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What age to leave kids home alone?

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    padr81 wrote: »
    in Ireland, murder rates, robbery rates, rapes etc...
    What are you basing that claim on? Any specific data to back it up, or is it just as I said that people are fed bad news 24hours a day by the media so become scared of the bogyman?

    A very quick Googling found the data for murder going back 10 years:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    Can't see anything there to suggest an increase has been happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Daisy!


    I look after children for a living and in my experience of minding all ages for the last few years I'd say I wouldn't leave my own child alone for a short time until they were around 12 or 13. That would only be for a short time though, if I was away for a day I'd have to find other arrangements until they were at least 15/16. But then at that age you have other things to worry about :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    Just to say that i was minding kids at 15 and staying over night as their parents were doing nights shifts and at 16 i left home rented a room and workled 5/7 8-12 hours a day.

    We do worry about our kids more these days as we more aware of what goes on, yep those were the days that you could leave the keys in the door or leave the door wide open and nothing would happen, now , not a hope. You get people who pay a high price for leaving their kids for a while (mc canns) yet others can get away with it. You will never know its the wrong time until you get home and find your child gone, murdered or raped. S**t happens you cant predict when its gonna happen and to who, we as parents just try to prevent it from happening to our kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭astra2000


    Just to say that i was minding kids at 15 and staying over night as their parents were doing nights shifts and at 16 i left home rented a room and workled 5/7 8-12 hours a day.

    We do worry about our kids more these days as we more aware of what goes on, yep those were the days that you could leave the keys in the door or leave the door wide open and nothing would happen, now , not a hope. You get people who pay a high price for leaving their kids for a while (mc canns) yet others can get away with it. You will never know its the wrong time until you get home and find your child gone, murdered or raped. S**t happens you cant predict when its gonna happen and to who, we as parents just try to prevent it from happening to our kids.

    Exactly grindelwald who wants to put their kids at risk even if it may be percieved to be a very small one. Does noone here recall what happened to the poor Mccann family when they were only a short distance away from their kids. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭padr81


    robinph wrote: »
    What are you basing that claim on? Any specific data to back it up, or is it just as I said that people are fed bad news 24hours a day by the media so become scared of the bogyman?

    A very quick Googling found the data for murder going back 10 years:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    Can't see anything there to suggest an increase has been happening.

    http://www.cso.ie/statistics/recordedmurders.htm

    17 murders in 1990 when I was 9.
    60 murders in 2006, when I was 25.

    I'd say thats a major increase, no?

    "its uncommon and will never happen to me" = famous last words.
    I'll be the McCann's thought, ah we're only 100 yards away, nothing will happen. Better safe than sorry.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭00112984


    padr81 wrote: »
    I'll be the McCann's thought, ah we're only 100 yards away, nothing will happen.

    Ding-a-ling-a-ling-a-ling!!!

    Was wondering when the McCanns would get a mention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭deisemum


    The scumbag woman next door has been going out most nights and not getting back before 3am+ and leaves her children from 2 or 3 up to 12 or 14 locked in the house where they're running round screaming, crying and fighting with each other.

    The most worrying thing is that there have been fires in previous places that they've rented.

    This family is so dysfunctional. The woman's partner who's also known to the gardai beats the **** of of these children. They rarely go to school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭padr81


    00112984 wrote: »
    Ding-a-ling-a-ling-a-ling!!!

    Was wondering when the McCanns would get a mention.

    well it is the most high profile example.

    Deisemum - report them to social services. Its better to do something about it or the kids could well turn out the same way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Liberalbrehon


    I think a dose of common sense applies. Go into city centres and you will see kids as young as 7 minding 3 or 4 year old's crossing busy roads. They may not get good education but they know how to look after themselves on the street. well until they bump into the local drug dealer.

    What annoys me about this thread is the "ah sure it was safe back in my day"
    let me tell you something, it was not safe back in your day. Your parents were just not open to the same media hype, where to busy working to worry excessively about things that might happen.

    Young boys and girls were abused in small villages/towns around country in 1950's all the time. However, the risk of it happening were very small. Young children 8-10 and it does depend on the child are capable of staying in a house for a couple of hours without the sky falling in or the parent dying or not being able to get back to house. In fact they are capable of a lot more than they are given scope for.

    It's up to the parent to decide, the parent maybe completely irresponsible or not but you have to build confidence in a young child or they will never become responsible for themselves. A little bit of , "you're staying on your own for a couple of hours. If you mess up you will lose privileges for a month".

    So I would leave you with this final thought. You may risk something "bad" happening in the immediate but you may also be so over protective that it instills so much fear, lack of confidence, ability in your child that they are unable to act in the adult world with the self reliance that is required to survive and thrive. Just cause you can't see that risk in the future doesn't mean it isn't there. I have seen it happen and it can last decades to gain that confidence that should have been there. Life is full of risk. Children need to be taught that they have to bear the burden for their own well-being early on.

    What about an different type of emergency where the eldest child is required to stay in house. If in an emergency they haven't been trained or given experience they become the burden rather than the help to save someone else. Point is being over protective is just as much a risk as being too laissez-faire about it.

    So in regard the OP imo I think you over reacted to your husband. Your focus was completely misplaced. Because what you did was put too much emphasis on your husband's actions and not on your daughters achievement in self-reliance. You should have applauded her for that, instead you diminished it. I imagine her feelings were probably hurt by your actions. You should have a policy worked out in advance with partner/husband on building up daughters/children experience of minding themselves, so it is a slow build-up rather than a big bang. That was both your responsibility. And at the end of the day, a father will always take more risks with children than a mother, it's a genetic deficiency :).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 493 ✭✭trustno1


    astra2000 wrote: »
    Exactly grindelwald who wants to put their kids at risk even if it may be percieved to be a very small one. Does noone here recall what happened to the poor Mccann family when they were only a short distance away from their kids. :(

    Eh.. I think its apples and pears mentioning the McCanns here - the OP was asking at what age was an appropriate time to leave your children i.e. when they are at an age when they can start to look after themselves for a short time - the McCann children should have UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES been left on their own.. they were practially just babies.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug



    What annoys me about this thread is the "ah sure it was safe back in my day" .

    Ah but...:pac:

    In my post I wasn't talking about abuse. Actually we knew our friendly neighbourhood pervert well and knew not to let him in!

    I still think things were different for some people in some places. My parents still live in the same house and there's no way they'd leave the key in the door now and it's got nothing to with media hype. It's a very rural area but quite a few people in the locality have been burgled over the past 10 years or so, some of them while they were at home, during the day. Again I can only talk from my own personal experience but that is something that just did not happen in that area 30/ 40 years ago. How would a child of 9 cope with that? Not worth the risk IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    Your child is old enough to be left home alone, when they're old enough to be trusted with their own key.

    Simple.

    I'd say a good age would probably be 11 or 12, maybe even 13.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    When I was 12 occasionally I was left in charge of my younger brother and sister after school and cooked dinner for them until my mother got home at 8pm.............this was in 1989 so not light years ago and we all survived. I also used to babysit for other people from time to time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭deisemum


    padr81 wrote: »
    well it is the most high profile example.

    Deisemum - report them to social services. Its better to do something about it or the kids could well turn out the same way.

    My neighbours and myself are blue in the face phoning Social Services trying to report what we're witnessing and they don't want to know despite TD intervention. When the social worker does turn up while they're in the house she'll ring the bell and flee before anyone can answer it and then tick it of her list of home visits.

    We've been on to the gardai who seem to be the only ones doing anything, Barnardos, Social Services, Animal Welfare, Social Welfare, City Council, HSE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,495 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The consensus seem to be that at 11 its okay to leave a child alone for a short while provided the child is happy to be left alone and is sensible about it.

    My youngest use to walk home form school at 11 and let herself in and was on her own for about 1.15 hours...i wasn't very happy with having to do this but had no choice at the time...it was more the fact that she was coming home to an empty house, walking home on her own that worried me not the fact that she would be in the house minding her self... she was well able to take care of herself...i dont know if times are different now but i baby sat at 13 i had a part time job at 14...not sure if people would be happy with a 13 year old baby sitter now nor would people be happy to see a 14 year old working all the summer holidays

    I know a girl who is now 28 but when she was 8 she was sent to a private school that involved going on public transport on her own...today if a child of 8 was put on the dart on their own and told to go to school it would be considered very bad parenting yet 20 years ago no one though anything of it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    From experience, about 35 years of age, if you want to come home and find the house intact.

    But from 10 years of age they should be OK for a few mins.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    padr81 wrote: »
    17 murders in 1990 when I was 9.
    60 murders in 2006, when I was 25.

    Not disputing this but you should bear in mind that the population is about 20% higher now which would account for some of the rise.

    I still can't necessarily understand why there is an automatic correlation between murder rates and - still relatively rare I would assume - child abduction. I'm just surmising; perhaps somebody can enlighten us.

    I also wonder how many murders fall into the category of purposeful abduction and murder - the kind most beloved of scare tales - as opposed to domestic killings, fights, gangland murders and so on. And of those abductions and murders, how many involve children.

    It would appear to me to be nonsensical to use, say, gangland killings as a gauge to how likely your child is to be abducted and murdered but, again, perhaps somebody with more knowledge can enlighten me.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think a dose of common sense applies. Go into city centres and you will see kids as young as 7 minding 3 or 4 year old's crossing busy roads. They may not get good education but they know how to look after themselves on the street. well until they bump into the local drug dealer.

    If your seven year old is buying cocaine you're probably giving him too much pocket money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Liberalbrehon


    :D LOL


  • Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭padr81


    stovelid wrote: »
    Not disputing this but you should bear in mind that the population is about 20% higher now which would account for some of the rise.

    I still can't necessarily understand why there is an automatic correlation between murder rates and - still relatively rare I would assume - child abduction. I'm just surmising; perhaps somebody can enlighten us.

    I also wonder how many murders fall into the category of purposeful abduction and murder - the kind most beloved of scare tales - as opposed to domestic killings, fights, gangland murders and so on. And of those abductions and murders, how many involve children.

    It would appear to me to be nonsensical to use, say, gangland killings as a gauge to how likely your child is to be abducted and murdered but, again, perhaps somebody with more knowledge can enlighten me.

    Indeed and I agree but i just stated murder rates were up from when I was a kid and i was told they weren't increasing by Robinph. No doubt the majority of these are gangland or domestic disputes etc... and i'd say the incident of child murders are more common among family members than strangers.

    A child doesn't have to be abdutcted to be killed. A botched burgulary, some scum that breaks into a house find a child on his or her own and has his way with them (not murder buy you know)... while the odds are slim... very slim it still doesn't make it any less real for the families who have experienced it.

    While you can never guarantee it won't happen, and i'd say its far more likely to happen a kid playing outside than one left alone in their own home it still happens. Isn't it better to makes the odds of it happening 0.0000000000000001% instead of 0.0000001%.

    My way of thinking is why put yourself or your kids in a position where it could happen to you if you don't need to, thats all. No harm in giving kids a bit or responsibility at all, at 11-12 it'd be ok to let a child stay home alone for awhile knowing that they'd hopefully have the smarts to not allow anyone in etc... but if the worst came to the worst theirs no way they could fight off an attacker etc....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Hi

    Can anyone tell me what age they feel its ok to leave children home alone for a few hours?

    I was away at the weekend and my hubby left our daughter who is 9, (10 in November) home alone while he went to a neighbours house to watch a football match with our other 2 children! He called twice to make sure she was ok, and she knew not to answer door etc, and she had his num to call him in emergency, but I was livid as feel she is far to young, she still believes in Santa for goodness sake!

    Am I over-reacting?

    I dont understand why he didnt bring them with him:confused: They could have played in other room rather than been left home alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Liberalbrehon


    padr81 wrote: »

    My way of thinking is why put yourself or your kids in a position where it could happen to you if you don't need to, thats all. No harm in giving kids a bit or responsibility at all, at 11-12 it'd be ok to let a child stay home alone for awhile knowing that they'd hopefully have the smarts to not allow anyone in etc... but if the worst came to the worst theirs no way they could fight off an attacker etc....

    Didn't you see Home Alone 1, 2 and 3 :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    Trying to find a link to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of law/guideline that says that kids can't be left on their own until they turn 13. Will keep looking and post back if I find it.


    Edit: Nope, couldn't find it, could only find 2 articles saying there is no legal limit. However, the ISPCA suggest 16 as being the minimum age (a bit old imo):
    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/11/11/story727405466.asp
    http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/Irish-Times-Their-freedom-your-fears


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    What annoys me about this thread is the "ah sure it was safe back in my day"
    let me tell you something, it was not safe back in your day. Your parents were just not open to the same media hype, where to busy working to worry excessively about things that might happen.

    Young boys and girls were abused in small villages/towns around country in 1950's all the time.
    Just surmising here, but I wonder whether, in some ways, children are actually safer now than back in the day? E.g. from sexual abuse?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭deisemum


    Dudess wrote: »
    Just surmising here, but I wonder whether, in some ways, children are actually safer now than back in the day? E.g. from sexual abuse?

    I think the same level of risk exists or may even be higher due to the online demand for such sick images but nowadays children are more likely to be believed. Most child sex abuse is still going on within families and family friends and as hard as it is to fathom there are a lot of families who are prepared to sweep it under the carpet.

    One of my friends has the difficult job of counselling sexually abused children and her department are under pressure with the demand for their services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 melissahodson


    Deisemum, oh my god those poor kids would be prob better off with foster family! I would report the parents, if something serious did happen to one of them and u did nothing u would not be able to live with yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 melissahodson


    caseyann wrote: »
    I dont understand why he didnt bring them with him:confused: They could have played in other room rather than been left home alone.

    I know that was my main prob, he brought the younger two, but our eldest wanted to stay and watch a movie, I said the same she could have watched it on laptop in diff room if she didn't want to watch football. I am glad i put this message up now as got mixed comments and i can honestly say he will NEVER leave her alone again!!! I still feel strongly that 9 nearly 10 to young and wil see when she is 13, when she is in secondary school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 melissahodson


    Trying to find a link to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of law/guideline that says that kids can't be left on their own until they turn 13. Will keep looking and post back if I find it.


    Edit: Nope, couldn't find it, could only find 2 articles saying there is no legal limit. However, the ISPCA suggest 16 as being the minimum age (a bit old imo):
    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/11/11/story727405466.asp
    http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/Irish-Times-Their-freedom-your-fears

    Its ridiculous isn't it that there is no law??? I searched th internet high and low at the time trying to find guidelines etc, but it was more saying that if anything happened u could be done for neglect, but not stating age they could be left at. I think 16 if its night time you will be gone, but think prob 13 if it was an hour or so in the afternoon. Thanks for articles :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 melissahodson


    So in regard the OP imo I think you over reacted to your husband. Your focus was completely misplaced. Because what you did was put too much emphasis on your husband's actions and not on your daughters achievement in self-reliance. You should have applauded her for that, instead you diminished it. I imagine her feelings were probably hurt by your actions. You should have a policy worked out in advance with partner/husband on building up daughters/children experience of minding themselves, so it is a slow build-up rather than a big bang. That was both your responsibility. And at the end of the day, a father will always take more risks with children than a mother, it's a genetic deficiency :).[/QUOTE]

    In my defence, my daughter did not know I was upset with my husband, we never argue in front of them, and she was not nor is aware that I was annoyed with my husband for leaving her. I asked was the movie good, did anyone knock at door, call the house etc, and she knew not to answer door as she is not allowed ans door when I am in the shower etc. I still stand by my view that 9 is too young, she has plenty of time to grow up and be given responsibility. I feel people want children to grow up too quick nowadays, their childhood is precious, from the tv to media its all about them growing up fast, sexualising their clothes, magazines etc, I mean they even had padded bra's for 9 yr old!!! Whats that all about? She is an innocent 9yr old and I am delighted about that, she has plenty of time to grow up. Its a big bad world out there and its my job to protect her.
    We had not had a discussion about the appropriate age to leave her etc, as it has never come up, but he knew my views from discussions we had when my sister was leaving her son and her worries and he was 14!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    I know that was my main prob, he brought the younger two, but our eldest wanted to stay and watch a movie, I said the same she could have watched it on laptop in diff room if she didn't want to watch football. I am glad i put this message up now as got mixed comments and i can honestly say he will NEVER leave her alone again!!! I still feel strongly that 9 nearly 10 to young and wil see when she is 13, when she is in secondary school.


    I completely agree with you,it must feel right when you leave them alone.
    Always think back for myself when i was left alone,and how friends turned up at door wanting in.I remember one time they turned up with a few of the male friends.(i was 13 at the time)And i didnt mind three of them.Not long after loads arrived at the door and forced into the house.Luckily one of the neighbours turned up and rang the garda.
    In a case of an 8 year old if anything happened and she panicked which luckily didnt happen.But we are there to make sure they dont have to deal with things till they are mature and capable.Heck even older sometimes not capable.
    I would put it down to perhaps he was left alone at home young and he is taking from his own experiences.I always see people who forget what they did when younger when left alone.
    Also people alot of them really over estimate younger kids these days.They are still only babies even if not in nappies,but people seem to assume they are even though they werent when young.


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