The laughable social welfare.

wolfnight

This is more of a rant more so than anything however here is my story.


I am an Irish Citazin all the way back to the 1800s on my Mothers side and 2 generations on my Fathers, I have an Irish Passport, Irish Birt cert, I done all my education in schools in Bray and Wexford and, up until I was 18 lived and worked in Ireland.


I moved to England a few months after my 18th Birthday and because I managed to get such a cheap flight I did not get around to signing off the welfare before I left (I was on it for 3 weeks) however I did send a letter explaining the situation 3 days after I left Ireland and did not collect my last "payment".

After almost 4 years in London, a break up with my Ex and a false arrest in which I was put on remand in Prison for 44 days until my Solicitor could prove that I wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, I moved back to Dublin and moved in with a friend (Unable to stay with family) but I could mainly only use it as a postage address as I was due to sleep on a few friends sofa for a couple of weeks until I found a place however now I am staying with a friend on a perm basis but can not use the address due to issues with landlord.


I first went into the Welfare office in Dun Laoghaire on the 9th of Augest and got an apointment for the 10th, I was asked to only bring in my Passport and a letter from who I was staying with confirming I was there, at this time I asked the person if that would be everything I would need, I asked this twice and was told both times it was.

The next day I had my apointment, she re-opened my old file but told me that because I stoped payment without any notifcation at all (they claim they never recived my letter even though I sent it recorded delivery and confirmed they recived it) that they would have to deal it as a new cliam, after half an hour going through all the details she infomed me that I didn't bring in all the documents needed and made me out as a lier that the other person would never say that it would be enough, she asked me to come back with my Birth cert, a utility bill for the address I was in and she requested my Prison release forms which I informed her I did not have, she left it on the sheet but told me it would not be an issue if I didn't have them, I made her confirm this verbally and asked again, would that be all, she said yes.

I got everything together and went in again on the 12th of Augest, went through everything and she took the birth cert, took the bill then asked where the Prison release forms were, I said I did not have them as I had them safely stored in London and told her it would not be possible to get them, she then said that she was not willing to forward the claim until I had the forms... (bare in mind, this was the same woman who not 2 days ago confirmed that it would be ok if I did not have them) she then gave me till Tuesday the 17th (1 week) to provide them or my claim would be closed...

After a frantic couple of days, expensive calls to London, countless emails and faxes I finally got someone to get my files and fax me copies of it, I went back in on Monday the 16th of Augest.

I got the same woman again, she took the file, took one look at it and said "Oh, this is useless, I will add it but it won't help and I will continue your claim" to which I almost felt like going beserk, she then dismissed me and when I asked her how long would it take to recive word on if I was accepted and when payment starts she replied with "you will find out when we process it" and even asking her a time frame all she said was "It could take a week, it could take a month, you never know"

I went to the front desk, asked the person at the office and he informed me that the waiting time was anything up to 4 weeks but ring for updates.

I range every week, always to the same answer, "it is still in process, you will recive a letter with a reply soon"

This happened for over a month, I have no money to live on, went to the CWO who denied the claim for emergancy due to lack of a permanent address.

On Thursday the 16th of September I recived a letter, bare in mind I am as I said at the start of this as Irish as Irish can be, "One of the Qualifying conditions is that you must be habitually resident in the state"

They then asked me for two more documents, either, "Evidence of transportation of personal possessions to the state" (I did not have my ferry ticket stub as it was taken on the coach, I had recipt of purchase which was bought 4th of Aug for Travel on 7th but did not state that) and a recipt from the ferry for exchange of £150 (all the money I had in my life)

Or, "Proff of cessation of your Employment in England" I did not have this to hand, however my Ex (who was also my boss) wrote a letter to the officer to confirm employment and explain why I never recived a p45 (they kept it as I was going to be a casual worker if and when needed but the need never arose after December)

"Evidence of closure of financial accounts and transfer of funds to the state" this one I couldn't provide, back in 2008 I had someone use my identiy to take out loans, credit cards and it got me black listed, my bank account I had was closed and I could not get another one, I reported it to the police but nothing happened and I got no documentation to explain this.


To ensure that they understood I was back to stay I included a 3 page A4 letter explaining everything, why I went to London, what I done there, why I came back, why I have no documentation that they want and my plans when I am back in Ireland, I sent that the Thursday and they recived it the Friday (sent by courier) it is now Sunday the 26th of September, 47 days after I first applied and I still have not had any desicion.

That is my story, can anyone provide any information that may help?

beagle001

The social welfare has tightened up bigtime with all new claims because of the false claims from the eastern europeans and others they need concrete evidence you are here permanently and not skipping over to Ireland every few weeks to claim benefits.
I understand your angst at the situation as it seems in the past few years a shift has taken place that it means nothing that you are an Irish citizen and we are now classed under some eu bull--it blanket,example prove you are resident of Ireland for 3yrs for the grant even though you may well be born and bread here.
We should be giving preference to Irish citizens,I cannot imagine what it will be like here in 20 years with all this nonsense.
Keep persisting with your claim and make yourself heard it is the only way you will get anywhere.
Best of luck

Nonoperational

So you went off to the UK without signing off, lived there for a bit, got arrested, came back and now your complaining that you have to provide some documentation and prove you are habitually resident in the state before you get your free money? Seems completely reasonable to me especially as you are living in a place without the landlord knowing and cannot provide a permanent address. Boo hoo.

Mr Benevolent

gpf101 wrote: »

So you went off to the UK without signing off, lived there for a bit, got arrested, came back and now your complaining that you have to provide some documentation and prove you are habitually resident in the state before you get your free money? Seems completely reasonable to me especially as you are living in a place without the landlord knowing and cannot provide a permanent address. Boo hoo.

+1. Proper order.

mikemac

The delay isn't good but it's understandable

I'm reassured the social welfare officers are so thorough

RichardAnd

That story reminds me of why I never drew the dole. I was unemployed for 6 month about a year ago and whilst I was entitled to the SW, I never claimed it as I had savings, no expenses and I was making some cash from various odd jobs.

I do understand however, that we can't just give out the dole without proof that a claimant is truly in a situation to claim. But that being said, I think we should revise the system a little bit. If it was up to me, I would try to find a way to allow people to sign on and receive their payments (providing proof of course) without having to queue up. At the end of the day, the unemployed are human beings and they should not have to stand in line like men waiting for bread during the great depression.

Unemployment is going to be high for some time, we should at least give people some dignity and privacy.


EDIT: Having re read the OP more carefully, I must say it's really surprising the SW officers are hesitant to open the purse for him. The rest of my post stand however

Name Changed

gpf101 wrote: »

So you went off to the UK without signing off, lived there for a bit, got arrested, came back and now your complaining that you have to provide some documentation and prove you are habitually resident in the state before you get your free money? Seems completely reasonable to me especially as you are living in a place without the landlord knowing and cannot provide a permanent address. Boo hoo.

Yea, I agree with this. It is completely reasonable for them so check it out.

wolfnight

gpf101 wrote: »

So you went off to the UK without signing off, lived there for a bit, got arrested, came back and now your complaining that you have to provide some documentation and prove you are habitually resident in the state before you get your free money? Seems completely reasonable to me especially as you are living in a place without the landlord knowing and cannot provide a permanent address. Boo hoo.

I went over to the UK and while I did not sign off at the office due to only getting a ticket to travel on the Friday night for travel on the Sunday I couldn't get to the office before it closed, however as I mentioned I sent the registered letter the Monday from the UK (which I made sure to check was recived and signed for)

As for getting arrested, I got arrested for a crime that was commited half an hour walk from where I was that night by a person of a different race than me, the English legal system is so bad it took them 44 days for them to realise that and get around to releasing me.

I don't Expect free money, it is the fact that I have bent over backwards to provide everything they can after them saying different things and then when I am looking for the basic information on what is going on they tell me nothing, if they decline me they decline me, but it is the lack of information and the way that I am being trated that is diving me nuts.

Enter Username

If I was processing your claim I would be very suspicious about the validity of it also, every doc you have been asked for you could not produce with a big story behind each one.

liammur

Here's another story about welfare from today's indo:

Just four months ago, unemployed settled Traveller Patrick Dooley bought a 2007 Renault Traffic van worth between €8,000 and €15,000.
The van is currently parked outside Mr Dooley's €300,000 home at Forest Close, a pretty enclave of houses at Ballyspillane, on the eastern edge of Killarney, Co Kerry.
Mr Dooley has not worked for 18 months and is currently in receipt of €2,280 a month in social-welfare payments, including €1,000 a month in state subvention to pay for his mortgage, taken out with sub-prime lender Start Mortgages, and €320 a week in unemployment benefit.
Details of Mr Dooley's purchase of a three-year-old commercial van, at a time he was receiving significant amounts of taxpayers' money in the form of social welfare payments, emerged at a hearing of Kenmare District Court last Friday week.
Mr Dooley was appearing before Judge James O'Connor on serious charges of deceiving an elderly man and his partner out of €78,800.
Mr Dooley, a 29-year-old father of one, had applied for free legal aid to pay for his court defence.

Scofflaw

Moved to Biz: State Benefits.

moderately,
Scofflaw

johnnyskeleton

wolfnight wrote: »

I am an Irish Citazin

I moved to England a few months after my 18th Birthday and because I managed to get such a cheap flight I did not get around to signing off the welfare before I left (I was on it for 3 weeks) however I did send a letter explaining the situation 3 days after I left Ireland and did not collect my last "payment".

After almost 4 years in London, a break up with my Ex and a false arrest in which I was put on remand in Prison for 44 days until my Solicitor could prove that I wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, I moved back to Dublin and moved in with a friend (Unable to stay with family) but I could mainly only use it as a postage address as I was due to sleep on a few friends sofa for a couple of weeks until I found a place however now I am staying with a friend on a perm basis but can not use the address due to issues with landlord.

That is my story, can anyone provide any information that may help?

Just because you are an Irish citizen does not automatically qualify you for social welfare. You have not been working here so are not entitled to jobseekers benefit, and you have not been habitually resident for 2 years so you are not entitled to jobseeker's allowance either.

See here for more details:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/jobseekers-allowance

If you were claiming social welfare in the UK, I think you can have that transferred to Ireland for up to 3 months (at the UK rate), but then it ceases. This might also apply if you were recently made redundant in the UK and came directly here but I'm not sure so maybe check in the State Benefits forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=861

While I have some sympathy for you in that there are a lot of Irish people who have never worked or tried to work and they are entitled to unlimited benefits and it must seem unfair to you that because you tried to make something of yourself in the UK that you are at a disadvantage, but thems the rules I'm afraid.

johnnyskeleton

beagle001 wrote: »

We should be giving preference to Irish citizens,I cannot imagine what it will be like here in 20 years with all this nonsense.

Do you want us to leave the eurozone? I'm just wondering is that part of your argument, because we can't give preference to Irish citizens here and then expect equal treatment for Irish citizens when they travel abroad to e.g. UK.

The OP exercised his rights to travel and work freely in another EU memberstate; as such he must accept that part of this system means that countries can impose habitual residence terms on social welfare.

beagle001

No I never hinted at leaving the Eurozone my point being that it is becoming ridiculous for Irish citizens to provide a mountain of evidence that they are Irish and resident in the country,not all of us have helpful landlords or bank statements giving proof of residence.
The system is flawed and we need to modernise it bigtime or else it will become even more absurd and difficult to get anything done,examples why can`t people be provided with a photo id on their social insurance card and made present it once a week at either a post office or a state agency.
Yes it would cost a bit to set it up but if the times you had to present it were within normal business hours it would eliminate a lot of the fraud and pay for itself.
I think that is probably not going to happen in Ireland for many years and yes in 20 years time we wil have less personal identity as Irish citizens in Ireland and this does bother me.

rusty999

liammur wrote: »

Here's another story about welfare from today's indo:

Just four months ago, unemployed settled Traveller Patrick Dooley bought a 2007 Renault Traffic van worth between €8,000 and €15,000.
The van is currently parked outside Mr Dooley's €300,000 home at Forest Close, a pretty enclave of houses at Ballyspillane, on the eastern edge of Killarney, Co Kerry.
Mr Dooley has not worked for 18 months and is currently in receipt of €2,280 a month in social-welfare payments, including €1,000 a month in state subvention to pay for his mortgage, taken out with sub-prime lender Start Mortgages, and €320 a week in unemployment benefit.
Details of Mr Dooley's purchase of a three-year-old commercial van, at a time he was receiving significant amounts of taxpayers' money in the form of social welfare payments, emerged at a hearing of Kenmare District Court last Friday week.
Mr Dooley was appearing before Judge James O'Connor on serious charges of deceiving an elderly man and his partner out of €78,800.
Mr Dooley, a 29-year-old father of one, had applied for free legal aid to pay for his court defence.

Well done on highlighting this farce in Killarney. I also tried to post the facts about this rip off here on this thread but the moderator in his/her wisdom, decided to remove my post for some reason. Anyway, it goes to show the inequality of the flawed system we have here in Ireland when the likes of the story above is happening every day of every week AND in every county in Ireland with no regulation or investigation of these criminals. Disgraceful Ireland!!!

snubbleste

rusty999 wrote: »

Well done on highlighting this farce in Killarney. I also tried to post the facts about this rip off here on this thread but the moderator in his/her wisdom, decided to remove my post for some reason. Anyway, it goes to show the inequality of the flawed system we have here in Ireland when the likes of the story above is happening every day of every week AND in every county in Ireland with no regulation or investigation of these criminals. Disgraceful Ireland!!!

You should post a link to the media article so the moderator can't fuss about it
Jobless Traveller buys van worth €15,000

cee_jay

rusty999 wrote: »

Well done on highlighting this farce in Killarney. I also tried to post the facts about this rip off here on this thread but the moderator in his/her wisdom, decided to remove my post for some reason. Anyway, it goes to show the inequality of the flawed system we have here in Ireland when the likes of the story above is happening every day of every week AND in every county in Ireland with no regulation or investigation of these criminals. Disgraceful Ireland!!!

This forum is not for criticising Government Departments or those in receipt in Social Welfare.
If you have an issue regarding the same please take it to Politics/Irish Economy (I don't frequent either of these forums so can't say which one it is for).
Before posting here again please read the charter.

Please no more off topic posting. The issue is at hand is the OP is subject to Habitual Residence.