First time rifle purchase, options opinions.

Merch

Looking for some opinions

Best rifle make and calibre for target (practice) and ultimately (hopefully) hunting (not deer, vermin)
My plan is to join a club and do the safety stuff and get practice on targets, but with the view to joining a club thing too.
I think I could probably get a .22 new or second hand reasonably priced
but not sure what make/model would be good to go for or even ones to avoid, or even if a .22 is suitable.
Options possibly a CZ but no idea what model would be good, I've been told BRNO also but from what I can see that is a connected with CZ too (same company?)

(Also I have no rifle or licence at the moment) I'd prefer more than a .22 rimfire as I'd like to be able to use it for hunting (if that becomes a possibility later) without having to upgrade to another rifle again later.
So .17 or .22 centerfire? I'm not certain if I would be issued a licence for a .22 hornet or even a .17

I'm also uncertain if bolt action or semi? or how that will be viewed by clubs or gardai, just thought it might be better for bunnies?

Perhaps I should not be looking for one rifle that fits all? but I would prefer to spend more money on one rifle that covers everything than less on a say 2.

Tackleberrywho

Merch wrote: »

Looking for some opinions

Best rifle make and calibre for target (practice) and ultimately (hopefully) hunting (not deer, vermin)
My plan is to join a club and do the safety stuff and get practice on targets, but with the view to joining a club thing too.
I think I could probably get a .22 new or second hand reasonably priced
but not sure what make/model would be good to go for or even ones to avoid, or even if a .22 is suitable.
Options possibly a CZ but no idea what model would be good, I've been told BRNO also but from what I can see that is a connected with CZ too (same company?)

(Also I have no rifle or licence at the moment) I'd prefer more than a .22 rimfire as I'd like to be able to use it for hunting (if that becomes a possibility later) without having to upgrade to another rifle again later.
So .17 or .22 centerfire? I'm not certain if I would be issued a licence for a .22 hornet or even a .17

I'm also uncertain if bolt action or semi? or how that will be viewed by clubs or gardai, just thought it might be better for bunnies?

Perhaps I should not be looking for one rifle that fits all? but I would prefer to spend more money on one rifle that covers everything than less on a say 2.

Ok.

You've asked a good question.
However your Budget would also have to be considered to give an accurate answer.
.22centrefire ammo is not cheap, nor is the optics used on them.

.22LR CZ is probably the cheapest rifle entry level in all calibres.

The best person to ask about getting a licence is your local Garda in charge of firearms.
They normally know what the super will licence, tell them what you are considering, what you want it for etc.

Your budget determines much of the answers given to you in regards to rifle choice.
Club membership &/or Insurance (some clubs include insurance)
Licence fee, security cabinet etc
All these costs can mount up before you even buy a rifle.

You want to have the figure of ~€1000 in your head to include rifle/scope/cabinet/insurance &/or Club membership.

To Hunt you need 3 farmers signatures of permission.
To shoot Targets you need proof of membership of an authorized range.

Hope this helps, if you let us know how much you have to spend we can give more options

smokin ace

i was like you when i started 3 years ago did not know what calibre gun to go for or what gun would suite my needs i started off with a second hand cz .22 with scope and silencer that i bought off a friend of mine and it was a brilliant little gun to learn the ropes with and to get use to shooting it was very cheap shooting i think it was around €5.00 for a box of 50 bullets and i took many rabbits with it but after a year and a half i got a little bored with it as the range just was not there if i did not get a head shot at 100 yards the rabbits would drag themselves off so i traded it in for a marlin.17 its a lot better rifle it would take down a fox at a 100 yards maybe more with head shot no problem something the cz.22 would not do the bullets are €17.50 for 50 bullets for the .17 but i think you should start of small and then work up

and as tack says its all down to how much you can afford but my advise would be to start off at entry level dont spend a fortune on a gun just incase you dont like it and just incase you get bored with shooting after a few months like what happened to a few lads i know after spending a fortune on all the gear go to your local firearms dealer and have a talk to him but first go to your local garda station and have a talk to them about it

Merch

Thanks for the replies
I am thinking of €1000 to get me started all in, but its not a goal, if it can be done for less great but I dont want to go too cheap on say a rifle or scope and have to spend the money second time around to get the right product.
so maybe my options are .22 rimfire .17 or a 22 magnum rimfire?
I'm not sure if the latter is any benefit but I have heard and read about the first two. Seems to me the .17 is good? but people seem to say .22 is cheap but ends up getting replaced,
maybe if as I am starting the .22 is the job for me, would I better to go for the .22 WMR?

also, I dont even know one farmer, let alone 3
So perhaps I will make contacts for that through joining a club

smokin ace

Merch wrote: »

Thanks for the replies
I am thinking of €1000 to get me started all in, but its not a goal, if it can be done for less great but I dont want to go too cheap on say a rifle or scope and have to spend the money second time around to get the right product.
so maybe my options are .22 rimfire .17 or a 22 magnum rimfire?
I'm not sure if the latter is any benefit but I have heard and read about the first two. Seems to me the .17 is good? but people seem to say .22 is cheap but ends up getting replaced,
maybe if as I am starting the .22 is the job for me, would I better to go for the .22 WMR?[/QUOTE

with a €1000 you should get a nice set up if i had it back again i would have went straight for the .17 first off but dont know if there is any limit on first time licences try and pick up a second hand safe as that would give a few extra euro for the gun but best of luck and happy shooting :)

Tackleberrywho

Merch wrote: »

Thanks for the replies
I am thinking of €1000 to get me started all in, but its not a goal, if it can be done for less great but I dont want to go too cheap on say a rifle or scope and have to spend the money second time around to get the right product.
so maybe my options are .22 rimfire .17 or a 22 magnum rimfire?
I'm not sure if the latter is any benefit but I have heard and read about the first two. Seems to me the .17 is good? but people seem to say .22 is cheap but ends up getting replaced,
maybe if as I am starting the .22 is the job for me, would I better to go for the .22 WMR?

The .22wmr vs the .17hmr debate has been on here several times to date.
The .22lr is the cheapest by far to feed, but the shortest effective range.
It depends on where you live.
I know parts of Roscommon where the fields are sub 2 acres so a .22lr is ideal, however around where I shoot 40acre fields are not uncommon, so a .22lr is a bit weak.

The .22mag is going out of fasion so it will be harder to sell if you do want to change, and only a few companies chamber it these days.

For low Budget a .22lr or .17HMR in my opinion are the way for you to go.
The .17hmr is louder than the .22lr but it is flatter shooting out to 150 yards, and has more knock down power. Some may differ on my opinion but most would broadly agree.

No6

Most clubs (not target shooting cluns!!) in rural areas don't particurarly like rifles as there members are predominately shotgun men only. If you want a rifle you'll need some permissions, you don't say where you are living so its hard to advise you there. I took up shooting only a year and a half ago and my frist rifle was a cz .22 mag. Its a great rifle to start with, accurate out to 100m and will kill a fox as well as a rabbit, its not too expensive to run at around 13 euro a box of 50 bullets. If you are near a target club you could join that first and get licensed and as you say get to know a few landowners.

Cass

A good starter/hunting/target rifle (IMO) would be the Anschutz 1710D in .22lr.



Seriously accurate rifle, both for target and hunting work. Its in .22lr so a great caliber to start learning the ropes of rifle shooting. Can shoot out to 100yds with great reults on rabbits, etc. Cheap ammo based on a box of Lapua Super Club at €7 a box (or so).

If its pure hunting then a .17HMR might be the route to go. Will not give advice on this as i have never owned one. If you want a rifle for both hunting and target though i would suggest staying with .22lr as there are many competitions you can use it for. Some/most/all competitions either do not allow .22 magnum/.17HMR or those calibers do not compete well against the other calibers you may be going up against.

Merch

From the replies, I think the .22LR will be the best fit for all situations for me, although a .17 sounds like what Id have had in mind if it shoots flatter and has more punch, until I have some use maybe the .22 will be just as good until I find a need for more.
I will look into what is available second hand but possibly new also.

So its down to an opinion of make or model, cant see that Anschutz model on duffys or sportsden, but Ive googled it
To me a requirement would be something that is light enough but still reasonably priced, I'd plan on getting a scope but I would like iron sights too.

Other than that I'm not sure if I should go semi auto or bolt action,
I'm thinking bolt action will be a bit slow if ultimately out shooting rabbits.

I'm in Dublin, the suburbs (minus the accent)

tac foley

Merch wrote: »

I've been told BRNO also but from what I can see that is a connected with CZ too (same company?)

Older CZ rifles were sold under the trademark BRNO - Brno City is the centre of the former Czech national arsenal - CZ are one of the oldest firearms related makers in existence.

we have BRNO rifles belonging to our club that are over 40 years old - still first-class shooters in every respect.

tac

kildare.17hmr

I bought a brand new marlin.17hmr same as smokin aces a few months ago. rifle, scope and safe came in at about 700 all new, joined a club and put that down for my reason at the time as i also didnt know any landowners(you only need 2 signatures now BTW tac;)) and in the next couple of weeks asked around and got to know a few farmers through work and from walking the local fields talkin to lads. got my permissions and handed them in to the station after i sent in the application and they just got added to it.

Cass

Merch wrote: »

To me a requirement would be something that is light enough but still reasonably priced, I'd plan on getting a scope but I would like iron sights too.

The 1710 D KL model runs around €1450 new. It comes with iron sights and built in cheek riser. The rifle is superb. Having owned one i can vouch for this. While more expensive they can be gotten far cheaper second hand and for €1000 (or so) you could pick up a nice one with scope.

Other than that I'm not sure if I should go semi auto or bolt action,
I'm thinking bolt action will be a bit slow if ultimately out shooting rabbits.

Think more along the lines of quality rather than quantity. When you become proficient with the rifle using the bolt quickly and smoothly will be second nature to you. There is also some debate as to the accuracy of a semi auto compared to a bolt action. Not going to muddy the waters by starting into that, but one piece of advice, choose carefully and wisely before buying. Make sure you are 100% happy with what you're buying.

Merch

Thanks for the advice/opinions, I wasn't expecting so many so soon.

That Anschutz sounds good, I like the idea of the cheek riser or any kind of adjustment in the stock, but as new to the whole thing maybe a well suited stock would just be as good.Its bit higher in price than I had intended going but I'm not ruling anything in or out yet

I wrote the thread with the view to something other than a 22 and maybe not even bolt action,
now Im thinking that 22 bolt action probably the best option, for the moment.
Gonna look into a club, get some other opinions on make/model/price and hoping to have something within a few months.

thanks again for the advice.

ferrete

personally id get a 223 best all round gets longer distance and kills better for foxes etc

Merch

ferrete wrote: »

personally id get a 223 best all round gets longer distance and kills better for foxes etc

well I would like a .223 but I dont know a range I could shoot that in/near Dublin or how it would be viewed by the gardai for first rifle so I just ruled it out completely, Overall I would prefer something else like a .17 maybe even a .223 but a .22LR might suit my needs more all round for the moment.
Still good to get all opinions though

Tackleberrywho

Merch wrote: »

well I would like a .223 but I dont know a range I could shoot that in/near Dublin or how it would be viewed by the gardai for first rifle so I just ruled it out completely, Overall I would prefer something else like a .17 maybe even a .223 but a .22LR might suit my needs more all round for the moment.
Still good to get all opinions though

If you never fired a rifle or shotty before a .223 is a lot of gun to start with.

I know of one or two whose first rifle was a .223, but they had a shotty for a few years before that and were quite competent with that.

.223 is more expensive to run than a .22 and is Very loud in comparison to a .17hmr or a .22lr

kay 9

Better with an 22LR as a starter. You wont regret it in a couple of years when you fire hundreds or thousands of rounds through it for half nothing and gain invaluable experience and grow to be a very competent shot due to starting on a 22lr. My 2 cents

jap gt

ferrete wrote: »

personally id get a 223 best all round gets longer distance and kills better for foxes etc

its too dear to fire a 223 while learning to shoot imo

op i was in your position last year, just starting to shoot/hunt, i bought a 22wmr its agreat gun and i have learned a lot from it, shot everything from rats to fox, but if i was doing it all again i would get a 22lr and learn a few skills then maybe go for the centrefires

Merch

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If you never fired a rifle or shotty before a .223 is a lot of gun to start with.

I know of one or two whose first rifle was a .223, but they had a shotty for a few years before that and were quite competent with that.

.223 is more expensive to run than a .22 and is Very loud in comparison to a .17hmr or a .22lr

This wouldn't be the first time I've fired a rifle but it will be the first time i've owned (planning to own) and fire my own regular, but much less on a shotguns for me. Have fired .223/5.56 and 7.62 and some others in handguns (all legit) but never .22LR , possibly the rifle changes the effect but I found .223 to have negligble recoil. Like you say and others too the .223 might be bit pricey for regular shooting (for me anyway)
Part of the reason, (there seems to be some praise for .22LR so no offense meant) I initially was set against a .22LR in my mind was I was used to firing in the past 5.56 or larger and I thought I might not even notice firing a .22LR, I hope that makes sense, I should have said from the start I was in the army in the past but while I enjoyed shooting, I never got into it when I left and its something I wanted to do.Certainly it doesnt make me think Im an expert or anything, if anything I may have learned bad habits?

kay 9 wrote: »

Better with an 22LR as a starter. You wont regret it in a couple of years when you fire hundreds or thousands of rounds through it for half nothing and gain invaluable experience and grow to be a very competent shot due to starting on a 22lr. My 2 cents

thats part of it for me these days, so I can get to shoot regular for a reasonable price.

jap gt wrote: »

its too dear to fire a 223 while learning to shoot imo
op i was in your position last year, just starting to shoot/hunt, i bought a 22wmr its agreat gun and i have learned a lot from it, shot everything from rats to fox, but if i was doing it all again i would get a 22lr and learn a few skills then maybe go for the centrefires

All good points I think, it has been a while for me from shooting and I would like to put some effort into being good at it, so in that regard I think the .22LR will be good for regular practice like most people are saying.
But in the future I would like to go for something with more range/power, maybe a .17 or a .223 for vermin/rabbits.

I appreciate all the good replies, all good info for me to mull over.

Tackleberrywho

Only you know what YOU want and what YOU can afford.

I've licensed 7 rifles now in my own name.
I on average change every few years.
however i can afford to "thank god"

You will always resell a quality .22lr easier and with less loss of investment than with any other rifle.

if YOU want to hold on to it, best advice by a recognized quality make or rifle. In Bolt action, as they sell easier.

My Dad has the same Anschutz .22 SLLR since 1964!

sfakiaman

Maybe you should consider the Sako Quad http://www.sako.fi/sakoquad.php . You could start with the .22lr barrel and add a .22 wmr later as a spare barrel without the hassle of another licence. Sako make very good rifles. My own .22 is a CZ varmint and I'm very happy with it but could use the extra range and power of the .22 wmr for the odd fox. My .308 is a bit OTT for foxes near the house:D

rrpc

+1 to what ezridax has said about the .22lr and the Anschütz. You might not have considered the possibility of keeping the .22 when you 'move up' in calibres, but it's definitely worth considering. There are many people here who've regretted getting rid of their .22 after upgrading because it's so versatile and useful to have.

The trigger on the Brno/CZ is not as good as that on the Anschütz, so that's another reason to get one, if you're doing any target work, a heavy trigger is a serious disadvantage. I'd also steer clear of a semi because there aren't that many options and most of them aren't particularly good.

A good rifle second hand is worth more than an average one new, so take your time about choosing and have a good look around. The For Sale section here has some good stuff from time to time. If you do see something that interests you, post about it here and you'll definitely get good advice as to whether it's worth getting or not.

Sparks

[broken record]Don't discount older second-hand rifles like the Vickers or BSA rifles[/broken record].
Yes, the trigger can be a little heavier than the best match actions, but they're still highly accurate and cheap as chips. The only difficulty can finding them in Ireland (we really need some enterprising gundealer to do a phone-round of gunshops in the UK to snag bits of their stock to import for resale here...). I'd definitely take one over any CZ/Bruno, and I've argued in the past that for a beginner, they're better than an anshutz (they're not actually better as match rifles you understand, just better at the specific application of being a training rifle for a beginner).

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

[broken record]Don't discount older second-hand rifles like the Vickers or BSA rifles[/broken record].
Yes, the trigger can be a little heavier than the best match actions, but they're still highly accurate and cheap as chips. The only difficulty can finding them in Ireland (we really need some enterprising gundealer to do a phone-round of gunshops in the UK to snag bits of their stock to import for resale here...). I'd definitely take one over any CZ/Bruno, and I've argued in the past that for a beginner, they're better than an anshutz (they're not actually better as match rifles you understand, just better at the specific application of being a training rifle for a beginner).

The record is broken and playing the wrong track

The OP evinced an interest in hunting primarily and then target shooting. A BSA or Vickers would be a mite heavy to be lugging around hills and dales in search of bunnnies.

bunny shooter

I think Jim Griffin had some BSA's for sale if anyone is interested

Sparks

Yes rrpc, but it'd also be a few hundred euro cheaper and more accurate (I've seen Vickers rifles advertised for €250, and I'd bet you could get a better price if you haggled). Granted, they're not lightweight, and they're better for target shooting than hunting bunnies, but if money's an issue...

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Yes rrpc, but it'd also be a few hundred euro cheaper and more accurate (I've seen Vickers rifles advertised for €250, and I'd bet you could get a better price if you haggled). Granted, they're not lightweight, and they're better for target shooting than hunting bunnies, but if money's an issue...

Off topic, anyone consider chopping the barrel on a Vickers or BSA?
Shorter barrel = lighter, and almost as accurate if done by a professional and barrel re-crowned. (€200 + 100= still heap rifle)

Probably a non runner, as for hunting a single shot martini action or similar is a pain in the Arás;)

My Da's Anschutz SLLR is a single shot so I am speaking from "his" experiences

Odysseus

OP just my experience. I got a CZ 452 .17hmr early last year; my first rimfire. I already had a 12g and a .22 air-rifle. I love the .17, however, some after thoughts I had are as follows. Sometimes I think I would be better with a .22 as AFAIK I cannot use the .17 at most ranges. I'm not a range member but I think this is correct. Then the is the question of competions, I would like to enter some at some stage as I think it would help me improve, but as metioned above most if not all of these competion are for .22s.

It not the end of the world, but I may consider getting a .22 at a later stage just for the above reason; however, with saying that I love the .17 and would not part with it for the world. Hope this helps a bit.

civdef

The Anschutz 1710 is a fantastic rifle, but expensive for a beginner tho maybe? Personally if I had that budget I'd be planning on a CZ or maybe a used Sako, with the rest to go on a good scope. Not much point in having a cheap scope & mounts on a top of the range rifle.

tfox

Personally I'd go for a .17HMR

Cracking round for rabbits and short range foxes, my first rifle was a SAVAGE .17, cost me €400 new, absolutely love it.

As for licensing it the Guards generally view calibres on there actually bullet diameter i.e 22lr, 22WMR, 22 Hornet/Swift, 22-250 are all viewed as .22's !! So couldnt see any problems with a round that is smaller than a .22...?

When I applied for my first 6.5 the firearms officer asked is that much bigger than .22 ? To which I replied only 1mm ( seeing as .22 is 5.5mm I was technically telling him the truth )

FOXHUNTER1

sfakiaman wrote: »

Maybe you should consider the Sako Quad http://www.sako.fi/sakoquad.php . You could start with the .22lr barrel and add a .22 wmr later as a spare barrel without the hassle of another licence. Sako make very good rifles. My own .22 is a CZ varmint and I'm very happy with it but could use the extra range and power of the .22 wmr for the odd fox. My .308 is a bit OTT for foxes near the house:D

You need a seperate licence for each barrel here unfortunatly.
In the uk they are sold as a kit but that don't wash here:rolleyes: