Non Attendence of Mass today - did you skip it?

mike65

Today the women of Ireland have been asked to Boycott Sunday mass, if a mass goer were you aware of this call and did you take heed or plough on regardless?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0811/1224276549321.html?via=mr

AN 80-YEAR-OLD woman is organising a one-day boycott of Sunday Mass “by the faithful women of Ireland” next month.

Jennifer Sleeman from Clonakilty in Cork said she wants “to let the Vatican and the Irish church know that women are tired of being treated as second-class citizens”.

She has called on the Catholic women of Ireland to “join your sisters on Sunday, September 26th. On that one day boycott Mass. Stay at home and pray for change. We are the majority. We may have been protesting individually but unremarked on, but together we have strength and our absence, the empty pews, will be noticed”.

She said: “Whatever change you long for, recognition, ordination, the end of celibacy, which is another means of keeping women out, join with your sisters and let the hierarchy know by your absence that the days of an exclusively male-dominated church are over.”

Not a mass goer.
Think it's a bit silly she converted to catholicism and then started moaning about it tbh. It's their club and she knew what she was getting into, presumably. If she holds beliefs incompatible with them maybe she should find a church that's more suitable for her.

Joey the lips

Went to mass...Plenty of women there.....Although granted i understand the womens point. It is terriable. I also find it terriable that bishops can come out and be critical of it but cannot voice the same opionions to rome when they disagree with something..

or maybe they do

Catari Jaguar

I never go to Mass.

Faith

Haven't gone to mass in many many years now.

RhubarbCrumble

I don't go anyway.

Did you know that Mrs Sleeman's son is a priest in Glenstal Abbey.

Lia_lia

Never heard about this.

Don't go to mass anyway.

IrishEyes19

I think it's a bit silly to be honest. Now if she was protesting against the recent abuses, fair enough. The church has a hell of a lot to answer and pay for in that regard, but this argument of sexism in the church is boring at this stage. She probably wouldnt even become a "female priest" if the rule changed anyway and secondly, the division of Priests and nuns has always been the way it is in the church, years ago there was probably sexism going on. But really now, I think the treatment of women is the least problem we have with the church here at the moment in comparission to the scandals that have emerged of late.

Links234

nope I never go to mass, I hate the catholic church, the pope is a rotten bastard

Ickle Magoo

I'm not catholic, so no, don't go to mass.

I've never understood the point of declaring allegiance to one of hundreds of different religions and then declaring they should change their ancient traditions to suit you - why not just join one of the religions that already has the set up you want?

IrishEyes19

I haven't gone to mass for a while either, but I still consider myself Catholic if that still works , as in I believe in God and heaven, and so I don't even consider the inbetweens like the priests and pope who has looked over and ignored all the abuses. I believe in God and my own idea of what is right and wrong, as all men are human and therefore Priests are too.....I think that was a major problem before, they were made out to be above human and never wrong in the past, and therefore people feared them and they got away with too much. However there are also some very good ones who have been tarred with the same brush. Men corrupted religion, so I believe in my religion, just not some of the men who claim to teach and honour it, of that makes sense.

finipops

I never go to mass and i don't intend to go anytime soon.

IrishEyes19

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I haven't gone to mass for a while either, but I still consider myself Catholic if that still works , as in I believe in God and heaven, and so I don't even consider the inbetweens like the priests and pope who has looked over and ignored all the abuses. I believe in God and my own idea of what is right and wrong, as all men are human and therefore Priests are too.....I think that was a major problem before, they were made out to be above human and never wrong in the past, and therefore people feared them and they got away with too much. However there are also some very good ones who have been tarred with the same brush. Men corrupted religion, so I believe in my religion, just not some of the men who claim to teach and honour it, of that makes sense.

I have a feeling you need to attend the a la carte catholics thread in A&A :pac:
Priests being divinely able to interpret the bible is one of the things about catholicism.
Do we need to go down the transubstantiation route :pac:

metrovelvet

In my Jesuit alma mater she was referred to as 'the so called virgin' and the all boys Jesuit school across the street was referred to as 'the limp wrist academy'. This was by the faculty, not the students.

I understand why they did it, but I think if they wanted to send a louder message to the Church, they should have at least mentioned about the child abuse scandal as well. Guaranteed to have hundreds of Church pews across the country empty.

krudler

bluewolf wrote: »

I have a feeling you need to attend the a la carte catholics thread in A&A :pac:
Priests being divinely able to interpret the bible is one of the things about catholicism.
Do we need to go down the transubstantiation route :pac:

yup, dont believe in virgin birth, resurrection and transubstantiation? not a catholic then.

mike65

krudler wrote: »

yup, dont believe in virgin birth, resurrection and transubstantiation? not a catholic then.

Someone was talking about the modern beliefs and noted the above, saying basicly 21st Century Catholism is a variant of Protestantism

krudler

mike65 wrote: »

Someone was talking about the modern beliefs and noted the above, saying basicly 21st Century Catholism is a variant of Protestantism

It baffles me how many catholics have closer to protestant beliefs when it comes to this stuff yet wont deviate from calling themselves catholics, as if protestant is a dirty word in this country.

rainbow kirby

krudler wrote: »

It baffles me how many catholics have closer to protestant beliefs when it comes to this stuff yet wont deviate from calling themselves catholics, as if protestant is a dirty word in this country.

My mum's very much like this, her beliefs probably fit better with the Quakers or UUs than anything else, but she goes to a Catholic church because it's about 3-5 minutes walk from the house. She's the only one of us at home though that's even vaguely religious.

rannerap

Havent been to mass in years at this stage

goose2005

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm not catholic, so no, don't go to mass.

I've never understood the point of declaring allegiance to one of hundreds of different religions and then declaring they should change their ancient traditions to suit you - why not just join one of the religions that already has the set up you want?

Most people's allegiance to Catholicism is cultural rather than doctrinal.

funnights74

Go to mass, my memory doesn't go back that far, i'ld have to believe in god first i suppoose. :rolleyes:

LegacyUser

I've been an atheist since I was 11 years old and we didn't really go to mass growing up, not even at Christmas. So it's no real surprise that I don't go now.


But when I got married, I started going when we visited my in-laws, because I didn't want to piss them off. Then when the abuse scandal hit, I just couldn't do it anymore. The things the church was saying about these people... it wasn't just the fact that they were abused. It was how the church treated them since - you couldn't even argue that the abuse happened a generation ago and that it had stopped and the church was civilized now. It wasn't, they had been trying to snuff the voices of the victims until very recently, and they are still not doing enough to repay the damage they have done. So what am I going to do, go to church and give tithes so they can use them to pay their lawyers who are fighting so they don't have to pay any victims? What the hell?


So anyway, my in-laws seem to have just sort of ignored the fact that I'm not going to mass when I visit. We haven't had an all out discussion, I'm not sure if they even know I'm an atheist but I'm sure they suspect. We get along well though.

I wonder what they're going to do when I refuse to christen any of my children. That's going to be FUN...

xzanti

Weddings, funerals, christenings, the odd Xmas morning under duress.. That's about the height of my mass going..

I'm with the 'split a rock' theory..

r3nu4l

krudler wrote: »

yup, dont believe in virgin birth, resurrection and transubstantiation? not a catholic then.

Many protestants believe in the Virgin birth, just that Mary wasn't a virgin all her life.

krudler wrote: »

It baffles me how many catholics have closer to protestant beliefs when it comes to this stuff yet wont deviate from calling themselves catholics, as if protestant is a dirty word in this country.

A boycott of Protestant services wouldn't go amiss either though as the Anglican church opposes the ordination of women bishops...that's just as hypocritical if not moreso than the Catholic church imo.

LittleBook

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055996315

I started a thread on this when the article originally appeared. I don't go to mass myself but (at first) I thought the protest was thought-provoking.

Coincidentally, I watched Richard Dawkins' documentary "The God Delusion" (aka "The Root of All Evil") last week and, in response to some queries as to why people are trying to change the traditions of their religions, there was an interesting contribution from (retired) Anglican Bishop Richard Harries who "sees the scriptures as texts which should be read in the context of the time they were written, and interpreted in the light of modern insights."

r3nu4l wrote: »

A boycott of Protestant services wouldn't go amiss either though as the Anglican church opposes the ordination of women bishops...that's just as hypocritical if not moreso than the Catholic church imo.

I think the Anglican church has already ordained women bishops.

For info, here is the text upon which the ordination of women is opposed:

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

starlit

I skipped it on Sunday but went on Saturday. Wish I didn't have to go to Mass, have tried to boycott it for years but can't cause of mammys influence.

starlit

mike65 wrote: »

Someone was talking about the modern beliefs and noted the above, saying basicly 21st Century Catholism is a variant of Protestantism

yep, very true!

WindSock

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0928/1224279828137.html

Priests Group Says Boycott Well Supported

THE ASSOCIATION of Catholic Priests has insisted that a campaign to boycott weekend Masses received substantial support.
The newly formed group also criticised statements by the Catholic hierarchy – which claimed Mass numbers had not been affected – as unhelpful and “bordering on triumphalism”.
Jennifer Sleeman (81), from Clonakilty, Co Cork, had called on women to stay away from Mass in protest at their treatment as “second-class citizens” by the church.
In a statement on Saturday the Catholic Communications Office urged people to attend Mass as normal and pointed out that lay women contributed to all aspects of church life.
In a follow-up statement on Sunday, a spokesman said numbers attending Mass had held steady and, in some places, were up on recent weeks.
Yesterday, the Association of Catholic Priests said it acknowledged that the position of women in the Catholic Church was a difficult and often divisive issue.
But it said the issue needed to be faced and discussed as openly and calmly as possible.
“Jennifer Sleeman’s initiative this past weekend did not meet with universal approval, even among women. But it did receive substantial support,” the association said.
“We believe that neither of the hierarchy’s statements over the weekend was helpful.”
It said Saturday’s statement regarding women’s involvement in the church missed the point that women are at present excluded from many ministries and from all forms of decision-making.
“Unless we acknowledge the reality progress will not be made. Yesterday’s statement, saying that Mass attendance had not been affected, bordered on triumphalism,” the association said.
The group, which held its inaugural meeting earlier this month, said it knew of a “certain number of committed Catholic women who did not attend Mass this past weekend. It is crucial that we remain in respectful dialogue with such women”.
Ms Sleeman said yesterday that she was pleased with the feedback she had been getting from neighbours in Clonakilty, Co Cork, regarding the numbers participating in the boycott.
She said her boycott campaign was prompted by an upsurge in the number of women who wanted to be equal in the church.
Ms Sleeman added she was planning to return to Mass as normal today and would be reading at her local church.
The Catholic Communications Office’s statement on Saturday had encouraged people not to absent themselves from Mass.
“The celebration of the Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation is essential to the practice of the Catholic faith as the Sunday Eucharist is a pivotal aspect of the spiritual lives of Catholics,” the statement said.

Looks like this group was newly formed to claw back some reputation. I am glad they highlighted the recent comments from the heirarchy reeked of triumphalism though. I thought exactly that when I read yesterday when they said numbers weren't affected.

Panthro

I used to only go to mass is if there was an anniversary mass on for someone close to me. Those anniversary masses have stopped cropping up so I don't go anymore.
Even when I did go, I didn't really listen to what was being said, just stood there and reflected about the person that the mass was being said for.
If times get tough as they do sometimes, I don't call out to God to give me a hand, I call out to those who were close to me.

Audie

krudler wrote: »

It baffles me how many catholics have closer to protestant beliefs when it comes to this stuff yet wont deviate from calling themselves catholics, as if protestant is a dirty word in this country.

I agree, I was a catholic and converted to protestantism, much to the horror of family and friends. I don't really practise either anymore, but I was fed up of all the bull**** of the catholic church. I try to boycott it now because of the abuses, but I end up showing up to dedicated masses etc. out of respect.

There is never going to be a perfect religion or perfect form of christianity, but the protestants are definitely closer to the bible, which it's all supposed to be about. However, there is definitely a whole catholic irish mindset, which may or may not have anything to do with religion.

IrishEyes19

Leaving the abuses in the Catholic Church for a moment, I'm off the opinion that whats being going on here isn't just subject to the Catholic faith either. I don't believe also that there is anything wrong with being Catholic or believing in it, its simply been corrupted by certain powerful people who claim to live by those beliefs. Its a little annoying as well, that to still be catholic and believe in it, issues a heated debate about how could you still follow a church that has been involved in such scandal. Many people, myself included would argue their belief in the teachings, god has not changed, just their belief in some priests and so on who teach it. You can't tar everyone with the the same brush.

panda100

Audie wrote: »

However, there is definitely a whole catholic irish mindset, which may or may not have anything to do with religion.

I think the mindest is closer to Capitalism than it is Christianity. Bertie Ahern for me exemplifies the shoddy Catholicism we have in this country. My family are of the same ilk and are just a bundle of hypocrisies when it comes to their faith and how they live their life.
I have endless fun asking them questions about their religion that they have no clue about. Ask any Catholic in this country what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are and how many gifts there are and they'd be hard pressed to answer it. I used to be a religious apologist but Im not anymore as I've had Catholicism rammed down my throat all my life. Im sick of Catholic nonsense that no one has a clue about, shaping how I live my life in this country.

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Its a little annoying as well, that to still be catholic and believe in it, issues a heated debate about how could you still follow a church that has been involved in such scandal. Many people, myself included would argue their belief in the teachings, god has not changed, just their belief in some priests and so on who teach it. You can't tar everyone with the the same brush.

But to believe in the roman Catholic faith you must believe in the Catholic hierarchy and that the Pope is God's representative on earth. We know as fact that the Vatican and God's representative on Earth tried to cover up the child rape scandal. This isn't isolated to a few priests, the whole organisation tried to cover it up.

The popes for centuries has formulated RC teachings and beliefs. Its popes that decide that Limbo doesnt exist or that Mary was a virgin or hovered into Heaven or that condoms are evil. None of these teachings came from Jesus so the Vatican is entwined with Roman Catholics beliefs. To be a Catholic you must take the Vaticans word as God's word. Therefore it was God's word to cover up the mass rape of children, which I think makes the RC God a pretty sick individual.

IrishEyes19

panda100 wrote: »

I think the mindest is closer to Capitalism than it is Christianity. Bertie Ahern for me exemplifies the shoddy Catholicism we have in this country. My family are of the same ilk and are just a bundle of hypocrisies when it comes to their faith and how they live their life.
I have endless fun asking them questions about their religion that they have no clue about. Ask any Catholic in this country what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are and how many gifts there are and they'd be hard pressed to answer it. I used to be a religious apologist but Im not anymore as I've had Catholicism rammed down my throat all my life. Im sick of Catholic nonsense that no one has a clue about, shaping how I live my life in this country.



But to believe in the roman Catholic faith you must believe in the Catholic hierarchy and that the Pope is God's representative on earth. We know as fact that the Vatican and God's representative on Earth tried to cover up the child rape scandal. This isn't isolated to a few priests, the whole organisation tried to cover it up.

The popes for centuries has formulated RC teachings and beliefs. Its popes that decide that Limbo doesnt exist or that Mary was a virgin or hovered into Heaven or that condoms are evil. None of these teachings came from Jesus so the Vatican is entwined with Roman Catholics beliefs. To be a Catholic you must take the Vaticans word as God's word. Therefore it was God's word to cover up the mass rape of children, which I think makes the RC God a pretty sick individual.[/QUOTE

There have been many popes before this pope, "Panda," Popes who covered up and then popes who did good. I'm not saying Im sticking by what the current pope has covered up. In fact Im not. But I am Catholic and to be honest, I dont have to take the vaticans word as God's word. Catholicism has changed over the years as well. If you go back 50 years ago, the fear of hell was burned into people's minds and then when I started national school, this new concept of "love others as you would like to be loved," was brought in and charity and kindness became the new focus rather than this fear of hell stuff. So things have changed in the church, and therefore I dont think Im any less of a catholic for not agreeing with everything the vatican says or does. Ie, on a humerous note, the vatican has banned Harry Potter books as a sinfull read. I quite enjoy them to be honest, doesnt mean of course, Im convinced that theres people flying around on broomsticks somewhere.

Secondly, the pope didnt decide Mary was a virgin, it was the actual belief of the time, because they couldnt figure out how she got pregnant, she was considered a virgin at the time. Limbo, and all these other places are unanswered questions that we will never know the answer to, until we are dead and the church felt compelled to provide answers because people were losing faith when there were none. The issue of condoms is a personal choice, yes the church condemns them, but they arent raiding catholic houses everyday arresting those who use them. I dont think disagreeing with these things makes you any less a catholic or agreeing with them makes you anymore a catholic. And yes man did create those rules, it was never stated once that god condemned a condom, but do correct me if Im wrong. So since I actually do follow the word of god, and go to mass....I may not agree with everything they say. Im pretty sure that still makes me a catholic and Id be the first to say Im not ashamed to be one either. Im horrified that such abuses happened and I hope those who did it are punished. But its annoying at this stage to be looked down upon for still following your faith. Blame man, not the religion. Many people still follow it for whatever their reasons and Im pretty sure they havent murdered, raped or abused anyone. Tar the guilty with that condeming brush, not the innocent believers.