RTÉ DTT Reception difficulties in parts of the south east.

FRIENDO

Lost Forth yesterday evening for a while (Picture break-up), usually rock solid.
BB. do you think Forth signal will also be boosted in may?
Thanks

Gerry Wicklow

@BB
To be honest I'm in no hurry to spend any more money until everything is settled. I'm one of the many "early adaptors" who got burned with an MPEG2 Tv a few weeks before MPEG4 was announced.
The reliability of satellite is very tempting at the moment if a SaorSat dish etc is a cheap enough add-on to my setup.
The immortal phrase L.I.D. comes to mind:)

jabarrett35

As per Comreg instructions I had my UHF aerial repostioned towards Suir Valley earlier this week with good results ST 78% Q 100%. However today with a bit of lift I have St75% and Q 10% and no reception. I have however got Caradon Hill and Presely loud and clear!! Any advice gratefully excepted. What I don't understand is ch 52 is not co channeling with anything else or is it?

lucernarian

Quick question, is Dungarvan an option for you?

jabarrett35

I had my aerial directed towards Dungarvan before I had it repostioned. I only got St 44% and Q 100%, it was wiped out by any little lift. To be frank I think I'm just going to have to live with it.

lucernarian

Using something like a Group C/D Unix 52 for Suir Valley will help with combatting any lift conditions but I don't think anything will work for once and for all save for ComReg and Ofcom doing their bloody jobs properly in giving Mt. Leinster and RTÉ different frequencies.

FRIENDO

jabarrett35 wrote: »

As per Comreg instructions I had my UHF aerial repostioned towards Suir Valley earlier this week with good results ST 78% Q 100%. However today with a bit of lift I have St75% and Q 10% and no reception. I have however got Caradon Hill and Presely loud and clear!! Any advice gratefully excepted. What I don't understand is ch 52 is not co channeling with anything else or is it?

I had the same problem with Forth on 52V, I tried an anti-inteference combiner which did'nt make much of an improvement, I would still loose Forth in a lift. I disconnected the Wales freeview.

I intend to run a second cable from the Presely aerial to the main tv as I recieve Saorview through a Combi reciever on this tv and I miss Yesterday.

jabarrett35

What is co channeling with 52, it must be some transmitter in Wales? I often get signals on 54 and 56 which are Welsh so I assume they must be using 52 as well.

lucernarian

It's been speculated here on boards that the likes of Forth Mountain and Suir Valley will get a decent power boost in May. It could be worthwhile holding off on making changes until we can all see if there is a difference in signal strength!

Whatever the problem is with Ch. 52, it will be helped by either having a better aerial or else waiting (hopefully) for a boost in ERP during May.

jabarrett35

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

It's been speculated here on boards that the likes of Forth Mountain and Suir Valley will get a decent power boost in May. It could be worthwhile holding off on making changes until we can all see if there is a difference in signal strength!

Whatever the problem is with Ch. 52, it will be helped by either having a better aerial or else waiting (hopefully) for a boost in ERP during May.

Yes I think I'll leave it until May but the thoughts of getting another new aerial will not go down well. What I worry about is people who have know idea about DTT their aerials are all directed towards Mt Leinster. If they have to get new aerials and have them repostioned will be a nightmare.

marclt

It could be Haverfordwest causing some trouble on 52, or possibly Huntshaw Cross from North Devon. Been known to cross the St. George's channel back in the analogue days.

You might even see Carmel from Carmarthenshire popping up, although the band is getting increasingly congested in parts - especially the upper part of the band.

I sometimes get haverford west up here so it could be a culprit indeed.

Hold off on spending any extra money on aerials as mux 2 will be on shortly-perhaps as early as may 11th and it will eventually be carrying rte1 and two in hd.
I'd expect that to be ch39 from mt leinster so you should get that.
It's also expected to have a hd version of tv3 and tg4 whilst the film channel [lol] and the oireachtas channel and rte1+1 and any commercial channels that pay for access will be on the original mux.
I don't see a film or oireachtas channell anytime soon or channels paying for access on a saorview mux except maybe qvc or something.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

It's also expected to have a hd version of tv3

I thought you had that on yore Sagem combi since last year, it is called ITV1 HD :cool:

Everybody wait until the 'promised' major uplift in output strengths occurs in May on formal DTT launch day or thereafter. From then on all transmitters should be at their final strengths south of a line from Maghera to Kippure.

What date is formal DTT launch as distinct from soft launch, soft in the head launch by Eamon Ryan, marketing launch, advertising launch etc etc.

lucernarian

I thought Kippure had NI restrictions, Sponge Bob.

Sponge Bob

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I thought Kippure had NI restrictions, Sponge Bob.

I thought they were Welsh Related, (edit seemingly not they are somewhere else in UK but not NI)

http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/appendix7.3_coverageplotsmapsA3.pdf

marclt

But is that information trustworthy now?

Sponge Bob

marclt wrote: »

But is that information trustworthy now?

It has changed a bit. Some UK go live dates came forward a bit for example.

The Cush ...who else uploaded a list of the complete channel allocations acoss the entire network. Channel 39 is to be used in Kerry and Monaghan as well. It was intended for the abandoned Loughrea infill transmitter too.

Kippure specific. The SFN was abandoned around 2009 but is that abandonmentness permanent??

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69485069

Full DTT Channel Allocations in Ireland Linked Below . **Note that Band 3 is DAB and Band 4 is TV . Note further that this allocation was for the original 53 tranmitter plan and that at least 4 have been dropped ( Loughrea Westport Navan Drogheda) and 1 or 2 moved. (Galway City to Tonabrocky for one ) **

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57690609#post57690609

UK Restrictions ( as we call them) are explained from a UK point of view and in re Band 3 here. Actioning that plan requires us to achieve ASO.

Machinehead

For a while before the 1 o'clock news the RTE ONE dog had changed to RTE ONE+1. Could we see the launch of the +1 channel @ 7pm today?

Machinehead

Machinehead wrote: »

For a while before the 1 o'clock news the RTE ONE dog had changed to RTE ONE+1. Could we see the launch of the +1 channel @ 7pm today?

Apologies double post, wrong thread.

Verso

Whilst going through channels on my Ttechnomate I find that it is showing a Quality Signal of 92% for Channel 39 from Mt. Leinster.

However on carrying out a programme search the Technomate cannot find any RTE stations broadcasting on this channel.

If the Technomate is correct it would seem that Mt. Leinster is broadcasting on 39 without any of it's stations.

Does anybody know what is going on?

Gerry Wicklow

CH 39 is the second mux from Mt Leinster. Like all other 2nd muxes it has no channels at present. BTW ch24 from Arklow is also on but empty.

Billyie

Hello....guys can you help with a worrying query,,,,i am in the county of waterford..and have tried invain to get a signal for my parents out in the country side....near kilmacthomas.....(but not in the village) I have been informed that I should use mt leinster..but i read the problems here for the south east...especially in arklow...wexford areas..but is my thinking correct that if they cannot power up the signal for their output cos of upsetting Wales....then its no wonder it is also effecting my chances to get any signal in the country side in county Waterford...?
and if as you say they could use anohter free and available ch, right now..,,,,then they could increase the output power...and then as already informed..i might get a signal from there..????

What are the chances now of the powers that be doing something about it...?

And i have tried all around the surrounding directions..hoping to get signal from outlying transmitters..but nothing....anyone got any ideas..maybe upgrades have taken place..its atleast 3 months since i did my tests...??

Thanks for any help....with aerial types or directions from co waterford i should try..Thanks.,.Billyie

lucernarian

Kilmacthomas is one of the larger locations I've come across that seems to have very difficult Saorview reception in Ireland. Unfortunately, you may be one of the 2% who won't receive it. The Dungarvan site seems to cover the area best but Suir Valley may work. Mt. Leinster where TV3 reception would come from is not at full power until next year and you may have more joy then.

One of the outlying sites that could work, Suir Valley, is polarised vertically while Mt. Leinster and Dungarvan are horizontally polarised. Make sure you adjust the aerial right if you do try for all three sites as an aerial will pick up little if it's turned the wrong way.

Also and quite unfortunately too, most of the existing aerials used for Mt. Leinster will not work well for Saorview from there in another example of bad planning on ComReg's part. If you have a UHF grid aerial then it could be used for any of the three sites but an ordinary Group A aerial used for analogue TV3 and TG4 won't work well for any of the three. Getting a wideband or grid aerial will give you a much better chance if you only have a red-tipped contract Group A aerial.

Peter Rhea

Billyie wrote: »

. . .aerial types or directions from co waterford i should try

Have you looked at the coverage checker yet?

Billyie

H..wow..really quick replies.....Thanks a million..its great to get some advice and get me back on track to try your ideas....Thanks.

Just another question..loosely related here...
If i have a saorview digital ready tele....and I plug my co ax directly into the tele from the uhf aerial... if i want to record the digital channel i am watching (this is just as an example here) is it sily to use scart out of tv to scart into dvd recorder... would this actually work to record that channel....?? (Although i do se this as strange)..so if strange.... how does someone record a channel when they have a saorview ready tele...??? (no need for a saorview box...?)

Thanks..and btw i wil try suir valley..and Dungarvan for my saorview digital channels..thanks again,... Billyie

lucernarian

It may be possible but only if the DVD recorder accepts scart inputs and not just an aerial input and only if the TV uses the video out pin on the scart cable. Many TVs do this.

If the DVD recorder only has the yellow, red and white socket input then it may be possible but it would involve cutting the end off the scart lead and wiring it up to three RCA plugs I think!

Give it a try sure, see if the DVD recorder can record the "no signal" message or the main menu of the TV;)

Sysmod

After being told by my TV supplier in Gorey that I would have to buy a Saorsat receiver, I had written to RTE Transmission Network to complain.

(BTW I also copied various TDs. John Browne and Michael D'Arcy replied, I guess the others didn't need to :-) )

RTE replied suggesting Forth Mountain and urging a degree of caution when reading internet postings - I had given them a link to this thread.


When Myles Redmond called to the house, he was pessimistic about getting any RTE signal because of the dominant Welsh signal (we use a UHF attic aerial) but after trying some alternatives, he found that a C/D aerial on the mast top plus an amplifier picked up what it needed from Forth Mountain. He had previously been unable to receive that north of Kilmuckridge, so he attributes that to our 500ft elevation on Tara Hill.

We now have 120 DTT stations, including TV3 & TG4 which we have not seen for years.

So, no need for Saorsat (too easy to mistype Saorstat, showing my years..)

dowtchaboy

Sysmod wrote: »

So, no need for Saorsat (too easy to mistype Saorstat, showing my years..)

:)

Interesting reaction of RTE though - does this imply that in some cases folk in Wexford will have to go the Saorsat route to get Irish stations because RTENL are being too pig-headed to pick a sensible frequency for Mt Leinster??

dowtchaboy

dowtchaboy wrote: »

:)

Interesting reaction of RTE though - does this imply that in some cases folk in Wexford will have to go the Saorsat route to get Irish stations because RTENL are being too pig-headed to pick a sensible frequency for Mt Leinster??

Well it does mean that people cant use the older rooftop ariels pointing at preslie will have to be moved or replaced and thats an added cost for not using different frequencies.

As the man said (not exact wording) from comreg in a phone chat i had a while back: the priority is to provide saorview - the freeview service is not our concern. (I cant remember the exact quote so apologies but ill have a look for my notes ad ill update it)

so they dont care if a person wants to recieve both or if people cant afford to get someone to move their ariel and point it towards mount leinster or replace their welsh pointing antenna. For areas that are very suseptible to the freeview signal - an indoor ariel wont be much help either since co-channel interferrence is still a problem (my own experience).

rte are just thinking about rte and not about us - the consumer

I wonder if there have been any recent problems in prembrookshire in wales with saorview interferring with freeview?

marclt

Trouble with this one, is, that if they were thinking of the RTE signal then they would have chosen a clear frequency for their main mux!

That makes sense doesn't it? The problem on the Welsh side, is that as it a commercial mux allocation the signal isn't protected in the same way and commercial multiplexes have reduced coverage patterns.

It's just a cock up really, pure and simple.

Joe Public in spill over areas won't want to give up free UK channels when they start picking up saorview boxes but they will start getting annoyed that their RTE channels are subject to break up and black screens.

FRIENDO

@Sysmod, Great work I would be intrested to see how the C/D aerial for Forth works when Preseli (freeview) comes in very strong signal in certain weather condition.
With my own experience is I loose Forth when combined in some weather condition.

Thanks

Peter Rhea

Channel 52 is used by Redruth & Huntshaw Cross txs in SW England, they probably come in to your area from time to time.

lucernarian

For the sake of posterity, the people who fundamentally are to blame for this are those in ComReg and the DCENR who are responsible for spectrum management and for the ridiculous attempt at frequency planning that took place at RRC-06.

Some of the DCENR's explanations for what it calls policy: DCENR Spectrum policy and Digital Dividend

More DCENR Spectrum Policy guff

The broadcasting policy dept and the business and technology section of the dept. of communications are two prime candidates for some tough questions, seeing as they collectively waffle and equivocate over whether the EU decides spectrum usage policy, ComReg are allowed to decide the nuts and bolts of it or if those various organs within DCENR are the ones who call the shots.

The following link shows some of those who manage radio spectrum in Ireland, within the Market Framework section in ComReg: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/File/MarketFramework.png

Here's an email address for that body: marketframeworkconsult@comreg.ie

I invite all to ask ComReg for their thoughts on those people who will experience reception difficulties of at least one RTE multiplex because of ineptitude with UHF allocations for Mt. Leinster or their thoughts on the news story from Wales where people experienced interference with their (post-DSO) commercial TV multiplex, caused by a (pre-DSO) multiplex from Mt. Leinster. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/07/08/disappearing-channels-leave-viewers-fed-up-91466-26808646/

The planned mast replacement with an increase in height of some sort won't exactly prevent co-channel interference at DSO.

To_be_confirmed

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

For the sake of posterity, the people who fundamentally are to blame for this are those in ComReg and the DCENR who are responsible for spectrum management and for the ridiculous attempt at frequency planning that took place at RRC-06.

Some of the DCENR's explanations for what it calls policy: DCENR Spectrum policy and Digital Dividend

More DCENR Spectrum Policy guff

The broadcasting policy dept and the business and technology section of the dept. of communications are two prime candidates for some tough questions, seeing as they collectively waffle and equivocate over whether the EU decides spectrum usage policy, ComReg are allowed to decide the nuts and bolts of it or if those various organs within DCENR are the ones who call the shots.

The following link shows some of those who manage radio spectrum in Ireland, within the Market Framework section in ComReg: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/File/MarketFramework.png

Here's an email address for that body: marketframeworkconsult@comreg.ie

I invite all to ask ComReg for their thoughts on those people who will experience reception difficulties of at least one RTE multiplex because of ineptitude with UHF allocations for Mt. Leinster or their thoughts on the news story from Wales where people experienced interference with their (post-DSO) commercial TV multiplex, caused by a (pre-DSO) multiplex from Mt. Leinster. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/07/08/disappearing-channels-leave-viewers-fed-up-91466-26808646/

The planned mast replacement with an increase in height of some sort won't exactly prevent co-channel interference at DSO.

I rang someone in comreg about this ages ago and they stated that they were asked for this frequency by rte nl and they obliged - i raised all the points here and thier concern is only about ireland and not the added effect it will have on wales not to mention the added cost it will be to anyone using a preslie pointed ariel which have been in use across the south eastern sea board and they stated that ch45 is the most suitable to the terrain that mount leinster serves

its a joke though.....they expect people to fork out extra cash just to continue recieving rte when the old ariels would work perfectly for the most part if they had chosen a different frequency and they dont care that they might be causing co-channel interferrence across the water either

as for rte nl - ive been waiting 3 months to hear back from them - it all smells of epic fail

lucernarian

I believe none of the 1100 odd broadcasting sites in the UK will involve a change of aerial group for the three PSB muxes, never mind the existing 60 or so main transmitter sites. Ireland has only 10 to 13 main transmission sites (unclear classification of Woodcock Hill, Dungarvan and Kilduff) with two PSB muxes and we couldn't even manage to keep all of those muxes within their established aerial groups.

The Cush

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I believe none of the 1100 odd broadcasting sites in the UK will involve a change of aerial group for the three PSB muxes, never mind the existing 60 or so main transmitter sites.

Not correct, just had a quick look through a few of the Ofcom digital switchover transmission details documents and in some cases the PSB muxes are out of group with the analogue channels e.g. Ballintoy (Limavady relay) moves from B to C/D.

lucernarian

Indeed, and I even remember now that Lawhec had pointed Ballintoy out in some previous thread or other. The earlier point I made is demonstrated well enough by the UK main sites alone, compared to Mt. Leinster.

The Cush

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Indeed, and I even remember now that Lawhec had pointed Ballintoy out in some previous thread or other. The earlier point I made is demonstrated well enough by the UK main sites alone, compared to Mt. Leinster.

I see the Sandy Heath (Anglia region) main transmitter (PSB muxes 180Kw) moves from Gp A to Gp W.

Sam Russell

All the VHF transmissions require a new aerial, but presumably TV3 and TG4 are the guiding light here. 3Rock requires a change from A to W for reception of TG4 and DTT but the analogue then disappears and a C/D will do after ASO.

There are lots of changes, and anyway, with the drop in number of transmitters, and the increase in coverage with DTT transmitters, aerial realignment is necessary. Old aerials need to be checked out at the very least.

lucernarian

The Cush wrote: »

I see the Sandy Heath (Anglia region) main transmitter (PSB muxes 180Kw) moves from Gp A to Gp W.

I specifically mentioned the PSB muxes remaining in the analogue aerial group after DSO, which they do in the case of Sandy Heath. Reception of the COM multiplexes seem to be an added bonus of DSO in the UK and there's a number of places which will have out of group COM multiplexes.

In the case of Mt. Leinster - the multiplexes which will be a direct replacement of the analogue channels, the PSB muxes, will both be outside existing Group A aerials and worse again are at higher broadcasting channels than the existing group.

Three Rock reception has used wideband aerials for a number of years at least. And Three Rock has the added benefit of a significant increase in ERP with digital TV. I've seen no confirmed final details for Mt. Leinster but I'm pretty sure it's not cleared to broadcast at a higher ERP than the existing analogue UHF channels.

The Cush

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I specifically mentioned the PSB muxes remaining in the analogue aerial group after DSO, which they do in the case of Sandy Heath. Reception of the COM multiplexes seem to be an added bonus of DSO in the UK and there's a number of places which will have out of group COM multiplexes. It seems in the case of the

You're correct of course. I missed that, I'll blame it on the late hour

deckstunt

This info is a couple of weeks old but I'll share it anyway. A relative of mine got a new Saorview TV but the reception was mixed. 80%-90% of the time it was fine other times it would break up and be unwatchable. My relation lives in north county Kilkenny and has a clear line of sight of Mt Leinster.

I emailed RTE networks and was told that for the past couple of weeks [a few weeks ago] the Mount Leinster Transmitter was on reduced power for a major mast replacement project. And that it [was] on reduced power for periods between now and the end of the Summer.

Today at my relatives house I looked at Mt Leinster through binoculars and there are now two (big, main) masts on the peak (where before there was only one).

Reception seems to have improved too.

deckstunt

deckstunt wrote: »

Reception seems to have improved too.

Ok, I spoke too soon. Yesterday in the rain the picture was breaking up a lot. Thankfully for the All Ireland throw-in the rain had passed off and the picture was fine. But clearly there is still a reception problem (interestingly the satellite TV reception didn't break up at all in the same rain, and I thought satellite reception was much more prone to rain interference due to signal's GHz wave length)

It may be due to the fact Mt Leinster is one of the few transmitters where the analogue antenna group has changed for the new digital transmissions. (And the tv antenna needs replacing? Not sure if the antenna is [the old analogue] Group A or a wideband.)

Or it may be due to weak signal from Mt Leinster due to maintenance?

Peter Rhea

deckstunt wrote: »

But clearly there is still a reception problem (interestingly the satellite TV reception didn't break up at all in the same rain, and I thought satellite reception was much more prone to rain interference due to signal's GHz wave length)

Is the aerial in the attic? A wet roof won't do your signal any favours or maybe there are trees in the signal path, UHF doesn't seem to like wet leaves.

deckstunt

No, its outside on the chimney of a 2 story house. Clear line-of-sight of the transmitter

Peter Rhea

I think even the aerial getting wet can cause detuning problems. I remember reading something on here about varnishing aerials to stop water buildup.

The fact that the problem clears quickly would seem to rule out water getting into the connections or cable.

deckstunt

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I think even the aerial getting wet can cause detuning problems. I remember reading something on here about varnishing aerials to stop water buildup.

Wow, I never heard that before :eek:. Given Ireland's climate that dosen't bode well.:(

I do need to check the current antenna though. If it s a Group A narrow band that won't help. Digital from Mt Leinster is Group B.

Thanks

Peter Rhea

deckstunt wrote: »

Wow, I never heard that before :eek:. Given Ireland's climate that dosen't bode well.

This is watty's take on it, posted about a year ago; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67976976&postcount=8

lucernarian

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I think even the aerial getting wet can cause detuning problems. I remember reading something on here about varnishing aerials to stop water buildup.

The fact that the problem clears quickly would seem to rule out water getting into the connections or cable.

I honestly have never experienced any of this, I've never seen rain affect a working outdoor aerial affect reception any more than if it was dry. I've only ever seen wet trees in the direction of the transmitter being an issue. Though there will be situations especially with Saorview where that 1 or 2dB loss will make a massive difference.

deckstunt

Peter Rhea wrote: »

This is watty's take on it, posted about a year ago; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67976976&postcount=8

Very interesting. Thanks for that link. I never heard that rain actually lodging on the antenna elements could affect reception before, but Watty does know his stuff.

I think there may be a clue to my issue where lawhec says that rain in the atmosphere shouldn't affect the reception unless your receiving distant, fringe signals. I'm guessing that the wrong narrow band antenna [old analogue group A] may give a similar fringe signal effect.

Thanks Peter.