Peter Sutherland urges 'hard decisions'

iPlop

Former European Commissioner and Goldman Sachs International Chairman Peter Sutherland has said Ireland is in danger of losing credibility unless what he called 'hard decisions' on cutting costs are made.

He told the Institute of Directors in Dublin that Ireland's position in debt markets had deteriorated, despite the successful auction of €1.5bn of bonds earlier this week.

Mr Sutherland claimed that our costs - mainly but not exclusively on pay - were still far too high, and we had failed to measure our costs against those of other European countries.

'If we did so, it would be apparent that we are still way above average in many areas, particularly in the public sector and this says nothing about pension costs,' he said.

Mr Sutherland said lower prices and wages were 'essential' to avoid unemployment.

Referring to the €3bn of measures mentioned for the next Budget, he said more cuts could be found if the main political parties accepted that more was needed and were prepared to say so.

The former commissioner said cuts would be painful, but the alternative was much greater pain through the higher cost of borrowing.






Here we go again! The NWO represenitive for Ireland.Lets face it when he tells the government to do something they do it.When he came here for the Lisbon treaty, they showed him being greeted by the 3 main party leaders and they were all like cowering little servents when they met him ,particularly Eamonn Gilmore! It was like he was some kind of king or something! He is clearly putting out a warning shot at the government and I bet they will step up to the plate to show their loyalty!

More pain and suffering for the ordinary man! Yeah take more pay off me ,take my health care ,but you better force the banks to lower their interest rate ,cut at least 40% off everyones mortgage ,jail corrupt polititians ,and then people will be able to live on your "competitive" wages:rolleyes:

meglome

Septic Leper wrote: »

Former European Commissioner and Goldman Sachs International Chairman Peter Sutherland has said Ireland is in danger of losing credibility unless what he called 'hard decisions' on cutting costs are made.

He told the Institute of Directors in Dublin that Ireland's position in debt markets had deteriorated, despite the successful auction of €1.5bn of bonds earlier this week.

Mr Sutherland claimed that our costs - mainly but not exclusively on pay - were still far too high, and we had failed to measure our costs against those of other European countries.

'If we did so, it would be apparent that we are still way above average in many areas, particularly in the public sector and this says nothing about pension costs,' he said.

Mr Sutherland said lower prices and wages were 'essential' to avoid unemployment.

Referring to the €3bn of measures mentioned for the next Budget, he said more cuts could be found if the main political parties accepted that more was needed and were prepared to say so.

The former commissioner said cuts would be painful, but the alternative was much greater pain through the higher cost of borrowing.






Here we go again! The NWO represenitive for Ireland.Lets face it when he tells the government to do something they do it.When he came here for the Lisbon treaty, they showed him being greeted by the 3 main party leaders and they were all like cowering little servents when they met him ,particularly Eamonn Gilmore! It was like he was some kind of king or something! He is clearly putting out a warning shot at the government and I bet they will step up to the plate to show their loyalty!

More pain and suffering for the ordinary man! Yeah take more pay off me ,take my health care ,but you better force the banks to lower their interest rate ,cut at least 40% off everyones mortgage ,jail corrupt polititians ,and then people will be able to live on your "competitive" wages:rolleyes:

em you do realise the country is in total **** right? Mainly because we lost all semblances of competitiveness and we borrowed truck loads of money for houses that weren't worth a quarter of what people paid. The 'ordinary man' borrowed this money, no one forced them.

I also don't need to be an economics expert to realise if we cut bank interest rates and the value of their loans they become insolvent and they all fail or the state (all of us) puts more money in. Money which might well bankrupt the state. And why the **** should I subsidise people who borrowed more than they could afford (more than I already am that is)?

And to be clear everything he says is completely true.

iPlop

meglome wrote: »

em you do realise the country is in total **** right? Mainly because we lost all semblances of competitiveness and we borrowed truck loads of money for houses that weren't worth a quarter of what people paid. The 'ordinary man' borrowed this money, no one forced them.

I also don't need to be an economics expert to realise if we cut bank interest rates and the value of their loans they become insolvent and they all fail or the state (all of us) puts more money in. Money which might well bankrupt the state. And why the **** should I subsidise people who borrowed more than they could afford (more than I already am that is)?

I do realise that ,but what are people supposed to live on? fresh air! I didn't borrow more than I could afford ,I'm still in positive equity thankfully! The only debt I have is my mortgage ,no credit card ,car loan etc...But my wages have been slashed 37% including health care ,mortgage interest rates are going up! I have a comfortable lifestyle probably because I didn't get sucked into the easy credit frezy.But I know plenty of hard working people that are living on a knife edge and any more cuts will probably finish them for good! And if you cannot service your debts with the employment your in ,well there is no point working anymore is there!

meglome

Septic Leper wrote: »

I do realise that ,but what are people supposed to live on? fresh air! I didn't borrow more than I could afford ,I'm still in positive equity thankfully! The only debt I have is my mortgage ,no credit card ,car loan etc...But my wages have been slashed 37% including health care ,mortgage interest rates are going up! I have a comfortable lifestyle probably because I didn't get sucked into the easy credit frezy.But I know plenty of hard working people that are living on a knife edge and any more cuts will probably finish them for good!

As far as I remember 20% of the people in this country pay 70% of the tax. So the working man is doing quite nicely and paying fook all tax. The 'working man' is on some of the highest 'working man' salaries in Europe. No one forced anyone to live beyond their means. This country is on a knife edge and there is a lot more pain coming for everyone. We can only hope we don't end up entirely bankrupt.

iPlop

meglome wrote: »

The 'working man' is on some of the highest 'working man' salaries in europe.

The 'working man' is was on some of the highest 'working man' salaries in europe.The country is fooked ,but I don't see the point driving more people out of their homes and taking more money off them!Any way it was the government ,the banks and the builders that encouraged this "easy" cash ,the three main causes of the crap were in!

meglome

Septic Leper wrote: »

The 'working man' is was on some of the highest 'working man' salaries in europe.The country is fooked ,but I don't see the point driving more people out of their homes and taking more money off them!Any way it was the government ,the banks and the builders that encouraged this "easy" cash ,the three main causes of the crap were in!

The main cause of the crises we're in is the people we voted for. So while we didn't actually make these terrible decisions we kept voting for people who were making them. Maybe people will reflect on that at the next election.

The Recliner

Any reason why this thread is in this forum as opposed to the Irish Economy forum?

gizmo

The Recliner wrote: »

Any reason why this thread is in this forum as opposed to the Irish Economy forum?

Zero apart from the fact that Sutherland is a member of some groups which are on the CT hit list.

iPlop

Septic Leper wrote: »

Here we go again! The NWO represenitive for Ireland ,Peter Sutherland.

I suppose I was trying to get at the fact that it's possibly him and the EU that call the shots ,but we just ended up talking economics!The fact that he is the governments "advisor" makes some people suspect he's probably in charge! And he is obviously sending out signals to the Irish public to expect the worst!

robtri

Septic Leper wrote: »

I suppose I was trying to get at the fact that it's possibly him and the EU that call the shots ,but we just ended up talking economics!The fact that he is the governments "advisor" makes some people suspect he's probably in charge! And he is obviously sending out signals to the Irish public to expect the worst!

or maybe it possible, that the government follow his advice because he is good at his job and knows what he is talking about and how to try yo make things work out best for our country....

Torakx

Sutherland has been spotted meeting with bilderberg members and other high ranking business men that would be considered freemasons and/or reptiles.
The ct being these decisions are not in the interest of the general public or thats how i saw it myself.
I expect more cuts on thngs like social welfare and housing benefits considering there are so many of the general public using up those resources at the moment.

digme

80% of Anglo's deposits are from NON Irish citizens

iPlop

robtri wrote: »

or maybe it possible, that the government follow his advice because he is good at his job and knows what he is talking about and how to try yo make things work out best for our country....

Yes you could be right! But the government have been following his advice for a long time now and he may as well be in charge.They clearly are not.The EU sets budget guidelines and Peter is telling us what to do.Brian Cowan looks after local domesic issues like policing and local law and the EU and Peter decide what we live on! Well thats my take on it:) It doesn't matter who you vote for the EU are in charge....

gizmo

Torakx wrote: »

Sutherland has been spotted meeting with bilderberg members and other high ranking business men that would be considered freemasons and/or reptiles.
The ct being these decisions are not in the interest of the general public or thats how i saw it myself.
I expect more cuts on thngs like social welfare and housing benefits considering there are so many of the general public using up those resources at the moment.

Spotted? He's a member of the steering committee of Bilderberg and is Chairman of the Trilateral Commission. How much this worries you depends on how malevolent you think these bodies are of course.

Also, he's not making decisions, he's offering advice. Advice which, I may add, is sound and pretty much on bar with what most economists would advise.

digme wrote: »

80% of Anglo's deposits are from NON Irish citizens

Given that Anglo was a business/commercial bank that's hardly surprising?

digme

Given that Anglo was a business/commercial bank that's hardly surprising?

ya but not everyone knows that, whats my share in their company? ****ing *****

iPlop

digme wrote: »

ya but not everyone knows that, whats my share in their company? ****ing *****

1333 euros based on operating profit of 2.4 billion in March (before impairment charges).Their assets were 85 billion at the end of '09 so your share is 4722 euros based in 1.8 million taxpayers

gizmo

digme wrote: »

ya but not everyone knows that, whats my share in their company? ****ing *****

Well then people should educate themselves on the facts rather then running for the pitchforks to rabble when they hear figures such as these.

digme

Septic Leper wrote: »

1333 euros based on operating profit of 2.4 billion in March (before impairment charges).Their assets were 85 billion at the end of '09 so your share is 4722 euros based in 1.8 million taxpayers

i' wasn't expecting that haha,
i'll send that off so in my tax returns and attach a note explaining that to them.
what you think ? :cool:

digme

gizmo wrote: »

Well then people should educate themselves on the facts rather then running for the pitchforks to rabble when they hear figures such as these.

ya i think your right they certainly should.

The Recliner

gizmo wrote: »

Zero apart from the fact that Sutherland is a member of some groups which are on the CT hit list.

That is fair enough I didn't know that

Hopefully we can stick to that angle on things

iPlop

Anyway Back on topic! Does anyone else think Peter Sutherland calls the shots on the major economic decisions and budget matters in this country! And all the low level stuff is left to the lads in the Dail bar on a friday evening!

gizmo

Septic Leper wrote: »

Anyway Back on topic! Does anyone else think Peter Sutherland calls the shots on the major economic decisions and budget matters in this country! And all the low level stuff is left to the lads in the Dail bar on a friday evening!

Not in any shape or form. In fact, it'd be in the EU's best interests if we weren't in this position.

iPlop

gizmo wrote: »

.In fact, it'd be in the EU's best interests if we weren't in this position.

Of course I couldn't agree more.But we have to go cap in hand to them because of our situation.So if the government don't agree with Peter's advice the EU may make life difficult for us.You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you so to speak.In effect they are in charge be it covertly or whatever!

gizmo

Septic Leper wrote: »

Of course I couldn't agree more.But we have to go cap in hand to them because of our situation.So if the government don't agree with Peter's advice the EU may make life difficult for us.You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you so to speak.In effect they are in charge be it covertly or whatever!

We've been benefiting financially from the EU for quite some time so there's no reason they'd suddenly us off now. As for Sutherland's advice, he's not speaking on behalf of the EU, merely an Irish person with significant experience in this field. This is why I'd disagree with the assertion that they are in control in any way.

It's also why, imo, this thread is better left to the economy forum rather than the Conspiracy Forum.

TalkieWalkie

He was great in "The Lost Boys".

enno99

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

He was great in "The Lost Boys".

Did he also have a part in Grease Sorry Greece:rolleyes:

joebucks

Doesnt Sutherland hold the title:

Consultor of the Extraordinary Section of the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See. I.E Financial Advisor to the Vatican?

Maybe his views on this would be more pertinent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TWiLCVEolY

I found a decent article here by Fintan O'Toole regarding Sutherland's suitability to be giving advice

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0511/1224270130001.html

fontanalis

enno99 wrote: »

Did he also have a part in Grease Sorry Greece:rolleyes:

Think that was the Greeks.

Pete M.

In order to expand the CT here, could I suggest that Mr. Sutherlands participation in the Bilderburg Conference earlier this year, along with Paul Gallagher, the AG, and all of Shells top brass has something to do with the campaign against Shells operations in Mayo maybe not receiving as much attention in the media as it should?

Why haven't the calls for the nationalisation of these resources been given more attention?
And don't tell me it's because it's illegal :mad:

The arguments made previously in this particular thread by some are indeed, IMHO, for the economics forum, where folks can continue to debate how best to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.

alastair

Dunno about anyone else, but I've seen no shortage of media coverage of all aspects of the Shell pipeline dispute for a number of years now. Maybe if you've been living under a rock it'd seem different, but otherwise...?

Why haven't the calls for nationalisarion of mineral deposits been more to the fore? Maybe because we invested sod all in exploring for said mineral deposits so were never likely to find anything without doing a deal with the oil corporations, and it's a bit late now to complain that the terms of those deals were'nt particularly great from a national perspective?

gizmo

Pete M. wrote: »

In order to expand the CT here, could I suggest that Mr. Sutherlands participation in the Bilderburg Conference earlier this year, along with Paul Gallagher, the AG, and all of Shells top brass has something to do with the campaign against Shells operations in Mayo maybe not receiving as much attention in the media as it should?

It got plenty of media attention. Then they realised the majority of the protesters claiming it was damaging the local environment weren't from the locality at all and were just the usual rent-a-mob nuts.

Pete M. wrote: »

Why haven't the calls for the nationalisation of these resources been given more attention?
And don't tell me it's because it's illegal :mad:

No, it's because we have neither the means nor the funds to extract it ourselves.

joebucks

robtri wrote: »

or maybe it possible, that the government follow his advice because he is good at his job and knows what he is talking about and how to try yo make things work out best for our country....

You gotta be takin the piss Robtri!

He is good at his job, yes. Making money for Goldman Sachs and all their cronies at Bilderberg.

Look at Goldman Sachs position on Anglo and Quinn

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/goldman-plays-dual-role-with-quinn-group-2349547.html

Seeing as Sutherland is CEO of GS Int. How can you argue that he is talking about how to try make things best work out for our country??

joebucks

gizmo wrote: »

It got plenty of media attention. Then they realised the majority of the protesters claiming it was damaging the local environment weren't from the locality at all and were just the usual rent-a-mob nuts.

One-sided media attention.

This docu looks to give a fairer portrayal of the situation

http://www.thepipethefilm.com/

alastair

joebucks wrote: »

One-sided media attention.

Nonsense. The Shell-to-Sea case over Corrib has been given at least the same (if not more) coverage than the Shell one.

gizmo

joebucks wrote: »

One-sided media attention.

This docu looks to give a fairer portrayal of the situation

http://www.thepipethefilm.com/

A "fairer portrayal" should not be described as this:

...where the oil company decided to run a gas line, and the community decided otherwise.

The "community" did not decide otherwise, a vocal minority did which was then supplemented by groups who were not even from the locality. Locals were on the news, in the papers and even on Boards stating that they had been assured by Shell that the construction was safe and were satisfied with it but that they were annoyed at the "outsiders" coming in to make trouble.

This was also noted by Gardai at the time:

"Most of the faces, in fact all of the faces, were outsiders," said a senior garda source last night. "They want to cause trouble."

Pete M.

alastair wrote: »

Dunno about anyone else, but I've seen no shortage of media coverage of all aspects of the Shell pipeline dispute for a number of years now. Maybe if you've been living under a rock it'd seem different, but otherwise...?

Nope, ain't been living under a rock. Originally from Mayo and living in Sligo and I don't think there has been adequate or balanced reporting on the issue in the mainstream media at all. But maybe if you believe all the lies......

alastair wrote: »

Why haven't the calls for nationalisarion of mineral deposits been more to the fore? Maybe because we invested sod all in exploring for said mineral deposits so were never likely to find anything without doing a deal with the oil corporations, and it's a bit late now to complain that the terms of those deals were'nt particularly great from a national perspective?

We invested plenty, it was a punt for the exploration companies and for us. Except a certain Ray Burke and his FF cronies shafted all of us, you included btw.
And you reckon it's too late to complain? If my grandkids complain about having to pay back the Anglo bailout, I wouldn't tell them they were too late if something hadn't been done by then.
If we went back and told Shell we want to renegotiate or else then they'd have to wouldn't they?
The benefit to this Country would be MASSIVE. Think we could do with a little something like that right now.
We have to first start seeing, and treating, people like Sutherland & practically every politician, lawyer, banker and property developer etc. for what they really are......

gizmo wrote: »

It got plenty of media attention. Then they realised the majority of the protesters claiming it was damaging the local environment weren't from the locality at all and were just the usual rent-a-mob nuts.

So those protesting are just nuts? And there is nothing to see here? No swindling of the citizens of the state?
And the media coverage you think was adequate and balanced?
For a CT follower, you sure do tow the party line on this one eh?:rolleyes:

gizmo wrote: »

No, it's because we have neither the means nor the funds to extract it ourselves.

Well not now we don't that's for sure :mad:

But we don't actually have to do it ourselves you know. Nationalisation could take the form of a more reasonable contract between the extractor and the Country.

sligopark

<SNIP>

gizmo

Pete M. wrote: »

So those protesting are just nuts? And there is nothing to see here? No swindling of the citizens of the state?
And the media coverage you think was adequate and balanced?
For a CT follower, you sure do tow the party line on this one eh?:rolleyes:

I did not say those protesting are nuts, I said the rent-a-mob crowd were nuts. People in the locality have every right to complain and there were plenty of opportunities to do so in the appropriate forum. Many people were satisfied with this yet a few were not, should the entire operation be halted because of this vocal minority. By the way, in Nov '06 the following gentlemen gave a conference representing Shell To Sea, see any problems with it? Your CT follower comment is also amusing, I'm assuming you're relatively new to this forum?

Pete M. wrote: »

Well not now we don't that's for sure :mad:

No, we never had the means to do it. It would also have been idiotic for us to invest in the equipment required given the limited use it would have seen. As for the rate we received, to be honest there would have been people complaining regardless of the figure so there's no point debating it further.

Pete M.

gizmo wrote: »

see any problems with it? Your CT follower comment is also amusing, I'm assuming you're relatively new to this forum?

Well I suppose there's a lot of things which could be out of place in that photo...
And I'm glad I amuse you. Long time lurker and all that

gizmo wrote: »

No, we never had the means to do it. It would also have been idiotic for us to invest in the equipment required given the limited use it would have seen. As for the rate we received, to be honest there would have been people complaining regardless of the figure so there's no point debating it further.

This type of exploration is of course, the preserve of specialist outfits and yes it would be ridiculous for the Country to go out and buy the required equipment and training. I mean if we couldn't even get the election machines working...
As for the 'rate' we're receiving, it is an insult and a scandal and warrants debate until we get what is ours.
Ireland retains no share of the gas and oil and no royalties. A tax rate of 25% on profits after right off of all exploration and overhead (including projected costs of cleanup) is the best Ray could get.

No other Country in the world would put up with it.

There's no point debating it further?

Yeah right...

We should get Sutherland to renegotiate it maybe

sligopark

Pete M. wrote: »

We should get Sutherland to renegotiate it maybe

and proper screw our passive a$$es

pass the vaseline Pete :D

gizmo

Pete M. wrote: »

Well I suppose there's a lot of things which could be out of place in that photo...
And I'm glad I amuse you. Long time lurker and all that

Well yes, the photo highlights my problem with most of the protesting that went on down there. As for me, well while lurking you may have no noticed I don't buy into many of the CTs around here so I most definitely don't fall in line.

Pete M. wrote: »

This type of exploration is of course, the preserve of specialist outfits and yes it would be ridiculous for the Country to go out and buy the required equipment and training. I mean if we couldn't even get the election machines working...
As for the 'rate' we're receiving, it is an insult and a scandal and warrants debate until we get what is ours.
Ireland retains no share of the gas and oil and no royalties. A tax rate of 25% on profits after right off of all exploration and overhead (including projected costs of cleanup) is the best Ray could get.

No other Country in the world would put up with it.

See protesting about the rates negotiated I could accept no problem, but that's not what they had to put fences around the area in Mayo for nor call for increased Garda presence due to possible sabotage attempts.

As for debating further I simply mean that there would be people complaining no mater what rates we got therefore there's no point in us debating it on thread.

iPlop

Look! I originally stated that I suspected Peter Sutherland or the EU was telling the government what to do.As in the government were not really in charge and I stand by that Here the EU advise the government to lay out a 4 year plan

and here 1 day later the government announce the 4 year plan

To Me that means Ireland is being told what to do! Am I missing something? I thought we decided what to to ,no? This seems to be that it doesn't matter who is in power we have to bend and kneel to our overlords in Europe! Peter Sutherland is the real leader of this country in an economic sense as he is the advisor to Mr Cowan! In other words

Peter: "Brian you do this or else mate" ,
Brian: "yeah no bother ,keep me a place on the trilateral commission will ya";)

gizmo

Septic Leper wrote: »

Look! I originally stated that I suspected Peter Sutherland or the EU was telling the government what to do.As in the government were not really in charge and I stand by that Here the EU advise the government to lay out a 4 year plan

and here 1 day later the government announce the 4 year plan

To Me that means Ireland is being told what to do! Am I missing something? I thought we decided what to to ,no? This seems to be that it doesn't matter who is in power we have to bend and kneel to our overlords in Europe! Peter Sutherland is the real leader of this country in an economic sense as he is the advisor to Mr Cowan! In other words

Peter: "Brian you do this or else mate" ,
Brian: "yeah no bother ,keep me a place on the trilateral commission will ya";)

What you're missing is the order of events...

The Government's initial statement:

Government plans to squeeze €3 bn from its budget for 2011 and 2012 and has pledged to get its deficit to the EU limit of 3pc of GDP by 2014 but has not laid out specific ways to meet that goal.

EU look at that and say more detail is needed. Then...

Ireland confirms four-year budget plan in November

steelcityblues

Sutherland = fat, corrupt pig on board the EU gravy train!

Best not to take any of his comments at face value.