Armed Revolt, Coup d'état Would you support it?

SeaFields

Deleted User wrote: »

Current government was democratically elected. Just vote them out.

Just remember that when people say this government is democratically elected, their current working majority is based on denying the people of three constituencies their democratic right to full representation in the Dáil.

Wagon

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah, no doubt the dream is to live in a country where there are armed revolts against democratically elected Governments instead of just waiting the year or so to vote them out.

Well lets take away the guns and then do what the greeks and the icelandics did. actually stand up and shout, demand some answers etc... But that still won't ****in happen.

senordingdong

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah, no doubt the dream is to live in a country where there are armed revolts against democratically elected Governments instead of just waiting the year or so to vote them out.

Just becasue they were elected democratically, does not mean they are free from corruption.

Mark200

Wagon wrote: »

Well lets take away the guns and then do what the greeks and the icelandics did. actually stand up and shout, demand some answers etc... But that still won't ****in happen.

You do realise the Greek protests made things many times worse don't you?

Mark200

senordingdong wrote: »

Just becasue they were elected democratically, does not mean they are free from corruption.

My point being that it's pretty ridiculous that the same people who want to be trusted with guns, killing people, and installing a new Government can't even recognise the significant difference between today's situation and British rule.

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

Just becasue they were elected democratically, does not mean they are free from corruption.

Then stop electing them.

Representative democracy is such a simple concept. How can so many people just not get it?

th3 s1aught3r

Its fairly obvious that the Irish political system is corrupt and rotton to the core
How will having another election solve this ?
It wont change the system, only a revolution would have that opportunity

senordingdong

Deleted User wrote: »

Then stop electing them.

Representative democracy is such a simple concept. How can so many people just not get it?

I didn't ****ing elect them!

Mark200 wrote:

My point being that it's pretty ridiculous that the same people who want to be trusted with guns, killing people, and installing a new Government can't even recognise the significant difference between today's situation and British rule.

Yep, don't think a coup would be helpful or even practical, but I do agree that we need to start over from scratch.

blaze1

i would support this... but who would run the country down the toilet then??

i do think that a mass downing of tools (something the french are good at) would be better in the long run, to let the TD's know that we wont stand for there sh*te anymore

Mr Benevolent

Deleted User wrote: »

Then stop electing them.

Representative democracy is such a simple concept. How can so many people just not get it?

Ahhhh that's cute. Do you seriously think the politcian you so carefully give your precious vote to cares an iota about you or your wishes?

Look, it's simple. We elect the most popular wealthy person in our geographic region. That person then does what his superior tells him to do. The Civil Service actually run the country.

Do people seriously think that electing the most popular wealthy person is democracy? If so, I suggest researching Switzerland's method of governance. THAT'S democracy in action. We have nothing even approximating democracy.

southsiderosie

Confab wrote: »

Ahhhh that's cute. Do you serious think the politcian you so carefully give your precious vote to cares an iota about you or your wishes?

Look, it's simple. We elect the most popular wealthy person in our geographic region. That person then does what his superior tells him to do. The Civil Service actually run the country.

I'm touched that you think democracy works.

If the civil service runs the country, why is the government cutting their wages?

Confab

Confab wrote: »

Look, it's simple. We elect the most popular wealthy person in our geographic region.

So stop doing it.

Durrrrrr.

Lux23

I wouldn't mind a few riots but an armed revolt is taking it a bit far. I still believe in democracy and any regime installed by violence is probably going to be a nasty one.

Not only do I vote No, as a member of the DF I'd be obliged to take up arms against any illegitimate government change attempt.

It'd be a black day, one I'd weep for, but to defend my country I'd stop the OP and all who stand with him, with lethal force.

buzzdroid

Deleted User wrote: »

Not only do I vote No, as a member of the DF I'd be obliged to take up arms against any illegitimate government change attempt.

It'd be a black day, one I'd weep for, but to defend my country I'd stop the OP and all who stand with him, with lethal force.

thats why any "armed revolt" would fail .. nobody would have the heart to attack members of the defence forces. it just wouldnt happen. its fair to say that pretty much everyone knows someone who is in the FCA , or who served in Lebanon or Chad.. be it neighbours son, or uncle, or distant cousin or whatever. The army is definitely part of the fabric of our society.

more likely scenario would be mass peaceful protest with the DF changing sides. ( but thats only if things got REALLY REALLY bad.. we're talking Romania levels of bad.. )

Stercus Accidit

Get the Irish army on side and the country will be taken in a day, what loyalty to Cowen do they have? They should defend Ireland and its people, not individuals in suits.

The whole circle jerk of Irish politicians are protecting each other and will never allow an investigation or prosecution of their own for the precedent it would set, and ruin themselves.

Berty the minister for finance got away without having a bank account as an excuse FFS, charges of treason and jail for the lot of them, and all assets gained through corruption seized and returned to the Irish people.

In England any discretion and the party forces you to resign in disgrace, here your own brass neck and the backing of your fellow party members ensures you will weather the storm, as you would do for any of them, if they are caught doing exactly the same thing.

Wouldn't it be lovely to force a general election and have them more regularily than they have them today? Democracy here is more about waiting it out and putting on a smile when the time is right, and the long wait in between is when you grab what you can.

buzzdroid

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Get the Irish army on side and the country will be taken in a day.

The whole circle jerk of Irish politicians are protecting each other and will never allow an investigation or prosecution of their own for the precedent it would set, and ruin themselves.

Berty the minister for finance got away without having a bank account as an excuse FFS, charges of treason and jail for the lot of them, and all assets gained through corruption seized and returned to the Irish people.

In England any discretion and the party forces you to resign in disgrace, here your own brass neck and the backing of your fellow party members ensures you will weather the storm, as you would do for any of them, if they are caught doing exactly the same thing.

Wouldn't it be lovely to force a general election and have them more regularily than they have them today. Democracy here is more about waiting it out and putting on a smile when the time is right, and the long wait in between is when you grab what you can.

this is a serious question - what is the oath that members of the defence forces take when being commissioned into the army?

i would guess that it would have something to do with "upholding and defending the constitution of the Republic"

might that be the trigger ?- when the government is no longer upholding the constitution? what would be the tipping point for the army?

twinytwo

IvySlayer wrote: »

No, violence will not solve anything. It will just give a reason for the Government to arrest and lock people up. Gardaí will clash with protestors resulting no go areas etc etc.

Peaceful protesting is the only way to go. If 100,00 people or more sat in front of the Daíl refusing to move until something is sorted that would certainly get some attention.

lets be honest violence solves everything... peacefull protest wont do jack **** in this country the government dont listen they dont care so long as they get their big fat pension. burn them out of their homes and then they might wake up...

And to the person who said who do we replace them with?.. i could do a 10 times better job. there are tons of people who could but in the past the only way to get anywhere in irsih politics was to conform to the way things were done.

buzzdroid

i've found an oath of allegiance over here - refers to the reserve DF :

http://www.62infantry.com/FAQ.shtml#What_is_the_Oath


Extract from: DEFENCE ACT, 1954
I, ............................................................................................................................, do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever.

Stercus Accidit

buzzdroid wrote: »

this is a serious question - what is the oath that members of the defence forces take when being commissioned into the army?

i would guess that it would have something to do with "upholding and defending the constitution of the Republic"

might that be the trigger ?- when the government is no longer upholding the constitution? what would be the tipping point for the army?

It would probably destroy the country if we had an armed revolution in all seriousness though, money would be pulled out, businesses. I'd like to see a general election forced to occur though, democracy once every 5 years means 4 years of pretty much authocracy. The army is the only thing stopping people walking in and forcing a general election and if they were on side they could force that general election.

SeaFields

If it did happen i wonder would the EU rapid response thingy they set up come in to keep the peace?

Anglea Merkel rolling up Kildare street in a tiger:eek:

SeaFields

buzzdroid wrote: »

Extract from: DEFENCE ACT, 1954............................................................................................................................, do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever.

Even the stonecutters?!

buzzdroid

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

It would probably destroy the country if we had an armed revolution in all seriousness though, money would be pulled out, businesses. I'd like to see a general election forced to occur though, democracy once every 5 years means 4 years of pretty much authocracy. The army is the only thing stopping people walking in and forcing a general election and if they were on side they could force that general election.

but even if the army stepped in and forced an election (at gunpoint) - that very act could have very troubling knock on effects for the economy. businesses would indeed flee the country.


as i said above - it could only happen if we reach Romanian levels - where we have absolutely nothing to lose. i.e. the businesses have already fled..

buzzdroid

SeaFields wrote: »

If it did happen i wonder would the EU rapid response thingy they set up come in to keep the peace?

Anglea Merkel rolling up Kildare street in a tiger:eek:

the Germany army would probably be greeted as liberators the way we're heading.

and no - i'm not joking.

twinytwo

buzzdroid wrote: »

but even if the army stepped in and forced an election (at gunpoint) - that very act could have very troubling knock on effects for the economy. businesses would indeed flee the country.


as i said above - it could only happen if we reach Romanian levels - where we have absolutely nothing to lose. i.e. the businesses have already fled..

They are already doing that and the yanks are just looking for a good excuse to pull out.. the country is up to its eyeballs in debt getting worse by the day

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Silgopark, don't post in this thread again.

sligopark wrote: »

this is this country's only salvation only the EU are intent on stealing our farming and fishing and condemning us to enslavement and poverty.



Micky why ask me not to post again?

sligopark wrote: »

maybe if we simply swapped FF for EU dictatorship?

Oh sorry forgot FF sold us off to EU dictatorship

sligopark wrote: »

and then sold us off to banksters and the EU ...

classic

sligopark wrote: »

Buzz how would this country establish this second republic - would you put your trust in labour monkeys who also echoed our sell out to the EU and Banksters via the bailout?

where will the new politics begin?

sligopark wrote: »

I am ashamed to say it but we would have been better off under the brits rather than the gombeen politicians that have controlled politics in this country since

sligopark wrote: »

turns out he is a fat tired pale looking prick

etc

Sligopark Banned.

Jeboa Safari

An armed uprising would destroy this country, make things way worse than they are now. The last thing we need.

Adamisconfused

"Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory."

Boards.ie doesn't constitute patiently waiting and neither is it a prime example of secrecy. I think "they" might notice.

th3 s1aught3r

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

An armed uprising would destroy this country, make things way worse than they are now. The last thing we need.

That horse has already bolted

Mark200

buzzdroid wrote: »

this is a serious question - what is the oath that members of the defence forces take when being commissioned into the army?

i would guess that it would have something to do with "upholding and defending the constitution of the Republic"

might that be the trigger ?- when the government is no longer upholding the constitution? what would be the tipping point for the army?

And you think fighting to disrupt the democratic process is upholding the constitution? :rolleyes: