Christmas

timetogetfit

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

robindch

Every atheist I know has a great around the end of December, eating, drinking and giving presents. But I don't know any who "celebrate" christmas in the christian sense of the traditional birthday of a palestinian guy named Jesus who claimed he was sent by god to repair certain basic design flaws in the moral design of humans.

Here's a biggie -- are christians hyprocritical for using the words "Thursday" and "January"?

timetogetfit

robindch wrote: »

Here's a biggie -- are christians hyprocritical for using the words "Thursday" and "January"?

Forgive my ignorance but I don't know what you mean by that, but generally christians tend to be very hypocritical

Turtwig

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

If by Christmas you meant the birth of Jesus Christ and nothing else added, then maybe it is. But, to put it in another way, if someone was to offer you a party because a Fairy told them to do so, would the fact that the fairy doesn't exist mean you should declinethe good time and socialising you have been offered? Can you explain how attending such a party would be hypocritical? As I'm honestly struggling to see one.

If however by Christmas you meant, holidays, gift giving, aesthetic lighting, fibre optics and decorations, with a bit of a tree added on the side then No.

Shenshen

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

It would be if they went to mass and put up a little crib in their house and all.
But most of christmas is as secular as anything could be, it's a family get-together (or friends, if you're lucky ), there's food and drink and pressies. None of those have any religious significance, and neither does the tree.

Shenshen

timetogetfit wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but I don't know what you mean by that, but generally christians tend to be very hypocritical

Thursday is named after the Nordic god Thor, and January after the Roman god Janus.
Mind you, Friday is named after the goddess Freya, so that should make Christians stop and think as well.

A time of goodwill, lovely winter cold, gift-giving, what's not to celebrate!
I like to think it makes people a bit more compassionate toward their fellow man around that time too

pH

I thought there was a rule about no Christmas threads until at least Halloween, or am I thinking about in-store decorations?

It's time the Christmas hypocrisy was ended once and for all, even the most ardent and devout Christians admit that December 25th was not the actual date for the birth of Christ, but was a date *chosen* by the early church to have a *mass* celebrating his birth. The date chosen was the existing pagan solstice celebrations - man has been having a party at this time of year for longer than Christianity has been around.

I think it's time (atheist Ireland?) for a "Get Christ out of Christmas" campaign, returning this time of year to its true traditional origins of a good party with friends and family, Christians could then move their mass to perhaps mid-February and everyone would be happy.

Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

The Mad Hatter

Shenshen wrote: »

Thursday is named after the Nordic god Thor, and January after the Roman god Janus.
Mind you, Friday is named after the goddess Freya, so that should make Christians stop and think as well.

That's not to mention Odin's Day, nor Sun Day and Moon Day. The whole week's a pagan heresy!*

I believe the names of the days of the week were among the things that Robespierre and his lot tried to change in France, but needless to say, the new names didn't catch on.





*Off the top of my head, I can't remember what Tuesday and Saturday are named for...

Stercus Accidit

Didn't a roman leader hijack the pagan winter solstice and decide it would be a christian festival?

And doesn't the bible forbid the decorating of a tree?


Atheists are the only non-hypocrytes as fas as I can tell who celebrate by drinking, eating, giving presents, santa and bad TV.

Non of these secular activities of course enjoyed by the god fearing, in their place of worship, celebrating Jesus' birthday months away from when it is estimated to have happened, and of course, not a decorated tree or false idol of santa clause in sight. :rolleyes:

Doctor DooM

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

*Off the top of my head, I can't remember what Tuesday and Saturday are named for...

I'd make a wild stab that Saturday is Saturn.

A qwiki indicates Tuesday is rather disappointingly Mars (it's either Teiwaz of Deis Martis originally).

Dades

pH wrote: »

I thought there was a rule about no Christmas threads until at least Halloween, or am I thinking about in-store decorations?

But it's only 91 sleeps 'till Christmas!

(Yawn thread)

Ickle Magoo

Saturday is names after the Roman god of Time and Harvest, Saturn...Tuesday has evolved from Norse god Tiw...

Christmas to my family is about a fat guy in a red suit & sleigh, reindeer, putting stockings out, christmas tree, turkey and trimmings...none of it derived from the bible.

If it's perfectly acceptable for christianity to go around incorporating any and all celebrations in order that they not miss out on a feast or party, I don't see why anyone else is hypocritical for doing likewise. Christmas, easter, all predate christianity - I don't see why just because christians were so desperate to incorporate non-christians that they changed the date their lord was born/died (:eek: ) and re-branded ancient feasts that they suddenly become wholly christian celebrations.

Zombrex

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

Depends on what you mean by "Christmas"

If it is the birth of Jesus Christ then yes, but I don't think any atheists do celebrate that.

If it is the cultural holiday that has grown up around that time that involves over-indulgence and presents and Christmas trees and drinking I would think the only ones in a position to celebrate this are non-Christians (including atheists) as Christians really shouldn't be partaking in such wanton acts of indulgence. :pac:

MrPudding

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

Wow, it get earlier every year. I thought we didn't have to rationalise our hypocrasy until at least November...?

MrP

cavedave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

Shenshen

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Didn't a roman leader hijack the pagan winter solstice and decide it would be a christian festival?

And doesn't the bible forbid the decorating of a tree?


Atheists are the only non-hypocrytes as fas as I can tell who celebrate by drinking, eating, giving presents, santa and bad TV.

Non of these secular activities of course enjoyed by the god fearing, in their place of worship, celebrating Jesus' birthday months away from when it is estimated to have happened, and of course, not a decorated tree or false idol of santa clause in sight. :rolleyes:

I thought it was Mithras whose birthday first got celebrated on the 25th of December...

Liamario

Most Christians don't celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, so I don't see how it would be a problem for atheists.

But, as has already been mentioned (more eloquently than me), christmas has very little to do with Christ nowadays. Christmas is to Christ as much as Xfactor is to music

krudler

I think you'd find its more hypocritical for christians to claim christmas is a holiday exclusive to them. name nonwithstanding.

I call it Festivus anyway :pac:

sensibleken

Shenshen wrote: »

I thought it was Mithras whose birthday first got celebrated on the 25th of December...

i thought it was saturnalia?

either way its common knowledge that it was placed on a pagan festival.

personally i hate christmas for the following reasons

1. you have to buy people presents. I get people presents all the time, because im thinking of them or i think theyll like something. not because some fat turk once payed a dowry.

2. I go to the folks and am always forced to watch coronation street

3. im on-call this one so no booze

4. the clusterfúk that is shopping in december

5. christmas adds

5. money grabbing b*stards

halloween ftw!

Turtwig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9f0OD1p90o

Zombrex

cavedave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

Sweet Jesus

Liamario

There is definitely no hidden agenda in that movie /sarcasm

Myself and my girlfriend have renamed Christmas to a very RTE-esque title:-

'Present Giving Day'. It's a lazy title, but we felt it summed up the day quite well

Busi_Girl08

I'm going to start calling it Mithrasmas.

I'd say it would be a hoot to say after a few sherries.

krudler

and call Santa "annual gift man"
it works in Japan!

Malari

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

Are you suggesting atheists are hypocrites or are you an atheist yourself and having a crisis of conscience? Cos, y'know, atheists have no morals or conscience, so don't worry!!

krudler

Wicknight wrote: »

Sweet Jesus

hypocrite :pac:

The Mad Hatter

krudler wrote: »

and call Santa "annual gift man"
it works in Japan!

Ah - a Simpsons double-bluff. In Japan, Santa Claus is called Santa Kurōsu (or Santa-san):)

krudler

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Ah - a Simpsons double-bluff. In Japan, Santa Claus is called Santa Kurōsu (or Santa-san):)

does he live on the moon?

mailforkev

cavedave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

Oh sweet Jebus. Crappy with a capital C.

Jefferson from Married with Children really hasn't aged very well at all.

Dades

mailforkev wrote: »

Oh sweet Jebus. Crappy with a capital C.

Jefferson from Married with Children really hasn't aged very well at all.

I just can't believe there's another Baldwin brother in the 'business'.

Don't think I'll be renting that one this Holiday Season.

Daftendirekt

Shenshen wrote: »

I thought it was Mithras whose birthday first got celebrated on the 25th of December...

I think you're right. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe the Feast of Horus took place on the same day too.

sensibleken

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I think you're right. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe the Feast of Horus took place on the same day too.

i think thats some bull that came out of that zeitgeist movie.

Galvasean

cavedave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

Exhibit C in the case of why Stephen Baldwin has no money.

edit: it's Daniel! :eek:

Liamario

My parents are strong christians, but even they admit that Christmas is not about Jesus' birthday anymore. In another 50 years, this topic will be utterly moot.

krudler

cavedave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

"christians started the United States!"

yup, just like those devout christians Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson..


oh wait...

Like Robin Williams said, "they should change it from "one nation under god" to "one nation under Canada, but just above Mexico""

iguana

cavedave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0

Christmas is a proper noun and therefore always spelled with a capital C.

Zombrex

I can't tell if that movie is just totally ignorant or actually a rather sinister representation of right wing Christian America.

One line that stood out was the "cool religious guy" saying "Christmas is the only time the entire world (his emphasis) has this shared experience"

One images he means "entire world" in the way America Baseball has its "World Series" :pac:

Gregor Samsa

timetogetfit wrote: »

Is it not hypocritical for an atheist to celebrate Christmas?

Woah, we're atheists - which means we don't believe in God.

Doesn't mean we don't belive in Santa.

Anyway, even those of us who don't believe in Santa (the fools) celebrate Christmas because December 25th is Isaac Newton's birthday. Newton invented "Science", which is our religion, and "Gravity", which is the first of our many "Theories" which we use to indoctrinate children into our immoral way of thinking, others being "Evolution" and "Everything"

krudler

phutyle wrote: »

Woah, we're atheists - which means we don't believe in God.

Doesn't mean we don't belive in Santa.

Anyway, even those of us who don't believe in Santa (the fools) celebrate Christmas because December 25th is Isaac Newton's birthday. Newton invented "Science", which is our religion, and "Gravity", which is the first of our many "Theories" which we use to indoctrinate children into our immoral way of thinking, others being "Evolution" and "Everything"

to be fair the idea that a guy can travel around the world in one night on a magic sled pulled by flying reindeer isnt half as unbelievable as some of the bullsh1t the bible tries to claim happened.

Improbable

phutyle wrote: »

Woah, we're atheists - which means we don't believe in God.

Doesn't mean we don't belive in Santa.

Anyway, even those of us who don't believe in Santa (the fools) celebrate Christmas because December 25th is Isaac Newton's birthday. Newton invented "Science", which is our religion, and "Gravity", which is the first of our many "Theories" which we use to indoctrinate children into our immoral way of thinking, others being "Evolution" and "Everything"

Sorry, I know you mean well but statements like that while true for a lot of atheists isn't true for all atheists and leads to confusion. Atheists simply do not believe in a deity and that can be for scientific/non-scientific reasons.

As for the OP, even for religious people, christmas doesn't have heavy religious connotations even for the moderately religious. I've never seen anyone say anything at christmas except for santa, presents, food etc.

CiDeRmAn

Christmas isn't Christmas until someone is crying, and you don't have to be a C/christian to be the crier or cause of said crying.
When I'm in Argos, buying that thoughtful voucher, they don't ask to see my id to check I'm freudian (see what I did there), nor if I'm christian.
So I figure I can celebrate just like everyone else.
I celebrate eating sprouts, again, like clockwork, every 12 months.
I celebrate watching my family seeth at each other gently, my mum hoping dinner will end and people go home before sizzling fuse makes it to the acme barrel of TNT.
I enjoy Halloween too, no one checks my pagan credentials.
I enjoy Easter, no one looks in my back pack for two planks of wood and some sturdy nails.
So, to cut a long story short, a cultures feast days are defined by those elements of it's history that have shaped it and somehow remained relevant, hence New Years, Christmas, Easter and even Halloween have all got deep historical roots, buried in our rural, yearly farm calendar, as we celebrate fertility, sowing, reaping and so on. The religious stuff just got tacked on, out of convenience, out of a desire to co-opt local festivals into Christian ones, so the populace could simply side-step shuffle into a new faith, without having to alter the calendars.
And you can see it, world wide, in Islam, Judism, Christianity, Hinduism, they all have feast days around the same times.

Gregor Samsa

Improbable wrote: »

Sorry, I know you mean well but statements like that while true for a lot of atheists isn't true for all atheists and leads to confusion. Atheists simply do not believe in a deity and that can be for scientific/non-scientific reasons.

I think your Humourmeter may need recalibration.

jayzusb.christ

Christmas isn't Christmas until someone is crying, and you don't have to be a C/christian to be the crier or cause of said crying.
When I'm in Argos, buying that thoughtful voucher, they don't ask to see my id to check I'm freudian (see what I did there), nor if I'm christian.
So I figure I can celebrate just like everyone else.
I celebrate eating sprouts, again, like clockwork, every 12 months.
I celebrate watching my family seeth at each other gently, my mum hoping dinner will end and people go home before sizzling fuse makes it to the acme barrel of TNT.
I enjoy Halloween too, no one checks my pagan credentials.
I enjoy Easter, no one looks in my back pack for two planks of wood and some sturdy nails.
So, to cut a long story short, a cultures feast days are defined by those elements of it's history that have shaped it and somehow remained relevant, hence New Years, Christmas, Easter and even Halloween have all got deep historical roots, buried in our rural, yearly farm calendar, as we celebrate fertility, sowing, reaping and so on. The religious stuff just got tacked on, out of convenience, out of a desire to co-opt local festivals into Christian ones, so the populace could simply side-step shuffle into a new faith, without having to alter the calendars.
And you can see it, world wide, in Islam, Judism, Christianity, Hinduism, they all have feast days around the same times.

^^^ This.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Oh, wait, hang on...





(On a related note, much as I approve of the not-very-christian Christmas tree, I think the third week in September is just a tad early. Not looking at anyone in particular, the Central Hotel in Wicklow Street.)

Improbable

Gotta be ultra-wary with these religious types. They'll take any quote out of context as they've so readily demonstrated time and time again.

By this time next week, you'll be an eminent scientist proclaiming about the evils of atheism.

jayzusb.christ

Maybe I'll pretend to be a nazi till the heat is off...

cypharius

Also, is it just a coincidence that Christmas lines up with the summer solstice?

Truley

cypharius wrote: »

Also, is it just a coincidence that Christmas lines up with the summer solstice?

Nope, it would be miracle though :P

Ickle Magoo

Depends which hemisphere you live in....

jayzusb.christ

The medieval Christmas looked like an absolute blast.

http://www.castlearcana.com/christmas/day4.html

Man, it's way too early in the year to be talking about this