Any update on the doolin harbour proposal?

rodento

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5589:inadequate-pier-is-hurting-doolin-tourism&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

It's a bit freaky reading someone quoting you in a newspaper article...

hollysf

doubt it will get the go ahead with the new 200 million harbour being built in Galway soon, plans for a new pier in Rossaveal got the bin because of the new harbour

rodento

On what grounds can you say that, funding is in place, all they need is the permission:rolleyes:

OldGuysRule

Funding has been approved and is waiting, it is ESF so local politics etc will not impact.

CRenegade

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0321/1224292707900.html

CRenegade

Permission granted for the pier today unfortunately.

I have a post up on my site about it if anyone wants a gander.

rodento

Looks like they want to start construction soon

OldGuysRule

There is still a substantial 'design and build' procurement process to be undertaken by CCC first, this will take months; ie advertise across EU, period for preparation of submissions by candidates, period for assessment of submissions by CCC, approval / award of contracts. Minimum of 3 - 4 months before works commence on site I reckon if they follow the route previously advised.

spaceHopper

As far as I can see they have no fore shore license applicaon made either.

What are the WCSC planning are they going to keep trying? Or do they believe it's over.

They aren't keeping people up to date it's difficult from the outside to see what's going on or if any help can be given.... please regular updates to keep this alive.

CRenegade

spaceHopper wrote: »

As far as I can see they have no fore shore license applicaon made either.

What are the WCSC planning are they going to keep trying? Or do they believe it's over.

They aren't keeping people up to date it's difficult from the outside to see what's going on or if any help can be given.... please regular updates to keep this alive.

Sorry Spacehopper - its hard to keep everything going at once. There is a facebook page just after been setup last night to gather support, if you click on my facebook page or Emerald Surfwear FB page you will find the link.

Yes, no foreshore licence applied yet but that will be coming and we will be making a substantial submission.

The WCSC are keeping this going, we will continue to fight to save the waves. A lot of work is being undertaken behind the scenes since the decision and we will continue until its resolved.

I will make a substantial post on my own site within the next 24 hours of the current situation. As you can imagine, keeping up to date with facebook, Boards.ie, magicseaweed, surfaroundireland.com, etc. and working on our submissions takes time.

let me know if there is a specific line of work you may be able to help with.

Appreciate the support for this guys, and stick with us as we are sticking with the cause.

NickDrake

CRenegade wrote: »

Sorry Spacehopper - its hard to keep everything going at once. There is a facebook page just after been setup last night to gather support, if you click on my facebook page or Emerald Surfwear FB page you will find the link.

Yes, no foreshore licence applied yet but that will be coming and we will be making a substantial submission.

The WCSC are keeping this going, we will continue to fight to save the waves. A lot of work is being undertaken behind the scenes since the decision and we will continue until its resolved.

I will make a substantial post on my own site within the next 24 hours of the current situation. As you can imagine, keeping up to date with facebook, Boards.ie, magicseaweed, surfaroundireland.com, etc. and working on our submissions takes time.

let me know if there is a specific line of work you may be able to help with.

Appreciate the support for this guys, and stick with us as we are sticking with the cause.

Good to see the support is still there and hasn't died away.

Seemed to me that a lot of people were hopping on the bandwagon and savign the waves just to be seen to do it.

Will these people now been seen protesting when the diggers come in. Paddling out to get in the way? Chaining themselves to diggers. I hope so

Because so many have talked the talked and now they will have to walk the walk.

Anyway it shouldn't be a problem as many surfers in Clare are on the dole and should have time to do it.

But the question is if there are waves elsewhere on the day the diggers come in will they be there to protest??

I hope there is more to this than just internet protesting and try to be seen to be doing something

spaceHopper

CRenegade wrote: »

Sorry Spacehopper - its hard to keep everything going at once. There is a facebook page just after been setup last night to gather support, if you click on my facebook page or Emerald Surfwear FB page you will find the link.

Yes, no foreshore licence applied yet but that will be coming and we will be making a substantial submission.

The WCSC are keeping this going, we will continue to fight to save the waves. A lot of work is being undertaken behind the scenes since the decision and we will continue until its resolved.

I will make a substantial post on my own site within the next 24 hours of the current situation. As you can imagine, keeping up to date with facebook, Boards.ie, magicseaweed, surfaroundireland.com, etc. and working on our submissions takes time.

let me know if there is a specific line of work you may be able to help with.

Appreciate the support for this guys, and stick with us as we are sticking with the cause.

I'm a member of the FB page set up to save doolin, crab island, I know everybody is working hard but updates are sprodaice at best. Pick one site and keep that going forget the rest to it. Can't acces FB in work but will look later at home good luck

rodento

Spacehopper me thinks its about time you paddled out and forgot about the beating you took off the point:eek:

If you don't take a chance now you may lose the opportunity to surf her forever:(

And just remember, crab like other breaks has its good days and bad, sometimes its a real nasty bastard, while others its just a joy to be out:D

spaceHopper

rodento wrote: »

Spacehopper me thinks its about time you paddled out and forgot about the beating you took off the point:eek:

If you don't take a chance now you may lose the opportunity to surf her forever:(

And just remember, crab like other breaks has its good days and bad, sometimes its a real nasty bastard, while others its just a joy to be out:D

A sure it was nothing just bouned off the reef twice, still get twinges in my shoulder blade from it but if I ever have kids I'd like them to be able to surf it and if we let these two go then sure what about x,y,z....

Oh and I still haven't fixed the board yet, three nice big dings the last time I looked nothing some resine won't fix.

CRenegade

spaceHopper wrote: »

I'm a member of the FB page set up to save doolin, crab island, I know everybody is working hard but updates are sprodaice at best. Pick one site and keep that going forget the rest to it. Can't acces FB in work but will look later at home good luck

A new page was set up by Emerald surfwear. I know there was another one but this is the new one now. Emerald guys have said they will commit a lot of time to promoting the page - something we dont have as much time for as we doing the submission work so it is a good thing and they are getting high profile surfers from across the water. Link

OldGuysRule

Guys, while the WCSC are doing brilliant work on this, and have been doing so for over a year, pressure needs to come from every angle. The WCSC and ISA will continue to be a reasoned angle in terms of communication with CCC, ABP, DoELH etc as it is vital that some form of coordinated and reasonable representation of surfers interests remains. There are however some issues that cannot be discussed across open forums etc in terms of the future plans. Without sounding exclusionary, if people want to really get involved, get in touch with their local club or the WCSC / ISA. This is too important an issue to be openly discussed in the anonymous openness of the web, without responsibility etc. There is a lot happening in the background

However, as noted above, pressure should now start coming from all quarters as it will seem better than just one local interest group moaning. Get involved with your local club and get letters of protest in, address concerns to the County Manager - he is pushing this. Ask him for a response as to why the surfers concerns are being ignored and why proper modelling was not carried out, even after the flows were pointed out SIX MONTHS AGO.

There is better solutions for the problem out there and the WCSC / ISA still support the requirement for a new pier, but just not one that damages the waves and makes the access potentially lethal. It is difficult to see how we can remain as reasonable for too much longer with Crab and Doolin Point potentially at stake.

NickDrake

CRenegade wrote: »

A new page was set up by Emerald surfwear. I know there was another one but this is the new one now. Emerald guys have said they will commit a lot of time to promoting the page - something we dont have as much time for as we doing the submission work so it is a good thing and they are getting high profile surfers from across the water. Link

Emerald are only doing that to get publicity. These are the fellas who were on Fade Street for god sake.

They are exactly what is wrong with surfing.

They are not doing it to protect this great wave. They are doing it to sell products. I think people shouldn't go near that FB page

CRenegade

NickDrake wrote: »

Emerald are only doing that to get publicity. These are the fellas who were on Fade Street for god sake.

They are exactly what is wrong with surfing.

They are not doing it to protect this great wave. They are doing it to sell products. I think people shouldn't go near that FB page

May or may not be so, I wont speculate on it but that page is there now and has some info. Yes it would have helped a few weeks ago before the councilors voted but what can ya do.

They are promoting it so thats that situation, We (WCSC & ISA) are carrying on with our submissions - a great deal of heavy work still to be done. That FB page wont hinder but as long as it stays clean, fair and non abusive.

The faith of the waves will inevitably lie in how our next submissions on the Foreshore Licence application, etc. will be received by the Department.

NickDrake

CRenegade wrote: »

May or may not be so, I wont speculate on it but that page is there now and has some info. Yes it would have helped a few weeks ago before the councilors voted but what can ya do.

They are promoting it so thats that situation, We (WCSC & ISA) are carrying on with our submissions - a great deal of heavy work still to be done. That FB page wont hinder but as long as it stays clean, fair and non abusive.

The faith of the waves will inevitably lie in how our next submissions on the Foreshore Licence application, etc. will be received by the Department.

Well done and keep up the good work. Great to hear that ye are so focused.

Regarding Emerald, I jsut don't trust those guys and what they do. Just look at fade street for example. It was disgraceful.

They are mad for publicity and try anything. I just don't think they are doing it for the wave.

I would advise people serious about protecting Crab and the point should stay away from the FB and the Emerald publicity stunt.

Best of luck

Rob001

Does anyone know seeing as the burren is considered important geologically, environmentally and large areas considered SAC's (special area of conservation) and NHS's. On the geological survey web site Submerged caves at doolin point as an SAC are even mentioned. Should environmental impact assessment be available from planning authority? I'm aware that SAC's and NHS's are constantly ignored by planning offices in Ireland.

rodento

Better of keeping options offline as old guy rules says, anyone can read this

CRenegade

Latest news: http://www.surfaroundireland.com/2011/03/surfers-will-continue-to-oppose-granted.html

PeakOutput

NickDrake wrote: »

Regarding Emerald, I jsut don't trust those guys and what they do. Just look at fade street for example. It was disgraceful.

you should meet one of them sometime and have a chat and see if you feel the same way afterwards

NickDrake

PeakOutput wrote: »

you should meet one of them sometime and have a chat and see if you feel the same way afterwards

So it is 100% not for publicity?? They are in no way trying to gain anything from this??

After the whole Fade Street D4 carry on I just don't think people can take them seriously on this.

I could be wrong but I don't think everyone is happy about them sticking the brand in on the protest. That's the word around anyway.

OldGuysRule

Emerald have rowed in behind the the current publicity drive, they have the ability to reach a large audience.

However, you would be very surprised by how much the individuals involved have helped in the background over the past several months. As they are part of the Irish surf industry, they have a stake in this, plus the guys involved regularly surf the waves there. Of course they are a commercial company with very strong links to Clare, it would be more of a surprise if they were not involved in some way.

It is a pity that people behind an anonymous login come along and attack an Irish company involved in the surf industry. Nickdrake, I do not know who you are, but have you had any involvement in this issue to date? Are you in any way assisting the ISA / WCSC or any other groups or any other way in defending these waves?

spaceHopper

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Nickdrake, I do not know who you are, but have you had any involvement in this issue to date? Are you in any way assisting the ISA / WCSC or any other groups or any other way in defending these waves?

OldGuy, save your breath, all he'd done in his last few post it try to pick a fight, ignore the fool.

NickDrake

spaceHopper wrote: »

OldGuy, save your breath, all he'd done in his last few post it try to pick a fight, ignore the fool.

Where am I trying to pick a fight exactly??

Thanks for the email above Old Guy. It clears things up. Well done to Emerald for getting invoved and it seems to be for the good of the wave.

I was just highlighting the fact that some people were commenting on their involvement. If it is not for sales and publicity as you said then well done to Emerald for getting involved.

Thats all I wanted to know.

The main thing here is protecting the wave.

Cheers

spaceHopper

NickDrake wrote: »

Where am I trying to pick a fight exactly??
Cheers

NickDrake wrote:

Seemed to me that a lot of people were hopping on the bandwagon and savign the waves just to be seen to do it.

NickDrake wrote:

Emerald are only doing that to get publicity. These are the fellas who were on Fade Street for god sake.

PS sad a f for watching it

rodento

Spacehopper did you ever get tried of winding people up:D

Macanri

Piece on RTE Radio 1! ... Right Now!

Barrak

Here is a link to what was on "Countrywide" on RTE radio one this morning
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/countrywide/


Fast forward to approx 25mins into show

rodento

Last chance, get those objections in



Notice is hereby given pursuant to Section 19 of the Foreshore Act, 1933 that Clare County Council, New Road, Ennis, Co. Clare, has applied to Mr. Phil Hogan T.D., Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for permission to occupy an area of foreshore at Doolin, Co. Clare for the purpose of constructing an access road, pier structure, revetment protection to the pier structure and associated dredging works at Doolin Pier, Doolin, Co. Clare.
Any person who wishes to make an objection to, or a representation in respect of, the grant of the permission sought should do so, giving their reasons in writing, to:
The Foreshore Unit, Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Newtown Road, Wexford within 21 days of publication of this notice. (Ref: MS 51/11/234)
All objections and representations received will be forwarded to the applicant for comment prior to any decision being made in the matter.
A copy of the application form, map, site plan, drawings of the area and other supporting project documentation may be inspected at both Ennistymon Garda Station, Ennistymon, Co. Clare and Lisdoonvarna Garda Station, Lisdoonvarna, Co. Clare.

CRenegade

Below are the details (address, dates, info) which are needed when submitting a submission on the Foreshore Lease application made by Clare Co. Co. to the Department of the Environment. Read the text below and we would urge as many people who have an interest in surfing, the natural beauty of the Doolin area or the proper planning and development of the area to post in a submission.

The Foreshore Unit,
Department of Environment, Heritage,
and Local Government,
Newtown Road,
Wexford.

Date: ____________

Re: Section 19 of the Foreshore Act, 1933. Clare Co. Co. application to Mr. Phil Hogan T.D., Minister for the Environment, Heritage & Local Government for permission to occupy an area of foreshore at Doolin, Co. Clare for the purpose of constructing an access road, pier structure and associated dredging works at Doolin Pier, Doolin, Co. Clare.
Ref: MS/51/11/234

Dear Sir/Madam,

________________________________________________________________________________________________

The following points are of concern and we would ask each of you to choose some of these points and maybe add some additional issues of your own, elaborate upon them with a few sentences and submit to the above address by post to arrive before 21st April 2011. The following points are the opinion of the West Coast Surf Club in light of our assessment of the proposed development:

• The new pier structure has the potential to destroy a highly regarded surfing wave at Doolin Point and potentially have a significant impact on the surfing quality of the world renowned wave at Crab Island.
• The new pier structure will be located where surfers currently safely access the water. The new development will result in a significant danger to surfers as they will have to enter the water at either the shore side of the pier, crossing the ferry paths, or at the seaward side of the pier where the reef is extremely dangerous and this will be compounded with the backwash from the new pier.
• The proposed pier, as designed, will create significant currents in the water in and around the area where surfers paddle. This will create a serious health and safety hazard and surfers may be dragged onto rocks, the new revetment or into the paths of ferries.
• The proposed pier is of an extremely large scale which will be visible from many surrounding areas, in particular the renowned views of the point from the hills to the south.
• The pier will involve significant blasting and dredging of the seabed. The full impacts that these activities will have on the environment in and around the subject site have not been assessed appropriately. The works will have potentially disastrous repercussions for different aquatic species in the area including Dolphins. A full Environmental Impact Statement should be prepared.
• The pier requires a new tarmac access road which will be constructed on the existing limestone pavement at Doolin Point.
• The development could have a significant impact on the amenity value of the Doolin area for surfers, sightseers, walkers, bird watchers, hikers, due to its size, and location.
• There is a need for a new pier, however a design which will not have the above negative impacts can be provided and should be designed as an alternative to the current proposal.

________________________________________________________________________________________

The above points are to guide you in your submission, however we would ask you to make your submission as personal and unique as possible. Please include your full address in the submission. There is no fee required.

JeanOH

this issue affects every surfer in the country...a weakness in opposition is as good as a green light...i genuinely hope there is unity in the surfing community in opposing this scandalous move... i often wonder whether the GAA brigade would suffer Semple Stadium, or Pairc Ui Caoimh being torn to the ground in the name of "progress" I cannot put in words the disgust or sick feeling in my stomach that i feel...

PeakOutput

Unfortunately it dosn't appear people are bothered, there are 5,500 members on the facebook page i believe and around 140 letters of objection were sent in

not really a great showing

kodute

PeakOutput wrote: »

Unfortunately it dosn't appear people are bothered, there are 5,500 members on the facebook page i believe and around 140 letters of objection were sent in

not really a great showing

Its very easy to click a 'like' button, but the print, fold, seal, stamp, post sequence is a bit too much for most. A real shame.

CRenegade

We've overturned Clare County Councils decision to grant permission for the pier.

A full Environmental Impact Assessment (including impact on waves) has to be undertaken in a new application to An Bord Pleanala.

More info on my site if interested.

Cheers for all the support over the past year +

OldGuysRule

We've overturned Clare County Councils decision to grant permission for the pier.

A full Environmental Impact Assessment (including impact on waves) has to be undertaken in a new application to An Bord Pleanala.

More info on my site if interested.

Cheers for all the support over the past year +

This important milestone would not have been achieved without the help of many people, however the overwhelming portion of the thanks / respect / debt goes to CRenegade for his expert judgement, untiring dedication and quielty calm leadership on the preparation and submission that achieved this result.

All surfers in Ireland, whether you have any intention of paddling out at Doolin / Crab or not, owe thanks and respect to this man. You might be on the other side of the world at the moment, but your always welcome in Clare. Enjoy your travels and see out the back at some stage.

Mickeroo

Thats great news, well done CRenegade.

rodento

Doolin pier gets a mention in the new LAP for the area. Seems major plans to upgrade facilities as well as extend pier are afoot. This decision should delay the extension by about a year

CRenegade

rodento wrote: »

Doolin pier gets a mention in the new LAP for the area. Seems major plans to upgrade facilities as well as extend pier are afoot. This decision should delay the extension by about a year

What exactly are you trying to say Rodent?

rodento

Just that from reading the LAP, one has to conclude that they have major plans for the area, the harbour extension been only a part of

It is an objective of the Council to provide for the upgrade and extension of
Doolin Pier and any associated activities related to Maritime and Tourism use.
Planning permission has been granted to the OPW to provide an Irish Coast Guard
Station in the vicinity of Doolin pier.

Doolin pier has a long history of visitor ferry operations to the Aran Islands and
as such generates a considerable amount of visitor traffic through the holiday
period which is a significant contributor to the local economy. It is important that
all development that takes place around the pier head area is sympathetic to its
sensitive location having regard to the proper planning and sustainable
development of the area. It will be an objective of the Council to accommodate
the renovation and extension of Doolin pier and to upgrade visitor facilities at this
location.

Also the harbour development is now in keeping with local plans as set out in the North Clare LAP 2011 - 2017

Their case is going to be stronger, they have a plan for the extension that now requires an EIS, my guess is they will resubmit the currect council passed one with an EIS, anything else will cost way more as it'd have to be re-designed

All I'm saying is don't put away your pens just yet

spaceHopper

rodento wrote: »

All I'm saying is don't put away your pens just yet

Wil you ever cheer up - come on let's be happy about this.

As far as building a pier - the ISA, WCSC and most other people are in favour of a new pier, it's just that this one was a bad design forced through.

Now they will have to do a EIR and it will be looked at by professionals who don't have to worry about local elections or who's scratching their back in some way.

The wave modeling Clare CC did was a joke and won't be accepted by An Board P do they will have to fix it.

Also if they submitt plans for third time and they get rejected they'll be a laughing stock the guy runing it will know this and want to make sure it goes through, the only way that's going to happen now is if they get it right, which is possible.

CRenegade

Ok RODENT, I'm not going to get into a string of posts with you - better things to be doing but to inform of others reading your post...

All that objective info was contained in the last Plan, its all pretty much waffle with no specifics that, yes is contained in a Statutory Plan, but can only be implemented if it accords with proper planning and sustainable development of the area. Ive seen such objectives in plans up and down the country but when it comes down to decision making its hard facts that cuts the cheese not what a councillor has decided to put into a plan.

The planning policy takes up one small section of an Environmental Impact Statement - the remainder is compiled from facts relating to the environment. It is these facts that will at the end of the day determine whether or not a proposal is worthy of a grant of permission and not policy written in Ennis.

An Bord Pleanála have looked at this in great detail, concluded that there are many sensitive receptors in and around the site at Doolin that would be impacted upon by the development - Including surfing! These will all have to be addressed adequately in an EIS and through the drawings and detailed particulars associated with a new pier design.

The council cannot put together enviro reports like the last time and say there will be no effect. The Board will be watching that very carefully. If the EIS is not prepared correctly the Board will deem the new application invalid. I know very closely how An Bord Pleanala works my former boss was a former chairperson of the Board.

Ireland have not been carrying out their obligations in respect of Environmental Impact Assessments in the past and the European Union have caught us up on this on many occaisions recently. A new planning act was introduced last year to try solve this but were still not there.

The areas in and around doolin pier are protected with EU status and this overrides any small objective of a local plan.

We will not be putting our pens down just yet (as you advised) - we didnt stop after the first application, we didnt stop after the second application, we didnt stop when they applied to the Dept. Of Enviro for the Foreshore and we certaintly didnt stop with our submission to An Bord Pleanala.

Yes its not a closed case and we still have work to do. We will keep at it until there are no other routes or alternatively if the pier is designed with proof that it will not impact on the waves and surfers access to the water.

OldGuysRule

Neil,
I am just glad that you are a surfer and that we have your input. Once again, cheers.

Conor,
With your obvious interest and background, you are welcome to come and meet us or discuss it any time. Your input would be welcome, but let's keep it positive. You do not always have to be the devil's advocate, although I am sure he is relieved to be constantly reminded that you are on his side.

spaceHopper

OldGuysRule wrote: »

devil's advocate, although I am sure he is relieved to be constantly reminded that you are on his side.

Are you sure he wasn't kicked out of hell and is really one of the un-dead it would explain a lot

kodute

Well done CRenegade and all involved! Keep up the fight!

rodento

What I forgot to say is that it'd be good if we could see an overall plan for the area with the proposed rescue centre and improved tourist falcilities. We may be able to see the context of the proposed harbour extension location

keryl

Great work.

Really is a shame that they would sacrifice something completely natural and that costs nothing (surfers don't expect luxuries to catch a few waves) but gains money through surf tourism for the sake of making a small few happy.

Hope this all works out for everyone.:)

Sportsmad_Mick

Doolin is such a great little spot but the pier is an eye sore at the moment with all the cabins and gimmicky signs around the place- looks a bit trailor park for an area that is so gorgeous- hopefully any new plans will include a bit more structure to make it less bitty at the pier