The church and prejudice?

Freiheit

Just wondering whether lgbt people here feel that the church has had much of a role in propgagting societal prejudices against lgbt people?. There is inclusive clergy, who oppose discrimination, so I'm not seeking to damn all associated with religion. But I can't help but feel that traditional doctrine on morality in terms of sexual orientation, gender expression and sexual morality is partially responsible for some of the stigma's that leeched on the back of Irish society. How do others feel?.
F

L.Jenkins

If you look back through history, the Catholic Church like many other faiths, were the main driving force behind homophobic sentiments. Many would preach the same thing, "Go fourth and multiply". Such a group most of us never fit into, even though the majority of us would love to have and raise kids.

Only in recent years, the Government has been pushing the Church out of decision making and finally thinking for themselves. If the Irish Government had continued to listen to the Church, you can be sure homosexuality would not have been decriminalised in 93, never mind civil partnership.

Freiheit

In the Atheism and Agnosticism forum I outlined my troubled conscience at attending a University reunion mass....because I don't relate to Catholic values...however I generally found the individuals in question warm and inclusive in rhethoric.....In general though I feel that biblical texts reflect prejudices of their time.

Interesting how on the bbc today their was two gay Anglican clergy,one of whom is intending to marry and claims the bible does permit it.

Chuchoter

Not with the up and coming generation (ie teenagers, rap music and TV propagates prejudice) but for the people in control at the moment (my parents generation), born in the 50s-70s the church is definitely the driving force. I think we will continue to see prejudice from the current generation, but it will be less in a 'you're unnatural and evil' sort of way and more a hahaha look at that ****ing queer, stereotypes I think are worse now then they were (thank you very much Ugly Betty/Sex and the City/etc).

L.Jenkins

The joys of religion and mainstream media. Such prejudice hurts everyone and has been demonising the LGBT community for years. With respect to media, the LGBT community has the oppurtunity to change those prejudices, for example, Haley and Sean in Coronation and Aaron in Emmerdale. There's a few others I know, but atleast media is taking a crack at demolishing some prejudice even if the effort isn't entirely there.

As for the Church, it was the earliest writings that set fourth modern day prejudices right up until now. We weren't the only group safe from such foul treatment at the hands of the Church and wider community. Look at un married mothers and children of these mothers up until about 50 years ago here in Ireland, treated like second class citizens and all too often abused.

Granted, I have a little bit of faith about me, but given the actions of the Church in recent years, for me religion has lost all credibility and even seems hypocrythical at times. So I'm a borderline Atheist/Agnostic.

Annasopra

Freiheit wrote: »

Just wondering whether lgbt people here feel that the church has had much of a role in propgagting societal prejudices against lgbt people?. There is inclusive clergy, who oppose discrimination, so I'm not seeking to damn all associated with religion. But I can't help but feel that traditional doctrine on morality in terms of sexual orientation, gender expression and sexual morality is partially responsible for some of the stigma's that leeched on the back of Irish society. How do others feel?.
F

I think that it has to an extent - Church social teachings were that it was completely wrong - Also the more liberal priests who were supportive of divorced people and of shock horror altar girls mostly did not get promoted within the church - so the dominant conservatism was the ideology promoted through the hierarchy - see how Fr Brian Darcy has said he was attacked for having liberal views and speaking out on them

Annasopra

crayolastereo wrote: »

stereotypes I think are worse now then they were (thank you very much Ugly Betty/Sex and the City/etc).

are they? Or are you just too young to remember John Inman? Larry Grayson?

Chuchoter

Johnnymcg wrote: »

are they? Or are you just too young to remember John Inman? Larry Grayson?

Ok, maybe I'm too young to make a comparison (I don't know who either of those people are ) but maybe are there more of us on TV and I find most of them to be stereotypical, like that guy on corrie or Queer Eye.

Annasopra

crayolastereo wrote: »

Ok, maybe I'm too young to make a comparison (I don't know who either of those people are ) but maybe are there more of us on TV and I find most of them to be stereotypical, like that guy on corrie or Queer Eye.

well I don't find Sophie or Sian or Kens grandson or Gails
Father to be stereotypical

DS333

There are tons of great foreign gay films. You only have to look them up in Amazon. Romances. Thrillers. Comedies. You name it. With excellent acting, great stories, etc., etc., etc.:)

And they cost less to buy than to rent.;)

fjireland

yknow i have been torn about this for a long time too, i felt i always would like to remain a catholic and stuff because the ODD time someone progressive talks up that gay people arent to be excluded just because of how they choose to live their life i feel like i could stay in it... but of course MOST of the time, the same old fashioned clap trap is peddled how we're evil and stuff and it turns my stomach to say im a catholic in ways...

i really feel like i dont want to give up being spiritual or become a complete non- beleiever but the it is so hard to gloss over how they persecute and demean us gay people....

it was such a shame really that the catholic faith thrived alone here for so long, i think the anglicans have a much more palatable grasp on spirituality and including gay people and it would be nice to have them more vocal in this country than just the catholic view prevailing...

of course, what do ya know, couple of narrow minded anglican bishops have jumped ship over to catholicism because of the anglican views on gay people and women priests recently... :rolleyes:

DS333

I stayed in, but I ignore their comments. They know nothing about us. They've never cared to find out. So I don't believe them when they put words in God's mouth that he never said. When he describes Judgement Day in chapter 25 of Matthew's Gospel, he never once mentions sex or gays. It's all about loving your neighbour.

Just because they have created a God in their own image and likeness doesn't mean that I have to believe that that's what he's like. I worship the God I know he is and he often plants the most beautiful and kindest thoughts in my head about how he really feels about us.

Don't give up on God because of a few so-called Christian bigots. He'll look after you. Besides, if they really believed that we were all going to hell, and if they were called by Christ to look after the stray and lost sheep, wouldn't gay clubs and pubs be full of priests and bishops if they were doing their job? As Christ said himself, they're hired men, not good shepherds following in his footsteps.