Contador Suspended

ROK ON

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Clenbuterol and hyroid hormone T3 [Triiodothyronine] to lose weight eh... wonder where I can get me some of that -it'd guarantee a good showing in next years club league if I dropped a few stone...

I've put on a half a stone in three weeks. Now I have been eating a lot of beef. I probably should season my steaks with this clenbuterol stuff.

funnights74

Saw this on the BBC site and it reflects the thoughts i've had for a long time, professional sports is riddled with drugs cheating but it seems to me only a handful of sports attempt to do anything about it.


"I don't see other sports doing as much as cycling. I would like to see somebody compare the number of tests that cycling does with other sports.
"Let's look at football, the most popular sport. I'd love them to submit themselves to the tests and surprise visits we agree to. I'd like to see football bring in biological passports and whereabouts-style testing."

Mario Cippollini

Quigs Snr

Shame on Cipo for that crap he was spouting today. I'd like to think that he is patriotically defending the image of cycling rather than the omerta, but considering the era he came from, I don't think so.

On the other hand if that Clen stuff can take this belly off me, inject it straight into my veins, robfowl with his medical background should be able to hook us up - group buy anyone ? - it really is remarkable what 4 weeks of holidays/illness can do. I think I will have to get something to kill my appetite for junk food or a shotgun for the missus to guard the cookie jar with.

Diarmuid

Good old Mario. I'm sure he never touched the stuff. :rolleyes: STFU Cippollini

Hermy

niceonetom wrote: »

I don't think "awe" implies admiration - it certainly doesn't in this case. Watching someone do something very difficult very well can inspire awe whether you approve of the ethics of what they're doing or not.

I only ever feel sickened no matter what lengths cheats go to to evade the testers.

RobFowl

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Shame on Cipo for that crap he was spouting today. I'd like to think that he is patriotically defending the image of cycling rather than the omerta, but considering the era he came from, I don't think so.

On the other hand if that Clen stuff can take this belly off me, inject it straight into my veins, robfowl with his medical background should be able to hook us up - group buy anyone ? - it really is remarkable what 4 weeks of holidays/illness can do. I think I will have to get something to kill my appetite for junk food or a shotgun for the missus to guard the cookie jar with.

Cipo has a point re football and some of the other sports like tennis. Their testing procedures are quite frankly embarrassing. If Rio Ferdinand was a cyclist he'd have got a 2-4 year ban instead of the 6 month slap on the wrist he got. And no one ever refers to him as a drug cheat.

That said the old attitude of we're the most tested blah,blah simply doesn't cut it any more and I wish they'd stop saying it.

PS if I was so inclined I could access the whole range of pharmaceutical aids with relative ease. I suspect that there are doctors in this country who do.........

Inquitus

RobFowl wrote: »

Cipo has a point re football and some of the other sports like tennis. Their testing procedures are quite frankly embarrassing. If Rio Ferdinand was a cyclist he'd have got a 2-4 year ban instead of the 6 month slap on the wrist he got. And no one ever refers to him as a drug cheat.

That said the old attitude of we're the most tested blah,blah simply doesn't cut it any more and I wish they'd stop saying it.

PS if I was so inclined I could access the whole range of pharmaceutical aids with relative ease. I suspect that there are doctors in this country who do.........

Skill sports, such as football. tennis and rugby, only offer very marginal benefits to drug cheats. Among footballers the most likely drug test fails are from recreational drug use rather than performance enhancing drug use, the same is true for rugby. I don't think it's really fair to compare football to cycling in this regard, when a cyclist can boost performance 20% or more if they eat the right beef

Junior

RobFowl wrote: »

PS if I was so inclined I could access the whole range of pharmaceutical aids with relative ease. I suspect that there are doctors in this country who do.........

PM Sent with questions about bulk ordering

TinyExplosions

RobFowl wrote: »

PS if I was so inclined I could access the whole range of pharmaceutical aids with relative ease. I suspect that there are doctors in this country who do.........

I'm with junior... get us some clen and teach us how to use it

Inquitus wrote: »

Skill sports, such as football. tennis and rugby, only offer very marginal benefits to drug cheats. Among footballers the most likely drug test fails are from recreational drug use rather than performance enhancing drug use, the same is true for rugby. I don't think it's really fair to compare football to cycling in this regard, when a cyclist can boost performance 20% or more if they eat the right beef

I don't agree with that at all. Yes, skill is part of the sport, but if you can run faster/be stronger/bigger it'll give you an advantage.

Look at how creatine use bloomed in rugby -yes it's legal, but it was a way to bulk up -if you can get better/quicker results with steroids, you can bet someone will try it.

I think it's perfectly fair to compare football to cycling (or any other sport) that has a list of banned substances. Not to mention the dreaded Operation Puerto, there were many suspected footballers on it.

stevie_b

Inquitus wrote: »

Skill sports, such as football. tennis and rugby, only offer very marginal benefits to drug cheats. Among footballers the most likely drug test fails are from recreational drug use rather than performance enhancing drug use, the same is true for rugby. I don't think it's really fair to compare football to cycling in this regard, when a cyclist can boost performance 20% or more if they eat the right beef

so being leaner, stronger etc and increasing endurance is not hugely beneficial in these sports?..... professional sport is filthy.

wersal gummage

Quigs Snr wrote: »

I think I will have to get something to kill my appetite for junk food or a shotgun for the missus to guard the cookie jar with.

a lad in work keeps a photo of himself with a bit of a gut stuck to the fridge !! - he swears by it. thankfully i'm a bit of a whippet myself and dont have to worry too much about these things

Junior

Inquitus wrote: »

Skill sports, such as football. tennis and rugby, only offer very marginal benefits to drug cheats. Among footballers the most likely drug test fails are from recreational drug use rather than performance enhancing drug use, the same is true for rugby. I don't think it's really fair to compare football to cycling in this regard, when a cyclist can boost performance 20% or more if they eat the right beef

That's a misconception, while there is skill involved if you can keep going at a higher output, e.g. your able to recover faster, go longer, increase muscle power and you can kick, hit or tackle harder - look no further than Lionel Messi and the HGH Treatment Barca paid for.

RobFowl

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I don't agree with that at all. Yes, skill is part of the sport, but if you can run faster/be stronger/bigger it'll give you an advantage.

Look at how creatine use bloomed in rugby -yes it's legal, but it was a way to bulk up -if you can get better/quicker results with steroids, you can bet someone will try it.

I think it's perfectly fair to compare football to cycling (or any other sport) that has a list of banned substances. Not to mention the dreaded Operation Puerto, there were many suspected footballers on it.

I'm with tiny on this one. Cascarino wrote about getting unnamed injection by the team doctors and the Juventus doctors was convicted for doping the team with EPO in the 90's. A midfielder runs about 10k in a match and being able to do this faster with shorter recovery periods will offer substantial advantages. Bulk and strength in rugby also improve performance.

Lumen

Rasmussen demonstrating the depth of his intellect:

Michael Rasmussen, who served a two-year doping-related suspension, called Contador's claim of contaminated meat, “the only plausible explanation, he told the Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet.

“You have to judge what is performance enhancing. What they found Contador positive for has no performance enhancing effect. Their system leaves no room for common sense.”

fishfoodie

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm with tiny on this one. Cascarino wrote about getting unnamed injection by the team doctors and the Juventus doctors was convicted for doping the team with EPO in the 90's. A midfielder runs about 10k in a match and being able to do this faster with shorter recovery periods will offer substantial advantages. Bulk and strength in rugby also improve performance.

There are also the areas of pain-management & injury recovery as well. Both are areas where banned substances can help a cheat in any sport.

victorcarrera

fishfoodie wrote: »

There are also the areas of pain-management & injury recovery as well. Both are areas where banned substances can help a cheat in any sport.

I think there is a fix for every sport. Even the snooker players were/are taking uppers to enhance mental alertness during long competitions.

concussion

An interesting decision from CONI

Two important points can be taken from the Colo ruling. The first is that the Clenbuterol was accepted as being accidentally ingested from a food source, although the incidence of its use in Latin America is far higher than in Europe.

The second is that even though Colo was adjudged not to be at fault, he still received a twelve month ban.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5957/Italian-rider-Colo-given-a-reduced-ban-for-Clenbuterol-positive.aspx

Junior

A good friend of mine has had to be put on a 6 week course of epo. Cost of prescription €2500. :eek:

ednwireland

Inquitus wrote: »

Skill sports, such as football. tennis and rugby, only offer very marginal benefits to drug cheats. Among footballers the most likely drug test fails are from recreational drug use rather than performance enhancing drug use, the same is true for rugby. I don't think it's really fair to compare football to cycling in this regard, when a cyclist can boost performance 20% or more if they eat the right beef

considering what i used to see rugby players taking in a gym i was in 25 years ago i dont beleive any sport is clean, i do see cycling doing a hell of a lot more than other sports

ednwireland

2 positives at the commonwealth games one the gold medalist in the womens 100m dont see the press jumping up and downsaying its the end of athletics

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/commonwealth_games/delhi_2010/9086467.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/commonwealth_games/delhi_2010/9078690.stm

horizon26

Nick Drake wrote: »

Anyone read the article in the Sunday Times by David Walsh??

Reporting that the same German journalist, read the Operation Puerto documents and stated the Contador was all over them and no doubt to the fact that he was involved. All his team were. Every one of them.

He called it the 'biggest swindle in sporting history'. One of the greatest cover ups. Stating Contador shouldn't even be in the pro ranks.

Great to see an independent report on the documents.

Very interesting indeed.

All I am doing is reporting the article for those who might be interested, before I get my head bitten off for going back to Operation Puerto. I think this is very relevant.

I am not saying Contador is innocent or guilty,but David Walsh has made a lot of money reporting on cycling.I suppose he's doing it for the love of cycling.L.A confidential must have made him a nice few quid.

Surely a man is innocent until proven guilty.Contador has failed a drug test,but the quantity is so minute its hardly performance enhancing.As far as I know he had a drug test 3 days before and passed.Now everyone is saying he is a cheat.

The plasticisers have not been officially confirmed as yet,so it might be a lie.Well it might be,it wouldn't be the first lie the press have printed.If the plasticisers are not 8 times The normal level could Contador be well innocent?

Maybe David Walsh is the liar and the cheat.If the profits from L.A confidential were used to combat doping instead of going into Walsh's pocket he would have more credibility in my eyes.Journalist's can spin a story so everyone seems guilty.No solid proof of Armstrong's guilt or Contador's.In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean,not so much with Contador.

Now there is a German Journalist who has read the documents(operation puerto) and stated the "biggest swindle in sporting history".Why oh why would some one cover up,if Contador is guilty why.Contador had not even won a grand tour and was just a up and coming cyclist.What would some one gain from letting Contador of the hook.Can anyone explain this to me,David Walsh is the only one who is gaining in this story

petethedrummer

horizon26 wrote: »

I am not saying Contador is innocent or guilty,but David Walsh has made a lot of money reporting on cycling.I suppose he's doing it for the love of cycling.L.A confidential must have made him a nice few quid.

Walsh has openly stated that writing those books about Lance has amounted to a pay cut from his job in the Sunday Times.

Its in one of these interviews:
http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2007/07/148david-walsh-part-1/
http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2007/07/149david-walsh-part-2/

horizon26 wrote: »

Surely a man is innocent until proven guilty.Contador has failed a drug test,but the quantity is so minute its hardly performance enhancing.

The level of clenbuterol may not be performance enhancing but the presence of clenbuterol points to possibility of re-infusing tainted blood.

horizon26 wrote: »

As far as I know he had a drug test 3 days before and passed.Now everyone is saying he is a cheat.

He may have reinfused blood between tests.

horizon26 wrote: »

Maybe David Walsh is the liar and the cheat.

He's chief sports editor in the Sunday Times and has won many sports journalism awards.
http://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/sja-journalism-awards/past-winners-of-the-sja-journalism-awards/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article3602865.ece

Listen to his interviews above and compare them to the mealy mouthed words of Lance Armstrong and Contador and all the rest when it comes to doping. Then tell me who is most likely the liar and the cheat.

horizon26 wrote: »

If the profits from L.A confidential were used to combat doping instead of going into Walsh's pocket he would have more credibility in my eyes.Journalist's can spin a story so everyone seems guilty.No solid proof of Armstrong's guilt or Contador's.In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean,not so much with Contador.

If you read back through this thread there are quotes from French cyclists who weren't surprised by Contador being caught. But maybe thats just sour grapes to go with Walsh's made up stories:rolleyes:. Contador was part of Liberty Siguros, Astana and Discovery Channel which all had organised doping programs. Went toe to toe with a doped to the gills Rasmussen. AC in operacion Puerto. The suspicious TT in TDF 2009. to name but a few incidents.

horizon26 wrote: »

Now there is a German Journalist who has read the documents(operation puerto) and stated the "biggest swindle in sporting history".Why oh why would some one cover up,if Contador is guilty why.Contador had not even won a grand tour and was just a up and coming cyclist.What would some one gain from letting Contador of the hook.Can anyone explain this to me,David Walsh is the only one who is gaining in this story

Doping wasn't an offence in Spain at the time. So it would have been hard to prosecute anyone. Then when it was discovered that leading football and tennis stars were on Dr Fuentes' books, it just supressed any will to expose any athletes. The judge also would not turn over the documents to anti-doping authorities.

Most of this has already been explained in this thread. But you could be right and it all could be a journalist led consipiracy against these innocent cyclists.

petethedrummer

horizon26 wrote: »

In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean.

Why do you reckon that is??

This chap maybe?

horizon26

petethedrummer wrote: »

Why do you reckon that is??

This chap maybe?

So David won the british sports journalism in 2000.Patrick Collins won it in 2008.Have you ever read anything he has written,utter sh*t no facts.A few years ago he wrote about Chelsea saying he could manage Chelsea and they would win the league.

That year Manu won the league and good ol Pat wrote they should sell the whole team apart from Terry.That the team was crap and no Chelsea player would get on the best premier team.

Martin Samuel won in 2007,I could go on.I think you get th message.British sports journalist are some of the worst in Europe.In Europe British sports writers are not well respected at all and thats a fact.

horizon26

Look pete I just disagree with what you view.Are you totally against drug use in cycling.

Lumen

horizon26 wrote: »

I think you get th message.British sports journalist are some of the worst in Europe.In Europe British sports writers are not well respected at all and thats a fact.

Top points for an original defence.

petethedrummer

horizon26 wrote: »

Look pete I just disagree with what you view.Are you totally against drug use in cycling.

Yes.

NickDrake

horizon26 wrote: »

I am not saying Contador is innocent or guilty,but David Walsh has made a lot of money reporting on cycling.I suppose he's doing it for the love of cycling.L.A confidential must have made him a nice few quid.

Surely a man is innocent until proven guilty.Contador has failed a drug test,but the quantity is so minute its hardly performance enhancing.As far as I know he had a drug test 3 days before and passed.Now everyone is saying he is a cheat.

The plasticisers have not been officially confirmed as yet,so it might be a lie.Well it might be,it wouldn't be the first lie the press have printed.If the plasticisers are not 8 times The normal level could Contador be well innocent?

Maybe David Walsh is the liar and the cheat.If the profits from L.A confidential were used to combat doping instead of going into Walsh's pocket he would have more credibility in my eyes.Journalist's can spin a story so everyone seems guilty.No solid proof of Armstrong's guilt or Contador's.In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean,not so much with Contador.

Now there is a German Journalist who has read the documents(operation puerto) and stated the "biggest swindle in sporting history".Why oh why would some one cover up,if Contador is guilty why.Contador had not even won a grand tour and was just a up and coming cyclist.What would some one gain from letting Contador of the hook.Can anyone explain this to me,David Walsh is the only one who is gaining in this story

:rolleyes: is all I will say to that.

horizon26

petethedrummer wrote: »

Yes.

Then why did you put Marco Pantani as won of your heroes.

You also thought Fabian Cancellara had a motor in his bike,and thats why he won a few spring classics this year.

Diarmuid

worst. ad hominem. ever

furiousox

horizon26 wrote: »

In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean....

Hmm, not so sure about that, he's really let himself go since he retired..

http://www.swi9a.com/v2/files/photos/185e65bc4058188L.jpg

petethedrummer

horizon26 wrote: »

Then why did you put Marco Pantani as won of your heroes.

Did I? Where? When?

horizon26 wrote: »

You also thought Fabian Cancellara had a motor in his bike,and thats why he won a few spring classics this year.

I don't remember that. It is possible I may have sided with the consipiracy theorists purely tongue in cheek.

Why is this becoming about me?

DirkVoodoo

horizon26 wrote: »

So David won the british sports journalism in 2000.Patrick Collins won it in 2008.Have you ever read anything he has written,utter sh*t no facts.A few years ago he wrote about Chelsea saying he could manage Chelsea and they would win the league.

Probably right, look at Avram Grant at West Ham now...

petethedrummer

@horizon26: I think you're talking through your hole.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055925633

Here's me not getting involved in a thread about my supposed hero. I'm such a huge fan.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055828917

Here's my actual favorites(though I wouldn't be surpised if Evans wasn't squeaky clean).
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055794258

mcgratheoin

To paraphrase your good self.

horizon26 wrote: »

Maybe David Walsh is the liar and the cheat.

horizon26 wrote: »

Surely a man is innocent until proven guilty.

horizon26 wrote: »

If the profits from L.A confidential were used to combat doping instead of going into Walsh's pocket Contador had come out and said that doping had no place in cycling and that drug cheats should be thrown out for good he would have more credibility in my eyes. Journalists Director Sportifs and doctors can spin a story so everyone seems guilty innocent. No solid proof (except for a positive drug test) of Armstrong's guilt or Contador's. In Armstrong's case there is a lot of doubt he is clean,not so much same with Contador.

Look, Contador has just tested positive for a banned substance, not sure why you still think there's a lack of proof. You either accept the rules or you don't - you can't decide yourself which excuses to accept and which not to accept.

horizon26 wrote: »

Why oh why would some one cover up,if Contador is guilty why.

Really? You really don't understand why it may be in the interest of the UCI or Astana or any multitude of other parties to cover up drug use?

horizon26 wrote: »

David Walsh is the only one who is gaining in this story

Sorry, but by your logic Andy Shleck must be the instigator of the entire affair - clearly if Contador is banned he'll be the big winner?

horizon26 wrote: »

So David won the british sports journalism in 2000.Patrick Collins won it in 2008.Have you ever read anything he has written,utter sh*t no facts.

Just because Yasser Arafat once won the Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean anyone else who ever won it is not well respected in Europe. If an unworthy recipient receives an award it does not automatically make all recipients unworthy - that's Logic 101.

Chips Lovell

horizon26 wrote: »

If the profits from L.A confidential were used to combat doping instead of going into Walsh's pocket he would have more credibility in my eyes.

Hang on a second, so he wrote something and got paid for it? Disgraceful. What kind of journalist is this guy?

RobFowl

Looks like Bert is going to be a two time tour winner again....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/14102010/58/wada-rejects-contador-excuse.html

The World Anti-Doping Agency has dismissed Tour de France champion Alberto Contador's claims that his positive test was the result of tainted meat, saying they had heard the excuse before.



The Spanish cyclist was provisionally suspended by the International Cycling Union after testing positive for very small concentration of a banned anabolic agent during this year's Tour de France.
Contador claims the presence of clenbuterol in his system was due to contaminated meat containing minute traces of the substance.
"It's been raised before, it's been heard in a couple of cases and rejected," WADA director general David said. "It's not unusual

BryanL

horizon26 wrote: »

So David won the british sports journalism in 2000.Patrick Collins won it in 2008.Have you ever read anything he has written,utter sh*t no facts.A few years ago he wrote about Chelsea saying he could manage Chelsea and they would win the league.

That year Manu won the league and good ol Pat wrote they should sell the whole team apart from Terry.That the team was crap and no Chelsea player would get on the best premier team.

Martin Samuel won in 2007,I could go on.I think you get th message.British sports journalist are some of the worst in Europe.In Europe British sports writers are not well respected at all and thats a fact.

So do you think David Walsh is the problem?

Inquitus

BryanL wrote: »

So do you think David Walsh is the problem?

Aye, he was the farmer.

backtobass

Looks like its increasingly looking bad for contador.......http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/experts-poke-holes-in-contadors-contaminated-meat-defense

ednwireland

contadors defence weakened ffs he never had one !

Chips Lovell

Interesting. Major Clenbuterol bust in Spain:

Thirteen pharmacists, eight pharmacy technicians, eight vets from Gran Canaria and one in Tenerife, a farmer, a sales manager for pharmaceutical products, a bodybuilder and a cyclist were amongst those taken into custody, according to EFE.

Beasty

... from Gran Canaria ... and a cyclist were amongst those taken into custody, according to EFE.

Not Dave11 I hope:D

(might explain some of his performances in the Swords League this season though)

Diarmuid

Guess who was training in Tenerife this year?