The Bible - one book at a time

Fanny Cradock

"What is this thread about?", you might ask.

Well, several months back it was suggested that we examine the Bible - each book, each chapter and each verse. Being realistic, one has to admit that this is a huge undertaking and even if this thread doesn't bomb, it seems safe to assume that it is effectively an open-ended project. But this is not to say that we can't make enlightened progress and have some memorable arguments along the way.

So the rough plan is to take a book of the Bible and discuss it in blocks of around 20 verses (or whenever a natural break occurs) before we move onto the next block of verses - all this over week long intervals. In other words, week 1 would be verses 1 to 20, week 2 would be verses 21 - 40 and so on. We might find that these figures need be adjusted as we go along.

A few ground rules:

1) The goal of this thread is to try and gain an understanding of the authors' intended meaning in each book they wrote.

2) In principle this thread assumes that the Judeo-Christian God exists as presented in the Bible and each poster accepts the Nicene Creed. If you can't agree to these assumptions then don't not post. People wishing to question assumptions made in this thread are welcome to start a new discussion in the forum, remembering to adhere to the charter at all times. All off topic posts will be deleted.

3) We quote the weekly body of text (for example, Week 1 verse 1 to 20) from one translation of the Bible. I suggest the NIV as it is easily accessible and quite lively in language. This isn't to say that we shouldn't discuss other translations - people are welcome to read whatever version they choose - but for continuity I think it is best to stick to a single version when starting each week.

Some useful resources:

http://www.biblegateway.com/ - loads of translations found here
http://www.biblegateway.com/ - a dictionary, lexicon, concordance etc.
http://bible.cc/ - compare multiple translations at the same time

Fanny Cradock

John 1:1-15 (New International Version)

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

Brief Introduction to John - NIV and Blue Letter Bible

Gospel of John (Stream) - an excellent lecture by Archbishop Rowan Williams on the Gospel of John, its history and themes. Be warned: it's a long talk! (Download form here)

Anyway, the experiment is let loose, so feel free to post any thoughts you have on the verses above.

alex73

Good Start, Johns Gospel I always found interesting. You could have a thread alone on what "word" means in itself. Since St. Johns Gospel was written in the 1st centuary in greek the English translation totally missed the meaning.

georgieporgy

great idea for a thread. difficult to comment on the first few verses other than to say I believe/agree with the whole thing. certainly difficult to improve on it.

georgieporgy

some poorer translations insert "a" in the third phrase so it reads "the word was a god" instead of "the word was god" .

small word big diff

JohnOneOne

georgieporgy wrote: »

some poorer translations insert "a" in the third phrase so it reads "the word was a god" instead of "the word was god" .

small word big diff

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation Bible and its rendering of John 1:1, it may interest you to know that there is soon to be published an 18+ year study/reference work (as of 09/2010) in support and explanation of their wording of this verse (especially within the third clause with "a god") entitled, "What About John 1:1?"

To learn more of its design and expected release date, we invite you to visit:

Good Companion Books

Agape, JohnOneOne.

alex73

JohnOneOne wrote: »

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation Bible and its rendering of John 1:1, it may interest you to know that there is soon to be published an 18+ year study/reference work (as of 09/2010) in support and explanation of their wording of this verse (especially within the third clause with "a god") entitled, "What About John 1:1?"

To learn more of its design and expected release date, we invite you to visit:

Good Companion Books

Agape, JohnOneOne.

I don't want to side track this thread.. But the word Jehovah appears 237 times in the JW New Testament in places where it does not appear in the extant Greek manuscripts.

Also to post in this Thread you have to believe in the Nicene Creed.

JohnOneOne

alex73 wrote: »

I don't want to side track this thread.. But the word Jehovah appears 237 times in the JW New Testament in places where it does not appear in the extant Greek manuscripts...

Yes, and, unknown to many, such is also the practice of most every Bible Translation Society on earth today, that is, when rendering the Bible into other foreign languagues as well.

See also:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/na/article_06.htm

http://jehovah.to/exe/greek/yhwh.htm

http://paintingpictures.xanga.com/505733764/item/

Agape, JohnOneOne.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

santing

May I suggest to compare the given translation with the NET Bible - the advantage of the NET Bible is that it comes with a lot of translation (and other notes) online.
http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n2

I agree that this one - and the introduction of 1 John and Hebrews 1 are among the most beautiful passages in the Bible! I have heard of a preacher who started to preach on John and after a year still was stuck at John 1:1! (So maybe we can start another mega-thread). Apart from being a beautiful passage, it could also be used as an executive summary of the book - everything that follows is already said in the first 14 verses.

The first verse has actually a peculiar ending if you read it in the original. It states "and God was the Word."

The first verse also has a parallel with verse 6 "There came a man..." or "There was a man." The Word was in the beginning, John came. The word "came" is the same word as "made" as in verse 3. The Word always was, everything else is made. Compare also with verse 10 "He was in the world, and ... the world was made through him"
Then in verse 14 it says "The Word became flesh" - the same as in "came" or "made." The Word was God (verse 1) and it became flesh (14). Verse 14 then also gives the purpose: He "made his dwelling among us." Note that "made his dwelling" is a reference to the "tabernacle," just as the tabernacle in Exodus was built so that God could dwell amongst his people, so God now became flesh in order to dwell amongst his people. The Shekinah Glory was here! And when God took up his dwelling place, the book of Exodus finishes, and Leviticus starts: the book that taught the people how sinful man could worship a holy God - because that was why God wanted to dwell amongst his people then and now as well. So verse 14 continues: "We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
God is here and we are his worshipers.

I love the NIV translation of "One and Only" in this verse, in French it is translated "unique" and that is the proper meaning. Noone comes close, noone can compare to the Lord Jesus. He is "full of grace and truth" - which is further explained in verse 16 & 17.

santing

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The Word is a reference to God incarnate, God visible. When in the Old Testament God appears (often as "the Angel of the Lord") it was always the Lord Jesus, or better God the Son.
Paul says it as follows in Colossians:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. ... For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell (Col 1:15, 19 ESV)

Like saying "Here is a picture of something invisible". What do you see? But in this case, God invisible was visible, because God became visible. That is one of meanings of "the Word." Hebrews 1:1-3 gives another light on this:

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. (Heb 1:1-3 NIV)

In the past God spoke through the prophets, but now (as final revelation) he spoke in the person of His Son. Again, when Jesus spoke, God spoke not because Jesus was inspired by God (although that is true as well), but because Jesus was God. Lastly, a reference from Isaiah.

Why, when I [the LORD] came, was there no man; why, when I called, was there no one to answer? Is my hand shortened, that it cannot redeem? Or have I no power to deliver? Behold, by my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a desert; their fish stink for lack of water and die of thirst. I clothe the heavens with blackness and make sackcloth their covering." The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught. (Isa 50:2-4 ESV)

This passage starts with a complaint of God that He could find no-one on earth to answer Him - because we were sinners and separated from God. Then God shows the answer - the servant in Isaiah 50:4 again the same principle. In order for God to be understood, God needed to become a man, but a man with "the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary."


So Jesus is the Word means a.o.

• He is fully God yet became man,
• He is the only manifestation of God and therefore also the full and final manifestation
• Everything God ever had said was actually the Lord Jesus speaking
• He is also the creator - because God spoke things into being

Plowman wrote: »

Also, if Jesus as the logos was "with God in the beginning" where does the Holy Spirit feature, or has John only chosen to focus on two aspects of the Triune God?

It is a mistake to presume that God is (always) a reference to God the Father and not to God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. If it is possible, I remind myself when reading the word God that it refers to the "Triune God". So also here: "The Word was with the [Triune] God and God was the Word." You notice that we cannot repeat [Triune] the second time, so it does not always make sense to add this word!
Above I already quote from Colosians:

For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell (Col 1:19 ESV)

I would say that the words "fullness of God" here actually means "Triune God." The whole trinity, Father, Son and Spirit dwelled in Christ when He was on earth - and still lives in Him (Col 2:9)

alex73

The New Testament that I read is a trilingual Latin/Greek/Spanish version
NUEVO TESTAMENTO TRILINGUE (ISBN: 8422008343 ) JOSE M. BOVER Y JOSE O'CALLAGHAN. I mainly read St. John in Latin and will switch between Greek and Spanish if I don't know a word.

St. Johns is without a doubt one of the deepest/mystical of the 4 Gospels.

JimiTime

santing wrote: »

The Word is a reference to God incarnate, God visible. When in the Old Testament God appears (often as "the Angel of the Lord") it was always the Lord Jesus, or better God the Son.

Indeed this interpretation is also referenced when the soldiers cease him in Getsemane. The soldiers ask him if he is Jesus the nazerene and he says 'I AM'. Seems insignificant, until we think back to Moses and the burning bush when the voice from the bush says 'tell them I AM sent you'. Also, when Jesus replies 'I AM' the soldiers all fall backward.

PDN

I love the dual idea here that He became flesh so that we could become sons of God. This sums up, for me, the wonder of the Incarnation.

I like how John Calvin put it in his "Institutes of the Christian Religion":

Submitting to our poverty he has transferred to us his riches, assuming our weakness he has strengthened us by his power, accepting our mortality he has conferred on us his immortality, taking on himself the load of iniquity with which we were oppressed he has clothed us with his righteousness, descending to the earth he has prepared a way for our ascending to heaven, becoming with us the Son of man he has made us with himself the sons of God.

hinault

This is a great thread - some really interesting insights being put forward.

keep up the good work.

hinault

alex73 wrote: »

The New Testament that I read is a trilingual Latin/Greek/Spanish version
NUEVO TESTAMENTO TRILINGUE (ISBN: 8422008343 ) JOSE M. BOVER Y JOSE O'CALLAGHAN. I mainly read St. John in Latin and will switch between Greek and Spanish if I don't know a word.

St. Johns is without a doubt one of the deepest/mystical of the 4 Gospels.

Craddock is a hard taskmaster:D
He couldn't have picked a more complex place to start.

hinault

Chapter 20 of St John's Gospel is intriguing : he identifies Peter and one other disciple at the sepulchre who he doesn't name.
Interesting. I wonder which disciple was he referring to?

And of course, John refers to Thomas, doubting Thomas, to whom Jesus revelaed himself.

I think Thomas represents all of us.
We all dount from time to time and even though Thomas knew Jesus and was one of his followers, his faith had been tested
in the days immediately after the Crucification.

antiskeptic

John 1 wrote:

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

Jesus the light of men (implying all men), Jesus being the light given to every man (implying all men).

It would appear that the goodness men exhibit - even though they are lost - stems from the light given to them. Even though in darkness and not understanding the light (in the sense of understanding from whence it comes) they enjoy it in their lives. If so then a reason why they cannot claim credit for it - the light in them doesn't stem from them. Their own righteousness would indeed be filthy rags.

This would seem to tie in which mans intrinsic knowledge of good and evil, that knowledge stemming from the light installed in them. So they are truly without excuse.

And would seem to counter the (Calvinistic) doctrine of Total Depravity - a doctrine incidently which we don't actually witness in the world. Bad though the world is, it could most certainly be worse. Yet isn't for some reason.

Perhaps the light of men is the agency involved here in restraining mans sinfulness.

alex73

hinault wrote: »

Craddock is a hard taskmaster:D
He couldn't have picked a more complex place to start.

"HE", I thought Cradock was a woman..


But Yes the thread is a very good one!

hinault

alex73 wrote: »

"HE", I thought Craddock was a woman..


But Yes the thread is a very good one!

Original FC was female.

Boards.ie Fanny Craddock? I always assumed FC was male but I could be wrong!

santing

We haven't spoken in detail about Life and Light yet.
Both feature again later in the gospel of John:

• "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. (Joh 6:35, 6:48 ESV)
• "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (Joh 8:12 ESV)
• As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." (Joh 9:5 ESV)
• "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live" (Joh 11:25 ESV)
• "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (Joh 14:6 ESV)
• ... his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1Jn 5:20 ESV)

In him was life, implying that in Him only is life. We are "dying creatures" and spiritually already death. Only in Him is life and He came to give it to us. So the life speaks of the Eternal Life, which includes a continuous happy fellowship with God. The presence of that life on earth confronts darkness - and as the NIV rightly translates "the darkness does not apprehend it!

Note: here we have great scientific insight! darkness is absence of light, so darkness stays dark if it doesn't "reflect" light. This verse is written by someone who knew that you can shine into a void and have no effect, because there is nothing relfecting the light.

That the darkness doesn't apprehend the light speaks of course volume. The Creator is rejected in the 5th verse of John's Gospel, and John Gospel displays a continuous battle between light and darkness.

Therefore the light gets help. John the Baptist comes to witness of the light.

Fanny Cradock

John 1 is probably one of my very favourite chapters of the Bible. As with much of John, lying underneath the short, sharp and simple prose, which I think is often so beautifully written that is would better described as elevated prose, there is some very dense and difficult theology to be found.

Fanny Cradock

Here is the next instalment... late, of course. Fell free to take this thread and move it along yourselves. Just make sure to quote the section in full (as below).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202&version=NIV

John 2

Jesus Changes Water to Wine
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."

4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]

7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.

8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."

They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

Jesus Clears the Temple
12After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.

13When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

17His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

18Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

20The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

23Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.[c] 24But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. 25He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.

Jesus Changes Water to Wine
John tells us in v11 that only after Jesus preforms this miraculous event do the disciples put their faith in him, which I find very interesting. I wonder could this puzzling verse be explained by the expectations the Jews had in the messiah - the ruler who was ordained by God to restore Israel - and the unexpected type of messiah that Jesus was turning out to be? In other words, perhaps they (his disciples) began to think that there was something more to this Jesus chap.


Jesus Clears the Temple
This section is noteworthy (tbecause John recounts Jesus' first run-in with "the Jews" - the catch-all phrase for the forces of opposition that will again and again challenge Jesus throughout the Gospel. I can't help but wonder if people throughout history, already tainted with anti-Semitism and utterly ignorant of the fact that Jesus was himself a Jew, read John's words and curse "the Jews"?

lionmqj

Hi I just copied this from another thread called "the wedding at cana, what does it mean to you"


Verse 4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."

Jesus was brisk with His mother (not disrespectful). "What have I to do with you He says, My time has not yet come".
But He goes ahead and does what she asks anyway.




Verse 6 - 7
"6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim."

He tells His servants to fill some purification jars.
These waterpots were used by the Jews for ceremonial cleansing. They were vessels that made people pure!
Not an accident.
Jesus gave us an acted out parable of His own death and His own blood and what it would mean.
He would be the final purifier for sins!

Ritual cleansing was now over (see the book of Hebrews) and also
(Rev 7:13-14
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.)






Verses 9 - 10
9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The bridegroom symbolizes Jesus and the good wine is His saving blood which was kept until now.
He is the all providing bridegroom.
The people of God (the church) are His bride.

Rev 19:7-8
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The life giving wine of His death in our place never runs out. He is the perfect all providing husband for the church.
Salvation is in Him ............. plus nothing else.

lionmqj

lionmqj wrote: »

Hi I just copied this from another thread called "the wedding at cana, what does it mean to you"


Verse 4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."

Jesus was brisk with His mother (not disrespectful). "What have I to do with you He says, My time has not yet come".
But He goes ahead and does what she asks anyway.




Verse 6 - 7
"6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim."

He tells His servants to fill some purification jars.
These waterpots were used by the Jews for ceremonial cleansing. They were vessels that made people pure!
Not an accident.
Jesus gave us an acted out parable of His own death and His own blood and what it would mean.
He would be the final purifier for sins!

Ritual cleansing was now over (see the book of Hebrews) and also
(Rev 7:13-14
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.)






Verses 9 - 10
9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The bridegroom symbolizes Jesus and the good wine is His saving blood which was kept until now.
He is the all providing bridegroom.
The people of God (the church) are His bride.

Rev 19:7-8
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The life giving wine of His death in our place never runs out. He is the perfect all providing husband for the church.
Salvation is in Him ............. plus nothing else.

Verse 11 He thus revealed His glory!

John 13:27a - 32 NIV "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.
31When he was gone, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. 32If God is glorified in him,URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2013&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26652c"]c[/URL God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once.

PDN

John's Gospel is very carefully crafted. The author tells us that a multitude of books could be written on all the things Jesus did, but John has carefully selected certain things that are intended to lead the reader to life-giving faith in Jesus (John 20:30).

The book is constructed around seven miraculous signs, and also around seven "I am" sayings of Jesus (echoing God's self-designation to Moses from the burning bush in Exodus Chapter 3).

The event at Cana, turning water into wine, is the first sign, revealing Jesus to be the Lord of Creation, with control over all the created order. Therefore the turning of water into wine (a process that normally occurs naturally over many months through grape vines etc) can happen in an instant, with no intermediaries, at the words of Jesus.

This illustrates, and supports, the author's declaration (in Chapter 1) that Christ was present at Creation and everything was made through Him. Because He created the water, the vines, the enzymes, and everything else involved in wine production, so He can exercise His lordship over those elements and processes.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

John's Gospel is very carefully crafted. The author tells us that a multitude of books could be written on all the things Jesus did.

I always considered that to be a knowingly hyperbolic remark from John. Although there have been many libraries of books written about Jesus and the books of the NT so perhaps not.

Splendour

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Jesus Changes Water to Wine
John tells us in v11 that only after Jesus preforms this miraculous event do the disciples put their faith in him, which I find very interesting. I wonder could this puzzling verse be explained by the expectations the Jews had in the messiah - the ruler who was ordained by God to restore Israel - and the unexpected type of messiah that Jesus was turning out to be? In other words, perhaps they (his disciples) began to think that there was something more to this Jesus chap.

Also interesting about this is his mother, who also had yet to see any of Jesus miracles, had a strong enough relationship with him to know and trust he could perform such a wonder.

lionmqj

PDN wrote: »

The book is constructed around seven miraculous signs, and also around seven "I am" sayings of Jesus (echoing God's self-designation to Moses from the burning bush in Exodus Chapter 3).

Hi PDN.
What are the seven "I am" sayings of Jesus?

marty1985

1. Bread

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.” John 6:35

2. Light
“I am the light of the world; he who fallows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have thelight of life.” John 8:12

3. Gate
“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and findpasture.” John 10:9
4. Good Shepherd
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11
5. Resurrection and Life
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” John 11:25
6. Way, Truth, Life
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6
7. True vine
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1

Piano man

I think it's important to mention the importance of the Wedding Feast of Cana in Marian devotion.

Here's an extract from Scott Hahn's interpretation, which can be found here:
http://www.catholic-pages.com/bvm/hahn.asp

Theologians have suggested that John has deliberately just loaded the first few chapters of his gospel with the symbolism and the keys to interpreting his Apocalypse and the more you soak and meditate and ponder, I think the more you will find. So, she approaches him and says, "They've run out of wine. 'Woman, what is this between you and me?'" It's a very interesting phrase. I would recommend for your study a book by a top Biblical scholar in America, Manuel Miguens, who wrote a study on what does it mean, the Semitic idiom, what to me and to you, woman?" He actually shows that there is nothing caustic or irritated about Jesus' reply at all. It's basically, "You know, there's nothing between you and me."

So anyway, "Jesus said to her, 'Woman, what is it between you and me? My hour has not yet come." Jesus is thinking that the best wine will be given at the hour. What does Mary say? Mary is assuming another posture, now. She is going to have to distance herself from her son as her son. Now he's addressing her not as Mother, but as Woman. It sure connotes in my mind Genesis 3:15 and other key passages. Now all of a sudden, you are not just my mother anymore, what you are talking about in this miracle would initiate a whole new economy of salvation, woman, because that's what she is to be, a New Eve, a Mother to all of the renewed and redeemed humanity. "Woman, my hour has not yet come." What does she say, "Awe, come on, what are you going to do this for your mother, and now we're friends." No. She turns to the servants and says to them exactly what she says to us and all those who are truly devoted to our Lady, "Do whatever he tells you."

JimiTime

marty1985 wrote: »

1. Bread

“I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.” John 6:35

2. Light
“I am the light of the world; he who fallows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have thelight of life.” John 8:12

3. Gate
“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and findpasture.” John 10:9
4. Good Shepherd
“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11
5. Resurrection and Life
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” John 11:25
6. Way, Truth, Life
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6
7. True vine
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1

Not to put a kink in the whole '7 I ams':), but the reference below is quite powerful. Notice when he says I am, the soldiers fall to the ground. Quite powerful stuff.


John 18

3So Judas, having procured a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4Then Jesus,(F) knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, (G) "Whom do you seek?" 5They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he."[a] Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6(H) When Jesus said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

Not to put a kink in the whole '7 I ams':), but the reference below is quite powerful. Notice when he says I am, the soldiers fall to the ground. Quite powerful stuff.


John 18

3So Judas, having procured a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4Then Jesus,(F) knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, (G) "Whom do you seek?" 5They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he."[a] Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6(H) When Jesus said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

Indeed. The seven 'I am' sayings are generally viewed as those which have a description or title attached - but there's also the one you quoted there, and of course John 8:58 “Truly, Truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am”.

lmaopml

PDN wrote: »

Indeed. The seven 'I am' sayings are generally viewed as those which have a description or title attached - but there's also the one you quoted there, and of course John 8:58 “Truly, Truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am”.

For me, this is the most powerful mirror of Exodus 1, the nature and name of God, 'simple' but still a mystery in so many ways - and the Trinity!