Tenants always late with rent

ButtersSuki

I have an apartment which I rent out. I bought it at the height o the boom so make no money on it, in fact it costs me just over €500 a month to cover the mortgage repayments with the rent but I'm not complaining about that - I pretty much knew that would be the cost before I bought. It was a long-term play then and will have to be a very long-term play now but again, that's my tough and I'll live with that. The property itself is a very large 2-bed own-door entrance (from outside, no communal entrance), is top floor but I won't engage in estate agent speak and call it "penthouse" and, as it used to be the showhouse for the whole development is immaculately turned out. I am PRTB registered but they're not much help (to put it mildly).

The problem I have is my tennants are ALWAYS late with the rent. It's becoming a real drain. When I issue them with a 14day late notice they always pay it the day before the late notice is up, which again adds to my frustration. I've been incredibly reasonable with them but it's got to the stage where they're just taking the proverbial. Any advice on how to deal with them? Can I impose late fees?

Not that it's anything to do with them paying late but they are also the biggest moaners/complainers ever. There's always something wrong with the apartment for them. In an effort to appease them (and ensure prompt payment of rent) I've replaced 2 hoovers for them (both were fine) and various other things. I stopped short at replacing a lightbulb for them when they claimed the light fixture in the hallway/landing was broken (it was actually the bulb) so maybe that gives you an idea of how draining they are. I'm stuck lease wise with them for a while yet but just wish they'd go.

Cathmandooo

Would it not be best to set them up with a standing order? Do every step yourself, call to them with a form to fill out, get them to fill it out there and then and deliver it to the bank yourself?

ButtersSuki

Cathmandooo wrote: »

Would it not be best to set them up with a standing order? Do every step yourself, call to them with a form to fill out, get them to fill it out there and then and deliver it to the bank yourself?

Have suggested it, they won't do it. Can't force them at this stage...

OS119

if you've no 'get outs' in the lease - even ones you'd have be a bit creative to use - then you've little choice (assuming they evenualy pay their rent, aren't wrecking the place and don't upset the neighbours) other than to wait until the lease is up before refusing to offer another lease. grit your teeth and bear it.

6 month leases all the way...

triskellion

Not the best approach but can I suggest calling around on the day the rent is due?
Call them 5 days before and say you'll be there at say 7pm to collect the rent. Then confirm every day leading up to it that they'll be there with the rent.
If it's late then have your notice in hand and drop it instead and ask them when they'll have it. Daily reminders may be called for.
Not the nicest approach but it may get the point through and after a month or two suggest the standing order again.

ButtersSuki

Thanks folks, pretty much worn out with them. Have tried the calling (phone) only to be assured they'll have it yet when I call around in person there's no answer. I know they're just having a laugh at my expense but what can I do?

Re. creative get out clauses - don't worry, there'll be 50million of them in the next lease!

triskellion

When is the lease up?

ButtersSuki

triskellion wrote: »

When is the lease up?

Not until February!

crabfeet

Have the tenants notified you that they intend claiming a Part 4 tenancy?

D3PO

Unfortunatly sounds like these "tennants" know their rights and are milking it.

guess your just going to have to grin and bear it, but I would be calling around on the due date and supplying notice of intention to quit if its not there.

I guess your problem is if they arent answering the door you cannot server them the papers

triskellion

There's always registered letters. Signing for it may rattle the cage.

Ms. Chanandler Bong

Are they receiving rent allowance? Friend who was having bother with his tenant contacted SW to tell them he wasn't receiving his rent from his tenant who was claiming RA. He'd evicted her for a number of things in fairness but got them involved because she owed him 1500 between rent & damages. They told her they were stopping all RA payments until she repaid all she owed to him.
I know it's not the same situation with you as your tenants do eventually pay but...any port in a storm!

ButtersSuki

crabfeet wrote: »

Have the tenants notified you that they intend claiming a Part 4 tenancy?

Nope - heaven forbid! Hope to have them out before then. Hope....like someone else said here they seem to know the rules like the back of their hand so hopefully they won't claim it.

Ms. Chanandler Bong

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Nope - heaven forbid! Hope to have them out before then. Hope....like someone else said here they seem to know the rules like the back of their hand so hopefully they won't claim it.

From the Citizen's Information site:

Your landlord must always give you notice when asking you to leave. (Read more under 'Notice periods' and 'Notice of termination', below.) Landlords can ask tenants to leave without giving a reason during the first six months of a tenancy. Landlords can terminate a tenancy that has lasted between six months and four years (a Part 4 tenancy) only in the following circumstances:

After 3 and ½ years
If the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
If the property is no longer suited to the tenants’ needs (e.g. overcrowded)
If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member
If the landlord intends to sell the property
If the landlord intends to refurbish the property
If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (e.g. turn it into offices).
You should note that if your landlord evicts you for a specific reason and subsequently does not carry out the intention (e.g. to live there him/herself) you can report him/her to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). The PRTB will investigate your claim and take further action as appropriate.

Could you argue that the tenant is not complying with the obligations of the tenancy in that they do not pay their rent on the agreed date? You could tell them that you want to sell the house, stick it on Daft or My Home for a few weeks & then move on to the next tenant? Could you get a 'family member' to move in?
Just suggestions, please note the last 2 sentences of the quote...:o

Also, given that they say these are valid reason after 3 and a half years, they must be doubly valid after 7 months!

convert

catreyn wrote: »

From the Citizen's Information site:

Your landlord must always give you notice when asking you to leave. (Read more under 'Notice periods' and 'Notice of termination', below.) Landlords can ask tenants to leave without giving a reason during the first six months of a tenancy. Landlords can terminate a tenancy that has lasted between six months and four years (a Part 4 tenancy) only in the following circumstances:

After 3 and ½ years
If the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
If the property is no longer suited to the tenants’ needs (e.g. overcrowded)
If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member
If the landlord intends to sell the property
If the landlord intends to refurbish the property
If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (e.g. turn it into offices).
You should note that if your landlord evicts you for a specific reason and subsequently does not carry out the intention (e.g. to live there him/herself) you can report him/her to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). The PRTB will investigate your claim and take further action as appropriate.

Could you argue that the tenant is not complying with the obligations of the tenancy in that they do not pay their rent on the agreed date? You could tell them that you want to sell the house, stick it on Daft or My Home for a few weeks & then move on to the next tenant? Could you get a 'family member' to move in?
Just suggestions, please note the last 2 sentences of the quote...:o

Also, given that they say these are valid reason after 3 and a half years, they must be doubly valid after 7 months!

As far as I know the above applies to a Part 4 tenancy. The OP's tenants have signed a lease, so there is much less scope for them to implement some of the above suggestions.

OP, would it be worth your while seeking a solicitor's advice on this? Even if it's not this time, I'd definitely look at getting advice on drawing up your next lease which provides some 'get out of jail cards' for you as a landlord.

Ms. Chanandler Bong

convert wrote: »

As far as I know the above applies to a Part 4 tenancy. The OP's tenants have signed a lease, so there is much less scope for them to implement some of the above suggestions.

OP, would it be worth your while seeking a solicitor's advice on this? Even if it's not this time, I'd definitely look at getting advice on drawing up your next lease which provides some 'get out of jail cards' for you as a landlord.

But a Part 4 tenancy can be claimed once the tenants have been in a house for more than 6 months, whether they have a lease or not.
From the Citizen's Info site again:
Under Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, if you have been renting for at least 6 months and haven't been given a written notice of termination, you automatically acquire security of tenure in 4 year cycles. Any tenancy therefore, that has lasted more than six months is a Part 4 tenancy or a further Part 4 tenancy. After four years of your tenancy has passed, a new tenancy starts. The same four-year cycle can begin again leading to a further Part 4 tenancy.

When you have acquired a Part 4 tenancy your landlord can terminate your tenancy only in certain circumstances...If you want to leave during your Part 4 tenancy and you do not have a fixed-term agreement, you do not have to give a reason but you must give the correct period of notice in writing as required under the Act.

gossipgal08

Charge interest on late rent? If the LL gives them 24 hours notice he will be round to pick up the rent and they don't answer the door can he not let him self in?

Do monthly house inspections on rent day.

Distorted

Evict them if at all possible. You know they are going to stop paying rent completely near the end of the lease? That type always do. By that type, I mean those tenants who moan about minor non-issues, trying their damndest to make them into big ones, so as to justify, if necesssary, their failure or lateness in paying rent.

I have a fairly long thread on here about one of these tenants, who told me she was going to stop paying rent 4 days after the central heating broke, despite being given a date for the plumber to come round with the part necessary to fix it. She too claimed a burst bulb and tripped circuit was an "electrical fault". Fortunately she moved out when I told her I wasn't happy with her staying there free of charge, and I kept her deposit.

In your next lease, make sure you specify late payment charges and that failure to pay on time 3 times or more constitutes a reason for eviction. In the meantime, write to them even more constantly, do monthly house inspections (as above), write to them expressing your concern over the items constantly broken during your tenancy. Hopefully they will get fed up and do a moonlight flit sooner rather than later. Tenants like that cost you too much money and tbh you're often better having the property empty by the time you add it up and take tax into account too.

3DataModem

Just move back in.... temporarily.

Get some bank statements and other bills redirected to your "new" address so you have evidence. Get ESB and Gas back in your name and save the bills.

Then move back out.

This might take 6 months.. Or maybe a weekend. Wink.

Late paying tenants are trouble waiting to happen. Normal people pay rent, then food, then bills, then everything else. These are the other kind... they'll sting you on departure, guaranteed.

Good luck.

BostonB

Once they pay up and don't cause any other problems theres nothing you can about that. Being late can't be used as a reason to evict. I don't think so anyway.

You only option to regain it, is to do it up, sell it, or a family member live in it.

I agree with the others, eventually there will be problems with people who need to be hounded for the rent.

ButtersSuki

Thanks to all who replied for your suggestions. Just going to have to touch out a few more months and see how I get on.

Traditional

a friend of mine had the same problem , non payers , bills unpaid etc , made life hell for her , asked me if i could help, the PRTB , its more for the tenant, which is good for both sides , unfortunately some people see it as an excuse not to pay and can lodge a case in against you for anything , anyway if you want help to sort out all your problems , there is a landlords Association up on the navan road you can ring them and they will give you the best advice Irish Property Owner's Association look them up on net .they have an annual fee , well worth it . no more messing and you will know your rights.