Armed Revolt, Coup d'état Would you support it?

mickydoomsux

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I agree with your point , its well made
But I have no intention of paying for the banks bailout with my tax
So what do I do ?

Leave the country and try and find another one that isn't using tax payers money to bail out it's banks i suppose.

orourkeda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Gn0e7kvTA

FouxDaFaFa

This thread is getting very messy.

To address the OP: no, an armed revolt is not the way to go. I think the idea put forward by southsiderosie is a good one. It's true, we do have a problem with passivity in this country. A very large peaceful protest would send a message. The only worry I would have is that (as is the case with a lot of peaceful protests) there would be elements present who want more "direct" action and will start setting things on fire/smashing windows to make their point heard and who will make people afraid to protest further.

As for a coup d'état, we cannot start thinking about a "new republic" until we ride out this recession. Re-configuring our governmental system and constitution would cripple us and make us completely powerless to come out of this. You think the stocks are low now? Wait until word got out that we were dissolving the republic.

We need a change of government with a strong leader (who, unfortunately I don't see) to make serious changes. I think large-scale protests and strikes would achieve this but I understand that people who are employed would be nervous about striking as their jobs are more important than ever.

th3 s1aught3r

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Leave the country and try and find another one that isn't using tax payers money to bail out it's banks i suppose.

Well I dont see why I should have to leave my country
The Irish nation can no longer be asked to pay for the greed of the rich by asking its citizens to either "pay up or leave"
Let them pay, let them leave

CorkMan

Can't paste the image directly, but check it out.

southsiderosie

buzzdroid wrote: »

i would withdraw from the EU. immediately. it has utterly and totally corrupted our entire political process. we have to start afresh.

yes there would be even MORE pain, but we have to come to a decision - do WE as a nation control our destiny , or do the Germans?

Allowing the Germans do it has resulted in the current disaster.

Now if you believe that the Germans should control our country then you really dont believe in an independent Ireland - and yes, you might be right. It may well be BETTER in the long run to have Hans from Frankfurt running our economy.

But is that a good thing for your soul? Its a choice. Do we just give up on any idea of an "Irish nation"?

And we need to make that choice FAST. and now.

The Germans will still own Ireland because it's their banks that did a lot of the lending that fuelled the boom. And if Ireland defaults, then the IMF will own you.

Look at it this way, who would you rather owe money to: your wealthy uncle Fritz who will lord it over you every year at xmas, but will lend to you when you really need it, or the loan shark down the street who will enjoy breaking your legs while charging exorbitant rates?

sligopark

CorkMan wrote: »

Can't paste the image directly, but check it out.

turns out he is a fat tired pale looking prick

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

The Germans will still own Ireland because it's their banks that did a lot of the lending that fuelled the boom. And if Ireland defaults, then the IMF will own you.

Look at it this way, who would you rather owe money to: your wealthy uncle Fritz who will lord it over you every year at xmas, but will lend to you when you really need it, or the loan shark down the street who will enjoy breaking your legs while charging exorbitant rates?

jaysus we are fcked arent we?

well said. you got it in one.

how come the Israelis never have this problem? why do we always end up being slaves to something? Irish DNA I guess.

Pete M.

If, and it's a big if, there is a protest movement here large enough to throw the Government and change the system we have in place, then it's likely to be accompanied by similar occurrences through out Europe anyway.

We're not in this alone. All the PIGs would take great strength from something like this happening. The institutions of the EU would come under severe pressure.
You think Greek or Spanish or English workers would not attempt similar if we pulled it off.

We shouldn't worry about what may happen after (except for that pre-emptive counter-revolutionary poster earlier:pac:)

The only way for it to happen is for everyone who is pissed off to get out on the street and get organised.

Just do it FFS

gizmo

sligopark wrote: »

Yes I would agree - if the army brought in:

On The street Execution for Treason that would include political banksterism, and those in jail for unprovoked murder, sexual predatorism, drug dealing on a non personal scale

the revoking of all TD status and pension

the outlawing of membership to all present political parties

immediate removeal from the country of non national criminals, romas, and immigrants without established reason for stay of removal

revoking of the Lisbon and Nice treaty sign up (as per first vote)

removal from the Euro on non establishment of agreement of bail out from the Euro bank and IMF without forced enslavery of Irish citizens

and the re-establishment of oath to the nation over bank or the EU

lets go!

Ladies and gentlemen of AH, I give you...the future leaders of our country! :rolleyes:

sligopark

southsiderosie wrote: »

The Germans will still own Ireland because it's their banks that did a lot of the lending that fuelled the boom. And if Ireland defaults, then the IMF will own you.

Look at it this way, who would you rather owe money to: your wealthy uncle Fritz who will lord it over you every year at xmas, but will lend to you when you really need it, or the loan shark down the street who will enjoy breaking your legs while charging exorbitant rates?

answer - simple default on bond holders and squeeze the EU to uphold the euro currency as it was cheap rates of lending allowed banks situated in Ireland wreck the Euro and now as a consequence they must rescue the same banks as a consequence - why should the ordinary Irish taxpayer to the detriment of their health care etc ?

sligopark

gizmo wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen of AH, I give you...the future leaders of our country! :rolleyes:

Humbled but thank you - Gizmo

Would love to take the credit but only saying what everyone else around me is saying

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

Look at it this way, who would you rather owe money to: your wealthy uncle Fritz who will lord it over you every year at xmas, but will lend to you when you really need it, or the loan shark down the street who will enjoy breaking your legs while charging exorbitant rates?

that has to be the most succint and most visual explanation of our current situation.


in all of the acres of coverage of the current crisis, and the hours and hours of talk about it on radio and tv - THAT statement above explains the situation extremely well.

thumbs up to you southsiderosie. now i'm beginning to understand Brian Lenihan - much as i will be hated for saying so.

christ - its an awful predicament. no matter what you do , you are utterly fubared.

th3 s1aught3r

there wont be any revolt in Ireland. Irish people are too busy living in the real world, watching the XFactor or the Apprentice, to worry about trivial things like the countrys future
FFS

CorkMan

gizmo wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen of AH, I give you...the future leaders of our country! :rolleyes:

Immediate removal of all Romas, now there is something i'd vote for.

Voodoomelon

I have it on good authority that the mere 40 personel that are being recruited in the East to the army this year are coming in to man the barracks when the budget comes out, because the trained personel of the army may well be out on the streets. The place is gonna go bananas!

mickydoomsux

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Well I dont see why I should have to leave my country
The Irish nation can no longer be asked to pay for the greed of the rich by asking its citizens to either "pay up or leave"
Let them pay, let them leave

The 'rich' are citizens as well.

gizmo

CorkMan wrote: »

Immediate removal of all Romas, now there is something i'd vote for.

Give Nick Griffin a shout so, I'm sure he'd be delighted to help you set up an Irish version of the BNP.

Sticky_Fingers

buzzdroid wrote: »

i would withdraw from the EU. immediately. it has utterly and totally corrupted our entire political process. we have to start afresh.

Our political system has been corrupt since the foundation of the state.

buzzdroid wrote: »

yes there would be even MORE pain, but we have to come to a decision - do WE as a nation control our destiny , or do the Germans?


Allowing the Germans do it has resulted in the current disaster.

Typical Irish response, its always someones else's fault. We made this mess by voting in the cute hoors that currently infest the Dail. We weren't giving out about Ze Germans when they were handing over big wads of cash to build roads and bridges.

buzzdroid wrote: »

Now if you believe that the Germans should control our country then you really dont believe in an independent Ireland - and yes, you might be right. It may well be BETTER in the long run to have Hans from Frankfurt running our economy.

But is that a good thing for your soul? Its a choice. Do we just give up on any idea of an "Irish nation"?

And we need to make that choice FAST. and now.

Sorry to say that we have already lost much of our independence when we entered the EU and even moreso when we decided to join the Euro. It may well have been a mistake to join, not for any notional sense of sovereignty or national pride but the fact that we could not be trusted to behave responsibly when we got the opportunity to access money are cheap rates of interest. We gorged ourselves on cheap credit (that if used wisely could have been the making of this country) and now that the party is over and we're expected to make good on the bill we whinge about the very people who let us in.

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

The Germans will still own Ireland because it's their banks that did a lot of the lending that fuelled the boom. And if Ireland defaults, then the IMF will own you.

one point - but those German banks were engaging in PRIVATE transactions with Anglo.


how does that get turned into a hit on the Irish taxpayer?


the only reason i can think of is that the Germans forced it on Ireland - so that their German bank bad decisions can be offloaded onto the stupid paddies. So that Ireland suffers the pain rather than Germany.


Because the paddies will just emigrate and never revolt.

Yeah, i'm back in the armed revolt camp.

jugger0

As long as i get harney, think of all our money shes spent on tubs of mayonnaise.

buzzdroid

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I have it on good authority that the mere 40 personel that are being recruited in the East to the army this year are coming in to man the barracks when the budget comes out, because the trained personel of the army may well be out on the streets. The place is gonna go bananas!

army on the streets? you can vouch for that? are your contacts credible?

southsiderosie

sligopark wrote: »

answer - simple default on bond holders and squeeze the EU to uphold the euro currency as it was cheap rates of lending allowed banks situated in Ireland wreck the Euro and now as a consequence they must rescue the same banks as a consequence - why should the ordinary Irish taxpayer to the detriment of their health care etc ?

That would destroy the EU, which frankly has bigger worries than the puny Irish or Greek economies. If Ireland defaults, Greece will surely default, and if there is mass panic that threatens an economy as large and unstable as Spain's - which accounts for more that 10% of the Eurozone's GDP, the whole system will be ****ed. Little Ireland will take down 1/3 of the global economy because in 2008 its leaders thought it was more important to protect their banker and developer friends than the public interest...and the public showed no willingness to defend their own interests themselves. Talk about a butterfly effect...

It is really a sad and scary situation.

CorkMan

The year 2002:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CXH-QbQAK0

The year 2010:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPy4crWuCA

southsiderosie

buzzdroid wrote: »

one point - but those German banks were engaging in PRIVATE transactions with Anglo.


how does that get turned into a hit on the Irish taxpayer?


the only reason i can think of is that the Germans forced it on Ireland - so that their German bank bad decisions can be offloaded onto the stupid paddies. So that Ireland suffers the pain rather than Germany.


Because the paddies will just emigrate and never revolt.

Yeah, i'm back in the armed revolt camp.

What? YOUR GOVERNMENT agreed to the bank guarantees. They also refused to engage in any oversight of the banks. Spain's economy is having terrible problems right now, but due to oversight regs, their banking sector is in good shape, so the government has had far more leeway to invest in public infrastructure and maintain some jobs at least.

The Germans are heavily invested all over Europe because they save a lot and their economy is export-oriented - just like the Chinese.

buzzdroid

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Sorry to say that we have already lost much of our independence when we entered the EU and even moreso when we decided to join the Euro. It may well have been a mistake to join, not for any notional sense of sovereignty or national pride but the fact that we could not be trusted to behave responsibly when we got the opportunity to access money are cheap rates of interest. We gorged ourselves on cheap credit (that if used wisely could have been the making of this country) and now that the party is over and we're expected to make good on the bill we whinge about the very people who let us in.

so in summary, your view is that the Irish Republic , as an independent nation, is OVER. and we'd better get used to it.


yes - i concur. to paraphrase David McWilliams, your stance is "facing up to reality". i just ask - is this a reality that we want? or do we need to create a new reality.

if you are happy with the Germans ruling Ireland for the next 100 years, then fine. but are you truely happy about this? that is the question.

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

What? YOUR GOVERNMENT agreed to the bank guarantees. They also refused to engage in any oversight of the banks. Spain's economy is having terrible problems right now, but their banking sector is on good shape, so the government has had far more leeway to invest in public infrastructure and maintain some jobs at least.

The Germans are heavily invested all over Europe because they save a lot and their economy is export-oriented - just like the Chinese.

i just pointed out that they were private transactions between private banks.

in a free market this is allowed to happen. what is becoming increasingly clear is that these bad loans are being bailed out by the Irish taxpayer , in order to save German banks. In other words - WE are going to pay for reckless lending from the Germans. Because we're a bunch of paddies who are thick and dont matter to the Germans.

Sticky_Fingers

The results of that poll are mental, it's nearly neck and neck. Its depressing to think that the government has failed so badly in their duty to the nation that so many people would support their overthrow by force.

sligopark

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Typical Irish response, its always someones else's fault. We made this mess by voting in the cute hoors that currently infest the Dail.

buzzdroid wrote: »

one point - but those German banks were engaging in PRIVATE transactions with Anglo.


how does that get turned into a hit on the Irish taxpayer?

Because the paddies will just emigrate and never revolt.

Yeah, i'm back in the armed revolt camp.

southsiderosie wrote: »

That would destroy the EU, which frankly has bigger worries than the puny Irish or Greek economies. If Ireland defaults, Greece will surely default, and if there is mass panic that threatens an economy as large and unstable as Spain's - which accounts for more that 10% of the Eurozone's GDP, the whole system will be ****ed. Little Ireland will take down 1/3 of the global economy because in 2008 its leaders thought it was more important to protect their banker and developer friends than the public interest...and the public showed no willingness to defend their own interests themselves. Talk about a butterfly effect...

It is really a sad and scary situation.

Not if we had defaulted in the beginning and invoked the bond holders and EU gamble risk loss - f*ck them

The EU needs unzipped - it robbed us of our fisheries and small farmholdings and enslaved us toward factory prostitution in the boom via the Dail Junket and pension jockeys

buzzdroid

southsiderosie wrote: »

That would destroy the EU, which frankly has bigger worries than the puny Irish or Greek economies. If Ireland defaults, Greece will surely default, and if there is mass panic that threatens an economy as large and unstable as Spain's - which accounts for more that 10% of the Eurozone's GDP, the whole system will be ****ed. Little Ireland will take down 1/3 of the global economy because in 2008 its leaders thought it was more important to protect their banker and developer friends than the public interest...and the public showed no willingness to defend their own interests themselves. Talk about a butterfly effect...

It is really a sad and scary situation.

nail on the head.

it would destroy the EU project. so now we're expected to pay for reckless lending from the EU for the next 100 years.


WE can change things with a 2nd republic. outside of the EU. and independent again.

our fling with the EU is going to come to an end.

i stand by my "withdraw from the EU" idea. it is utterly corrupt and incapable of imposing any sort of good governance on our country.