to ascertain the dads staying power before letting the child know that this is his dad. This time period should be agreed by both parents. just my opinion, others may have experience of a better way.

alex73

amiable wrote: »

What do people think about about a father wanting nothing to do with a child for the first 3/4 years and then deciding he wants to be part of the childs life once he's decided he's done his growing up?
Should he be allowed a fresh start?
Does the mother have the right morally or legally to deny the father access?
Obviously i know every situation is different.

As a man myself I would say the Guy is a waste of space.... and a pathetic excuse for a father.. If you mean he wanted nothing to do with the Child, I presume he never visited or had contact?... In that case all he is going to do is raise the childs expectations because sooner or later he will let you know.

You know if better, but if I were you I would have nothing to do with him.

astra2000

I think for the childs sake he needs to be given a chance to have a relationship with his child. However I could not blame the mother for been unsure as it would have been very hurtful as a parent to think that the other parent had opted out of their childs life voluntarily I am sure the mum does not want to see her child get hurt and who can blame her, but it is the best interests of the child that is important and if the dad goes to court he will - unless he is seen as a danger to the child- more than likely be granted access. My advice would be to take things slowly and stay out of courts if possible.
It may be an idea to seek help from family mediation services who may help implement how best to go about arranging access.

metrovelvet

Its very context dependant imo. And dependant on the child, the history, too hard to say.

I do think though, that you should be open to all possibilities. People can and do change even beyond what we think our wills are directing us to do.

He may have had a eureka moment or some biblical epiphany or maybe he is jusst curious to see what his child looks like and when that is satisfied he will piss off again.

I wont make a comment on the morality or legally part of this because I would have to write a dissertation to answer you and I probably would still end up not having an answer.

But I would say, proceed with caution.

we'llallhavetea_old

it depends on what the father is like tbh.

i have a 6 yr old and her "father" has not been in her life since she was about 11 months old. I've heard back that he spins a sob story about how i won't allow him access when in fact, he has never tried to see her.

if he were to try (would never happen) to see her, i would freak out. he is not a good person, never mind a good role model. i would fight him to the death to make sure he would not have anything to do with her.

when we split up i was completely distraught that my daughter would not have her father in her life, tbh that's the main reason he was around as long as he was. but then i realised that my daughter deserves good people in her life, which has nothing to do with biological relatives.

mariaf24

I firmly believe a person can change and everybody deserves a second chance. Obviously you have every right to be cautious and no doubt this has come as a shock.

The person you need to think about is the child and try to ignore your own anger towards the father.

I would suggest you two meet for a very detailed discussion so that you can voice your concerns and also lay down some conditions. You may also like to hear an explanation? Then again maybe you don't.

I would definitely welcome it, 3 or 4 years is better late than never and your child may be angry with you in a few years if you were to prevent this?

I would suggest initially supervised access / visits and monitor the situation and the fathers behaviour and consistency closely.

Joey the lips

its a very hard one to give opinions on without knowing you both but i would say that if your ok with it then why not give it a go.

More importantly tell him you need a written commitmemt that he is going to support you etc...

smelltheglove

I dont get the attitude that the guy is worthless or maybe you can allow him. There is no choice in the matter really, he is the father and he is entitled to meet his child. It is unfortunate that he made a terrible choice to turn his back it really is, maybe he had issues and coming forward was hard for him, as I said fair dues to the mammy but he is still the daddy and if mammy is to decide not to allow visitation he can take her to court and he will get some sort of access, surpervised or not.

The only way to deal with the situation is amicably, any other course would just make relations sour and make it harder for the child. Kids with absent parents, even though they do not mention them, do feel disappointed they only have one parent. My younger brother often told my little one how lucky she was to have two daddies and that it wasnt fair she had two and he had none, this was from him being aged 7ish to around 11 or 12. Fair enough if it doesnt turn out the way you hoped at least you tried and the child will no longer long for the parent they never knew, imagine how the child would feel later in life to hear that the mammy tried to stop them meeting their daddy....

metrovelvet

smelltheglove wrote: »

enough if it doesnt turn out the way you hoped at least you tried and the child will no longer long for the parent they never knew, imagine how the child would feel later in life to hear that the mammy tried to stop them meeting their daddy....

I don't think trying to guilt trip the OP is really a fair way to go. This is borderline emotional blackmail. You have no idea how the child would feel. Pure speculation.

Sgt Pepper 64

I would give him a chance, but meet with him first and lay down a few ground rules and discuss what he expects to get out of it, especially long term.
The fear would be that he gets his child all excited about being in his life again, but then disappears after a few months. That could cause more emotional damage than not having ever really known him.

I would give him a chance because maybe he has just grown up.
Remember us men are more immature than women, and people develop differently.

Hope it works out

we'llallhavetea_old

smelltheglove wrote: »

Kids with absent parents, even though they do not mention them, do feel disappointed they only have one parent.

well this has pissed me off no end. :mad:

i think you have forgotten to add "imo", because that is all that is, your opinion. you cannot possibly know that every child from a one parent family feels like that.

stovelid

Yes: if only because the child may resent you if you block access to her father.

At the end of the day, it is her father, however hard it is for you.

metrovelvet

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I would give him a chance, but meet with him first and lay down a few ground rules and discuss what he expects to get out of it, especially long term.
The fear would be that he gets his child all excited about being in his life again, but then disappears after a few months. That could cause more emotional damage than not having ever really known him.

I would give him a chance because maybe he has just grown up.
Remember us men are more immature than women, and people develop differently.

Hope it works out

I think the child should meet his or her father. I really think kids should know at least what their parents look like, sound like, feel like. What their presence is like. Do this once. So the child has a sense.

Lay out conditions next. He has been gone for too long now to be handed over your trust.

Don't excuse this man's behavior by saying men are more immature. If I said that I'd be banned for misandry.

we'llallhavetea_old

stovelid wrote: »

Yes: if only because the child may resent you if you block access to her father.

At the end of the day, it is her father, however hard it is for you.

while i agree with you stovelid, and i'm just using quoting your post as a general statement, i feel as a parent it's your responsibility to look out for your childs best interests and sometimes that means a life in a one parent family.

obviously if the other parent seeks access through the courts and is successful, there is sod all you can do about it.

metrovelvet

stovelid wrote: »

Yes: if only because the child may resent you if you block access to her father.

At the end of the day, it is her father, however hard it is for you.

The child may also resent you if you don't protect him or her from harm and being ****ed about.

Sgt Pepper 64

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think the child should meet his or her father. I really think kids should know at least what their parents look like, sound like, feel like. What their presence is like. Do this once. So the child has a sense.

Lay out conditions next. He has been gone for too long now to be handed over your trust.

Don't excuse this man's behavior by saying men are more immature. If I said that I'd be banned for misandry.

Ok, maybe that was a bit silly. What I meant to say was that, without knowing him or his life, he may have reasons for what he did, that we could never understand. Something from his past maybe? Humans can be complicated without us ever really knowing why, so dont just assume that he was an ass, without knowing the facts, much in the same way that people do lots of things, like just not returning home one day, without us ever being able to understand. He could just be an ass, but without knowing him or any of his life, who are we to judge? Only the OP can do that.

January

I think you need to sit down with the father, without the child present and discuss what exactly he wants from this. Explain to him that obviously you are unsure whether you should let him into your childs life because of the way he has acted up until now. You've been the sole parent up til know and you ultimately make the decisions for your son/daughter.

I like another posters way of introducing him as a friend first, that way you don't throw the poor child in at the deep end (especially if he looks upon your father or someone else as a father figure to them) and get them confused. I wouldn't let him take the child off on his own until he regains your trust and the childs trust.

smelltheglove

metrovelvet wrote: »

I don't think trying to guilt trip the OP is really a fair way to go. This is borderline emotional blackmail. You have no idea how the child would feel. Pure speculation.

I am in no way passing emotional blackmail at all. It is his right to see his child, yes he has been a dick in the past, but it is his child and in my experience, children do bring forward resentment from childhood, somethings you don't understand at the time become a lot more obvious when you are older, should I say the child will be grateful that the mother kept the father away, we both know that is highly unlikely!

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

well this has pissed me off no end. :mad:

i think you have forgotten to add "imo", because that is all that is, your opinion. you cannot possibly know that every child from a one parent family feels like that.

Apologies for pissing you off but this is my experience of it. Parenting is about the child and not the parent but kids can be afraid to tell the parent what they want as they don't want to upset the parent. As with my experience a child told me rather than their mother that they missed a daddy they did not know! Why, because mammy would be upset if they told her!

Can anyone here honestly say, if they were brought up by one parent, not knowing the other, that they would never ever think what if? No matter how much they love their parent who stood by them? Never any inkling of curiosity? Has anyone here been in the position where a child has come to them crying, wanting to know about the parent, wanting to know why or what they have done that was so bad?

I have, its not nice, holding back the tears myself during this situation was extremely difficult, still to this day I don't know how I did but we deal with things and we do it. If from my experience I can possibly give a little bit of advice brought forward from that then yes I will do it because I would not want another person put in that position!

we'llallhavetea_old

smelltheglove wrote: »

I am in no way passing emotional blackmail at all. It is his right to see his child, yes he has been a dick in the past, but it is his child and in my experience, children do bring forward resentment from childhood, somethings you don't understand at the time become a lot more obvious when you are older, should I say the child will be grateful that the mother kept the father away, we both know that is highly unlikely!

highly unlikely why? i really dunno how you can seem so sure

my cousin was reared in a one parent family and has never met her father, and has never wanted to, she's in her late twenties now. she says she has no desire to meet him since he was never there.

Apologies for pissing you off but this is my experience of it. Parenting is about the child and not the parent but kids can be afraid to tell the parent what they want as they don't want to upset the parent. As with my experience a child told me rather than their mother that they missed a daddy they did not know! Why, because mammy would be upset if they told her!

yes, this is your experience, it's not in anyway gospel!

Can anyone here honestly say, if they were brought up by one parent, not knowing the other, that they would never ever think what if? No matter how much they love their parent who stood by them? Never any inkling of curiosity? Has anyone here been in the position where a child has come to them crying, wanting to know about the parent, wanting to know why or what they have done that was so bad?

of course you would be interested to know. when my daughter is old enough and if she wants to meet her "father" then of course i will help her make that happen, but until then, no, it's not even an issue tbh. she has never even asked why she doesn't have a dad, but other kids have, in front of her and when i respond with "some families have mammies and daddies, some have just a mammy and some have just a daddy" she seems satisfied with that.

I have, its not nice, holding back the tears myself during this situation was extremely difficult, still to this day I don't know how I did but we deal with things and we do it. If from my experience I can possibly give a little bit of advice brought forward from that then yes I will do it because I would not want another person put in that position!

you're entitled to give your advise/ opinion of course, but you really should state that it is just your opinion!

i mean, the way i read that was "children of lone parents can never be fully happy because they miss the other parent" - you can see why i'm pissed off! it was horrible to read.

smelltheglove

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

highly unlikely why? i really dunno how you can seem so sure

my cousin was reared in a one parent family and has never met her father, and has never wanted to, she's in her late twenties now. she says she has no desire to meet him since he was never there..

It in our nature as human beings to be interested in our history and heritage this is why it would be, in my opinion, highly unlikely.

In my opnion the op is asking for advice when a father WANTS to meet a child, not when a father does not, this is a huge difference, for your cousin her father never wanted to be there, in this case the father does want to be there.

yes, this is your experience, it's not in anyway gospel!

of course you would be interested to know. when my daughter is old enough and if she wants to meet her "father" then of course i will help her make that happen, but until then, no, it's not even an issue tbh. she has never even asked why she doesn't have a dad, but other kids have, in front of her and when i respond with "some families have mammies and daddies, some have just a mammy and some have just a daddy" she seems satisfied with that..

As is the plan with the child I spoke of, again the father has not requested to meet the child. As I said also in my experience the child would not approach the parent for fear of upsetting them. Have you sat down with your child to discuss it and rule it out? We used that exact line for a long time in our family believing exactly what you have said here until the 'breakdown'.

i mean, the way i read that was "children of lone parents can never be fully happy because they miss the other parent" - you can see why i'm pissed off! it was horrible to read.

Apologies but in my opinion you must be quite sensitive to read it like that.

I only ever give advice which I think may help, again in myopinion, I dont want you to be upset about that but I do base my advice on my experience. I may still be young enough but I do have experience as a parent, once upon a time a single parent and experience of a very diverse family.

These issues do hit me in the heart as I have experienced a lot of the issues parents come to this forum with, although a lot I have experienced in childhood rather than parenthood. Most of the 'issues' I did not realise were issues until I was a parent myself, this I think is when you reflect more on your own childhood, realise where mistakes were made. It is unfortunate that parents take their own feelings into account when it comes to dealing with an ex, in my opinion the reason for this is because the relationship is no longer about the parents, ultimately it is about the children not a relationship gone sour. People make mistakes but for the sake of the children it is best to try and get along as much as possible, give each other a little bit of a break every once in a while.

The father in this case is asking for much more than a break, I realise that and I have said fair dues to the mother but at the end of the day he is the father and the choice of access in the immediate term may be hers but by turning it down it would only bring the possiblity or court ordered visitation which could sour relationships much more than need be.

metrovelvet

smelltheglove wrote: »

I am in no way passing emotional blackmail at all. It is his right to see his child, yes he has been a dick in the past, but it is his child and in my experience, children do bring forward resentment from childhood, somethings you don't understand at the time become a lot more obvious when you are older, should I say the child will be grateful that the mother kept the father away, we both know that is highly unlikely!

Yes you are.

And you dont know if it will be highly unlikely or not. PErsonally, I'd rather have a resentful child with a healthy ego than a damaged child who has screwed up because of a peek a boo dad.

[QUOTE=smelltheglove;68165648

Apologies for pissing you off but this is my experience of it. Parenting is about the child and not the parent but kids can be afraid to tell the parent what they want as they don't want to upset the parent. As with my experience a child told me rather than their mother that they missed a daddy they did not know! Why, because mammy would be upset if they told her!

Can anyone here honestly say, if they were brought up by one parent, not knowing the other, that they would never ever think what if? No matter how much they love their parent who stood by them? Never any inkling of curiosity? Has anyone here been in the position where a child has come to them crying, wanting to know about the parent, wanting to know why or what they have done that was so bad?

I have, its not nice, holding back the tears myself during this situation was extremely difficult, still to this day I don't know how I did but we deal with things and we do it. If from my experience I can possibly give a little bit of advice brought forward from that then yes I will do it because I would not want another person put in that position![/QUOTE]

Being curious about them is one thing. Meeting them is one thing. Letting a man who has had a four year absence straight back in is entirely another.

But your last paragraph in your first post was so condescendingly full of pity it demotes the child.

Saying children of lone parents"they can never be fully happy". Who the hell do you think you are coming out with that?

wolfpawnat

As the child of a relationship where dad didnt want to see up but we were force to go I can only give a small bit advice;

See what the dad wants from visiting the child.

Start off with day visits only, if they work out CONSIDER nights, don't start off on them, the child must build a relationship with their father.

Give him the chance, you need the break, the child needs a chance to get to know the father.

IF he screws around, doesn't take the child when he was supposed to, arriving 30 min late to collect them with no excuse or phonecall. Do not countinue the visits until you sit him down and tear him a new one because this is a little child we are talking about!


The child would probably like to meet their dad. After you have discussed it with the dad about the possibility of visits, ask the child how they feel, they are the priority and they should really get final say. It will only make everyone miserable if the child is going and doesn't want to. As for the father if this is the case, well he can blame no one but himself!

Legally you have no right to stop him, morally you may have some ground pending his attitude.

Oh and as regards the "You never let me have a relationship with my dad" statement in later life, it could happen, it may be something to beat you with in an argument. I used it a few times. I also used the "you forced us to go even when we begged you not to" argument. So you really will never win with 10-18 year olds!!!

amiable

Joey the lips wrote: »

its a very hard one to give opinions on without knowing you both but i would say that if your ok with it then why not give it a go.

More importantly tell him you need a written commitmemt that he is going to support you etc...

I personally don't see how a written commitment would have anything to do with it. Its hardly a legal binding document. Would hardly stop someone leaving if they wanted to go

amiable

metrovelvet wrote: »

Its very context dependant imo. And dependant on the child, the history, too hard to say.

I do think though, that you should be open to all possibilities. People can and do change even beyond what we think our wills are directing us to do.

He may have had a eureka moment or some biblical epiphany or maybe he is jusst curious to see what his child looks like and when that is satisfied he will piss off again.

I wont make a comment on the morality or legally part of this because I would have to write a dissertation to answer you and I probably would still end up not having an answer.

But I would say, proceed with caution.

I myself disagree and think people don't actually change. I think deep down they are still they same person. They may alter themselves for a period but not change. It will always be inside them.
I actually feel sorry for all the good estranged fathers out there who'd love nothing more than to be with their kids. The bad Dads tar the good ones

amiable

smelltheglove wrote: »

I dont get the attitude that the guy is worthless or maybe you can allow him. There is no choice in the matter really, he is the father and he is entitled to meet his child. It is unfortunate that he made a terrible choice to turn his back it really is, maybe he had issues and coming forward was hard for him, as I said fair dues to the mammy but he is still the daddy and if mammy is to decide not to allow visitation he can take her to court and he will get some sort of access, surpervised or not.

The only way to deal with the situation is amicably, any other course would just make relations sour and make it harder for the child. Kids with absent parents, even though they do not mention them, do feel disappointed they only have one parent. My younger brother often told my little one how lucky she was to have two daddies and that it wasnt fair she had two and he had none, this was from him being aged 7ish to around 11 or 12. Fair enough if it doesnt turn out the way you hoped at least you tried and the child will no longer long for the parent they never knew, imagine how the child would feel later in life to hear that the mammy tried to stop them meeting their daddy....

You don't think a guy is worthless if he decides he's not ready for a few years to be a father. Just let him go off and live his life for a while and i'll give you a shout when i'm ready. I'm sorry that seems at the minimum very selfish to me. I'm sorry but the mother doesn't get a choice like that.

wolfpawnat

amiable wrote: »

I myself disagree and think people don't actually change. I think deep down they are still they same person. They may alter themselves for a period but not change. It will always be inside them.

I do really believe that people can and do change, it usually takes something life altering to achieve it mind you!!!

amiable wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for all the good estranged fathers out there who'd love nothing more than to be with their kids. The bad Dads tar the good ones

+1000!!!!!

amiable

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Ok, maybe that was a bit silly. What I meant to say was that, without knowing him or his life, he may have reasons for what he did, that we could never understand. Something from his past maybe? Humans can be complicated without us ever really knowing why, so dont just assume that he was an ass, without knowing the facts, much in the same way that people do lots of things, like just not returning home one day, without us ever being able to understand. He could just be an ass, but without knowing him or any of his life, who are we to judge? Only the OP can do that.

Say the reasons are something like i'm only circa20/21 and i'm enjoying my single life too much to be burdened with a child or family life. Say he likes smoking gear too much with his buddies or going on sessions. Thats hardly an adequate reason. IMO its just too easy for some people to coast through life in this country and thats one of the reasons its in a mess.
I really think it could be the making of some people to step up to the plate and be a real man

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As the child of a relationship where dad didnt want to see up but we were force to go I can only give a small bit advice;

See what the dad wants from visiting the child.

Start off with day visits only, if they work out CONSIDER nights, don't start off on them, the child must build a relationship with their father.

Give him the chance, you need the break, the child needs a chance to get to know the father.

IF he screws around, doesn't take the child when he was supposed to, arriving 30 min late to collect them with no excuse or phonecall. Do not countinue the visits until you sit him down and tear him a new one because this is a little child we are talking about!


The child would probably like to meet their dad. After you have discussed it with the dad about the possibility of visits, ask the child how they feel, they are the priority and they should really get final say. It will only make everyone miserable if the child is going and doesn't want to. As for the father if this is the case, well he can blame no one but himself!

Legally you have no right to stop him, morally you may have some ground pending his attitude.

Oh and as regards the "You never let me have a relationship with my dad" statement in later life, it could happen, it may be something to beat you with in an argument. I used it a few times. I also used the "you forced us to go even when we begged you not to" argument. So you really will never win with 10-18 year olds!!!

Exactly. People have fantasies about the future and what goes on in other people's heads, including other people's children;s heads.

When my parents divorced my mother took us back to the US so we could have a relationship with our father. Now I never hated my dad, he was always part of our life, but quite frankly she and her kids [us] would have been a lot better off staying in Europe.

Im sure on a bad day, in an argument when I was 16 I would have thrown it in her face, but so what.

amiable

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I do really believe that people can and do change, it usually takes something life altering to achieve it mind you!!!

I personally feel deep down they are essentially the same person but i totally respect your opinion.

wolfpawnat

amiable wrote: »

I personally feel deep down they are essentially the same person but i totally respect your opinion.

As I respect yours, it is funny though, because I have been burned so many times by BOTH of my parents. Both have actually changed............. for the worse. So I am not sure where my faith in such a thing comes from, I suppose I must have more faith in human kind than my experiences should have taught me!