Armed Revolt, Coup d'état Would you support it?

southsiderosie

buzzdroid wrote: »

a 2nd republic would have a number of beneficial effects such as

a) the banning of Fianna Fail and seizure of their assets.

b) the jailing of all the bankers and developers responsible for the meltdown

c) the jailing of Cowen, Lenihan and others on charges of high treason.
( execution would be counter productive and turn them in 1916 style "martyrs" )

The slate would wiped clean. Gombeens would never be allowed to run for a political position ever again ( that would be in the 2nd constitution in the form of various tests that one would need to pass in order to serve office)

Then we can talk to the creditors and renegotiate our debt.

We would , of course, withdraw from the Euro but remain part of the EU free trade area. Nah scrap that - withdraw from the EU entirely. Have some sort of Norway style EFTA trade agreement. That would allow us to rebuild our agri and fisheries sector.

So not only would you not be able to borrow to run the new government, but all of the old debt would have to be repaid in what would be a worthless Irish pound? Yeah, great plan.

buzzdroid

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

I do want a new democratically elected government.

I really don't want your military dictatorship though.

Military dictatorship is bound to happen for a certain period - several months - while the 2nd republic is allowed to bed down.

1 to 2 months tops ... while giving strong signals to the international markets that we are cleaning out the gombeens and are prepared to do business.

ascanbe

No need for violence. This government has to be gotten rid of asap; protest that will spark an election will suffice.
For whatever reason, whether sheer ignorance or something more sinister, this govt has joined the state to the hip of the nations banks, Anglo-Irish in particular, and have guaranteed that Ireland will collapse alongside these banks if the current policies are continued with.
The only hope for this country is that a general election is held quickly and that subsequently a FG/Labour govt, presuming FF aren't returned to power, which isn't entirely out of the question in this insane country, take the necessary measures.
They have to renounce/disown the bank guarantee; make it clear that this was a catastrophic policy persued by a corrupt government who were in the pocket of corrupt fraudsters i.e. those in charge of the banks, especially Anglo.
A thorough investigation must then be launched and those responsible, both bankers and politicians, must face justice if found to have acted unlawfully.
It must be made clear that Ireland is a state that will no longer stand for corruption and that those who choose to invest in it will be investing in a country that is not, as it will be if current policies are persued, crippled with unpayable debt and in which the words of our leaders can be believed.
In other words, a country worth investing in.

mike65

Armed revolt? Hmm would be quite good at that? I know the Provos, they know where the guns are and where to get them, the drug gangs tend to be well stocked up these days, shady East European mercenaries are cheap to hire and would find Ireland a less hostile environment than say Central Africa or the Caucauses.

Ah yes what could possibly go wrong?

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

So not only would you not be able to borrow to run the new government, but all of the old debt would have to be repaid in what would be a worthless Irish pound? Yeah, great plan.

Who says it would be "worthless"?

If we refuse to allow the Punt Nua to be traded and peg it to the Euro , as the Chinese do with their currency ( with regards to the dollar) , then market speculation simply cannot happen.

But this would always be a temporary situation as the 2nd republic is allowed to bed down.

th3 s1aught3r

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I'm too busy working and paying my bills to join an armed revolution.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working and paying 50-60% tax to pay for this bankers bailout ?

CorkMan

Can I be the one to assassinate Brian Cowen? I am handy with an S-1 Sniper Rifle with a beam on top.

southsiderosie

buzzdroid wrote: »

Who says it would be "worthless"?

If we refuse to allow the Punt Nua to be traded and peg it to the Euro , as the Chinese do with their currency ( with regards to the dollar) , then market speculation simply cannot happen.

But this would always be a temporary situation as the 2nd republic is allowed to bed down.

Market speculation can and does happen with a peg; the issue is the government has to have enough reserves to defend their currency. This is not a problem for the Chinese; it was for the Brits when Soros attacked the pound. In your hypothetical, unless Ireland pegged its currency at an extremely low-value rate vis-a-vis the euro (i.e. it was really REALLY weak), the markets would drain the national reserves within hours. But given how reliant Ireland is on imports for a lot of basics, a weak currency would be disastrous.

sligopark

buzzdroid wrote: »

withdraw from the EU entirely. Have some sort of Norway style EFTA trade agreement. That would allow us to rebuild our agri and fisheries sector.

this is this country's only salvation only the EU are intent on stealing our farming and fishing and condemning us to enslavement and poverty.



Micky why ask me not to post again?

CorkMan

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working and paying 50-60% tax to pay for this bankers bailout ?

TBH it was 60+ Percent tax in the 80's, and we came out. America, Britian, Germany are all making profits. I think we will come out before 2020 for sure.

Sticky_Fingers

southsiderosie wrote: »

What I suggested is a completely peaceful occupation of the streets around Leinster House, similar to the peaceful takeovers of the city centers launched by Eastern European young people against their governments. The sole purpose would be to force elections.

I'm not currently living in Ireland, and I'm not an Irish citizen, but I have both participated in and organized mass protests in my home country. I'm also living in Spain right now, where a massive general strike just took place yesterday. I am AMAZED at how passive the Irish public is in the face of what the government is doing. I'm not an advocate for an armed revolution, or even Greek-style chaos, but peaceful demonstration is a right in a democracy, and almost nobody is taking advantage of it.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. While I want a change in government and would support any peaceful action that would remove the current crop of idiots from the levers of power the rather sad fact about the Irish is that despite our image as being a pack of revolutionaries and fighters we are a self-centred nation who are terrified of rocking the boat in case we are the ones who fall out.

You will not see any major or effective protests this side of the budget because the majority of people will only cop on to the fact that they are being screwed when it really hits their own pockets. While we are all aware of the bank bailouts and squandering of the countries wealth the grazing masses will not fully comprehend its effects upon the country until its too late. I'm sorry to say that it probably is already too late and any protests or change in government will not alter the trajectory of the economy one iota, our goose is cooked. The time for protests was 2 years ago but most of the people didn't want to hear about it and anyone who said that the bank bailout would end in tears was either ignored by the general population or berated for being a pessimist and a fearmonger.

onlyrocknroll

buzzdroid wrote: »

Military dictatorship is bound to happen for a certain period - several months - while the 2nd republic is allowed to bed down.

1 to 2 months tops ... while giving strong signals to the international markets that we are cleaning out the gombeens and are prepared to do business.

Jesus, I'm reporting this thread.

Not to the mods, but to the f***ing army!! :pac:

cheesemaker

The FFDF has already started running guns from Tullamore to quash the rebellion.

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

Market speculation can and does happen with a peg; the issue is the government has to have enough reserves to defend their currency. This is not a problem for the Chinese; it was for the Brits when Soros attacked the pound. In your hypothetical, unless Ireland pegged its currency at an extremely low-value rate vis-a-vis the euro (i.e. it was really REALLY weak), the markets would drain the national reserves within hours. But given how reliant Ireland is on imports for a lot of basics, a weak currency would be disastrous.

fair point. that is a problem alright. do you have any idea how previous revolutions handled this problem?

i mean - we did , after all, have our own revolt in 1921/22. and americans did in 1776.

if currency exchange rates were such an obstacle then surely revolts would never have happened. but they have. repeatedly in history.

maybe , in light of this problem , we stay within the eurozone and the EU as part of this 2nd republic? would that work?

buzzdroid

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Jesus, I'm reporting this thread.

Not to the mods, but to the f***ing army!! :pac:

i'm guessing the army will probably join in if the "4 budgets" are going to destroy the country. there might be a tipping point. as what happened in Romania for example.

actually scrap that - the revolt simply cannot happen without the army and the gardai. they're going to get screwed like the rest of us because of the bankers.

sligopark

buzzdroid wrote: »

maybe , in light of this problem , we stay within the eurozone and the EU as part of this 2nd republic? would that work?

maybe if we simply swapped FF for EU dictatorship?

Oh sorry forgot FF sold us off to EU dictatorship

maringo

I'd say rotten eggs might be in order!:P

orourkeda

Stinicker wrote: »

The time has long since passed for action against Fianna Fail which has taken one of the best performing economies in the World and put us on a par with a debt ridden 3rd world country.

For 800 long years we fought British Rule, this government has overseen the greatest robbery of wealth from the working and middle classes since the Plantations of Ireland under the British Crown.

Fianna Fail has committed Treason against the people and must be removed from office and punished harshly. They cannot be allowed to get away with this. If Ireland was under British rule today and this was happening we would more than happy to rebel and fight for our rights. We must fight these Traitors and get them out when the system of checks and balances in our democracy and constitution have failed to protect the country from the level of economic pillage.

My family before me fought for our freedom and died in the process and seeing what is happening now I would be prepared to put my life on the line and fight to remove these treasonous criminals from office. I can't emigrate and any hopes of becoming successful in life have been destroyed by these criminals and Ireland is now in the same place as we were under British occupation.

Ireland needs you,

Are you man enough?

For 800 years someone else fought British Rule.

sligopark

orourkeda wrote: »

For 800 years someone else fought British Rule.

and then sold us off to banksters and the EU ...

classic

onlyrocknroll

Well I'm out to organise the counter revolution, but before I do may I just say...


Death to Tyrants


That refers to Fianna Fail as well as you lot. :pac:

buzzdroid

sligopark wrote: »

maybe if we simply swapped FF for EU dictatorship?

Oh sorry forgot FF sold us off to EU dictatorship

yup.. thats coming down the tracks. notice all those warblings by German politicians about our corp tax rate.


we have a choice - no democracy and just a little province of Outer Germania paying off debt to the Germans for the next 100 years thanks to Seanie Fitzpatrick - OR we have a 2nd republic. and Seanie and his chums in jail.

th3 s1aught3r

Its no wonder the Brits ruled us for so long, if this is the level of protest we are capable of :rolleyes:

mickydoomsux

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working and paying 50-60% tax to pay for this bankers bailout ?

Better that than having no job at all. As horrible as all this is, it's a nesscessary evil now. It could have all been avoided had anyone in the country used their head and shouted "STOP" but Saorise and Oisin needed to go to that expensive montessori, driven their every morning in their parents hire-purchased BMW X5 from their parents €350,000 ****box house because everything was all rosy in the Celtic Tiger garden and as long as "i gots mines" no one opened their mouth about people living their entire lives on the credit that is now being called in.

Nope, rather than seeing the simple writing on the wall of "what goes up must come down" and getting rid of FF when we had the chance back in 2007 because they were fueling it all, not with any malicious intent, but rather by their inactivity and light-touch governance we voted them back in because, hey, "i'm rich now that i can have 5 credit cards".

I have no love for FF, the bankers, the speculators or the developers but we "Joe Public" types need to stop acting like the perpetual victims in all of this. We were as bad as any of them during the past decade, the only difference was the scale of it.

buzzdroid

what if the "armed" rebellion was actually kicked off by the army and gardai?

that happened in romania. started off with peaceful protests - and then the army turned. the actual civilians involved didnt have guns. it was the ARMY that did the actual armed bit.

the might be a possibility. but it would have to get a HELL of a lot worse for that to happen.

sligopark

buzzdroid wrote: »

OR we have a 2nd republic. and Seanie and his chums in jail.

Buzz how would this country establish this second republic - would you put your trust in labour monkeys who also echoed our sell out to the EU and Banksters via the bailout?

where will the new politics begin?

sligopark

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Its no wonder the Brits ruled us for so long, if this is the level of protest we are capable of :rolleyes:

I am ashamed to say it but we would have been better off under the brits rather than the gombeen politicians that have controlled politics in this country since

buzzdroid

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I have no love for FF, the bankers, the speculators or the developers but we "Joe Public" types need to stop acting like the perpetual victims in all of this. We were as bad as any of them during the past decade, the only difference was the scale of it.

err.. excuse me? so what members of "joe public" had accounts in Anglo?

do you not GET IT yet? christ!

i despair.

southsiderosie

You don't need an armed revolution to change the government. Just do what every other country with a multi-party parliamentary system does - protest until the government falls.

th3 s1aught3r

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Better that than having no job at all. As horrible as all this is, it's a nesscessary evil now. It could have all been avoided had anyone in the country used their head and shouted "STOP" but Saorise and Oisin needed to go to that expensive montessori, driven their every morning in their parents hire-purchased BMW X5 from their parents €350,000 ****box house because everything was all rosy in the Celtic Tiger garden and as long as "i gots mines" no one opened their mouth about people living their entire lives on the credit that is now being called in.

Nope, rather than seeing the simple writing on the wall of "what goes up must come down" and getting rid of FF when we had the chance back in 2007 because they were fueling it all, not with any malicious intent, but rather by their inactivity and light-touch governance we voted them back in because, hey, "i'm rich now that i can have 5 credit cards".

I have no love for FF, the bankers, the speculators or the developers but we "Joe Public" types need to stop acting like the perpetual victims in all of this. We were as bad as any of them during the past decade, the only difference was the scale of it.

I agree with your point , its well made
But I have no intention of paying for the banks bailout with my tax
So what do I do ?

buzzdroid

sligopark wrote: »

Buzz how would this country establish this second republic - would you put your trust in labour monkeys who also echoed our sell out to the EU and Banksters via the bailout?

where will the new politics begin?

i would withdraw from the EU. immediately. it has utterly and totally corrupted our entire political process. we have to start afresh.

yes there would be even MORE pain, but we have to come to a decision - do WE as a nation control our destiny , or do the Germans?

Allowing the Germans do it has resulted in the current disaster.

Now if you believe that the Germans should control our country then you really dont believe in an independent Ireland - and yes, you might be right. It may well be BETTER in the long run to have Hans from Frankfurt running our economy.

But is that a good thing for your soul? Its a choice. Do we just give up on any idea of an "Irish nation"?

And we need to make that choice FAST. and now.