Armed Revolt, Coup d'état Would you support it?

southsiderosie

DHYNZY wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but has a member of the Irish government proposed the tax hike.. or was it a tag line quote from an MEP? I'm not suggesting to ignore the figures, I'm suggesting that as part of a long-term strategy the figures aren't overwhelming, and in particular with the assets that we have as a nation we shouldn't find it difficult in the long run to encourage investment as long as we keep a calm head. The cuts in University funding was required, we still pay less than most countries, and the monetary abuses of most third level institutions was as criminal as the banks (trinity is still paying three provosts an enormous 6 figure sum). And Enterprise are already attracting foreign based companies, as I have already said, with newly adjusted wage levels. This has already happened. Its a long road back up, but not insurmountable.

We are simply not going to agree here, as frankly I think your view of Ireland's economic prospects are fanciful at best. Best of luck though.

DHYNZY wrote: »

And its not cheap patriotism to reassert the historical brilliance of the Irish work ethic. We have a long history of economic turbulence and every time we have risen above it. And yes you did belittle the Irish workforce when you made them out to be a paltry sum in the face of such a magnitude of rising debt.

WTF are you going on about? Saying Ireland has a small workforce =/=belittling the workforce.

And I know Irish people are brilliant workers; who do you think built the US? Your government's incompetence = our gain.

North korea?

You serious?

Jeez, 160-odd of ye would go toe-to-toe with the Irish Defence Forces? Tell the real world to go f*ck themselves?

FFS lads, 1 brings death and the other national poverty a la North Korea.

Nutjob extremist politics.

EarlERizer

This thread seems to have dipped and climbed over the last 21 pages, some good debate and some nonsense,the original topic asked would you supprt an armed revolt..

but, in keeping with the going off topic, i just want to put my honest veiwpoint out there, now i'm no business man, im no finance whizz kid, commerce and it's workings where never my strong point.....I am your "average joe" everyday man on the street....and i'm bitter, angry,dissillusioned,fearful,worried,broke reaching desperation ....I've lost my job, i've spent the last 10 months job seeking,i've applied for jobs i could do in my sleep, i've gone to sign on each month, ive watched the ever increasing queue's and it sickens me how it's all come about.....now I said , i'd give my honesty here and i will , some will wag their PC finger at me and call me whatever, you know what? at this point I dont give 2 fooks, call me what you care , i know what i am and i know what i'm not, i dont pretend to be anything other than that, i wont pontificate or exaggerate , just me, average joe saying it as i've seen/experienced it.

Irish company of almost 100yrs "merges" with French rival,as a "safeguard" to maintaining business, within 1st year, new owners announce first round cuts "re-evaluation" , 6mths later announces "re-structuring" of production (i.e. ceasing production here and moving it to France - Products that are indigenous to the Irish market place),2nd yr of new regime and its announced that the business model is no longer viable and the plant would be closing Jan/Feb 2010 ....during this time,meetings were held, we were all told of the hard times ahead but that we'd all work together to get us through it, what was needed was our "cooperation" (salary reductions,salary caps,bonus's abolished,working O/T at flat rate,reduced O/T,reduced head count etc) and al the while we worked doggedly to show we could do the job and be productive and cost effective ....but to no avail, we "closed operations" and got bare minimum packages for our efforts ...the slap in the face....company now operates as a "hub" for the partner company employing 90% cheap foreign labour....or as they call it "semi-skilled, non-skilled" workforce. .... That was my personal experience over the last 2 years.

Now there are those of us who know for fact, there are those who dont believe it to be so,but we are a cash cow for this foreign labour force,very little of what they earn stays in the irish economy,so seems to me all those business's operating today with a majority of cheap foreign labour are contributing to our demise,while it makes immediate business sense to them to keep their overheads down in the long term they're weaking the economy,now this isnt just me spouting bile or bull,i have heard it from the horse's mouth both from "business men" and from countless honest east european workers who have no qualms about admitting they send the bulk of their income "home" ,some of whom have enlightened me to the fact they also avail of other earnings (state payments) as they are fathers working away from home,basically they claim for a "childrens allowance" type payment, 2 guys in particular brazenly told me they were also claiming benefits , I was further enlightened to the idea that when they find themselves inbetween jobs the social welfare pay (or part pay) their way home (they dont nessacerily go home but sell on the fare to another who has intended on going home for a period of time)....now i understand these guys are just playing the system and who can blame them? we'd probably all do it ourselves given the chance.....however, it leaves a bad taste,especially when politicians would have us believe this to be nonsense and that nothing like this goes on.....and we all know they dont lie!!! , we have allowed our economy be pumped n milked like this for years now and for all intent n purpose we're now trying to put a band aid on a severed artery!! we've let this economy (the so called celtic tiger) hemorrhage money whilst we were all drunk on our own "success" and now we have to hear our government tell us we have to bare the brunt of thier miss-managment,like it or lump it.......I know the above isnt the only reason we're in the state we're in, but it just seems to me that all the focus seems to be aimed at thegovernment,the high end bankers and developers for how they behaved but we cant forget that the middle of the road business's played their part in the whole sorry mess!

It just gauls me that we all just seem to be rolling over and taken it with a shrug of our shoulders in the good old fashioned irish way "ah sure thats the way it is now" ,happy to grumble,bemoan n argue the finer points over a few pints in whatever watering hole we frequent.

Armed revolt is a ridiculous notion,of course it is,but jaysus something needs to be done to let every one of those fookers in Dail Eireann know (and i mean everyone of them,opposition parties et al) that we just not going to take anymore nor be treated like this every again!!! ffs what will our kids face? our kids kids? ..... in my opinion we weakened ourselves buying into the whole Euro thing , our nearest neighbours have been able to face the challenge of the "global downturn" more optimisticlly because they held onto their sovereign currency.

The eyes of the world where firmly on us during the Lisbon treaty fiasco,they're watching again , some in amusement,some in amazement some in disbelief.

It's a sorry state of affairs that even now ,when things just seem to get bleaker n bleaker we're more prepared to argue amongst ourselves ,the blame game,mockingly etc rather than working to galvanise our nation in solidarity against the corrupt elements that have repeatedly let us down whilst trying to lay the blame anywhere else but with those responsible!

Sorry,for the long rant,but i just wanted my last say on the matter before leaving this thread to run its course.

:mad:

p.s.
Having read back over this , i realise it all sounds abit one sided, I'm fully aware that our welfare system is also been raped & pillaged by many of our own,and it's been going on a hell of a lot longer than what i've mentioned above.....but again,I blame the government for failing to control,process,assess and implement the social welfare system.

In conclusion...there are a great many people on our little western europe outcrop who could well do with taking a long hard look at themselves before pointing fingers of blame anywhere else!

Poccington

EarlERizer wrote: »

I dont think its coincidental at all, i think it's a clear sign that governments are preparing for an expected public demonstration of anger,fear,desperation...im sure if more of us knew gardai or defence forces personal we'd probably be able to tell of simular stories.....or it could just be people stirring it up, we're at a time right now were peoples sensitivities are high,propaganda is believed & dismissed in equal measure.....unfortunately like everything else that's gone on we just have to wait and see how it all unfolds and then see if we as individuals were right in thinking how we thought on certain things.

There is no ongoing or planned training going on within the DF to deal with any kind of expected homegrown Public Order situation.

It's one of our skill sets but it's not recieving any kind of special attention when it comes to training.

Johro

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Yes I would support a revolt. I believe the only way unfortunately is the use of violence at this stage. It is worrying how many Irish people are willing to lie down and take all this, no wonder we are getting screwed

Apt username:D
Tis all b#llcks though. You'd have to have people to take it's place. Organisation is required. If you feel that strongly, start a new party and get yourself elected. Failing that, just don't keep voting for one of two or three useless showers each time they're up for election.
I wouldn't expect miracles though.
Banks dictate policy worldwide.

th3 s1aught3r

Johro wrote: »

If you feel that strongly, start a new party and get yourself elected. Failing that, just don't keep voting for one of two or three useless showers each time they're up for election.
I wouldn't expect miracles though.
Banks dictate policy worldwide.

No I would not run for election. I dont have any faith in the political system, I think its rotton from the top down. Thats why I would support a Coup which had the intention to change the system, not just the government.

Seloth

Dont ya just love it when people think their Cathal Brugha Or Collins

Johro

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

No I would not run for election. I dont have any faith in the political system, I think its rotton from the top down. Thats why I would support a Coup which had the intention to change the system, not just the government.

Well in that case, I'm all for it.

Poccington

Poccington wrote: »

There is no ongoing or planned training going on within the DF to deal with any kind of expected homegrown Public Order situation.

It's one of our skill sets but it's not recieving any kind of special attention when it comes to training.

That could be a potential disaster if there is largescale unrest.
In NI at the start of the troubles, British troops were put onto the streets without any specific training on dealing with civil disorder.

DingChavez

All along that singing river that black mass of men was seen,
High above their shining weapons flew their own beloved green.
"Death to every foe and traitor! Whistle out the marching tune."
And hurrah my boys for freedom; 'tis the rising of the moon"!

th3 s1aught3r

Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk the corner to the rubble, that used to be a library
Look to the mind cemetery now

KevinVonSpiel

Stinicker wrote: »

The time has long since passed for action against Fianna Fail which has taken one of the best performing economies in the World and put us on a par with a debt ridden 3rd world country.

Ireland was one of the best performing economies in the World the same way that Madoff was a financial wizard.

melekalikimaka

its these sort of threads that make me wonder if maybe there should be an intellect test before being given the abilty to vote...

Einhard

Stinicker wrote: »

Ireland needs you,

Are you man enough?

I'd shoot you in the head in defence of democracy rather than support any attempt by you or anyone else to usurp the democratic process for your own end.

cock robin

EarlERizer wrote: »

This thread seems to have dipped and climbed over the last 21 pages, some good debate and some nonsense,the original topic asked would you supprt an armed revolt..

but, in keeping with the going off topic, i just want to put my honest veiwpoint out there, now i'm no business man, im no finance whizz kid, commerce and it's workings where never my strong point.....I am your "average joe" everyday man on the street....and i'm bitter, angry,dissillusioned,fearful,worried,broke reaching desperation ....I've lost my job, i've spent the last 10 months job seeking,i've applied for jobs i could do in my sleep, i've gone to sign on each month, ive watched the ever increasing queue's and it sickens me how it's all come about.....now I said , i'd give my honesty here and i will , some will wag their PC finger at me and call me whatever, you know what? at this point I dont give 2 fooks, call me what you care , i know what i am and i know what i'm not, i dont pretend to be anything other than that, i wont pontificate or exaggerate , just me, average joe saying it as i've seen/experienced it.

Irish company of almost 100yrs "merges" with French rival,as a "safeguard" to maintaining business, within 1st year, new owners announce first round cuts "re-evaluation" , 6mths later announces "re-structuring" of production (i.e. ceasing production here and moving it to France - Products that are indigenous to the Irish market place),2nd yr of new regime and its announced that the business model is no longer viable and the plant would be closing Jan/Feb 2010 ....during this time,meetings were held, we were all told of the hard times ahead but that we'd all work together to get us through it, what was needed was our "cooperation" (salary reductions,salary caps,bonus's abolished,working O/T at flat rate,reduced O/T,reduced head count etc) and al the while we worked doggedly to show we could do the job and be productive and cost effective ....but to no avail, we "closed operations" and got bare minimum packages for our efforts ...the slap in the face....company now operates as a "hub" for the partner company employing 90% cheap foreign labour....or as they call it "semi-skilled, non-skilled" workforce. .... That was my personal experience over the last 2 years.

Now there are those of us who know for fact, there are those who dont believe it to be so,but we are a cash cow for this foreign labour force,very little of what they earn stays in the irish economy,so seems to me all those business's operating today with a majority of cheap foreign labour are contributing to our demise,while it makes immediate business sense to them to keep their overheads down in the long term they're weaking the economy,now this isnt just me spouting bile or bull,i have heard it from the horse's mouth both from "business men" and from countless honest east european workers who have no qualms about admitting they send the bulk of their income "home" ,some of whom have enlightened me to the fact they also avail of other earnings (state payments) as they are fathers working away from home,basically they claim for a "childrens allowance" type payment, 2 guys in particular brazenly told me they were also claiming benefits , I was further enlightened to the idea that when they find themselves inbetween jobs the social welfare pay (or part pay) their way home (they dont nessacerily go home but sell on the fare to another who has intended on going home for a period of time)....now i understand these guys are just playing the system and who can blame them? we'd probably all do it ourselves given the chance.....however, it leaves a bad taste,especially when politicians would have us believe this to be nonsense and that nothing like this goes on.....and we all know they dont lie!!! , we have allowed our economy be pumped n milked like this for years now and for all intent n purpose we're now trying to put a band aid on a severed artery!! we've let this economy (the so called celtic tiger) hemorrhage money whilst we were all drunk on our own "success" and now we have to hear our government tell us we have to bare the brunt of thier miss-managment,like it or lump it.......I know the above isnt the only reason we're in the state we're in, but it just seems to me that all the focus seems to be aimed at thegovernment,the high end bankers and developers for how they behaved but we cant forget that the middle of the road business's played their part in the whole sorry mess!

It just gauls me that we all just seem to be rolling over and taken it with a shrug of our shoulders in the good old fashioned irish way "ah sure thats the way it is now" ,happy to grumble,bemoan n argue the finer points over a few pints in whatever watering hole we frequent.

Armed revolt is a ridiculous notion,of course it is,but jaysus something needs to be done to let every one of those fookers in Dail Eireann know (and i mean everyone of them,opposition parties et al) that we just not going to take anymore nor be treated like this every again!!! ffs what will our kids face? our kids kids? ..... in my opinion we weakened ourselves buying into the whole Euro thing , our nearest neighbours have been able to face the challenge of the "global downturn" more optimisticlly because they held onto their sovereign currency.

The eyes of the world where firmly on us during the Lisbon treaty fiasco,they're watching again , some in amusement,some in amazement some in disbelief.

It's a sorry state of affairs that even now ,when things just seem to get bleaker n bleaker we're more prepared to argue amongst ourselves ,the blame game,mockingly etc rather than working to galvanise our nation in solidarity against the corrupt elements that have repeatedly let us down whilst trying to lay the blame anywhere else but with those responsible!

Sorry,for the long rant,but i just wanted my last say on the matter before leaving this thread to run its course.

:mad:

p.s.
Having read back over this , i realise it all sounds abit one sided, I'm fully aware that our welfare system is also been raped & pillaged by many of our own,and it's been going on a hell of a lot longer than what i've mentioned above.....but again,I blame the government for failing to control,process,assess and implement the social welfare system.

In conclusion...there are a great many people on our little western europe outcrop who could well do with taking a long hard look at themselves before pointing fingers of blame anywhere else!

Well said dude. Where is our courage in all this debacle. As a relatively new nation on the global stage we fcuked up. We made a mistake a collective mistake. Cowen, Lenihan, Fitzpatrick and Fingleton will always be the names associated with our problems. But if we are honest we are all to blame. Everyone who inflated the price of their home and borrowed money recklessly to spend on second homes, extensons or a third car is to blame . I understand not every citizen became a mini capatalist and those who just went about their business as normal are suffering. But like all conflict and this is an economic war, they are the casualties. We need to stop pointing fingers. Every nation suffers a crisis at one time or another famine, war, drought,tsunami and just about every other calamity under the sun and they come through it and so will Ireland. Let's just get on with it. Revolution my arse how anyone can think that will pay the bill's is a mystery. There are people surfacing now who may become a great leader of our nation and who may change our entire system and someone in whom we can trust to turn our fortunes around. But for now lets at least conduct ourselves with some kind of dignity and stop the blame game. We voted them in and we can vote them out. Let's encourage every one to focus on the way forward and let the world know that we ain't beaten and we will in a dignified and modern way deal with our problems. And FFS stop whinging.

OK, I've made my serious reply, if an armed revolt took place I would absolutely hate it, because I'd have to kill my fellow countrymen. I'd channel that hate into doing whatever it takes to kill the ringleaders who forced me to kill my fellow countrymen.

But this is AH. I don't like being serious in AH.

So to the (now) 174 pr*cks who are brain dead enough to support armed revolt.

This awaits you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OTg43lNQUg

Come get some, yeh commie bastards.

th3 s1aught3r

Deleted User wrote: »

if an armed revolt took place I would absolutely hate it, because I'd have to kill my fellow countrymen. I'd channel that hate into doing whatever it takes to kill the ringleaders who forced me to kill my fellow countrymen.
.

So you have no problem killing people then ?

Fr0g

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

So you have no problem killing people then ?

Relax, whats he going to do? hit people over the head with his PS3 controller?

speedboatchase

Stinicker wrote: »

The time has long since passed for action against Fianna Fail which has taken one of the best performing economies in the World and put us on a par with a debt ridden 3rd world country.

For 800 long years we fought British Rule, this government has overseen the greatest robbery of wealth from the working and middle classes since the Plantations of Ireland under the British Crown.

Fianna Fail has committed Treason against the people and must be removed from office and punished harshly. They cannot be allowed to get away with this. If Ireland was under British rule today and this was happening we would more than happy to rebel and fight for our rights. We must fight these Traitors and get them out when the system of checks and balances in our democracy and constitution have failed to protect the country from the level of economic pillage.

My family before me fought for our freedom and died in the process and seeing what is happening now I would be prepared to put my life on the line and fight to remove these treasonous criminals from office. I can't emigrate and any hopes of becoming successful in life have been destroyed by these criminals and Ireland is now in the same place as we were under British occupation.

Ireland needs you,

Are you man enough?

Sounds like the best opening crawl for a videogame ever

mickydoomsux

speedboatchase wrote: »

Sounds like the best opening crawl for a videogame ever

"Are you a bad enough dude to kick Brian Cowen in the scrote?"

Seriously though, if an armed revolt somehow suceeded do people actually think we still be allowed in the EU? Do people think other countries would lend to us or trade with us? Would multinationals set up in a country full of fickle idiots who'll riot rather than use politics?

Anyway, i don't think a combination of lazy, chronically unemployed lay-abouts and jobless builders would be much problem for even just the Gardai let alone the Defence forces.

JayRoc

Civil disobedience, mass public protests, even armed insurrection...?
We can't even get people to get out on polling day and vote, for christ's sake. Maybe start with that.

Poccington

Deleted User wrote: »

That could be a potential disaster if there is largescale unrest.
In NI at the start of the troubles, British troops were put onto the streets without any specific training on dealing with civil disorder.

Sorry, I didn't mean for my post to look like I was saying the DF doesn't conduct Public Order training. We do of course conduct Public Order training and our Public Order platoons more than held their own during the riots in Kosovo.

I merely meant that all these rumours that we're flat out conducting Public Order training in preparation for hitting the streets of Ireland is nonsense. We conduct as much Public Order training now as we normally do.

Stinicker

mickydoomsux wrote: »

"Are you a bad enough dude to kick Brian Cowen in the scrote?"

Seriously though, if an armed revolt somehow suceeded do people actually think we still be allowed in the EU? Do people think other countries would lend to us or trade with us? Would multinationals set up in a country full of fickle idiots who'll riot rather than use politics?

Well the EU are doing everything in their power to bring Turkey into the EU and they have had multiple coups, there is a big difference between a coup against Dictators (Ireland's case) and one by dictators. The Multinationals are here for the 12.5% corporation tax; it is hardly for our good governance :rolleyes: or our crappy infrastructure. They will be going nowhere and Corporation Tax should be cut to 10% anyway.

Anyway, i don't think a combination of lazy, chronically unemployed lay-abouts and jobless builders would be much problem for even just the Gardai let alone the Defence forces.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Anyway, i don't think a combination of lazy, chronically unemployed lay-abouts and jobless builders would be much problem for even just the Gardai let alone the Defence forces.

Yes I think we should all attack those lazy people on the dole, them being too lazy to work is what caused all this mess after all - Right? If you have been living in the real world at all, there is no jobs in the country, people are not on the dole by lifestyle choice but out of economic necessity. Fianna Fail destroyed our economy and as a result there is no jobs.

I have great respect for the Gardai and Armed Forces and expect them to join to remove Fianna Fail and destroy their party. As keepers of law they have to enforce it. Otherwise we will be in a situation where the people are oppressed as happened under British Rule, if this happens and the Gardai and Army are willing to kill citizens to keep an illegal dictat without a mandate then they are asking for all out war.

Mark200

Stinicker wrote: »

Well the EU are doing everything in their power to bring Turkey into the EU and they have had multiple coups, there is a big difference between a coup against Dictators (Ireland's case) and one by dictators.

I suggest you use a dictionary before you start using words such as 'dictator' so liberally.

Also, in relation to the rest of your post... multinationals won't want part of a non-stable country. Especially one where people revolt in response to the country trying to pay back debt.

mickydoomsux

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes I think we should all attack those lazy people on the dole, them being too lazy to work is what caused all this mess after all - Right? If you have been living in the real world at all, there is no jobs in the country, people are not on the dole by lifestyle choice but out of economic necessity. Fianna Fail destroyed our economy and as a result there is no jobs.

What about the 100,000 odd that were still on the dole even at the height of the boom? We had people coming in to the country in droves for work and yet these 100,000 natives couldn't be bothered because of our overly generous unemployment benefits. Our situation is partly their fault because they were and still are a huge drain on the countrys finances.

As for their being no jobs in the country, there are jobs but as i've said before an average fella who used to work on a building site is far too proud to take a job stacking shelves or waiting tables. He wants to be out with his buddies "havin' the craic" hanging off the side of a building. And this isn't even taking into account the amount of these lads working on the QT a few days a week and getting cash in hand as well as their dole.

twinytwo

Stinicker wrote: »

Well the EU are doing everything in their power to bring Turkey into the EU and they have had multiple coups, there is a big difference between a coup against Dictators (Ireland's case) and one by dictators. The Multinationals are here for the 12.5% corporation tax; it is hardly for our good governance :rolleyes: or our crappy infrastructure. They will be going nowhere and Corporation Tax should be cut to 10% anyway.

Anyway, i don't think a combination of lazy, chronically unemployed lay-abouts and jobless builders would be much problem for even just the Gardai let alone the Defence forces.



Yes I think we should all attack those lazy people on the dole, them being too lazy to work is what caused all this mess after all - Right? If you have been living in the real world at all, there is no jobs in the country, people are not on the dole by lifestyle choice but out of economic necessity. Fianna Fail destroyed our economy and as a result there is no jobs.

I have great respect for the Gardai and Armed Forces and expect them to join to remove Fianna Fail and destroy their party. As keepers of law they have to enforce it. Otherwise we will be in a situation where the people are oppressed as happened under British Rule, if this happens and the Gardai and Army are willing to kill citizens to keep an illegal dictat without a mandate then they are asking for all out war.

id say the onyl people that want Turkey in the EU are the yanks so they can throw up more bases.. if turkey gets into the eu im leaving for aus

EarlERizer

JayRoc wrote: »

Civil disobedience, mass public protests, even armed insurrection...?
We can't even get people to get out on polling day and vote, for christ's sake. Maybe start with that.

Hear hear,spot on, when it comes to using our constituitional right alot of us simply can't be arsed or don't understand......this is especially the case in "lower class" area's where those eligable to vote have no understanding or concept of their right to vote, they don't register to vote as they dont know how to, they have no familiarity with politicians as they're only "dopes ya see on the news or on posters" and they have no real concept of the implications their lack of voting may have on their future's.

I don't know how it is nowadays in schools but when i was growing up there was no classes that encouraged social awareness of current affairs, we weren't encouraged to express opinions, so I never understood what politicians were or did that had a direct impact on my life,then all of a sudden i'm 18 eligable to vote with no clue as to who,why or what i was voting for or against so you try make a choice based on what you see/hear around you, it's only as I got older and understood more that i could make a clearer decision for myself...that said I never ignored my right to vote, there hasn't been a poll in this country that i've missed since been eligable.... lol i earned the nickname "Jim Larkin" amongst my peers as they credit/bemoan me with bringing things to their awareness as i'd climb atop my soapbox when they'd sooner talk shop,football,women etc,I was/am a persistant fooker on the lead up to elections constantly reminded,nudging,encouraging,annoying those i know to do the right thing and vote,even if they dont know who,why or what for , use your vote, your voice, your right, spoil your vote if you want , just do something with it rather than just not be bothered.....I knwo in more recent times we've seen a larger number of younger people voting which is brilliant but there are still a generation of us out there who are very poorly informed in the world of politics and our voice in how things are done.

I don't want to sound like some activist for an uprising, i've already said I dont agree with any kind of armed revolt in regard to todays situation but a "war" of another kind,a war of words,a battle of wits a political war ,an uprising of will of voice to be heard, to be acknowledged to be listened too and acted upon ,for change,real change,
I think about those who came before us,those who brought about this "Republic of Ireland",James Connolly a Scottish born activist who galvanished the ordinary working (and unemployed) Irishman with his socialist and trade unionist background, forming the Irish Citizens Army (founded to protect Irish workers conditions), later fighting alongside the IRB & the Irish volunteers during the rising, a man whose influence over our nation was so powerful that they rathered him dead than jailed thus excuting him strapped to a chair,crippled from injury.....Patrick Pearse,Joseph Plunkett,Thomas Clarke,Eamon Ceannt,Thomas McDonagh,Sean McDermott, Michael Collins,Duffy,Barton,Duggan & Griffith,even that great shister De Velara ,and long before them Wolfe Tone, Daniel O'Connell, etc , our history has served up some great figures, men that make you feel proud to be Irish and what it means to be Irish ........ in recent times? save for some of our sports people, who has given us anything to feel proud of? Politically prehaps John Hume aprt from that who ,Haughey? Fitzgerald? Srping? Dukes?Reynolds?Ahern? Roche?Cowen? Kenny? Gilmore? Bruton? Rabbitte? Adams? Harney? yada yada yada etc etc ad nauseum.....

Over the course of the last 88 years everything that our nation was built on has been systematically dismantled brick by brick by the succession of immoral,unjust,corrupt feckers that "graced" the halls of power, and here we are today almost in tatters,bickering amongst ourselves whilst those reckless few who held the power and made the decisions walk free (and rich) in their millionaire lifestyles unaccountable for the suffering they've heaped on the "ordinary" people of Ireland.

I live in hope that from the ashes of this great debacle new leadership emerges,strong leadership with the sincerest best interests of Ireland as a whole, however I also fear that in the aftermath of Masstricht,Nice, Lisbon & the Euro we will never enjoy the prosperity & posterity we so deserve.

I hope that from this we engage with our younger generation going forward,that they learn from the past mistakes of our generation and those before us,that political ignorance is minimised and they can form good judgments,good choices,good decisions for the betterment of our nation and its people,ours & theirs only tools for "revolution" should be our/their voices,votes & choices.

We wouldn't be in this situation today had the law been used correctly i.e. to punish as well as protect those who betrayed Ireland & her children.

"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies,to be soveriegn & indefeasible"

Somewhere between the writting of those first lines and the cattle prod led 2nd Lisbon vote we lost our way.

There are a great many great Irishmen/women turning in their graves today.

fontanalis

EarlERizer wrote: »

Hear hear,spot on, when it comes to using our constituitional right alot of us simply can't be arsed or don't understand......this is especially the case in "lower class" area's where those eligable to vote have no understanding or concept of their right to vote, they don't register to vote as they dont know how to, they have no familiarity with politicians as they're only "dopes ya see on the news or on posters" and they have no real concept of the implications their lack of voting may have on their future's.

I don't know how it is nowadays in schools but when i was growing up there was no classes that encouraged social awareness of current affairs, we weren't encouraged to express opinions, so I never understood what politicians were or did that had a direct impact on my life,then all of a sudden i'm 18 eligable to vote with no clue as to who,why or what i was voting for or against so you try make a choice based on what you see/hear around you, it's only as I got older and understood more that i could make a clearer decision for myself...that said I never ignored my right to vote, there hasn't been a poll in this country that i've missed since been eligable.... lol i earned the nickname "Jim Larkin" amongst my peers as they credit/bemoan me with bringing things to their awareness as i'd climb atop my soapbox when they'd sooner talk shop,football,women etc,I was/am a persistant fooker on the lead up to elections constantly reminded,nudging,encouraging,annoying those i know to do the right thing and vote,even if they dont know who,why or what for , use your vote, your voice, your right, spoil your vote if you want , just do something with it rather than just not be bothered.....I knwo in more recent times we've seen a larger number of younger people voting which is brilliant but there are still a generation of us out there who are very poorly informed in the world of politics and our voice in how things are done.

I don't want to sound like some activist for an uprising, i've already said I dont agree with any kind of armed revolt in regard to todays situation but a "war" of another kind,a war of words,a battle of wits a political war ,an uprising of will of voice to be heard, to be acknowledged to be listened too and acted upon ,for change,real change,
I think about those who came before us,those who brought about this "Republic of Ireland",James Connolly a Scottish born activist who galvanished the ordinary working (and unemployed) Irishman with his socialist and trade unionist background, forming the Irish Citizens Army (founded to protect Irish workers conditions), later fighting alongside the IRB & the Irish volunteers during the rising, a man whose influence over our nation was so powerful that they rathered him dead than jailed thus excuting him strapped to a chair,crippled from injury.....Patrick Pearse,Joseph Plunkett,Thomas Clarke,Eamon Ceannt,Thomas McDonagh,Sean McDermott, Michael Collins,Duffy,Barton,Duggan & Griffith,even that great shister De Velara ,and long before them Wolfe Tone, Daniel O'Connell, etc , our history has served up some great figures, men that make you feel proud to be Irish and what it means to be Irish ........ in recent times? save for some of our sports people, who has given us anything to feel proud of? Politically prehaps John Hume aprt from that who ,Haughey? Fitzgerald? Srping? Dukes?Reynolds?Ahern? Roche?Cowen? Kenny? Gilmore? Bruton? Rabbitte? Adams? Harney? yada yada yada etc etc ad nauseum.....

Over the course of the last 88 years everything that our nation was built on has been systematically dismantled brick by brick by the succession of immoral,unjust,corrupt feckers that "graced" the halls of power, and here we are today almost in tatters,bickering amongst ourselves whilst those reckless few who held the power and made the decisions walk free (and rich) in their millionaire lifestyles unaccountable for the suffering they've heaped on the "ordinary" people of Ireland.

I live in hope that from the ashes of this great debacle new leadership emerges,strong leadership with the sincerest best interests of Ireland as a whole, however I also fear that in the aftermath of Masstricht,Nice, Lisbon & the Euro we will never enjoy the prosperity & posterity we so deserve.

I hope that from this we engage with our younger generation going forward,that they learn from the past mistakes of our generation and those before us,that political ignorance is minimised and they can form good judgments,good choices,good decisions for the betterment of our nation and its people,ours & theirs only tools for "revolution" should be our/their voices,votes & choices.

We wouldn't be in this situation today had the law been used correctly i.e. to punish as well as protect those who betrayed Ireland & her children.

"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies,to be soveriegn & indefeasible"

Somewhere between the writting of those first lines and the cattle prod led 2nd Lisbon vote we lost our way.

There are a great many great Irishmen/women turning in their graves today.

Give me a break, Lisbon didn't force people to vote into power the top three people in the country because of their surnames.
You're really not helping with your Wolfie Smith nonsense and trying to divert attentiona and blame the Lisbon treaty for Irish problems. They're all home grown.

EarlERizer

Give me a break, Lisbon didn't force people to vote into power the top three people in the country because of their surnames.
You're really not helping with your Wolfie Smith nonsense and trying to divert attentiona and blame the Lisbon treaty for Irish problems. They're all home grown.

lol Wolfie Smith lol love it .... in regard to the rest of your little whine , can you tell me where it is i actually blame Lisbon on how people voted? or where i suggest people voted based on surname? or who it is i'm trying to divert attention from? or where i state that it's is solely the content of the Lisbon treaty that I blame for all that has gone wrong here? or indeed where I don't support the idea that the problems we're face aren't homegrown? I think I outlined my feelings on that in a previous post.We're collectively to blame for the problems we're faced with today but you cant deny that outside influences played their part,to do so is as ignorant as thinking that no blame lies with the Irish people.

....and to finish, I didn't set about writting on a forum in hope of helping anything or anyone, i'm here merely to give my opinion as I see fit,and to read the thoughts of others, if your here in search of hope ,help or a solution then I suggest your looking in the wrong place!! however,should you find the answer to it all here on boards.ie will you be sure to let us all know?

norrie rugger

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

What gets me most is that there has been NO proper protests AT ALL, even peaceful ... just a few ones with very small attendences

Where are the Irish people ?

The Irish people, in general, seem to realise that giving an image of an unstable country (ala Greece) will be the first step to a bail out. Protests will only send out the signals that Ireland, as a populace, can not stomach what is to come.
Regardless of what we all want/think, I believe that we all knew that it would be us, the Mr&Mrs Average Soap, who would pay for it.
We, deep down, know that we will take the brunt of this and are getting on with our lives, with as much dignity as possible. Trying to secure our own jobs/family security.
Protests that close down the capital, destabilise the economy will only add to our misery and the negative view that the bond markets hold us in. Regardless of how we feel about it, the bond markets are the people that we need to keep onside, at the moment.

New government required? Yes but has to be brought about very carefully.
The opposition are actually doing a good job, in this regard, at the moment.
They have been chipping away at the government fairly constantly to a point where there are FFers now calling for an election, in the form of Mary O'Rourke