should we lie to children

Ickle Magoo

It's not that I go about dispelling make believe, in terms of imaginative literature or play - I'm just not that fussed about actually creating people and making a concerted effort to make the kids believe they have an important role in their lives...

lynski

we engage in full imaginative play, with a full cast of characters including what he sees on tv in books etc, but he understands that it is make believe.
He watched coraline last week and asked me if what was in movies was real and i asked him what did he think and he said no and i told him he was exactly right.
We regularly go to the local bridge over the river to look for the troll that lives there, he fully enjoys it but knows there is no troll.
children are capable of a lot more then we give them credit for sometimes

Chuchoter

I disagree with instilling religion into children and I think children should be taught to be critical thinkers, but God childhood simply wouldn't have been the same without santa and the toothfairy, no other time in your life you can believe in that

metrovelvet

The things I used to believe... rainbows.. pots of gold... wishes on stars... you'd make it up and I'd believe it... Santa made me suspicious though. I think I saw too many of him all over NYC to not think something was amiss.

Deliverance

julies boy wrote: »

this is a topical subject
what should we do with santa/toothfary should we tell the truth or not and why do we lie to our kids , is it healthy,dose it help their imagations etc????

We lie to children all the time as much as we lie to ourselves to just get by in a society that is potentially built on stories. These stories are all based on an imagination that we all possess and use for our own benefit as a society that is fragile at best in my opinion.

The bible is the 'greatest story ever told', a 'fairytale' that is believed by adults as an extreme example of the power of the story.

every now and then an author comes along with a stronger more popular view that makes us think. 'Lord of the Flies' in this instance is poignant and worth a read as is 'Moby Dick'.

Stories are the standpoint of creativity and critical thinking for the general populace, children and adults alike. The more one reads and learns the more one has a better understanding of the placement that we have as contributors and thinkers in today's complex society.

Can you call a story a lie as much as you can call a lie a story?

It all depends on how you 'realise' the lie / story in the first place as a real person / thinker.

Look up nietzsche

metrovelvet

Deliverance wrote: »

We lie to children all the time as much as we lie to ourselves to just get by in a society that is potentially built on stories. These stories are all based on an imagination that we all possess and use for our own benefit as a society that is fragile at best in my opinion.

The bible is the 'greatest story ever told', a 'fairytale' that is believed by adults as an extreme example of the power of the story.

every now and then an author comes along with a stronger more popular view that makes us think. 'Lord of the Flies' in this instance is poignant and worth a read as is 'Moby Dick'.

Stories are the standpoint of creativity and critical thinking for the general populace, children and adults alike. The more one reads and learns the more one has a better understanding of the placement that we have as contributors and thinkers in today's complex society.

Can you call a story a lie as much as you can call a lie a story?

It all depends on how you 'realise' the lie / story in the first place as a real person / thinker.

Look up nietzsche

People lie all the time. That is if you believe in truth in the first place. Artists such as Picasso would talk about distortion to tell the truth, and Oscar Wilde has some interesting things to say about lying in order to tell the truth.

I lie every time I put mascara on.

Here is a very interesting article about deceit from the NY Science times. Sorry I don't know how to do that block highlighted text thing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/science/23angi.html

I found this sentence particularly interesting:

Our lie blindness suggests to some researchers a human desire to be deceived, a preference for the stylishly accoutred fable over the naked truth.

cbyrd

My dad putting the talc on the fireplace,... tying the string to the fire screen and then to the companion set to see if we could catch santy in the act.. 4 of us running down the stairs in the dark and WOW the screen is on the floor and there's a giant footprint on the fireplace :eek: HOLY MOLY SANTY'S FOOTPRINT :eek: running up the 2 flights of stairs to tell mammy and daddy that we have santy's footprint and he wrecked the room.. come down and look... not understanding why they were so tired.. i mean it was only about half 5.. the first roller skates i got, the doll house, they pure joy when i got a wendy house, an escape from my brothers... the disappointment i felt the christmas when i was 12 knowing but not wanting to believe that he wasn't real.. then understanding the magic my parents created and how much they thought of us to get what we wanted and not take the glory...

the time i thought the tooth fairy forgot.. but when i came home from school and was told to check under the pillow properly and found my 20p in the pillow case oh the relief...

Now i'm the parent and i love not getting the glory.. i love creating the magic, and i love the yelling and shouting at half 5 on christmas morning SANTY CAME AND WE CAUGHT HIS FOOTPRINT... there's no lie in it... just like trees don't grow in my sitting room but it's still there :rolleyes:

I dont' know how much longer i'll have my dad, he's sick, but i'll always have the magic he created for me and my brothers, and when we understood we we're drafted in to help create the magic for the younger ones.. and i do remember one year we left a turnip outside the door with one of my older brothers name on it for the laugh.. it still makes us laugh..
just my take on it...;)

Deliverance

cbyrd wrote: »

My dad putting the talc on the fireplace,... tying the string to the fire screen and then to the companion set to see if we could catch santy in the act.. 4 of us running down the stairs in the dark and WOW the screen is on the floor and there's a giant footprint on the fireplace :eek: HOLY MOLY SANTY'S FOOTPRINT :eek: running up the 2 flights of stairs to tell mammy and daddy that we have santy's footprint and he wrecked the room.. come down and look... not understanding why they were so tired.. i mean it was only about half 5.. the first roller skates i got, the doll house, they pure joy when i got a wendy house, an escape from my brothers... the disappointment i felt the christmas when i was 12 knowing but not wanting to believe that he wasn't real.. then understanding the magic my parents created and how much they thought of us to get what we wanted and not take the glory...

the time i thought the tooth fairy forgot.. but when i came home from school and was told to check under the pillow properly and found my 20p in the pillow case oh the relief...

Now i'm the parent and i love not getting the glory.. i love creating the magic, and i love the yelling and shouting at half 5 on christmas morning SANTY CAME AND WE CAUGHT HIS FOOTPRINT... there's no lie in it... just like trees don't grow in my sitting room but it's still there :rolleyes:

I dont' know how much longer i'll have my dad, he's sick, but i'll always have the magic he created for me and my brothers, and when we understood we we're drafted in to help create the magic for the younger ones.. and i do remember one year we left a turnip outside the door with one of my older brothers name on it for the laugh.. it still makes us laugh..
just my take on it...;)

That is what it is all about really. I figured out the Santa 'lie' v.early as a kid with one eye open all night (saw the parents doing the deed all excited and tripping over themselves planting the pressies trying not to wake us up) They looke so excited.

I kept up the pretence of belief for the parents sake. I didn't have the heart to spoil the magic for them;)

Deliverance

metrovelvet wrote: »

Our lie blindness suggests to some researchers a human desire to be deceived, a preference for the stylishly accoutred fable over the naked truth.

I like the sentence: 'Art is a lie that tells the truth'. I don't know who said that, but once I heard it, it stuck with me as something that describes the beauty that lies within a 'lie'.

metrovelvet

Deliverance wrote: »

I like the sentence: 'Art is a lie that tells the truth'. I don't know who said that, but once I heard it, it stuck with me as something that describes the beauty that lies within a 'lie'.

Not very fashionable anymore Im afraid. Truth is very modernist notion that is sort of frowned upon in more sophisticated circles, as it is now seen to be unstable and constructed itself and anything which is constructed is artificial.

BostonB

I guess it depends entirely on the situation. Somethings are fun and exciting. But sometimes lies can catch you out, and sometimes they are not helpful.

Deliverance

metrovelvet wrote: »

Not very fashionable anymore Im afraid. Truth is very modernist notion that is sort of frowned upon in more sophisticated circles, as it is now seen to be unstable and constructed itself and anything which is constructed is artificial.

That is true;)