Armed Revolt, Coup d'état Would you support it?

fontanalis

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah! it will be more like this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nPIokYZmNY

You're giving them too much credit.

foxinsox

EarlERizer wrote: »

Most if not all of your points have come up at some stage throughout this thread, have a read through all 16 pages .

I like this one...
What about the Constitution?
Do we just make up a new one?
I thought a lot of work and lives went into the first one.

Alot of work & lives did go into the constitution,however the current regime seem to have forgotten this themselves,weren't we practically frog marched back to the polling booths on the Lisbon treaty? a treaty they didnt "fully understand" themselves.Our unelected leader and his bunch of cohorts saw fit to cattle prod us down a road they hadn't a clue to where it was leading ... or did they?

We're hardly going to come up with a solution on a forum, the opposition parties cant even give us a convincing enough spin to rally us all in a call for change...and quite frankily none of them seem up to the job anyway.

:mad:

I did read all the thread (while you were listening to music and waiting to win the Lotto ) and I must admit it hurt my eyes and some of the comments scared me...

"Our unelected leader" - It seems to me the first one discreetly legged it! Brian Cowen was the next in line. As far as I know that is how the government works according to the rules of democracy. It will/can be changed at the next general election.

Lisbon Treaty - I agree with you, in my opinion it was a joke... get one result and then decide not to like it so everyone back to the voting booths! Although I'm not sure that The Lisbon Treaty is to blame for our financial woes.

"Solution on a forum" - but haven't we got 126 people ready to take up arms?

I get your point, I don't see an alternative in any of the other parties either. I did like an earlier post stating something along the lines of:

we are where we are - moaning isn't going to produce money!

what can we do - we have to do something ie: taxes etc..any government will have to do this to stabalise the country.

Violence would just create a very large mess...

Just my 2c eh.. can't afford 2c!

weldoninhio

I hate the "you voted them in" argument. The Irish voting system is a joke. Voting for a party rather than a leader, if 99% of constituents vote none of the above and 1% vote for a jackass, the jackass gets elected. How is that the will of the people??

Also @post 140, the guy with the cement lorry did not ram, or attempt to drive into a public building. He slowly pulled up to the gate and parked the truck. But never let the truth..... And while his protest may not get rid of the 3 million he owes, it highlights that if you owe E300 million the government will bail you out, but if you owe E3 the government will screw you.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

I hate the "you voted them in" argument.

If you don't like the options, provide your own. If the majority ignore your option, tough sh*t, it's the will of the majority.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't like the options, provide your own. If the majority ignore your option, tough sh*t, it's the will of the majority.

Majority?? In what world is 1% the majority against 99% as per my argument?? Maybe you should get a job in Government or as head of a bank.

Well, if 99% of people are apathetic, then they deserve the extremist.

Evil flourishes when good people do nothing.

Fr0g

May 24, 2007 General Election Results

Total Electorate = 3,110,914
FF First Pref Votes = 858,565

27.6% of the electorate voted for FF

Hardly a majority

melekalikimaka

Stinicker wrote: »

So you beleive that they should be allowed go scot free? You and your thinking is what has allowed things to get out of hand. People must wake up and realise that Fianna Fail must be made to pay.

Do you think it was wrong for the IRA to fight the British Army in the War of Independence?

someones beein sniffing gluen again

Mark200

Fr0g wrote: »

May 24, 2007 General Election Results

Total Electorate = 3,110,914
FF First Pref Votes = 858,565

27.6% of the electorate voted for FF

Hardly a majority

But we work on proportional representation, not direct voting like you're implying. People who put FF as second, third preferences etc are still voting for them.

southsiderosie

I honestly do not understand all the calls for armed protest. Do you not understand how your government works? Put enough pressure on them via continuous mass democratic protest, and they will fall - just like in every other European democracy with multi-party parliamentary systems.

If you can't get enough people to support sustained peaceful protest against the government, how would you get enough support for an armed rebellion?

Finally, an armed rebellion would do more to destroy Ireland, which is completely dependent on international bond markets for the day-to-day running of the country, than Fianna Fail ever could. After one day of chaos in Ecuador, their interest rates jumped significantly; Ireland is already over 6%, and armed revolt would probably take it to double digits.

Jeboa Safari

Deleted User wrote: »

The quickest way to destroy the current regime (governments ruled over by banksters) would be to simply stop borrowing money, if enough prople stopped usnig credit cards, taking out car loans etc, the whole system would collapse very quickly - or should I say quicker than it is already collapsing.

1st of November could be an interesting day.

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face

andrew cross

a sourse in the justice dept told me extra gardai are been trained up on riot control many more than usual so the government has made plans just in case of unrest after the budget

Fr0g

Mark200 wrote: »

But we work on proportional representation, not direct voting like you're implying. People who put FF as second, third preferences etc are still voting for them.

I realise that, and they got a higher proportion than any other party. I am merely pointing out that it is a relatively small percentage of the country as a whole and therefore not a majority in that sense. What annoys me is that little more than a quarter of the adult population can ruin the country for the rest of us. And 22-24% still don't get it.

DHYNZY

I'm upset I came in so late on this thread. No way I'm going to read 17 pages, but in short, NO, I will not condone taking up arms. The worst thing imaginable for Ireland right now is a Greek attitude and taking to the streets rioting. If you want to vote the current government out then do it at the next general election.

If you want Ireland to be the embarrassment of the modern world, scare off ALL potential investors to increase employment, then take to the streets.

It is an absolutely ridiculous idea to even suggest an armed revolt is an answer to this problem.

This isn't 1916. The circumstances between then and now are so far apart that this thread and the 'my family before me fought and died' argument is almost laughable.

But the fact that even 10% of the people who voted YES to taking up arms weren't trolling is frightening.

SeaFields

andrew cross wrote: »

a sourse in the justice dept told me extra gardai are been trained up on riot control many more than usual so the government has made plans just in case of unrest after the budget

I have two buddies who are Gardai and both of which have recently trained with the public order unit. Might be coincidence or it could indeed by preparation for any unrest after the next budget. Interesting times ahead.

EarlERizer

weldoninhio wrote: »

I hate the "you voted them in" argument. The Irish voting system is a joke. Voting for a party rather than a leader, if 99% of constituents vote none of the above and 1% vote for a jackass, the jackass gets elected. How is that the will of the people??

Also @post 140, the guy with the cement lorry did not ram, or attempt to drive into a public building. He slowly pulled up to the gate and parked the truck. But never let the truth..... And while his protest may not get rid of the 3 million he owes, it highlights that if you owe E300 million the government will bail you out, but if you owe E3 the government will screw you.

Turns out the "Anglo Avenger" aint such the hero people were to ready to make him,if this mornings tabloid reporting is anything to go by! but atleast he made a point n gave people something to think about....imagine if everyone took their cars,trucks,vans,tractors whatever and parked up around the quays n just left them there n protest marched threw town.....or park up on the M50 n other major routes ,bring the place to a complete stop ....the resources arent there to deal with disruption on that scale....im talking en masse....real people power....but what real change would it achieve? like i said earlier there's no much of an alternative available to us,they're all as bad as eachother in terms of competence or lack there of!

EarlERizer

SeaFields wrote: »

I have two buddies who are Gardai and both of which have recently trained with the public order unit. Might be coincidence or it could indeed by preparation for any unrest after the next budget. Interesting times ahead.

I dont think its coincidental at all, i think it's a clear sign that governments are preparing for an expected public demonstration of anger,fear,desperation...im sure if more of us knew gardai or defence forces personal we'd probably be able to tell of simular stories.....or it could just be people stirring it up, we're at a time right now were peoples sensitivities are high,propaganda is believed & dismissed in equal measure.....unfortunately like everything else that's gone on we just have to wait and see how it all unfolds and then see if we as individuals were right in thinking how we thought on certain things.

There have been many who were dismissed as scaremongoring, cranks,doomsdayers etc but over the last couple of years events are starting to reflect just what they were trying to warn us of.....

....is it true that the sheeple will only wake up to it all when its too late altogether?

Scary thought.....makes me nervous as hell!!

Fr0g

DHYNZY wrote: »

If you want to vote the current government out then do it at the next general election.

The problem as I see it is that waiting for an election is exactly what has destroyed this country.

It has given the moneyed elite (bankers, developers, politicians etc.) time to transfer the entire cost of their greed corruption and incompetence onto the taxpayer.

And they have done it in full view.

Tabloids have had the "army trainin teh be vishiss f*kers tew deh peepil" since last year. Riot control is part of the curriculum, it's nothing new.

This thread reminds me of those "bank run" threads a few weeks back.

southsiderosie

DHYNZY wrote: »

I'm upset I came in so late on this thread. No way I'm going to read 17 pages, but in short, NO, I will not condone taking up arms. The worst thing imaginable for Ireland right now is a Greek attitude and taking to the streets rioting. If you want to vote the current government out then do it at the next general election.

Why should people wait for the next election? Why not push for a new government now? At least let people decide.

DHYNZY wrote: »

If you want Ireland to be the embarrassment of the modern world, scare off ALL potential investors to increase employment, then take to the streets.

You don't think Ireland isn't already an embarrassment? Southern European countries can't believe the public is rolling over on the bank bailouts and government cuts, and Northern European countries cannot believe that the government stood by while credit poured into the country and did nothing to regulate the banks or moderate what was obviously out-of-control growth. Ireland's reputation is already shattered; the question now is, what should the road to recovery look like? At a minimum, that road should not include anyone who is in the current government.

DHYNZY wrote: »

It is an absolutely ridiculous idea to even suggest an armed revolt is an answer to this problem.

I agree that armed protest isn't the answer, but I strongly disagree that people should not be out protesting. Enough is enough.

Jeboa Safari

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why should people wait for the next election? Why not push for a new government now? At least let people decide.



You don't think Ireland isn't already an embarrassment? Southern European countries can't believe the public is rolling over on the bank bailouts and government cuts, and Northern European countries cannot believe that the government stood by while credit poured into the country and did nothing to regulate the banks or moderate what was obviously out-of-control growth. Ireland's reputation is already shattered; the question now is, what should the road to recovery look like? At a minimum, that road should not include anyone who is in the current government.



I agree that armed protest isn't the answer, but I strongly disagree that people should not be out protesting. Enough is enough.

Be better to let the current government make the cuts in this budget, then have an election after that. Having an election before this years budget won't change anything, the changes are going to have to be made. And whatever about the country being an embarrassment, scaring off potential investment would be stupid.

gizmo

Hypothetical situation...

A general election is called due to large scale peaceful protesting.
Fianna Fáil win said election.
Then what?

I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of those who complain about the "they didn't like the first Lisbon result so they just sent us back to the polls" issue. :pac:

gonedrinking

EarlERizer wrote: »

Turns out the "Anglo Avenger" aint such the hero people were to ready to make him,if this mornings tabloid reporting is anything to go by!

yeah was reading he is a property developer who owes anglo 3.5 million, what a joke, people like him are the reason we are in this mess

mrDerek

thank god the OP isnt in ****ing charge of this country

guy 1: "hey you know what we havent had in a good while"

guy 2: "no what"

guy 3: "a good civil war, that oughta sort this economy out"

foxinsox

Lads, it's saturday night, what's happening?

Is this Coup thing happening or what?

A girl has got to plan...

I'm trying to decide what to wear and like it does make a major difference...

Coup or Lillies?

Decisions Decisions...

I'm guessing it's not happening...

DHYNZY

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why should people wait for the next election? Why not push for a new government now? At least let people decide.

I think if the majority want a general election then there should be a general election. I personally don't see what use a change in government would do right now, I don't see what Kenny or Gilmore and their parties have to offer above what Brian Lenihan can. It would do more damage than good in my honest opinion.

southsiderosie wrote: »

You don't think Ireland isn't already an embarrassment? Southern European countries can't believe the public is rolling over on the bank bailouts and government cuts, and Northern European countries cannot believe that the government stood by while credit poured into the country and did nothing to regulate the banks or moderate what was obviously out-of-control growth. Ireland's reputation is already shattered; the question now is, what should the road to recovery look like? At a minimum, that road should not include anyone who is in the current government.

This isn't a history lesson where retrospect is valued, which Irish people sometimes seem to love to dwell on at the expense of progress. Ireland's reputation is not shattered, and its negative comments like that that will inevitably hurt our reputation on international markets. You only have to look at whats happening with the torys in England to know that EVERYWHERE in Europe will be slashed and burned this year. But in Ireland we love to make a circus of it. And I never once suggested that our future is best served by the current FF government.

southsiderosie wrote: »

I agree that armed protest isn't the answer, but I strongly disagree that people should not be out protesting. Enough is enough.

I'm glad that most people see armed revolt is not the answer. I never suggested protesting isn't a worthwhile activity. I've been to a couple of protests myself over the year I think it shows a healthy engagement in politics on a national level. Its great to see the people out demanding to be listened to.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The quickest way to destroy the current regime (governments ruled over by banksters) would be to simply stop borrowing money, if enough prople stopped usnig credit cards, taking out car loans etc, the whole system would collapse very quickly - or should I say quicker than it is already collapsing.

1st of November could be an interesting day.

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face

Not really, what's better, decades of debt slavery or a new start with a new financial model!

DHYNZY

foxinsox wrote: »

Coup or Lillies?

Decisions Decisions...

Haha.. go military chic, just in case.

Jeboa Safari

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really, what's better, decades of debt slavery or a new start with a new financial model!

We'd be starting from a point where we have no money, a collapsed country and where nobody else trusts us.
What financial model do you have in mind?

Jeboa Safari

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

We'd be starting from a point where we have no money, a collapsed country and where nobody else trusts us.
What financial model do you have in mind?

One that has a system of stability such as full reserve banking, it forces banks to only lend "real" money. It would need to be a global change not just an Irish one. Most countries in the world are screwed because of the current system and need rapid and consistant growth to repay the debts, that simply isn't going to happen, there arn't enough resources on the planet to allow such levels of growth.