Parthenaise Cattle

Pat the lad

Does anyone use this breed for producing weanlings for selling/shipping at 10-12 months. I was hoping to use Parthenaise on a few of the cows this winter as a trial. I use alot of BB & Limo at the moment on my cows which are 3/4 limo's & Sim's, plus a few blondes & BB crossess. I get good weight & prices at the moment, but would like to go to the next level - consistently getting E grade or export quality weanlings.

I thought Parthenaise might bring a bit a extra style i.e lenght & shape. Has anyone used them for producing weanlings??? Has anyone use SNX - some looking bull - although his just over 10% for calving on the ICBF figures???or whats the best bull to use??? Indeed most of the Parthenaise buls are up or over 10% for calving??? ARE THEY HARD CALVERS?????
The seem to make good cows too???

Does anyone use this breed??? or should I up my useage of BB - I use alot of EZL & AVD at the moment. What Empire D'Ochain -EZN like??? Heard mix reports on calving.
Any advise on the Parthenaise would be great - Thanks

vanderbadger

Pat the lad wrote: »

Does anyone use this breed for producing weanlings for selling/shipping at 10-12 months. I was hoping to use Parthenaise on a few of the cows this winter as a trial. I use alot of BB & Limo at the moment on my cows which are 3/4 limo's & Sim's, plus a few blondes & BB crossess. I get good weight & prices at the moment, but would like to go to the next level - consistently getting E grade or export quality weanlings.

I thought Parthenaise might bring a bit a extra style i.e lenght & shape. Has anyone used them for producing weanlings??? Has anyone use SNX - some looking bull - although his just over 10% for calving on the ICBF figures???or whats the best bull to use??? Indeed most of the Parthenaise buls are up or over 10% for calving??? ARE THEY HARD CALVERS?????
The seem to make good cows too???

Does anyone use this breed??? or should I up my useage of BB - I use alot of EZL & AVD at the moment. What Empire D'Ochain -EZN like??? Heard mix reports on calving.
Any advise on the Parthenaise would be great - Thanks

bought a parthenaise bull this season, he only had a few cows to bull but it will be interesting to see how he goes, they are lovely cattle, went to see pedigree herd and thought they were the quietest cattle i had ever seen, brought lovely muscle, suppose to make great suckler cows and thought to be a good cross for a blue bull, anyway i suppose i wont know till i have a few calves outta this chap..in general i think they are considered easy calvers but i remember the guy i bought bull from telling me sansonnet and universal were harder calved than some of the french bulls he used for ai, they dont really seem to have caught on in ireland, if they calf easy and are quiet enough and bring a bit of muscle then they should be a good breed to get into..i hope anyway

leg wax

pat i had part bulls out of blonde and red lim cows and they were super cattle sold them at the end of june the 4 bulls made 1100 euro each but the shippers still wanted the blues more paying 1000 euro with the weight, i kept the part heifers and served the first one this morning with sfl, i think the part as a dam crossed with blue will bring super blues, have to say i was impressed with them at the ploughing again this year.

pakalasa

Pat the lad wrote: »

....What Empire D'Ochain -EZN like??? Heard mix reports on calving.

At 34% with 95% reliability, Empire is a really hard calver, in the bottom 1% of the BB breed. I noticed at the Ploughing that over the half the BB bulls on show were by him.
That's the trouble with buying in a BB bull. You would really want to know their breeding. You could have a lot of calving problems on your hands.

I tried FHZ myself last year. At 11.7% calving, he's on the easy side. Tried him on a big black Lim Cow I have. Quality only ok, to be honest. Looks like he'll be very big though. I think you'd need at least 3/4 bred Lim on the cow side.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

At 34% with 95% reliability, Empire is a really hard calver, in the bottom 1% of the BB breed. I noticed at the Ploughing that over the half the BB bulls on show were by him.
That's the trouble with buying in a BB bull. You would really want to know their breeding. You could have a lot of calving problems on your hands.

I tried FHZ myself last year. At 11.7% calving, he's on the easy side. Tried him on a big black Lim Cow I have. Quality only ok, to be honest. Looks like he'll be very big though. I think you'd need at least 3/4 bred Lim on the cow side.

was talking to a blue breeder, I asked about empire, like yourself i have often wondered why he is so popular considering he is such a hard calver on paper at least.. breeder told me he considered empire an easy calver especially on commercial cows..remember i was at a teagasc beef thing one night and there was a breeder showing off some of his limousin stock, anyway his bull showed up as a particularly hard calver on icbf, the breeder spoke up about this and objected to it claiming he was a particularly easy calver so sometimes the paper scores arent great, that said the info on empire should be good

bogman_bass

You need to take calving figures for blues witha pinch of salt. if a blue bull is being used on pedigree cows then they are nearly all going to be sections so that will drive the calving figures up.

pakalasa

bogman_bass wrote: »

You need to take calving figures for blues witha pinch of salt. if a blue bull is being used on pedigree cows then they are nearly all going to be sections so that will drive the calving figures up.

Empire is in the bottom 1% of the BB breed, so that's when compared to other BB bulls. ICBF do take into account the breed of the cow anyhow.

vanderbadger wrote: »

was talking to a blue breeder, I asked about empire, like yourself i have often wondered why he is so popular considering he is such a hard calver on paper at least.. breeder told me he considered empire an easy calver especially on commercial cows..remember i was at a teagasc beef thing one night and there was a breeder showing off some of his limousin stock, anyway his bull showed up as a particularly hard calver on icbf, the breeder spoke up about this and objected to it claiming he was a particularly easy calver so sometimes the paper scores arent great, that said the info on empire should be good

In fairness, they would say that, wouldn't they.

I just think that this year, in particular, alot of guys are going out buying BB bulls chasing the €1000 weanlings. You can see that in the high price they are making. Could be looking at a lot of c-sections next year, and things are tight enough without the cost of these.

bt12

think parthenais x cows are the way 2 go myself, supposed 2 be a
bit hard to feed but breed very well and have plenty of milk
heard from a v good ai man to be carefull with universal docility not the best

5live

Isnt it true, guys, that an easy calving bull eg a charolais will get a lot of the cows that farmers are a bit worried about in terms of calving and will end up with a higher calving difficulty on paper but not in reality. Just something to keep in mind as i found out with easy calving friesians

pakalasa

5live wrote: »

Isnt it true, guys, that an easy calving bull eg a charolais will get a lot of the cows that farmers are a bit worried about in terms of calving and will end up with a higher calving difficulty on paper but not in reality. Just something to keep in mind as i found out with easy calving friesians

Ya, that's true alright.
I've seen that with new bulls in AI where their calving history wouldnt be known. The bull would be used as normal on say mature cows. It would show up as very easy calving and then the folowing year the AI company would advertise it as "easy calving".
The bull would get used a lot on hard calving cows (narrow hips). You would see then the folowing year then the calving difficulty of the bull would have climbed a few % points.

Pat the lad

Leg Wax - was it AI PART you used - which one??? or a Part stock bull??? what was calving like??? HAve you used SNX or CHAP??? Was hoping to go down a similar route you are -well initally on a sample of all the cow types I have i.e. Partenaise on my 3/4 Limo's - nearly all red, handfull of pure one's now too, and simmental cows, also have a handful of blondes & BBXLim Cows also. Just to see what X breeding gives the best results.
I think the PART are a very stylish animal - great lenght & muscle.Have to say I liked what I saw from part at the Ploughing too - was very dissappointed with the Limo display though?????? Would be a big limo fan up to lately, but have used BB alot in the last few years - Will prob now only use Limos for replacements - and go BB & Part - if happy with results??? Simmentals had a great display of young Bulls at the ploughing - maybe thats a route to explore too??? There making good money as weanlings too!!!

Pakalasa - Thanks for the Info on calving figures. What sort of % calving figure would you be comfortable using??? - I know the cows & her diet depends alot on this too!!!I would of thought that for the ICBF figures- to be really helpful to farmers, that cross breeding figures have/should be collected??? Surely thats what 95% of the AI bulls are used on??? Would it not make sence to give a select group of farmers (our farmers could apply) some straws (free or even discounted:D) or sponsor the rearing of the calf i.e Pay/part pay for X amount of meal etc if the wanted to push calf for weights etc. Would this not make sence??? it would surely be cheaper than the Grange/DerryPartick experiment???? what do you think

leg wax

the calfs were under the cows when i bought them but they were out of a stock bull. i have 4 sonnets myself and they were born with no trouble and would think in my view he is easy on cows smaller calfs than byu and ovo.

snowman707

any info on crossing with dairy herds? BR fr or MO

bogman_bass

I see the parthenaise socitey is on facebook now

kboc

and in todays journal, regarding a buying trip to france

vanderbadger

kboc wrote: »

and in todays journal, regarding a buying trip to france

a group of them go to France every year I think in sept

Pat the lad

Thanks Leg Wax. What are the SNX calves like on the ground???? are they as good for thriving/gain weight as the other big breeds i.e BB, Lim, Sim??? especially for 10-12 months weanling market ??? Are your SNX calves out of Limo cows??
Also are the Part cows/hefiers good mothers. are they hard to keep condition on etc.
I think I'll be buying a few in calf hefiers this winter???Sorry for all the questions

leg wax

Pat the lad wrote: »

Thanks Leg Wax. What are the SNX calves like on the ground???? are they as good for thriving/gain weight as the other big breeds i.e BB, Lim, Sim??? especially for 10-12 months weanling market ??? Are your SNX calves out of Limo cows??
Also are the Part cows/hefiers good mothers. are they hard to keep condition on etc.
I think I'll be buying a few in calf hefiers this winter???Sorry for all the questions

the calves that i have on the ground are out of any cow that was not producing a calf good enough for the export market, hopeing that her female part calf will then go on to produce the goods.the calves are not export types out of these cows,but growth is the best of all the other breeds including the blondes. i have no part mothers yet next july the heifers will start to calve to the blue bull.now off to kilarney to play in the ladbrokes poker festival and if i win i will want to know where you are going to get those incalf heifers i will be a customer

bogman_bass

One of the lads in work told me today that only 3 weanlings made over 1000 at carnaross last week and one of them was a parthenaise

tismesoitis

ordered a bunch of LRY today from Bova yer man sez calves on the ground are class.anyone any experience of this bull? thinkin of gettin some UNI too did'nt like to hear that docility could b an issue. any recomendations on another part bull to use,want to use at least 2 to give them a fair try.

Pat the lad

Yeah like you - Tismesoitis, I'd like to heard any reports of LRY - heard good things too - although he doesn't look anything out of the norm in the brochure???? Was thing of using SNX myself on a few cows this time around - Have you used him???

Tora Bora

Gave a neighbour a hand shifting a bunch of cows and calves a few days ago. Mainly lix x cows, 2 BB x cows and one Parthenais X cow. Running with Lim bull.
Pick of the calves was the one out of the Parthenaise X cow. Absolutely cracking heifer calf.
I asked him to let me know when he is selling it

tismesoitis

Pat the lad wrote: »

Yeah like you - Tismesoitis, I'd like to heard any reports of LRY - heard good things too - although he doesn't look anything out of the norm in the brochure???? Was thing of using SNX myself on a few cows this time around - Have you used him???

yeh Pat bull looks nothing to look at in d picture yer man from Bova said that to me. SNX is that sansonnet?? when i saw the price of €25 i passed way too expensive for use on commercial cows...he looks class though! this is our first year to use parts so it'l be interesting!!

jfh

hi pat, sounds like you've a nice herd there,
they certainly look good, i've seen a few at the shows. scarce though, never see them for sale, like to try out one myself

Pat the lad

Yeah Tismesoitis, SNX is Sansonnet's alright. yeah expensive alright - was going to try one or two straws just to see what his calves would be like in comparsion with BB & Lim's. Have a few good 3/4 Limos and Blonde X cows - would be interesting to see what calves he'd bring???
I am just exploring the parthenaise bred at at the moment - looking for something different/better??. I think there a lovely animal - very stylish with lovely length, shape and muscle. I was thinking of buying a few(one or two) in calf heifers (pure breeds) and maybe breeding my own replacements from these - and maybe my own Parthenaise stock bull - therefore my interest in SNX!!!!!! as I think he and Parthenaise breed would cross well with my Limos,Blondes and a few BB X's cows??? any thoughts

tismesoitis

Pat the lad wrote: »

Yeah Tismesoitis, SNX is Sansonnet's alright. yeah expensive alright - was going to try one or two straws just to see what his calves would be like in comparsion with BB & Lim's. Have a few good 3/4 Limos and Blonde X cows - would be interesting to see what calves he'd bring???
I am just exploring the parthenaise bred at at the moment - looking for something different/better??. I think there a lovely animal - very stylish with lovely length, shape and muscle. I was thinking of buying a few(one or two) in calf heifers (pure breeds) and maybe breeding my own replacements from these - and maybe my own Parthenaise stock bull - therefore my interest in SNX!!!!!! as I think he and Parthenaise breed would cross well with my Limos,Blondes and a few BB X's cows??? any thoughts

maybe ur right pat i fully agree about part females maybe being a great suckler dam but imo blue is by far the best terminal sire out there and i'm thinkin blue on part cows could b a step in the right direction

UPCS

we have been working with the parthenaise for the last 15 years and they have done us very well, we would breed for beef we kill the bulls at 14 and a half months, we had one which was a bf x lim x par and he died a 505kg carcass an E3 grade. They are very docile and they are easy calving, you can go onto www.unitedparthenaise.co.uk and you can get info there and bulls which are for sale are on there to and the names of breeders etc...

Pat the lad

Thanks JFH - yeah herds not too bad - work in progress. Culled heavily from fathers time - he had alot of Fres X cows with Ch or Lim bulls. They were great for milk, but that brought its own problems too i.e. too much milk - Mastisis, tits too big for calves etc. I have taken over the farm in the last few years - changed tac - More beef type cows via investing In AI (for replacements) & purchasing 3/4 pure bred Limos/Sim/Blonde and a handfull of pure one's aswell. They have less milk - but I find enough for their calf. If I'm right or wrong time will tell. But diff get far better stock & prices:D

Pat the lad

Hi UPCS, Thanks for the link. Lovely cattle. It would be great if the breeders had a link to their own web page to shown off their stock (maybe the do)

Pat the lad

Going to a few herds over the next few days - looking for a few pedigree in calf cows or might settle for a few weanling heifiers. Parthenaise society have been very helpful. Looking forward to it and hopefully can get a few quality animals

Muckit

Bought 2 weanling 'limousin' bulls at the mart recently.

One has dark circles around his eyes, would he have a strain of partenaise in him??

Will be interesting to see which on does better...:rolleyes:

vanderbadger

Muckit wrote: »

Bought 2 weanling 'limousin' bulls at the mart recently.

One has dark circles around his eyes, would he have a strain of partenaise in him??

Will be interesting to see which on does better...:rolleyes:

he might just have been out partying the night before the mart

LostCovey

Pat the lad wrote: »

Has anyone use SNX - some looking bull -

Hi Pat the lad,

A couple of people including yourself have remarked that SNX is a classy looking bull.

There is a photo of him here http://www.parthenaise.ie/snx.html. Is he not quite freakish-looking? He looks like a steroid-enhanced weightlifter!? Is this where beef breeding is going in this country?

I am not quibbling with the general gist of the thread, that there is a premium from sale of progeny from this breed, but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or in the beholder's mart cheque). I think that bul is plug-ugly. I freely admit I know nothing about the breed - what is their calving difficulty - in the BB category?

I also wondered how a productive and highly saleable (apparently) breed like this remained such a well kept secret in 40 years of importing French beef breeds to Ireland.

LostCovey

mob555

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi Pat the lad,

A couple of people including yourself have remarked that SNX is a classy looking bull.

There is a photo of him here http://www.parthenaise.ie/snx.html. Is he not quite freakish-looking? He looks like a steroid-enhanced weightlifter!? Is this where beef breeding is going in this country?

I am not quibbling with the general gist of the thread, that there is a premium from sale of progeny from this breed, but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or in the beholder's mart cheque). I think that bul is plug-ugly. I freely admit I know nothing about the breed - what is their calving difficulty - in the BB category?

I also wondered how a productive and highly saleable (apparently) breed like this remained such a well kept secret in 40 years of importing French beef breeds to Ireland.

LostCovey

+1

pakalasa

Was thinking the same myself.
I notice even with the BB's, Irish farmers and AI companies still tend to go for the more balanced looking bulls. Even the likes of Empire (EZN) produce nice looking cattle that wouln't look out of place in a mart in the west of Ireland.

Pat the lad

Hi LostCovey.

I don't think SNX bull is a ulgy bull to be honest. What drew my attention to him was his length, if anything he is more proportioned than some heavy muscled bulls i.e. he has the size & length to carry the muscle. I think some of the BB bulls are far more extreme looking. As for calving difficulty - the breed itself is much the same as the limousin's. I think SNX is around 10.2% within the breed for calving difficulty, according to ICBF figures, with EZN for instance is around 33% - I have never used him (yet) so I cant comment on him, but I had 3 cows calving on their own this week to BB blues - ELZ,SFL & ETB - so just because a bull is heavy muscled, doen't mean hios going to be a hard calver!!!!! If using these breeds i.e BB, Parthenaise or the likes means getting a better price on sale day - for more or less the same input costs, well count me in!!!!

I'm interested in Partenaise breed, because I think the have something the have something (maybe something different) to offer. I think & from what I have seen, I think they can improve the quality of stock I'm producing - I'll be crossing them with BB's from 2nd calving onwards- thus hopefully making a better return for me. I'm only getting into a few at the moment - maybe they will be no better than simmentals, Limo's or Blondes!!! but I'm going to give it a go - as you say they might not be for everyone but for me -Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Pat the lad

Muckit wrote: »

Bought 2 weanling 'limousin' bulls at the mart recently.

One has dark circles around his eyes, would he have a strain of partenaise in him??

Will be interesting to see which on does better...:rolleyes:

I think you might have a Part on your hands alright. Best of luck with your purchase's

leg wax

Pat the lad wrote: »

Hi LostCovey.

I don't think SNX bull is a ulgy bull to be honest. What drew my attention to him was his length, if anything he is more proportioned than some heavy muscled bulls i.e. he has the size & length to carry the muscle. I think some of the BB bulls are far more extreme looking. As for calving difficulty - the breed itself is much the same as the limousin's. I think SNX is around 10.2% within the breed for calving difficulty, according to ICBF figures, with EZN for instance is around 33% - I have never used him (yet) so I cant comment on him, but I had 3 cows calving on their own this week to BB blues - ELZ,SFL & ETB - so just because a bull is heavy muscled, doen't mean hios going to be a hard calver!!!!! If using these breeds i.e BB, Parthenaise or the likes means getting a better price on sale day - for more or less the same input costs, well count me in!!!
I'm interested in Partenaise breed, because I think the have something the have something (maybe something different) to offer. I think & from what I have seen, I think they can improve the quality of stock I'm producing - I'll be crossing them with BB's from 2nd calving onwards- thus hopefully making a better return for me. I'm only getting into a few at the moment - maybe they will be no better than simmentals, Limo's or Blondes!!! but I'm going to give it a go - as you say they might not be for everyone but for me -Nothing ventured nothing gained.

i think we are on the same wave length.they cost no more to produce and are not any harder to calve but you have to have the right cow for the job.

Pat the lad

I agree Leg wax.

I find them no harder to rear or calf than any other breed.If you have a hard calving, it's the bull that gets it in the neck - where's most of the difficulty is probably with a over fat cow or too narrow a cow.

Leg wax, Maybe You have answered this before - but do you or have you used EZN - Empire??? If so whats he like to calve???. Was looking at a BB bull after this guy - but I haven't used EZN (AI) yet - too dear for commerical use - I feeel, But if he was ok for calving - didn't concider buying a stock bull after him - Thanks

Muckit

Pat the lad wrote: »

I think you might have a Part on your hands alright. Best of luck with your purchase's

Thanks for the reply and good wishes;)

It wasn't until I had him bought and went to get him out of the pen that I got a right look at him:rolleyes:

Muckit

vanderbadger wrote: »

he might just have been out partying the night before the mart

You should have smelt the alcohol and the farts off him too

If I had lit a match I wouldn't have known which end was going to blow first!!

ceannfort

have used a fair bit of uni on ch cross cows with good sucess. however crossed him with a good limo and got a good calf but it took the colouring around the head and eyes which on mart day left him a long way behind similar ch calves as several fatteners were off the opinion there was jersey breeding in him.

leg wax

yes used 4 straws off him,and got 2 calfs, 1 bull out of a lim cow that never produced a top calf for export and still did not with him, and a heifer calf out of a blonde cow ,the calf came out backwards and was very muscley.the cow put out her calf bed straight away with the calf ,called the vet and he was in the yard in 15 mins and we put in the bed without much trouble but she died the next day,whos fault was it, mine, first cow ever lost due to bed been out.the calf was super after all that and went around the shed sucking any cow she could, she came second in weanling show in tullow .hes 25euro a straw thats the only reason i am not useing him again.

UPCS

You should try sirex, he is french tested he is high muscle and easy calving. And great results with him.

Bigbird1

well lads from reading your posts this is what i think,

I have a small suckler herd whitch i enjoy using 100% AI,i aim to produce as close to show calves as possibly certainly U/E grade.

Looking at the pic i seen in the dovea cat SNX looks like a truly outstanding bull in terms of muscle,im not a big fan on there colours myself but ugly or not he certainly has the muscle for the export market.

Empire is breeding very well but i think hes a bit on the tall side for the suckler cows as calves may come a bit plain off him

Both SNX and Empire are ment to be hard calved and i mean even on good mature cows

kboc

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi Pat the lad,

A couple of people including yourself have remarked that SNX is a classy looking bull.

There is a photo of him here http://www.parthenaise.ie/snx.html. Is he not quite freakish-looking? He looks like a steroid-enhanced weightlifter!? Is this where beef breeding is going in this country?

I am not quibbling with the general gist of the thread, that there is a premium from sale of progeny from this breed, but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or in the beholder's mart cheque). I think that bul is plug-ugly. I freely admit I know nothing about the breed - what is their calving difficulty - in the BB category?

I also wondered how a productive and highly saleable (apparently) breed like this remained such a well kept secret in 40 years of importing French beef breeds to Ireland.

LostCovey

You're right beauty is in the eye of the beholder! If i'm holding a handsome cheque from a quality animal, such as the parthenaie generally are, well my wife will think I'm well beautifull!

Not sure how you can compare the Parthenaise animals that has evolved naturally over hundreds and possibily thousand of years against Belgian Blues, which are a result of some scientific experiment from Belgium in the middle of the last century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Blue). You are not comparing like with like, if you are basing your spurious statement on "looks".

Calving indexes and other attributes for different breeds of cattle are fairly well cover by the hundreds of figures available from ICBF and other sources in the country of origin for each breed. These are object numbers and can be cut and sliced in each persons own subjective opinion, which is why we have tens of different breeds. Horses for courses!

leg wax

kboc please dont start him off :D

LostCovey

leg wax wrote: »

they cost no more to produce and are not any harder to calve but you have to have the right cow for the job.

A Parthenaise cow?

Seriously, are they hard calved (assuming someone might have 'wrong cows')?

LC

UPCS

well, we have 68 cows and 45 of them are pure, and the remaining are crossbred, they all calf themselves, maybe a couple needed slight assistance, we had 18 first calvers this year, all scanned back in calf monday past, and the man that scanned them was amazed that they were all back in calf, and they are 5 months gone. using the correct bulls for your cows will make the biggest difference. Parthenaise was the best decision we ever made!

pakalasa

UPCS wrote: »

Parthenaise was the best decision we ever made!

UPCS, where have I heard that before, no offense, but typical marketing spin...... just substitute any other breed for "Parthenaise" above.:D

UPCS

Are you speaking from experience? and by the way we have no females for sale, we enjoy the pease of mind, that our cows are calving down with no bother every 10 to 11 months!