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The Music Forum Paired Artist- Battle Dome-Please read 1st Post for Rules

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  • 26-09-2010 9:54pm
    #1
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭


    Welcome to the Music Forum "Paired Artist -Battle Dome Thread":)

    Rules:

    1. Every Two days- After 7pm - a new pairing of artists can be proposed. Just post NEW PAIRING...and the two artists/bands you want to battle it out.

    2. There's no poll- it's strongest argument wins and you can make your own mind up who wins the argument- but the thread is more about learning facts/new things about bands/artists that you might not have known before, rather than just about "winning".

    First Battle lasts till 7pm Wednesday:

    Bob Dylan Vs John Lennon- Let the Battle Begin:D


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    #2
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users Posts: 31,942 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    Should there not be a poll with it or are you just gonna take the vote from each post?


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    #3
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    For me, it has to be Dylan for the following reasons:

    Prolific output of (many quality albums from early 60s onwards
    Massive critic of social issues of the time, but let his music & lyrics speak on his behalf
    Bucked the trend of the day- when people thought they knew him, he just went off in a totally different direction- i.e. acoustic folk/ to electric blues
    Wasn't afraid of what people though of him and would never be "boxed in" to any genre- a self confessed song and dance man


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    #4
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Dylan is so many divisions above Lennon it's not fair to put them in the ring together. It's like taking Katie Taylor and putting her in a ring with Joe Frasier (in his prime). She's great in her division but Frasier would kill her.


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    #5
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    mars bar wrote: »
    Should there not be a poll with it or are you just gonna take the vote from each post?

    would see this thread as an ongoing thread- not a once-off-otherwise, we'll have tons of pairings on the music forum- a poll would be difficult to maintain every 3 days and would have to change and a new one set up- to keep the thread fresh, the battles only last a few days- it's "quick and dirty" then move on to the next pairing- I think people can read back over any particular battle and make their own mind up who wins as the battle is over at the times listed above, so you only have a couple of days to get your spake in..:)


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    #6
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Dylan is so many divisions above Lennon it's not fair to put them in the ring together. It's like taking Katie Taylor and putting her in a ring with Joe Frasier (in his prime). She's great in her division but Frasier would kill her.

    never said it was fair...;)...but I think it just might be interesting nevertheless - since theres no poll, people will have to fight their way to the top..


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    #7
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Lennon had the edge on melody.

    Dylan is certainly more literate and philosophical. Dylan cut his teeth in Greenwich Village whereas a young Lennon did so in Hamburg and never lost his interest in rock n'roll.Dylan was a protege of Woodie Guthrie whereas Lennon was more of a Chuck Berry fan. Dylan merged pop and protest music and his early stuff really stands up.

    What I like about Lennon is his shallowness and honesty. " Jealous Guy" is a magic song but "Imagine" gets the airplay -which is a pity. "I am the Walrus" has lyrical playfulness that you wouldnt see in Dylan. For me Lennons magic moment has to be his Beatles song "Julia". Simple and direct and personal. Dylan could never be that simple.

    Funnily enough though I love electric guitar - I prefered Dylan before he went electric :pac:


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    #8
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    I kind of get the feeling even Lennon would have opted for Dylan in this pairing.


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    #9
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CDfm wrote: »
    Lennon had the edge on melody.

    What I like about Lennon is his shallowness and honesty. " Jealous Guy" is a magic song but "Imagine" gets the airplay -which is a pity. "I am the Walrus" has lyrical playfulness that you wouldnt see in Dylan. For me Lennons magic moment has to be his Beatles song "Julia". Simple and direct and personal. Dylan could never be that simple.

    Hmm, Paul was the melodic one in the Beatles, a lot of Lennon's solo stuff is fairly bland musically.

    Dylan can be simple, a song like "I'll be your baby tonight" or "Man in Me" shows how well he understands simplicity.

    On the second half of the Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, or on Bringing It All Back Home Dylan's 115 Dream (iirc) shows a lyrically playfulness equal to anything Lennon could do, as does a fair bit of Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde. A problem with Dylan is people assume he's hiding some deep meaning when in reality he's just being playful. Even on Love and Theft he's throwing awful jokes into songs (I rang room service, said send up a room).

    I suspect Rubik is right, even Lennon would be going for Dylan in this one.


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    #10
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Rubik. wrote: »
    I kind of get the feeling even Lennon would have opted for Dylan in this pairing.

    No chance, Lennon would have called him,Dylan, a country crossover artist :pac:


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    #11
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CDfm wrote: »
    No chance, Lennon would have called him,Dylan, a country crossover artist :pac:

    I don't know, Lennon was obsessed with Dylan, he thought Fourth Time Round was written about him (to the tune of Norwegian Wood).


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    #12
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    CDfm wrote: »
    No chance, Lennon would have called him,Dylan, a country crossover artist :pac:

    Its funny you should say that because apparently this was written....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucSvl7VXVM


    in response to this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs7p1IGqsgk


    which was thought to be a piss take of this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3cUejOltsA


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    #13
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Hmm, Paul was the melodic one in the Beatles, a lot of Lennon's solo stuff is fairly bland musically.

    lennon was off on a bender for most of the early 70's

    i would not say bland but rather not sophisticated and Zimmerman never writes about his Mum or his muse with so much candour.

    dear prudence is a fairly epic sing
    Dylan can be simple, a song like "I'll be your baby tonight"

    good choice -about minding a baby -bring that bottle over here


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    #14
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I don't know, Lennon was obsessed with Dylan, he thought Fourth Time Round was written about him (to the tune of Norwegian Wood).

    but Dylan considers Liam Clancy to have been one of the best ballad singers ever and whereas I can appreciate his work I aint going to go out and buy him. So too even if Dylan influenced Lennions thinking and he was a fan there is no reason I should agree with him about who I prefer.


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    #15
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    This is a tough one. On one hand you got someone who is probably the second greatest living song writer (Browne is first, even though his later output makes that questionable) and the other hand you've got a great musician and great character.

    In the way that Dylan is unquestionably the better songwriter than Lennon, Lennon avoided some of the Banality manifested in Dylan's character. Though, I suspect that's neither here nor there as we are judging this purely on musical terms.

    Lennon songs had a creative streak whereas Dylan didn't, whereas Dylan carried his songs with weight, creating something much more than songs. In lieu, of this, Lennon's compositions seem to be something of the moment.

    I'm withdrawing any vote for the time being as i feel that this one requires thought.

    Dylan. Lennon. Dylan. Lennon. This one is truly impossible.


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    #16
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    thenakedanddead wrote: »
    (Browne is first,

    Jackson Browne ????


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    #17
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    CDfm wrote: »
    Jackson Browne ????

    Yeah. Slaughter me if you wish


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    #18
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    thenakedanddead wrote: »
    Yeah. Slaughter me if you wish

    Not at all. Someone who thinks the Alice Cooper song "Dead Babies" is pure class has no right to criticize anyones taste but it is a bit country :).


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    #19
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users Posts: 31,942 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    thenakedanddead wrote: »
    Browne is first,

    Wanna be friends?! :D


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    #20
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    mars bar wrote: »
    Wanna be friends?! :D


    What's your favourite song?


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    #21
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users Posts: 31,942 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    thenakedanddead wrote: »
    What's your favourite song?

    Late For The Sky. It's beautiful.

    Anyway, don't wanna take this off topic so...


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    #22
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    mars bar wrote: »
    Late For The Sky. It's beautiful.

    Anyway, don't wanna take this off topic so...


    Well let me just end this digression by saying I concur.


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    #23
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    Cicero wrote: »
    would see this thread as an ongoing thread- not a once-off-otherwise, we'll have tons of pairings on the music forum- a poll would be difficult to maintain every 3 days and would have to change and a new one set up- to keep the thread fresh, the battles only last a few days- it's "quick and dirty" then move on to the next pairing- I think people can read back over any particular battle and make their own mind up who wins as the battle is over at the times listed above, so you only have a couple of days to get your spake in..:)

    Wouldn't it be more tense and fun if an official winner is declared?


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    #24
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    thenakedanddead wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be more tense and fun if an official winner is declared?

    ..if you can think of a way that will please all...please, go for it..:)

    Heres a number of short 1 minute clips of an interview with bob on youtube-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZlsP8LHHAs&NR=1

    his total rejection & dismissal of the media is legendary- he admits here that he constantly lied to the media when asked questions which is no surprise to anyone....while Dylan totally rejected the media, Lennon courted it and used it to his advantage and personal escapades (bed-in for peace with yoko)- probably one of the first pop/rock stars to do this- years before Bono et al went down that road..

    ..in other interview clips also at the same link, Dylan (as usual) either can't or won't talk about the motivation or source of his creativity that produced his fine back catalog of the 1960s-again, not allowing the world to gain any insight as to how the songs were formed or what they were based on- Dylan still appears today, as a reluctant hero/voice of the people- Lennon, and the Beatles as a whole, on the other hand- were the original media friendly band- both Lennon and Dylan have used the media in their own way to help create their public persona - one by rejecting it, and one by embracing it-
    ..wonder if Dylan had treated the media differently and opened up a little more, would that have taken away too much of the mystic ?


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    #25
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    I think Dylan won that. I'm going on.

    Competition 2:

    Leonard Cohen Vs Randy Newman


    I love Leonard, but, despite a few ear-hurters, the accolade has to go to Randy Newman for the following reasons:

    He did something very uncommon in music, which is to present with a very simple style, say alot yet keep it simple. Create a story which could be appreciated both from a passive perspective and be analysed in a political regard. He could diverse his styles, hitting one minute a social problem of sorts and then, with similar authenticity shift to a love song like Marie.


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    #26
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    Ok....maybe this battle will get people going- take your sides now-

    Jimmy Page Vs Jimi Hendrix - who wins?...you decide..


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    #27
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    GLX8D00Z.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJGK_qU0xHI


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    #28
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    I'm taking Page's side in this battle: I'll post some words later this weekend...in the meantime.....here's Page...jump to 30sec's into the tape and just sit back and watch a genius at play:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bc9m7nbMC4


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    #29
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    & I don't care what anyone says.....you know you love it....go on.....click it..play it.....live it:



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    #30
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I hate to say it but Cicero is bang on the money here Page has the edge over " excuse me while I kiss this guy".

    Hendrix had amazing stagecraft and was good. In 60's London he was doing what a lot of guitarists did. Jeff Beck, Pete Townsend, Eric Clapton were all his contemporaries, Mick Taylor gave the Rolling Stones a new edge -Angie is his.

    I will have to go with Jimmy Page on this.


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    #31
    thenakedanddead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭thenakedanddead


    I'll stop contaminating this thread in a moment, but instant gratification is a must so do forgive

    Battle 4:

    Zappa vs The Beatles.

    Zappa - More fun, more creative, better songs.


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