Virginia Executes Woman with IQ of 72

Carlos_Ray

38 males executed in USA so far this year. How many made the news or got people talking? One female is executed and suddenly everybody is expressing their disgust.

Plus I don't see how the fact that she is more intelligent than the average woman is relevant to the issue....

Columbia

She was found criminally responsible for the crimes, which means that she has enough faculties to tell the difference between right and wrong, as well as to plot the deaths of two innocent people.

Just because someone has a low IQ doesn't mean they can do no wrong.

SV

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Plus I don't see how the fact that she is more intelligent than the average woman is relevant to the issue....

IBL




in before liah

Flojo

SV wrote: »

IBL




in before liah

Lets all burn our bras! :pac:

LarrytheLantern

her sex ought NOT to be the issue, nor should her IQ level (unless she were deemed totally mentally retarded, which she were not).
also the facts of the case are not in doubt, so it seems the only thing folk are arguing about is, should she have been executed or not?

personally i do not like the death penalty, but there are certain crimes (ie crimes against children, &/or where unspeakable cruelty has been used), which if proven beyond all doubt (and it would need to be 100% imo) should attract the death penalty.

where we are dealing with these type of crimes, then i would not lose a minutes sleep if the perpetrators were hung, poisoned, electrocuted or stoned, although personally i would favour hanging as it's the cheapest and we are in a recession.

Nulty

Uriel. wrote: »

Lethal injection is (often) not a nice way to go.

Crazy that the two hitmen weren't given the death penalty as well. I guess they provided the the evidence that convicted her.

I've heard that about the LI before too. There are 3 injections. One paralyses you, the other knocks you out and the combination of the third kills you. I think there were reports that its impossible to tell if the knock out one has worked because the paralysing one means there is no indication from the 'victim'. With out the knock out one the person feels intense pain as they die. Don't quote me on this, this is all off the top of my non-medical head.

Conspiracy to commit murder was always far more serious in the States than the actual act of murder.

Nulty

LarrytheLantern wrote: »

her sex ought NOT to be the issue, nor should her IQ level (unless she were deemed totally mentally retarded, which she were not).
also the facts of the case are not in doubt, so it seems the only thing folk are arguing about is, should she have been executed or not?

personally i do not like the death penalty, but there are certain crimes (ie crimes against children, &/or where unspeakable cruelty has been used), which if proven beyond all doubt (and it would need to be 100% imo) should attract the death penalty.

where we are dealing with these type of crimes, then i would not lose a minutes sleep if the perpetrators were hung, poisoned, electrocuted or stoned, although personally i would favour hanging as it's the cheapest and we are in a recession.

Her IQ does have everything to do with it. Just because she is not a cabbage doesn't mean that she is capable of defending herself from manipulation. She should have been put in the zoo or something.

IMO

-Trek-

PeakOutput wrote: »

its not revenge although im sure the family of the victims feel like it is revenge. it is the state trying to protect its citizens from the future actions of a murderer.

once you deliberately and illegally take another human beings life you have no right to the protection of your life anymore and the state has every right to treat you as they see fit for the protection of the rest of society. weather this be life in prison or execution i dont care but the moment you went threw with murder is the moment you give up every other right imo

I was never defending the crime, but I definitely do not in believe that putting people down like common dogs is protecting citizens from future murders as you put it. There are others means of administrating justice/punishment that would be more effective, for example life with hard labour where the convicted can have plenty of time to think of their crime.
But aside from all that how effective is the Death penalty? its not like its curtailing the murder rate! so obviously it doesn't work as a deterrent and IMO merely acts as satisfaction for the public's primitive cry for blood to be shed.

Flojo wrote: »

Exactly and why should tax payers have to pay for them being cold calculated murderers, rid the planet of the scum... also over crowding in prisons if a major issue!
I just wish the justice system could be more accurate in who they execute to prevent innocent people being sent to death row, ie only choose it for people once they have the facts set in stone along with a confession maybe!

Don't even know how to respond to that comment :rolleyes:

goose2005

RMD wrote: »

The US think they've a high horse on the moral matter of the death sentence simply because they do it in a "humane" way. There is no humane way in execution, it's barbaric. Stoning is horrible, but just because the US use lethal injection doesn't make them any form of authority on the matter.

What they mainly object to is the fact that they stone people for things like adultery and renouncing Islam.

Flojo wrote: »

She actually did! "Lewis admitted organising the slaying of her husband Julian and his son Charles to claim their life insurance premiums."

Sounds clever enough to me. Couldn't she just have, you know, got the IQ test questions wrong on purpose?

Flojo

Trekmad wrote: »

Don't even know how to respond to that comment

Oh wow I have a different opinion to you... shock horror! :rolleyes:

goose2005 wrote: »

Sounds clever enough to me. Couldn't she just have, you know, got the IQ test questions wrong on purpose?

Yeah exactly she could have done that easily... even her lawyer stated that she does not have learning difficulties... she's just close to the mark!

clived2

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Plus I don't see how the fact that she is more intelligent than the average woman is relevant to the issue....

ScumLord

Documentary that was on BBC called how to kill a human. It goes through all the most popular execution methods and why they're far from humane, including the injection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBUtoh02ic

Son Of A Vidic

The American judicial system is based on your abilitiy to pay, the more money you have = the bigger & better lawyer you can afford. Justice for all my ar$e!

jugger0

Who cares if its humane, bring back the firing squad. Too many scumbags in the world, no point keeping them locked up(or in this countrys case released after half a sentence) imagine how much money we'd save too.

ScumLord

jugger0 wrote: »

Who cares if its humane, bring back the firing squad. Too many scumbags in the world, no point keeping them locked up(or in this countrys case released after half a sentence) imagine how much money we'd save too.

Killing scumbags won't stop them from happening in the first place it just drags the rest of society down to their level.

The death penalty just isn't a deterrent to these people it's just a way of getting rid of them, it's not cheap or a solution to any problem.

jugger0

ScumLord wrote: »

Killing scumbags won't stop them from happening in the first place it just drags the rest of society down to their level.

The death penalty just isn't a deterrent to these people it's just a way of getting rid of them, it's not cheap or a solution to any problem.

I agree of course they should be prevented in the first place, but abominations like pedos shouldnt be allowed live.

landsleaving

jugger0 wrote: »

Who cares if its humane, bring back the firing squad. Too many scumbags in the world, no point keeping them locked up(or in this countrys case released after half a sentence) imagine how much money we'd save too.

Whatever your opinion on the death penalty, the notion of instigating it to 'save money' is hardly going to be a ringing endorsement for the humanity of those who enforce the law.

In lighter news, the liberal* use of the word 'retard' in this case is quite strange, it's PC gone SANE! :pac:

*No, not leftys saying retard.

Dudess

Sanjuro wrote: »

And yet the US frowns upon Sharia Law so much. I'm not saying it's worse than Sharia Law, but those in glass houses....

I don't see though how the fact that there is still capital punishment in America therefore makes everyone in the West even the slightest bit of a glasshouse dweller (if that's what you're saying - sorry if it isn't). It wouldn't make me any less critical of Iran, but at the same time, I would be just as critical of the death penalty in the States (or anywhere). Overall though, America is still a better society for ordinary people to live in than an actual dictatorship.

Celly Smunt

just before everyone hops on the "stupid hypocritical americans" band wagon


http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0811/lyonsd.html

enfant terrible

Trekmad wrote: »

But aside from all that how effective is the Death penalty? its not like its curtailing the murder rate! so obviously it doesn't work as a deterrent and IMO merely acts as satisfaction for the public's primitive cry for blood to be shed.

Why does it have to be a deterrent.

In my opinion the justice system should protect the public from criminals and punish those guilty of crimes.

The death penalty does both of those pretty well.

Daroxtar

PeakOutput wrote: »

no method is instant. after being shot in the chest or even beheaded you are still very much alive for at least a few seconds after it happens

What about being shot in the head? I'd say that'd do the trick

LarrytheLantern wrote: »

she was tried and found guilty by a jury of her peers.
they were presented with the FACTS. we were not.

And to be her peers they would have an iq of 72 aswell so they'd be thick enough to find her guilty and sentence her to death

Linoge

Nulty wrote: »

I've heard that about the LI before too. There are 3 injections. One paralyses you, the other knocks you out and the combination of the third kills you. I think there were reports that its impossible to tell if the knock out one has worked because the paralysing one means there is no indication from the 'victim'. With out the knock out one the person feels intense pain as they die. Don't quote me on this, this is all off the top of my non-medical head.

Conspiracy to commit murder was always far more serious in the States than the actual act of murder.

Ultimately it doesnt really make a difference. They are dead minutes later, its not like they can remember being in pain! I think it is more important for their families to at least believe they died without pain, and if they are not showing any signs of pain what does it matter? Im sure in most cases these people are at least dying more peacefully than the people they have killed.

Either way, the death penalty is absolutely ridiculous. I wish they actually did stone people to death because the clinicalness of lethal injection only helps to hide the barbarism of it all.

ScumLord

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why does it have to be a deterrent.

In my opinion the justice system should protect the public from criminals and punish those guilty of crimes.

The death penalty does both of those pretty well.

The death penalty only happens after the crime has been committed and the convict would either be killed or sent to jail for life, it has no added benefit over a jail term. So it doesn't protect the public in any way. It is a punishment sure enough but it's not a deterrent and has no real value to the public.

Ush1

People do realise the difference between low IQ and mental illness don't they?

-Trek-

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why does it have to be a deterrent.

In my opinion the justice system should protect the public from criminals and punish those guilty of crimes.

The death penalty does both of those pretty well.

OK...but how does the death penalty punish? its effectively a free pass from a life time of guilt / jail for the condemned.
The only value I see in this barbaric practice is revenge for the families and keeping the electorate happy BUT not justice.

orourkeda

PaddyBomb wrote: »

I heard that her last words were something like "Wow, that was awesome".

Obviously she was mentally retarded. Because any person I seen using the word "awesome" looked mentally retarded.

Can anyone spot the grammatical error?

Overheal

jugger0 wrote: »

Who cares if its humane, bring back the firing squad. Too many scumbags in the world, no point keeping them locked up(or in this countrys case released after half a sentence) imagine how much money we'd save too.

Any basic googling would contradict you. The death penalty is far and away more expensive to implement than incarceration.

Four-Percent

thebaz wrote: »

do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?

Barbiturates, they shake it up in a can and you drink it, then they leave ye alone.

jugger0

Overheal wrote: »

Any basic googling would contradict you. The death penalty is far and away more expensive to implement than incarceration.

So a bullet to the head is more expensive then housing and feeding a serial rapist for 20 years? dunno about that man.

bop1977

jugger0 wrote: »

So a bullet to the head is more expensive then housing and feeding a serial rapist for 20 years? dunno about that man.

yes it is because all the appeals that go on before the execution costs a lot of money. there were several appeals before they killed her. and when it gets to the final appeal you are talking supreme court which has 9 judges. (OT only 2 judges supported her appeal the rest wanted her dead.)

mrbig

Dudess wrote: »

I don't see though how the fact that there is still capital punishment in America therefore makes everyone in the West even the slightest bit of a glasshouse dweller (if that's what you're saying - sorry if it isn't). It wouldn't make me any less critical of Iran, but at the same time, I would be just as critical of the death penalty in the States (or anywhere). Overall though, America is still a better society for ordinary people to live in than an actual dictatorship.

Nothing personal but the fact that America is not a dictatorship doesent make any difference when it comes to killing its citizens. I cant understand how a civilized country can justify such a record on state sanctioned murder.
How is this any better than Iran? does America kill people in a more civilized way ? or for more justifed reasons?
The fact that the USA is a democracy does not excuse this it just makes the citizens more responsible for it.

Rebelheart

losthorizon wrote: »

Virginia Executes Woman with IQ of 72

What are Cavan people doing executing people?

Herb Powell

losthorizon wrote: »

I dont know about that. One of the last times they used the electric chair in the US the guy being executed went on fire. They had to dowse him down and throw the switch again. Fairly awful.

Eduard Delacroix?
:pac:

Overheal

jugger0 wrote: »

So a bullet to the head is more expensive then housing and feeding a serial rapist for 20 years? dunno about that man.

You only don't know because despite a subtle hint, you still haven't appeared to have asked google about it. It's more like Bullets and a Mountain of Legal Expenses.

Tazz T

Our politicians have lower IQs and they get away with murder.

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

Any basic googling would contradict you. The death penalty is far and away more expensive to implement than incarceration.

Not necessarily. I believe the cost in China is about 30 cents, and the taxpayer doesn't need to pay for it: The family of the condemned is sent the bill for the bullet.

NTM

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not necessarily. I believe the cost in China is about 30 cents, and the taxpayer doesn't need to pay for it: The family of the condemned is sent the bill for the bullet.

NTM

In the Federal United States :rolleyes:;)

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

In the Federal United States :rolleyes:;)

That's just the system run amuck. There's no rational reason it should take twenty years for the appropriate legal checks and balances to be carried out. The process has become more important than the purpose. Unfortunately, a problem far too common in the US government today in all spheres, not only judicial.

NTM

Flojo

bop1977 wrote: »

yes it is because all the appeals that go on before the execution costs a lot of money. there were several appeals before they killed her. and when it gets to the final appeal you are talking supreme court which has 9 judges. (OT only 2 judges supported her appeal the rest wanted her dead.)

Its such a shame it's so expensive! Who exactly receives the money? I can't imagine how certain appeals cost millions. Life without parole prisoners get the same appeals and but its costs so much more. It makes no sense.

I agree with capital punishment to a certain extent for the absolute scum of the earth.. you know the people that make your blood boil when you read about the acts they have commited! For example, intent to murder and show no remorse, serial killers and child molesters that have no hope of rehabilitation.. does that even work anyways?
I think that not only does it give a certain sense of closure for the families of the victims but it would ease over crowding in prisions if it wasn't more expensive than life imprisonment and might be more of a deterrent if it happened more regularly. Also it would increase confidence in the justice system knowing that these animals would never be released into society again.

Life without parole prisoners may have cheaper appeal costs but what about their medical care, they're at greater risk to danger, being attacked inside for example and also when they age and the immense cost of geriatric care. Not only that but it makes them more dangerous to prison guards... they have nothing to lose and therefore can become more violent.

In my opinion you forfit your life once you intentionally take someone elses.

scientific1982

Cavan people really are lousy ****ers.

Dudess

mrbig wrote: »

Nothing personal but the fact that America is not a dictatorship doesent make any difference when it comes to killing its citizens. I cant understand how a civilized country can justify such a record on state sanctioned murder.
How is this any better than Iran? does America kill people in a more civilized way ? or for more justifed reasons?
The fact that the USA is a democracy does not excuse this it just makes the citizens more responsible for it.

What I'm saying is, just because there is capital punishment in America doesn't make it "hypocritical" for us in the West to criticise Iran - we have every right to criticise Iran.
And I absolutely abhor the death penalty and the death row system in the United States, but at the same time, American society for your average person is a nicer, easier one to live in than Iranian society.

LarrytheLantern

i think folk on here have been reading too many John Grisham books.
the woman was a double murderer.
now she's dead.
end of.

'tis a pity our lousy criminal justice system couldn't so efficient.

Ush1

Abit OT, but the worst case of a female criminal I've read about is Suzanne Basso.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/suzanne_basso/index.html

jugger0

Flojo wrote: »

Its such a shame it's so expensive! Who exactly receives the money? I can't imagine how certain appeals cost millions. Life without parole prisoners get the same appeals and but its costs so much more. It makes no sense.

I agree with capital punishment to a certain extent for the absolute scum of the earth.. you know the people that make your blood boil when you read about the acts they have commited! For example, intent to murder and show no remorse, serial killers and child molesters that have no hope of rehabilitation.. does that even work anyways?
I think that not only does it give a certain sense of closure for the families of the victims but it would ease over crowding in prisions if it wasn't more expensive than life imprisonment and might be more of a deterrent if it happened more regularly. Also it would increase confidence in the justice system knowing that these animals would never be released into society again.

Life without parole prisoners may have cheaper appeal costs but what about their medical care, they're at greater risk to danger, being attacked inside for example and also when they age and the immense cost of geriatric care. Not only that but it makes them more dangerous to prison guards... they have nothing to lose and therefore can become more violent.

In my opinion you forfit your life once you intentionally take someone elses.

I agree 100%

Serial killers and rapists should be executed without appeals, once your convicted of a crime like that, its lights out for you.

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's just the system run amuck. There's no rational reason it should take twenty years for the appropriate legal checks and balances to be carried out. The process has become more important than the purpose. Unfortunately, a problem far too common in the US government today in all spheres, not only judicial.

NTM

Ahhhh yes....

ascanbe

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's just the system run amuck. There's no rational reason it should take twenty years for the appropriate legal checks and balances to be carried out. The process has become more important than the purpose. Unfortunately, a problem far too common in the US government today in all spheres, not only judicial.

NTM

Yeah. Why bother with courts or trials or any of that nonsense. Waste of money.
As you alluded to earlier, America should be looking to China as an example; or better yet, Cambodia under Pol Pot.
Bullet to the head of anyone the authorities don't like the look of, no questions asked.

Misanthrope

Not as bad as Texas, where they let GW Bush,with an IQ of 9,sign execution warrants like they were autographs

Stinicker

The Death Penalty should be brought back in Ireland, I can think of many I'd send to a long drop with a short rope.

HavingCrack

thebaz wrote: »

do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?

Barbitutudes (or however you spell it!)

Rebelheart wrote: »

What are Cavan people doing executing people?

You didn't get a single like for that

jugger0 wrote: »

I agree 100%

Serial killers and rapists should be executed without appeals, once your convicted of a crime like that, its lights out for you.

Whatever about murder I don't think rape deserves the death penalty, it's far too much of a grey area.

Executed without appeal???? Eh what happened if the convictee is innocent?? There's been several cases where previously convicted prisoners were subsequently found not guilty. Under your system they'd already have been murdered by the state.

Flojo

I also believe they all should have received the death penalty seen as they all ended the lives of those two men! They don't deserve second chances.. once you're big and bold enough to know what is wrong, if you commit such a horrific act as estingushing two lives for money then that bad seed will always be there! Apart from when you get caught and start the sob story it seems... :rolleyes: