Waterford Election 2011

decies

Well I think mr Kenneally is a complete waste of a vote and voting crusty the clown in would probably be a wiser choice,I don't think ind will be as effective in next dail with increase in labour vote. Regarding deasey who at one stage was the darling of the media ,a lot will depend when election is called , if no election by spring time and fine Gael don't approve , kenny dead man walking, deasey might do a Lazarus , if not complete waste of a promising career . FG 2 FF1 labour 1

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

The first to have their pay slips looked at are the TD's but that is not going to happen. Richard Bruton tried to dodge the question this week when he was on Deise Am. Would not expect him to talk for all the TD's but it would be if he or some other td would come out and say that 'yes td's wages should be cut, and not just by a small percentage'.

Tds and senators have had their wages cut. (in fact some of them took a bigger pay-cut than they had to). They are also subject to all levies and tax increases.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Tds and senators have had their wages cut. (in fact some of them took a bigger pay-cut than they had to). They are also subject to all levies and tax increases.

We all know that they have their wages cut, but they could well do with taking further cuts. Some of them are very well off. With a while we are hearing a lot about the fiddleing some of the FF ones are at but i am sure after an election we will be hearing about what some of the FG and Lab ones are up to over the years.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

We all know that they have their wages cut, but they could well do with taking further cuts. Some of them are very well off. With a while we are hearing a lot about the fiddleing some of the FF ones are at but i am sure after an election we will be hearing about what some of the FG and Lab ones are up to over the years.

How much do you think a TDs salary should be??

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

How much do you think a TDs salary should be??

How much do they get and i will tell you.

It was reported that the Taoiseach gets over 300,000, thats way too much. A third of it would be more than enough. I saw that if David Norris was to become president he would look for 70,000 less than what Mary McAleese is getting, plus expenses. I would love to see him or who ever gets the job do it for 70,000. There is a hell of a lot of people that would work for a lot less than 70,000.

Predictor

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

How much do you think a TDs salary should be??

TD's have as was said taken huge pay cuts of 30% in direct and indirect cuts and are now subject to levies etc as everyone else is. However nobody wants to hear these facts because everyone nowadays seems to feel politicans should get paid the 'average industrial wage' to 'see how they like it'!.

This is the wrong attitude, I have seen the work TD's put in (granted former one's not the current bunch in Waterford) and it is really a vocation, they dont have a second to themselves despite the media spin (on call 24/7 365 days a year, constant scruitiny, constant pressure from constituents and the work load associated with that and thats before a speech is even written. My opinion is you get what you pay for... If you pay small you don't attract the very people we need to get us out of this mess!

Anyway back to the upcoming election I believe the result will go as follows.

1. O'shea
2. Deasy
3. Kenneally
4. Coffey

with one of the following left wing candidates pushing Coffey close (Ryan/Halligan/Cullinane). These could well transfer in heavy numbers to eachother and push coffey close.

However if there is a bye-election before General I would put Coffey ahead of Deasy for FG but the other 3 to be retained. If Labour polled very well and went over quota (which I dont think they will) they could well have a shot with 2nd candidate provided Halligan and Cullinane are behind him and transfer, however this is a long Shot!

Gardner

Have to say I was in Waterford city during the week and meet Mr. Halligan out doing a bit of shopping. well i wouldn’t call it shopping because every 2 minutes there was somebody coming up to him. He stopped, listened and took down details of every person that had a bit of an issue.
A bit of humour was had when every biddy was passing by, you would hear the strong city accent, "well john boy, ur going a great job!" John would turn around and shout back "well girl, how’s things, ya keeping well" with the return " ah sure I’m grand john, I will give ya a shout during the week" or " ah john boy no complaints, the country is f**ked"

I stopped to have a quick chat and found him rather accommodating with anything i asked him. Firstly I asked him would he be running as an independent in the next by election or general election because of the speculation around him joining labour. He said he will be most definitely be running as a independent and certainly will not be joining Labour. For years he said he spoke out against them on several issues and it would be hypercritical of him to join them. He said Eamonn Gilmore approached him at a meeting in Faithlegg when he was mayor, he told him there and then on the spot that he had no intention of joining Labour. John went on to say that he thinks Waterford would be best represented by an independent and not been represented by stagnant back benchers and singing to the party hymn sheet in parliament votes.
I also pressed him on service charges. He said he is totally opposed to the privatisation of the refuge collection because of job loss of council workers, exploitation of workers in Mr.Binman and more importantly the exclusion of the waver for the less well off with a private company. He said he will also opposed to water taxes and told me the story of how Waterford City Council where going to introduce water tax in June 2009 and he told them that he would refuse to represent the people of Waterford City as Mayor if they tried to introduce water charges. I asked him how he could take this stance when voting for the book of estimates. He said people opposed to the book of estimates don’t understand it fully. If I was to oppose this I would be voting against the anti social offer he put in place in the council, neighbourhood watch schemes etc. He said you can still fight this issue but more importantly you need the other services that are essential that he would have put in place in Ballybeg, Larchville and other working class areas of the city.

All in all I found it an interesting discussion and we discussed a lot more and I said to him that he should have some open forums in Waterford City and County and John said it was a good idea and we swapped number as I told him id be very interested in helping him in the next election. I think it really hit home after our discussion that this election is not about party politics anymore it’s about what’s best for Waterford.

Deise Tom

Gardner wrote: »

Have to say I was in Waterford city during the week and meet Mr. Halligan out doing a bit of shopping. well i wouldn’t call it shopping because every 2 minutes there was somebody coming up to him. He stopped, listened and took down details of every person that had a bit of an issue.
A bit of humour was had when every biddy was passing by, you would hear the strong city accent, "well john boy, ur going a great job!" John would turn around and shout back "well girl, how’s things, ya keeping well" with the return " ah sure I’m grand john, I will give ya a shout during the week" or " ah john boy no complaints, the country is f**ked"

I stopped to have a quick chat and found him rather accommodating with anything i asked him. Firstly I asked him would he be running as an independent in the next by election or general election because of the speculation around him joining labour. He said he will be most definitely be running as a independent and certainly will not be joining Labour. For years he said he spoke out against them on several issues and it would be hypercritical of him to join them. He said Eamonn Gilmore approached him at a meeting in Faithlegg when he was mayor, he told him there and then on the spot that he had no intention of joining Labour. John went on to say that he thinks Waterford would be best represented by an independent and not been represented by stagnant back benchers and singing to the party hymn sheet in parliament votes.
I also pressed him on service charges. He said he is totally opposed to the privatisation of the refuge collection because of job loss of council workers, exploitation of workers in Mr.Binman and more importantly the exclusion of the waver for the less well off with a private company. He said he will also opposed to water taxes and told me the story of how Waterford City Council where going to introduce water tax in June 2009 and he told them that he would refuse to represent the people of Waterford City as Mayor if they tried to introduce water charges. I asked him how he could take this stance when voting for the book of estimates. He said people opposed to the book of estimates don’t understand it fully. If I was to oppose this I would be voting against the anti social offer he put in place in the council, neighbourhood watch schemes etc. He said you can still fight this issue but more importantly you need the other services that are essential that he would have put in place in Ballybeg, Larchville and other working class areas of the city.

All in all I found it an interesting discussion and we discussed a lot more and I said to him that he should have some open forums in Waterford City and County and John said it was a good idea and we swapped number as I told him id be very interested in helping him in the next election. I think it really hit home after our discussion that this election is not about party politics anymore it’s about what’s best for Waterford.

That from a man that for many years was against packs when he was in the Workers Party and when he left them and there was a chance of him becoming Waterford City Mayor, joined one. What would you call that.

Its all well him been popular in the city and from what i have heard about him he is not as popular even there as he thinks, (Maybe he is in his own area, where people generally vote for their own anyway - in most areas), but outside his own envoirnment how would he do. What vote would he get outside the county. What do people in Clashmore, Kilmacthomas, Bunmahon, Tallow, Ballyduff Upper, Kilrossanty etc know about him and what does he know about the people in these areas and their issues. Life is not always about standing on picket lines with workers and volunteers etc.

jmcc

Predictor wrote: »

My opinion is you get what you pay for...

Right. I want my money back! And I want these scumbags to pay back every cent that they've cost my country.

If you pay small you don't attract the very people we need to get us out of this mess!

As opposed to paying the bunch of morons that made a mess of the Irish economy? That moron Cowen is still one of the best paid prime ministers in the world - why?

Anyway back to the upcoming election I believe the result will go as follows.

1. O'shea
2. Deasy
3. Kenneally
4. Coffey

I think that Kenneally could be in very big trouble as there is a palpable anti-FF sentiment that Labour and FG can tap into. He has always been the tweedledum FF candidate whereas Cullen's has been the more high profile tweedledee candidature. Cullen took most of the limelight and the cabinet seats. Now with Cullen out of the way, a lot of Cullen's personal vote won't happen this time around. This could mean that those transfers will not happen either. If Labour doesn't get its act together quickly, FG could even have a chance at a third seat or it may go to SF.

Regards...jmcc

Trotter

I wouldnt be surprised to see a labour parachute candidate. Im not sure who.
There are plenty of high profile people in Waterford who've shown they've got drive and determination and can hold their own with the national media etc. I'd love to see someone local taking the election by the scruff.

Predictor

jmcc wrote: »

As opposed to paying the bunch of morons that made a mess of the Irish economy? That moron Cowen is still one of the best paid prime ministers in the world - why?

Yes you are right in relation to Cowen and Co. but the general point is that you dont attract highly qualified and hard working people to a job like politics without paying good wages.

jmcc wrote: »

I think that Kenneally could be in very big trouble as there is a palpable anti-FF sentiment that Labour and FG can tap into. He has always been the tweedledum FF candidate whereas Cullen's has been the more high profile tweedledee candidature. Cullen took most of the limelight and the cabinet seats. Now with Cullen out of the way, a lot of Cullen's personal vote won't happen this time around. This could mean that those transfers will not happen either. If Labour doesn't get its act together quickly, FG could even have a chance at a third seat or it may go to SF.

Keneally or a FF dog, elephant, cat or whatever they put up will always get elected in Waterford. They got 50% of the first preference share in 2007 (thats 1 in every 2 - amazing). Even giving that a large percentage of this was a Cullen ministerial vote, FF will always get 25% plus which is enough to elect Keneally without a doubt.

FG will never win 3 seats in Waterford, they will do well to elect 2, besides they only selected 2 candidates Coffey and Deasy. Who would they run as a third??

jmcc

Predictor wrote: »

Yes you are right in relation to Cowen and Co. but the general point is that you dont attract highly qualified and hard working people to a job like politics without paying good wages.

The only thing it seems to have attracted has been low brow school teachers, hick solicitors, coffin surfers, auctioneers. Few of these have shown signs of having any great intellect. Many of them, such as Cowen and Coughlan, just coffin surf their way into a Dail seat.

Keneally or a FF dog, elephant, cat or whatever they put up will always get elected in Waterford.

Perhaps it was the case in the past but this is a very different situation. The vote is no longer split along party lines and it will be the floating voters, the Don't Knows, who will decide it.

They got 50% of the first preference share in 2007 (thats 1 in every 2 - amazing).

Can you provide statistics to back this up or are you just supporting FF?

Even giving that a large percentage of this was a Cullen ministerial vote, FF will always get 25% plus which is enough to elect Keneally without a doubt.

You just don't seem to appreciate the anti-FF anger out there. I think that FF only got two of its candidates elected to the city council at the Locals. That's a wipeout. Some of its FF TD replacements who were possibly being brought into the system with the intention of replacing Kenneally and Cullen couldn't get elected.

FG will never win 3 seats in Waterford, they will do well to elect 2, besides they only selected 2 candidates Coffey and Deasy. Who would they run as a third??

Same as last time - D'Arcy. (Yes I realise that he's yet another bloody school teacher but unlike most FFers, he has a public profile.)

Regards...jmcc

AdMMM

Can you provide statistics to back this up or are you just supporting FF?

Martin Cullen 11,438 23.09%
Brendan Kenneally 5,624 11.36%
Ollie Wilkinson 5,963 12.04%

I think that FF only got two of its candidates elected to the city council at the Locals.

It was one, Gary Wyse.

Same as last time - D'Arcy. (Yes I realise that he's yet another bloody school teacher but unlike most FFers, he has a public profile.)

I would argue that D'Arcy is a spent force and has achieved all he can achieve in politics. John Cummins would probably be the better option.

jmcc

AdMMM wrote: »

Martin Cullen 11,438 23.09%
Brendan Kenneally 5,624 11.36%
Ollie Wilkinson 5,963 12.04%

Now with Cullen out of the picture, and an electorate with a markedly anti-FF sentiment, how do you think that an FF candidate such as Keneally will do? And does FF even have a replacement for Cullen?

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

AdMMM wrote: »

It was one, Gary Wyse.

Yep. It was absolutely brilliant to see him beat some of the genetic FFers. Though still I think that losing Mary Roche so that some of the usual FFers could get nominations was one of the stupidest mistakes FF ever made.

I would argue that D'Arcy is a spent force and has achieved all he can achieve in politics. John Cummins would probably be the better option.

You may be right about this. I remember talking to him at some event a few years ago. He was the classic students rep type of individual - perhaps a competent backroom type but he didn't have the charisma to be a TD candidate. Not sure about John Cummins as I've never met him. But it might be better for FG to run a younger candidate than another Dead Enda type.

Regards...jmcc

Deise Tom

jmcc wrote: »

Now with Cullen out of the picture, and an electorate with a markedly anti-FF sentiment, how do you think that an FF candidate such as Keneally will do? And does FF even have a replacement for Cullen?

Regards...jmcc

Do they need one. Lets face it it would be the greatest miracle of all time if FF were returned next time out. And if they were to put too many names on the ticket, the chances are that transfers would go all over the place and they could loose out on even havining one td elected.

jmcc

Deise Tom wrote: »

Do they need one. Lets face it it would be the greatest miracle of all time if FF were returned next time out. And if they were to put too many names on the ticket, the chances are that transfers would go all over the place and they could loose out on even havining one td elected.

There might be more of a chance of a Green TD than two FF TDs in the next GE. The tweedledum and tweedledee approach of a a high profile candidate dragging in a low profile candidate has always worked for FF before but without the high profile one they are in real trouble. They can only hope that the combined city and county vote will be enough to get Kenneally elected. However I would not count on it as this may well shape up to be something line the elections from the early 1980s.

Regards...jmcc

Predictor

AdMMM wrote: »

I would argue that D'Arcy is a spent force and has achieved all he can achieve in politics. John Cummins would probably be the better option.

Yes you are probably right, any time I have heard him on WLRfm he has been very good, well able to put a point across for a young guy (thats not to be patronizing).

Jmcc you could be right in relation to FF but I severely doubt it, I'm certainly not a supporter of them, the fact that 1 in 2 voted for them have been highlighted by AdMMM. Should FG look to run 3 then? I'd prefer to see them get an extra seat than Labour anyway.

Trotter

Amazing that the government are still refusing to give us a by-election in Waterford even after the High Court decision today.

Will we see someone fighting the battle for us to have our full allocation of 4 TDs or will it just rumble on?
Is there much frustration in Waterford about this at all?

Daysha

Simple really. The Coalition will still have a majority (just) if and when they lose the by-election in Donegal. Calling Waterford means calling the 2 others along with it, and defeats there means the end of the Government.

That's why I doubt we're going to get a by-election at this stage. Even FF must realise that they would simply be wasting our money trying to fight 3 seperate by-elections when the voters can effectively call an immediate general election by voting against them.

Calling a general election when they're forced into calling the other by-elections is the logical thing to do, but logic and Fianna Fail rarely goes hand in hand.

Sully

Merged with existing thread on bye/general election.

jmcc

I guess this puts SF back in contention for a seat in Waterford. It's the only party that could be considered a protest vote. Labour has the tired old fogey problem and could be caught on the hop if the government falls in the next few days.

Regards...jmcc

AdMMM

I thought SF were dead again? They polled surprisingly well in the 2002 election (punching above their weight, you could argue) but 2007 brought them back down to earth in the General Election and again in last years local elections (where they lost a seat and had David Cullinane lose a big chunk of his vote). Sinn Fein will always be a party that's there, operating in the background and poised for attack, but are never going to be considered a main party ever again.

I would say the same for the Greens. The trend is that the coalition partners tend to be wiped out and I think Greens would be lucky to return 1 or 2 members back to the Dail should a General Election be called.

deise_boi

No surprise to see the motion for a by-election in Waterford was defeated just a moment ago. This's just a saga now :mad:

AdMMM

I see Paudie Coffey has announced he's taking legal action against the Government and thus, in my opinion, securing his seat for the bye-election.

deise_boi

I'm sure if Coffey wins his case then we'll see another appeal from the Government, like with the Donegal case. Just another way for the govt to continue to blow taxpayer's money away.

AdMMM

There would be no legal merit to choosing to appeal the Waterford bye-election case to the Supreme Court given circumstances of the Donegal case are almost identical and a precedent will be set, regardless of the outcome.

Sully

The Irish Times article:-

Fine Gael announced today it will bring court proceedings against the Government to force it to move the writ for the Waterford and Dublin South byelections.

The Waterford seat has been vacant since former Fianna Fáil minister Martin Cullen stepped down for health reasons in March.

Fine Gael Dublin TD George Lee resigned from the Dáil in February.

An Opposition motion to move the writs for the outstanding byelections was voted down by the Government in the Dáil in September.

Dublin South constituency chairman Michael Van Turnhout today gave formal notice of his intention to bring proceedings against the Government for failing to support the moving of the writ.

Fine Gael Senator Paudie Coffey, who is the party’s byelection candidate in Waterford, claimed the Government was “perpetrating a continuing constitutional wrong in its failure to move the writ”.

Mr Coffey said the Government is “motivated only by their determination to evade the electorate and their actions have forced me to bring these proceedings”.

The High Court yesterday upheld a challenge by Sinn Féin Senator Pierse Doherty to the Government’s refusal to move a writ for the Donegal South East byelection. He argued that the delay amounted to a breach of his constitutional rights.

The Government said it would appeal the High Court decision to the Supreme Court.

Mr Coffey said the Government said there was no basis for such an appeal. “The Government is trying to misuse the courts at taxpayers’ expense and make what can only be described as a frivolous, vexatious and unnecessary application to the Supreme Court,” he said.

Link:: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1104/breaking38.html

His own press release;
http://www.facebook.com/notes/paudie-coffey-waterford-bye-election/fg-waterford-by-election-candidate-to-bring-court-proceedings-against-government/153861337990455

and the letter sent to the Government;
http://www.finegael.ie/upload/PCLetterThu041110.pdf

About time the government got challenged here in Waterford also. SF win the case for Donegal, so the government agrees to hold it there but still refuses everywhere else. Enough is enough.

Hoffmans

will anything change with some new regiem getting in,,,,,,,,,,,

Deise Tom

Hoffmans wrote: »

will anything change with some new regiem getting in,,,,,,,,,,,

Good Question.

Guilmore for one cant open his mouth about developers anymore.