First time rifle purchase, options opinions.

Merch

sfakiaman wrote: »

Maybe you should consider the Sako Quad http://www.sako.fi/sakoquad.php . You could start with the .22lr barrel and add a .22 wmr later as a spare barrel without the hassle of another licence. Sako make very good rifles. My own .22 is a CZ varmint and I'm very happy with it but could use the extra range and power of the .22 wmr for the odd fox. My .308 is a bit OTT for foxes near the house[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Keith/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

That is interesting, I just had a quick look at the site and the clip showing the barrel change, I wonder if the spare barrels matched to the rest of the rifle? I'm thinking not,as then you'd be getting 4 barrels with the rifle, which doesnt seem right, looks nice, interesting option.

Sparks wrote: »

[broken record]Don't discount older second-hand rifles like the Vickers or BSA rifles[/broken record].
Yes, the trigger can be a little heavier than the best match actions, but they're still highly accurate and cheap as chips. The only difficulty can finding them in Ireland (we really need some enterprising gundealer to do a phone-round of gunshops in the UK to snag bits of their stock to import for resale here...). I'd definitely take one over any CZ/Bruno, and I've argued in the past that for a beginner, they're better than an anshutz (they're not actually better as match rifles you understand, just better at the specific application of being a training rifle for a beginner).

Have seen what looked like heavier rifles(particularily the barrel) they didnt look like they would be practical for target shooting from the standing position? are they fired from a rest/bipod? not sure what you mean by "match rifle", are competitions fired from a rest, standing or prone or all?
I've heard mentioned here somewhere about BSA and maybe Vickers too,they sound good and good to get the info, not so sure it might suit me, but Im not ruling anything out yet though.

I'll have to look into that anschutz 1710 and the Sako quad looks nice, good possibilities with it, maybe too much for my budget, but will see. I was recommended a CZ in the past (no specific model, just CZ).
I'd like to buy new, give me the option to buy exactly what I want but may end up seeing what is available second hand, so that might be a compromise, I feel it could be as good a purchase as new if looked after.

sfakiaman

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

You need a seperate licence for each barrel here unfortunatly.
In the uk they are sold as a kit but that don't wash here:rolleyes:

AFAIK you can buy spare barrels here if they are of the same calibre, it should make no difference if your licence is .22, whether it is .22lr or .22wmr. A dealer should be able to confirm.

bunny shooter

BUT are .22LR & .22 WMR the "same" calibre as with everything it depends on your FAO/Super/Chief Super :rolleyes:

FOXHUNTER1

You can buy as many barrels as you like but you will need a licence for each one as they all have different serial number printed on them.
I know a man up in the west waiting for his licence's for a quad with two barrels.
He checked with the policy unit before buying and they told him seperate licences required.

rrpc

Merch wrote: »

Have seen what looked like heavier rifles(particularily the barrel) they didnt look like they would be practical for target shooting from the standing position? are they fired from a rest/bipod? not sure what you mean by "match rifle", are competitions fired from a rest, standing or prone or all?
I've heard mentioned here somewhere about BSA and maybe Vickers too,they sound good and good to get the info, not so sure it might suit me, but Im not ruling anything out yet though.

'Match' rifle refers to what would be considered pure target rifles. They are single shot (no magazine) heavy barreled rifles usually with aperture sights (although a scope can be fitted with little difficulty). They are shot in all three positions: Prone, Standing and Kneeling. Generally you wear specialised clothing to assist in stayiing steady but no bipods or tripods, a single point sling is the only support you're allowed.

tac foley

Merch wrote: »

I've heard mentioned here somewhere about BSA and maybe Vickers too,they sound good and good to get the info, not so sure it might suit me, but Im not ruling anything out yet though.

BSA made sportiing .22 calibres rifles - four, in fact, if your counted the awful Raylock version. They were the Sportsman 5, the Supersport 5 and the Sportsman 15, so-called from its underbarrel fifteen-round capacity magazine. All were good sturdy and reliable guns, but have not been made since the early 1970's. If you find one in good condition, snap it up - they were the BRNO/CZ of the day, and still good shooters - there are about ten of them in our club.

BSA also made target rifles based on the Martini action single-shot rifle, from around 1912 to the beginning of the '70's. The BSA site is a mine of information here - http://rifleman.org.uk/News_Page.htm - and tells you about the Vickers' connection, too, as well as the Peabody/Martini/Francotte, War Office and Greener guns. The last hoorah of the BSA target rifle was the International MkIII, but it was unable to compete with the up and coming stuff from Anschuetz and Walther, and faded into the back of the club armouries.

Over here in UK, where a loal gun-dealer regularly sends 40 or 50 of them to the collectors in the USA, having bought them for their scrap value from gun clubs all over the country, I bought a genuine lefthand action BSA MkII with a full set of Freeland tube diopter sights, for £55. My BSA MkII Intl right-hander, with a unique laminated thumbhole stock, cost me £60. To be honest, they'll see me out, and both are 25yd one-holers and 50m five-shot raggedy-holers all the day long - an that's with GECO standard ammunition.

Until the ultra-fast Anschuetz trigger/lock design arrived on the scene they were the fastest of ALL .22 actions, and any good shot with one of these old stagers will certainly become a very good shot with a more modern design.

If you want to see some of my collection of .22 target and match rifles, have a look at the photo album on www.vcrai.com - and a peek at my unique takedown bolt-action BSA Model 1 on the BSA site I mentioned above.

Hope that helps.

tac

PS - I know of one dealer who built his new workshop on a concrete pad using BSA Martini actions as re-bar - about six or seven hundred of them, he recalled.

Merch

If a BSA came available I think I would have a look at it, if they are that cheap (and good). Seems a shame to pour concrete on them :eek:
I'm going to start getting on and joining a club/finding a rifle.
I saw a picture of a straight pull rifle somewhere on boards, are they common or rare?
Maybe it makes me sound lazy, but in biathalons, the guys there seemed to have very specific target rifles(probably match from reading the post 2 back by rrpc) but they looked to be pulling straight back on the bolt.

Would a straight pull be available as a standard .22lr or is a bolt action simply more accurate.

I really like the look of the sako quad and the possibility to swap barrels (even if it means getting a different licence) when I saw the picture on the sako website I thought for a sec it was straight pull but dont think so now. The Anschutz 1710 has gotten a few good reviews
having said that I think I will likely buy second hand, unless I just dont find anything I am happy with.
Thanks for the advice/opinions, all going well I hope to have something before the year is out. I'll update/ask opinions as I come across rifles for sale. I will keep an eye open on adverts and maybe look into the gunshops and see whats for sale.

tac foley

Merch wrote: »

Maybe it makes me sound lazy, but in biathalons, the guys there seemed to have very specific target rifles(probably match from reading the post 2 back by rrpc) but they looked to be pulling straight back on the bolt.

Would a straight pull be available as a standard .22lr or is a bolt action simply more accurate.QUOTE]

Sir - Biathlon rifles need to be a lot different for a lot of reasons, so the design of the action is different.

Paramount id the need for speed, hence the VERY fast straight-line action. ALL are .22LR these days.

It is called the Fortner straight-line action, and AFAIK is only found on Biathlon firearms. Made in VERY small numbers by Anschutz and Vostock, maybe others, I don't know, they are not cheap. I can't see any reason to have one if you are not into biathlon, but around 2500eu should see you with a nice second-hand one.

tac

tac foley

Amendment to above - the Russian company still making Fortner-action biathlon rifles is Izhmash.

Of the two, the Anschutz is marginally the better - especially below -30C. It also has a hollowed-out stock that lightens things up a bit. The Izhmash is built-like a tank, and feels like it after about ten km on the snow, but on the bonus side it has a good dry-fire mechanism that does not require you to dismantle the bolt and insert a training system, like the Anschutz does. But apart from the weight thing, you can only get really comfortable with the Russian gun if you have a head the size of an orange.

Apart from the curiosity value in Ireland, I'm not sure why anybody would want such a gun there, but with rather odd choice of guns standing in MY gun cabinets, I'd be the last man on earth to say so.

You'd probably have the only one on the entire island, and winsome young girls would be swooning and throwing themselves at your feet just to get a look at it.

tac