Liverpool Vs. Sunderland Setanta Sports 1 3.00pm 25/09/10

The Muppet

niallo27 wrote: »

Honestly your freaking me out a bit, thats 62 posts from me now you have quoted in the last 2 weeks, i need a bit of space

Wow thats impressively wierd.:p

DOC09UNAM

niallo27 wrote: »

Honestly your freaking me out a bit, thats 62 posts from me now you have quoted in the last 2 weeks, i need a bit of space

fairly Doubtful, this is the first time i've quoted you in a week, good defence argument though, you must realise you're talking shíte

niallo27

The Muppet wrote: »

Have you forgotton you finished 7th last season?

Yes and the manager was sacked because it wasnt good enough, thats what we are told, if he was sacked for this reason we must be a better side than 7th

Mr Alan

there's **** all difference between our first choice 11 & the first choice 11 that came close to winning the title the season before last. our squad has been eroded a little with the desire to start making a profit in the transfer market becoming a priority in the last couple of seasons, but the difference isn't huge at all.

we should still be performing comfortably better than we are this season.

last season a lot of our problems came from horrendous injuries we suffered. that was our first choice 11 today & virtually all of em have been available all season so far (our first choice 11 beat Sunderland 3-0 at Anfield last season).

people said all last year that the players didn't believe in the manager anymore, as i read somewhere the other day, its quite clear that was wrong, they don't believe in the club anymore. and they won'd do until the cancer within it is removed. Mourinho/Capello/Ferguson couldn't get this team playing decent football & winning matches imo, what we did was get rid of one of the few positives at the club & replaced our manager with a hugely inferior one, there was no logic to it, but people wanted change for changes sake. well, now they've gotten it & I hope they are happy.

imo we could be looking at a bottom half finish if we pick up a few injuries, which we inevitably will.

Roy has set out his goal for this season, to challenge for the top 4.

Well that's exactly what we did last year, and it was deemed a monumental failure.

niallo27

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

fairly Doubtful, this is the first time i've quoted you in a week, good defence argument though, you must realise you're talking shíte

63 now, are you saying you didnt send me abusive PMs also

stumpypeeps

Mr Alan wrote: »

there's **** all difference between our first choice 11 & the first choice 11 that came close to winning the title the season before last. our squad has been eroded a little with the desire to start making a profit in the transfer market becoming a priority in the last couple of seasons, but the difference isn't huge at all.

we should still be performing comfortably better than we are this season.

last season a lot of our problems came from horrendous injuries we suffered. that was our first choice 11 today & virtually all of em have been available all season so far.

people said all last year that the players didn't believe in the manager anymore, as i read somewhere the other day, its quite clear that was wrong, they don't believe in the club anymore.

imo we could be looking at a bottom half finish if we pick up a few injuries, which we inevitably will.

Roy has set out his goal for this season, to challenge for the top 4.

Well that's exactly what we did last year, and it was deemed a monumental failure.

Huge difference, never underestimate the value of Xabi Alonso and Mascherano that season. Plus Gerrard and Torres were flying it.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

there's **** all difference between our first choice 11 & the first choice 11 that came close to winning the title the season before last. our squad has been eroded a little with the desire to start making a profit in the transfer market becoming a priority in the last couple of seasons, but the difference isn't huge at all.

Mascherano and Alonso surely consitute a little more than f*ck all difference? Take the midfield base out of any team and they'll do significantly worse - especially a midfield good enough to now ply its trade at Madrid and Barca.

Mr Alan

Gerrard & Torres only played about 50% of our title challenging season if I remember right.

(i've subsequently edited the post your replied to)

Mr Alan

flahavaj wrote: »

Mascherano and Alonso surely consitute a little more than f*ck all difference? Take the midfield base out of any team and they'll do significantly worse - especially a midfield good enough to now ply its trade at Madrid and Barca.

Well we've Meireles, Poulson, Gerrard (who has now seemingly been moved back into CM) & Aquilani to fill those two spaces.

Its a definate downgrade, but not to the same extent as our performances have suffered. People really should look at Alonsos performances over 4 seasons, not just his last like they do.

rossie1977

niallo27 wrote: »

Im not saying the squad hasnt gotten worse, ****en hell, i have being the hardest on board on transfers out of anyone here, we have lost a few players, i know that, but not enough to justify going from 2nd to whereever we will finish up

fair point, its not like liverpool are the only ones, chelsea have lost ballack, carvalho, cole, deco and Belletti over the summer but nobody is expecting them to now fall to 5th

when scolari was in charge the fans and media were making excuses for chelsea, squad not good enough, players too old

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well we've Meireles, Poulson, Gerrard (who has now seemingly been moved back into CM) & Aquilani to fill those two spaces.

Its a definate downgrade, but not to the same extent as our performances have suffered. People really should look at Alonsos performances over 4 seasons, not just his last like they do.

None of those players is a direct replacement for Alonso though. Aquilani certainly wasn't and from my limited viewings of Meireles he looks like a more all action type player.

There is no pairing off that list you have posted that could hold a candle to Masch/Alonso as a midfield base.

As with any situation there are certainly more factors involved than the loss of Alonso/Masch - but take the engine room out of any team and replace it with a markedly inferior pairing and you have a very good starting point for a general disimprovement in results and performances.

Cartman78

Cartman78 wrote: »

That was the worst home display i've seen in 25 years following Liverpool.

The 'big name' players (Cole, Gerrard, Torres) were utterly anonymous and showed no leadership. Johnson is a liability - everyone knows he can't defend but now he can't attack either. Even Reina looked shaky today - if I was a Sunderland fan I'd be gutted at dropping 2 points against a shambles of a team like that.

Can't see where we're going from here. Yes - the takeover/finance issue is a distraction but can't excuse crap like that on the pitch

Just in from the game, we were very poor after we let in the first goal until after we let in the second but though we did well early in the first half and played good stuff at the end. I was expecting more positive stuff here.

I thought Cole had a great game today, he was definitely far from anonymous, I'm really starting to like Merelies and Gerrard did ok some great tackles and got the goal. Torres tried and was alive for the goal and set up the second. we had some great passages of play and one touch passing.

The team that finished today should start the next day, we looked so much better playing 4-4-2. I still dont know how we didnt win we were very unlucky and Agger needs a kick for missing that chance at the end. Sunderland were lucky to get a point, saying they should have won is way off.

niallo27

flahavaj wrote: »

None of those players is a direct replacement for Alonso though. Aquilani certainly wasn't and from my limited viewings of Meireles he looks like a more all action type player.

There is no pairing off that list you have posted that could hold a candle to Masch/Alonso as a midfield base.

As with any situation there are certainly more factors involved than the loss of Alonso/Masch - but take the engine room out of any team and replace it with a markedly inferior pairing and you have a very good starting point for a general disimprovement in results and performances.

It happened to utd as well, they lost keane and a scholes could play every week and they replaced them with lesser players, didnt affect them that much

Mr Alan

its so funny, cause when we had Mascherano & Alonso, they got sooo much stick for not being creative enough. the players we have now are slightly more creative....imo what we have now should be nearly as effectual over the course of a league campaign, but far less competitive in a competition like the CL (taking into account that we shouldn't have loaned Aquilani out).

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well we've Meireles, Poulson, Gerrard (who has now seemingly been moved back into CM) & Aquilani to fill those two spaces.

Its a definate downgrade, but not to the same extent as our performances have suffered. People really should look at Alonsos performances over 4 seasons, not just his last like they do.

Isn't aquilani gone out on loan?

stumpypeeps

Mr Alan wrote: »

its so funny, cause when we had Mascherano & Alonso, they got sooo much stick for not being creative enough. the players we have now are slightly more creative....imo what we have now should be nearly as effectual over the course of a league campaign, but far less competitive in a competition like the CL.

Alonso is one of the most creative players in world football. Are you smoking banana's or something?

The Muppet

niallo27 wrote: »

It happened to utd as well, they lost keane and a scholes could play every week and they replaced them with lesser players, didnt affect them that much

If the players are not the issue what is?

niallo27

The Muppet wrote: »

If the players are not the issue what is?

The manager i would think, not good enough

IvySlayer

Miriam Vast Tailor wrote: »

Just in from the game, we were very poor after we let in the first goal until after we let in the second but though we did well early in the first half and played good stuff at the end. I was expecting more positive stuff here.

Liverpool were awful, Sunderland got tired.

I thought Cole had a great game today, he was definitely far from anonymous, I'm really starting to like Merelies and Gerrard did ok some great tackles and got the goal. Torres tried and was alive for the goal and set up the second. we had some great passages of play and one touch passing.

Cole was rubbish. Gerrard was dominated by the Sunderland midfield for a lot of the game. Merelies wasn't much better. Torres was OK, but doesn't look enthusiatic.

The team that finished today should start the next day, we looked so much better playing 4-4-2. I still dont know how we didnt win we were very unlucky and Agger needs a kick for missing that chance at the end. Sunderland were lucky to get a point, saying they should have won is way off.

I don't think Roy could alternate much. What other options has he? Liverpool certainly did not deserve to win. Sunderland made Liverpool look very ordinary.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

Isn't aquilani gone out on loan?

Yea, he shouldn't be.

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Alonso is one of the most creative players in world football. Are you smoking banana's or something?

His kind of creativity is not what usually falls into the definition of a creative midfielder . He keeps the ball ticking over constantly & has a great range of passing, but he is not "creative" in the way that the likes of Kaka, Ozil, Iniesta are creative.

The Muppet

niallo27 wrote: »

The manager i would think, not good enough

what would you have liked yo see him do differently?

stumpypeeps

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yea, he shouldn't be.



His kind of creativity is not what usually falls into the definition of a creative midfielder . He keeps the ball ticking over constantly & has a great range of passing, but he is not "creative" in the way that the likes of Kaka, Ozil, Iniesta are creative.

Eh, I'm lost for words.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

If the players are not the issue what is?

the issue is that while the club is being raped by its owners, the players have clearly lost belief.

last year, that and horrendous injuries & a poor performance by the manager resulted in us falling down the table.

so what we've done to fix it is, sack the manager and replaced him with someone not nearly as good. this appeases the media hacks & retards in our fanbase, although they are now left scratching their heads wondering how last years problems have actually gotten worse this year!

if we suffer the same injuries we did last season, our league performance will be considerably worse (as it already has been, without the injuries!)

if we don't & stuff goes for us this season, we'll challenge for the top 4, like we did last season.

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

Cole was rubbish.

You were obviously watching a different, he had a good game today I actually said he had an excellent game to a lad who asked me how he played., good running, some great passes and hold up play.

We were all over them for nearly 30 mins and luck is all that saved Sunderland along with poor finishing and a last ditch tackle.

If we had any luck in games this season we would be right up near the top of the table. Had we managed to win today we would only have been 3 points off second. Its a crazy season things could change very fast!

Mr Alan

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Eh, I'm lost for words.

good, maybe we'll get a bit of peace & quiet

Helix

niallo27 wrote: »

The manager i would think, not good enough

same issue as last season then? manager not good enough to get players performing the way they should be?

or possibly that said players have stopped overachieving and found their level?

or something in the middle?

#15

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Eh, I'm lost for words.

Eh, why, Mr Alan is correct.

niallo27

Helix wrote: »

same issue as last season then? manager not good enough to get players performing the way they should be?

or possibly that said players have stopped overachieving and found their level?

or something in the middle?

Well Rafa proved he was good enough

stumpypeeps

#15 wrote: »

Eh, why, Mr Alan is correct.

Xabi Alonso is one of the most creative midfielders playing the game. Many call him a playmaker, he makes the play, he creates the play, he's creative.

Honestly.

8-10

Miriam Vast Tailor wrote: »

You were obviously watching a different, he had a good game today I actually said he had an excellent game to a lad who asked me how he played., good running, some great passes and hold up play.

I thought he was poor. Offered little in terms of linking midfied and attack which is where he should be and a few very poor passes when good opportunities were developing.

Nothing as bad as Glen Johnson however. Truely shocking performance from somebody England considers as their best right-full.

#15

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Xabi Alonso is one of the most creative midfielders playing the game. Many call him a playmaker, he makes the play, he creates the play, he's creative.

Honestly.

Oh, I see you didn't even read what he said. Never mind then.

spockety

I suspect some of the people lamenting the loss of Mascherano are the same ones who used to say he should never be played at home particularly to opposition like Sunderland?

Helix

niallo27 wrote: »

Well Rafa proved he was good enough

so 7th was the level of the players last season? lower finish expected this time around after the loss of mascher then, even if woy performs as well as rafa did, since rafa was good enough and brought those players to a 7th place finish?

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

His kind of creativity is not what usually falls into the definition of a creative midfielder . He keeps the ball ticking over constantly & has a great range of passing, but he is not "creative" in the way that the likes of Kaka, Ozil, Iniesta are creative.

I find it funny that you defend lucas to the hilt on here yet refuse to acknowledge the quality that alonso braught to the side.

I'm not surprised mind, I'm used to your banality at this stage.:)

stumpypeeps

#15 wrote: »

Oh, I see you didn't even read what he said. Never mind then.

I couldn't be bothered, your boring me to tears.

niallo27

Helix wrote: »

so 7th was the level of the players last season? lower finish expected this time around after the loss of mascher then, even if woy performs as well as rafa did, since rafa was good enough and brought those players to a 7th place finish?

Well i like to look at the manager over his whole time at the club, the European cup finals, CL football every year, thats the level Rafa was at.

#15

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I couldn't be bothered, your boring me to tears.

Makes a change from you crying about Ferguson in the Utd thread.

jesus_thats_gre

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I couldn't be bothered, your boring me to tears.

Very poor quality posting..

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

I find it funny that you defend lucas to the hilt on here yet refuse to acknowledge the quality that alonso braught to the side.

I'm not surprised mind, I'm used to your banality at this stage.:)

I aint denying the quality Alonso brought to the side, i loved the man.

I'm not surprised Liverpool had a bad result & here you are again posting like a ****, used to that at this stage too.

stumpypeeps

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Very poor quality posting..

Ha ha ha. Its the quality police.:D

stumpypeeps

#15 wrote: »

Makes a change from you crying about Ferguson in the Utd thread.

Ah now we get to the root of the issue. Somthing I posted 3 months ago is still affecting you. Thats a little sad, I just shed a tear, bless.

#15

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Ah now we get to the root of the issue. Somthing I posted 3 months ago is still affecting you. Thats a little sad, I just shed a tear, bless.

No, you were at it just a few days ago as well.

It's amazing how you manage to simultaneously piss off everyone in both the Utd and Liverpool threads.

Anyway, to get back on topic, read Mr Alans post again.

jesus_thats_gre

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Ha ha ha. Its the quality police.:D

He is making a valid point and is being pretty diplomatic in his post. You can't provide a valid argument to the contrary and are just resorting to the same old nonsense that you generally do.

niallo27

I wouldnt say stumpy pisses us off, we just have different opinions on stuff

stumpypeeps

#15 wrote: »

No, you were at it just a few days ago as well.

It's amazing how you manage to simultaneously piss off everyone in both the Utd and Liverpool threads.

Anyway, to get back on topic, read Mr Alans post again.

I'm actually washing my hair but I'm sure I'll get to it at some point.

#15

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'm actually washing my hair but I'm sure I'll get to it at some point.

Don't forget to comprehend it.

jesus_thats_gre

niallo27 wrote: »

I wouldnt say stumpy pisses us off, we just have different opinions on stuff

I would say that his posting style and the high liklihood to reduce the argument to complete nonsense pisses off a significant number.

Helix

niallo27 wrote: »

Well i like to look at the manager over his whole time at the club, the European cup finals, CL football every year, thats the level Rafa was at.

Was being the key word. Emile heskey WAS one of the most highly rated english prospects at one stage. I think we saw from xmas 08 onwards that rafa didnt have what it took any more. Plus last year he didnt get the club cl footie

stumpypeeps

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I would say that his posting style and the high liklihood to reduce the argument to complete nonsense pisses off a significant number.

lol.

D'Agger

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I would say that his posting style and the high liklihood to reduce the argument to complete nonsense pisses off a significant number.

A poor mans SOTS, I've said yesterday and I'll say it again - I miss the man :pac: