Dispute with landlord - advice needed

lisasimps

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice in relation to a dispute I am having with my landlord.

I came across a suitable property on Daft, and had been emailing the property owner for more details. I have a dog, so first thing was to see if she would allow the dog in the property. She agreed so I arranged a viewing of the house. As The Daughter lives in Dublin, it was arranged that her mother would show me the property.

At that first viewing I should have known things would end in disaster! The Mother repeatedly told me that she was house proud, and her children always had to scrub their houses when she was visiting. She seemed to think that the house would still be her house while I was renting. She also told me how she hated dogs, and that they're 'smelly old things'. I'm a dog groomer so I can guarantee that my dog doesn't smell!! She kept going on about how she hated dogs and if she had her way a dog wouldn't be allowed in the house. I let her know that I had previously rented with my dog and that she's no trouble, that she also comes to work with me (and I work an average of 13 hours a day as I have a new business) so the dog would only be there to sleep, and even at that she sleeps in a crate (a type of cage for dogs).

At this viewing The Mother also repeatedly spoke badly of her two previous tenants, and told me that she refused to return one of their deposits. Alarm bells were ringing then!!

After the viewing I went to see a few other properties but nothing suited, so I made an offer to the property owner The Daughter, and she accepted it. On the day I was signing the lease and moving in, The Mother was commenting on the garden fence that her husband had painted. She was insisting that he come out again and repaint it, as she said 'I couldn't be looking out at that the whole time, its a mess'. I made the point that she wouldnt be looking out at it, I would. I said that I'm more than happy with the way the fence is, but if she must have it repainted, would she be sure to let me know in advance, as I would be living alone and would be nervous if people were coming and going. She agreed.

The Mother also commented on how she wanted to come back again with a plumber to look at the boiler and reseal the shower. Again, I said that was fine with me as long as she gave me notice and I would arrange to be here at the same time. I'd find it unnerving to think of someone in my home while i'm not there, and I have some valuable bits and pieces that I'd like to put away before someone calls.

When I was asked to sign the lease, it didnt have a clause in it to keep a pet (although I have confirmation via email from the property owner). I asked could I wait to sign an amended lease and was told that they couldnt hand over the key without me signing something, and that they would come back during the week with an amended lease. I handed over the deposit and first months rent, and signed the temporary lease.

I didnt hear anything fromThe Mother during that week, so on Saturday I text her asking could we arrange a time to meet on Sunday to sign the amended lease and could she provide a hoover and mop and bucket for the house so I could keep it clean. She phoned me back and said she had been in touch with a plumber but he had not yet given her a time and date to call. She said she would bring all the stuff when she was coming with the plumber. I said that was great, and again, could she let me know in advance and I would meet her there.

So that was that. Then Monday morning I got a call from an irate Mother who said she had just come from the house, that the place was a mess, she would have to get industrial cleaners out, and that she was giving me one week notice to leave! I was in shock as it was so out of the blue. she was screaming on the phone and wouldn't let me speak. I repeatedly asked her to let me speak, and eventually she stopped talking. I told her how it was completely against the rules to enter the property without my consent, and the place is very much not a mess. She continually interrupted me and was being irrational. I told her that if I was to leave I want my deposit and full first month rent returned.

She was saying that Im keeping loads of dogs on the property because there were loads of dog beds in the house, which there are but they're only there because they were in my van from work and I but them in the house while unpacking and hadn't yet brought them back to work. I was only in the property a week at this stage, and as I said I work 7am-7pm Monday Wed and Fri, 7am - 9.30pm Tues and Thurs, and 12pm-6pm Saturday, so I had barely unpacked never mind have time to mess the place up!! My dad and sister had called for dinner Saturday evening so I had the place tidy for them, so I dont know what kind of mess she thinks I can have made in one day!! I had put the dog beds and bits and pieces from my van in the box bedroom, with plastic sheeting underneath to keep the place clean, in the spare bedroom I had clean clothes folded on the beds as I hadn't yet hung them up, and my own bedroom was clean. The kitchen had three empty cardboard boxes as I had been unpacking Sunday, and there were CLEAN dishes drying on the draining board. There was some dog mess in the garden, but I normally clean up after the dog every week, just hadn't gotten around to it with the unpacking.

I immediately phoned my sister who works with a letting agency and she told me to phone threshold. I did so, and they phoned The Mother telling her that it's illegal to enter a property without notice, and that she must give written 28 days notice to evict me.

That same evening, Monday, I was at home at at 8pm The Mother called to the door. I was in my pajamas having dinner, and I was on my own so I did not want to get into a conversation with her as I knew how it would go. She knocked for almost five minutes then went away. She came back five minutes later and started knocking again, and also on the sitting room window. She eventually went away. I was looking out from my bedroom window to see if she came back. She drove past my house three times, stopping outside each time and watching the house. As you can imagine I was quite freaked out! She then phoned me twice, and then had her daughter, the property owner, phone me.

I phoned the daughter back in the morning, Tuesday, and left a voicemail for her. At 1pm I got a text from The Mother reading "Any consent to keep a dog in the property is revoked with immediate effect". I again phoned my sister who works for the letting agency and she said she can't do that as part of the agreement for me taking the property was that I was allowed a dog.

I replied saying "Hi, hope your well. Threshold already have a copy of The Daughter's email granting me permission to keep a dog in the house. As you are now aware you have broken the elase by entering the property without my consent. Legally I also have 28 days to vacate the property once you have issued me with written notice. I am willing to comply with your request to vacate the property by Monday with the condition that you return my full deposit and first months rent 1300 in total in cash. The house will be left in the same condition as when I arrived"

She then phoned me and again the shouting began. She told me that I broke my contract by having the dog beds etc in the house, that it wasnt polite. I told her again how I had emptied my van and that they were only there temporarily. She then told me that I was keeping loads of dogs at the house which is bull. My sister and dad brought our family dogs when they called and I assumed that it wouldn't be a problem as they were just visiting (of course if Breda told me rationally that it wasn;t ok then it wouldnt be an issue). The conversation ended with me again agreeing to move out by Monday with the consent that I get my 1300 returned and she just said you will get a letter from my solicitor.

On Wednesday I stayed away from home as I wasn't comfortable with staying at that house.

On Thursday, yesterday, my phone was dead during the day as I can't find my charger. I have a car charger, so after work I was heading home to start packing. Once I turned on my phone a text came through saying "I hope you received my letter revoking permission to have a dog in the property. If a dog enters the property I will be aware of it." When I got home there was a letter in the post saying that basically permission to have the dog has been revoked. At this stage I had the dog at the house with me, and it was 8pm so I had nowhere to put her.

I'm going to stay away from the house again tonight but frankly I find this all ridiculous. The Mother obviously didn't want me in the house to start with as she hates dogs but the way she has treated me is rediculous. I'm raging still that she entered the property without letting me know, as at the time there was over €500 cash there that was waiting to be lodged into my business account.

I want to know where I stand, and what to do. I will be meeting with her Sunday or Monday to hand back the keys etc. and I want to know how to go abouts getting all my money back. I do not accept that I am liable to pay two weeks rent given the way I was treated and the fact that she terminated the lease 5 months early.

D3PO

unfortunatly you are libel for the 2 weeks rent regardless of the situation.

However unless you get your deposit back in full dont even consider handing over the keys.

lisasimps

Do I have to? that's so unfair, I spent one week unpacking and one week packing!!!

What about my dog? ive gotten permission to have her there, thats why i took the lease. Can I keep her there for the rest of the week? she's nowhere else to go!

ballsymchugh

where's the actual owner of the property in all of this? maybe all communication should be directed at her? i'm sure if she doesn't want the hassle of having an empty house then she may politely ask her mother to calm down.

D3PO

lisasimps wrote: »

Do I have to? that's so unfair, I spent one week unpacking and one week packing!!!

What about my dog? ive gotten permission to have her there, thats why i took the lease. Can I keep her there for the rest of the week? she's nowhere else to go!

you were given permission to have her there and as they never actually served you with the revoke notice you can keep her their on the claim you never recieved said notice. Its a little underhand but you get by on that technicality.

as for being unfair the fact is you had exclusinve use of the peroperty for the 2 weeks regardless of the issues so therfore have to pay the rent. If I were you Id just be happy to get my depsit and remaining rent back and get out of these.

lisasimps

the mum is acting as an agent for the property and is handling it all as the daughter's in dublin.

At this stage i've found another property (nine doors up from the current one!) and with the mum's antics i'd be happier getting away from her but really want my mula back!

D3PO

lisasimps wrote: »

i'd be happier getting away from her but really want my mula back!

theres no really want about it. Demand it back.

irisheddie85

Get in contact with your actual landlord, the daughter, and stop communication with the mother is what i would do. She defiantly doesn't have any right to enter your rented accommodation or revoke your right to keep a pet there

goat2

lisasimps wrote: »

Do I have to? that's so unfair, I spent one week unpacking and one week packing!!!

What about my dog? ive gotten permission to have her there, thats why i took the lease. Can I keep her there for the rest of the week? she's nowhere else to go!

you have permession for dog, you will be able to keep her there,get away from there as soon as possible, you should have seen trouble coming, that she would be impossible to please, speaking of last tenants, is not right for any land lord, it is wrong, you came across one impossible being.

goat2

a question,how is it you were so blind to judge that this is the last kind of landlord you need,when you rent out, the house is your home, also she should have made appointment to enter house, she has broken the rules, i wish you luck and happiness in next home

TimeToShine

If you have that E-mail that says you're allowed have a dog in the house, she has absolutely no right whatsoever to "revoke" that whenever she sees fit. It's absolute bullshít. Don't ask for your deposit back, demand it. As for the two weeks rent, I don't see how you're going to get it back, but I suggest you keep all the lights and electricity on until the two weeks are up and make the stupid bítch pay up for being a sad príck.

All the best.

goat2

lisasimps wrote: »

Hi there,


I'm I'm going to stay away from the house again tonight but frankly I find this all ridiculous. The Mother obviously didn't want me in the house to start with as she hates dogs but the way she has treated me is rediculous. I'm raging still that she entered the property without letting me know, as at the time there was over €500 cash there that was waiting to be lodged into my business account.

I want to know where I stand, and what to do. I will be meeting with her Sunday or Monday to hand back the keys etc. and I want to know how to go abouts getting all my money back. ]

do not go near the place without having 2 others with you, preferabley female, this woman is a danger to you, have these two ladies beside you at all times to see and hear everything that is said, and so that you cannot be accused of anything or wronged, this is very important,,,, i have read your writings here, and would not trust the person you are speaking of, i do hope you know what i mean, watch out for yourself and bring witnesses so it will not be her word against yours, but there will be backup for you

lisasimps

irisheddie85 wrote: »

Get in contact with your actual landlord, the daughter, and stop communication with the mother is what i would do. She defiantly doesn't have any right to enter your rented accommodation or revoke your right to keep a pet there

I did that. From her email back I get the feeling that her mum hasnt filled her in on everything, so I think ill send her on the summary of past events that I posted above.

The daughter (and owner) has said in her email that she is willing to refund two weeks rent, but will be keeping the first two weeks.

I know thats probably the legal solution but I just think its so unfair seeing as the mum entered the house (and by the way looked into all the rooms as I had the doors closed when I left!!), they've kicked me out irrationally, and I have to incur the hassle of getting friends and vans to help me move again (albeit just a few doors down )

lisasimps

goat2 wrote: »

a question,how is it you were so blind to judge that this is the last kind of landlord you need,when you rent out, the house is your home, also she should have made appointment to enter house, she has broken the rules, i wish you luck and happiness in next home

I know I know, thats why im kicking myself because I saw this coming, but I guess I just hoped that once I was in the house she would leave me be as when we were signing the lease she understood that it's the law to give 24hours notice.

The new landlords of the other house are so lovely! I was torn between taking the two houses to start with but went for the cheaper one, more fool me. But the new landlords were saying they regretted not taking me on in the first place, and when I called again during the week they insisted I brought Bella with me and proceeded to feed her all their dinner!!

D3PO

lisasimps wrote: »

IThe daughter (and owner) has said in her email that she is willing to refund two weeks rent, but will be keeping the first two weeks.

I know thats probably the legal solution but I just think its so unfair seeing as the mum entered the house (and by the way looked into all the rooms as I had the doors closed when I left!!), they've kicked me out irrationally, and I have to incur the hassle of getting friends and vans to help me move again (albeit just a few doors down )

Like I said perviously just be glad to get out of the situation. You mvoed in regardles of how untenable the situation is you cannot expentt not to have to pay rent when you rented.

a little moving hassle verus getting away from the landlady from hell. Well worth it.

Distorted

Having dealt with a couple of tenants who have been dirty but claimed all the excuses under the sun (including that their friends did it, they were ill that week and couldn't clean, etc) and it sounds like The Mother has experienced similar (you would be horrified by how utterly filthy some people can be, I honestly never thought it possible til I saw it). I'm going to play devil's advocate here and jjust say the following:

- Finding new tenants and evicting people is a hassle for landlords and they don't normally do it without good reason
- You say you have one dog but then apparantly 3 dogs were in your house due to a family visit (are your family surgically attached to their dogs that they bring them to a new house with them?)
- There was dog mess in the garden (that is pretty disgusting not to clean it up for a week - if you've just moved in, surely all the more reason to create a good impression and clear it up.
- The house was (bizarrely) full of dog beds - what do you expect the reasonable person to think? Why take them out of your van when you have so much unpacking to do anyway? And surely they will be covered in hairs, etc despite the plastic on the floor - sounds a lot of trouble to go to and surely easier just to keep them in the van!

Is there more to this than you are letting on?

ztoical

Distorted wrote: »

- The house was (bizarrely) full of dog beds - what do you expect the reasonable person to think?

Maybe I read it wrong but doesn't the OP work as a dog groomer and the beds were clearly connected with their work so why would it be bizare for them to have dog related items? I assume the LL has some idea about what the OP does for living so why would they be surprised to find dog related items in the house. Sounds like they have their own van for their business and used that to move into the house and prob made several trips so took the dog beds out while doing that.

djimi

Tell the mother you are looking into pressing charges against her for trespassing. She has no legal right to enter your home without your prearragned consent, so everything that happened after that is a moot point. She has broken the law and somehow thinks that she is still in the right.

I would also flat refuse to deal with the woman in any capacity. Contact your landlord and tell her that if her mother attempts to contact you again you are going to file a complaint with the gardai for harrassment.

Also tell your landlord that given the circumstances and the abuse that you have been subjected to in the time you were in the house, you are not accepting that you must pay two weeks rent. You rent a house expecting not to hear from your landlord apart from exceptional circumstances, and you certainly do not expect that you will be subjected to a tirade of abuse from their trespassing and law breaking parents.

lisasimps

Distorted wrote: »

Having dealt with a couple of tenants who have been dirty but claimed all the excuses under the sun (including that their friends did it, they were ill that week and couldn't clean, etc) and it sounds like The Mother has experienced similar (you would be horrified by how utterly filthy some people can be, I honestly never thought it possible til I saw it). I'm going to play devil's advocate here and jjust say the following:

- Finding new tenants and evicting people is a hassle for landlords and they don't normally do it without good reason
- You say you have one dog but then apparantly 3 dogs were in your house due to a family visit (are your family surgically attached to their dogs that they bring them to a new house with them?) they had been out for a walk in the area as the house is quite near to the beach. No they are not surgically attached to the dogs, but as I have a dog its not unreasonable to have them call with theirs. They all were out the back while we had dinner
- There was dog mess in the garden (that is pretty disgusting not to clean it up for a week - if you've just moved in, surely all the more reason to create a good impression and clear it up. Of course if i had known she was calling i would have cleaned up. i'd only moved into the house the week before, dog only went to the toilet out the back about once a day, and with just moving in I had so much to do, unpacking etc. and hadnt gotten around to it
- The house was (bizarrely) full of dog beds - what do you expect the reasonable person to think? i'd expect a reasonable person to put two and two together, or if not, to at least ASK me instead of jumping to inaccurate conclusions Why take them out of your van when you have so much unpacking to do anyway? And surely they will be covered in hairs, etc despite the plastic on the floor - sounds a lot of trouble to go to and surely easier just to keep them in the van! i called to the landlord in the morning to sign the lease and pay the deposit. my van wasn't loaded with household stuff yet as it was early and i was just nipping out to pay up. Remembered then that the van was full, so instead of going all the way to work to unload it, i thought it made sense to throw the stuff into the box room, do all my moving, and reload the van with work stuff ready for monday. As the house is a 3 bed nad its just me, i had the work stuff in the box room with the door closed, and it kept slipping my mind to reload the van. In my opinion it wasnt urgent, the bulk of the stuff are just metal cages that had been hosed down before going into the van, so are clean anyway, the plastic sheeting was just a precaution, it too was in the van so why not use it!

Is there more to this than you are letting on? nope, it is what it is. Playing devils advocate is good though to look at it from the landlords perspective, but i'm still baffled by her actions

thanks everyone for the feedback.

As advised i got in touch with the daughter. She seems like she was in the dark with quite a bit of the mums behaviour.

She has agreed to refund €1100 provided the house is in the same condution (it is, i moved all my stuff yesterday) which i suppose isnt too bad, but it just p*sses me off that they're getting €200 for putting me through all that hassle. I know im better off away from them anyway, but i just cant help feeling like they're getting off scot free for making my last week v. stressful and forcing me to go househunting and pack / unpack a whole house up again when im up the walls at work!

OS119

lisasimps wrote: »

thanks everyone for the feedback.

As advised i got in touch with the daughter. She seems like she was in the dark with quite a bit of the mums behaviour.

isn't there a 'rate my landlord' type website in Ireland - i think the one in the UK goes on property address. just google it and right a review.

its a harsh, expensive lesson OP, and one i don't think you should have to pay for, but never, ever sign a contract with someone who doesn't sound like they know what they're doing.

being a landlord is a business in a very regulated environment - people who don't fully understand the law have no more place in this business than a 6yo with a fisherprice garage set has maintaining passenger aircraft.

D3PO

OS119 wrote: »

its a harsh, expensive lesson OP, and one i don't think you should have to pay for, .

yeah because ultimatly paying €200 for 2 weeks rent is "expensive" :rolleyes:

You rent somewhere you have to pay end of story. I feel sorry for the OP's situation which at least shes getting it resolved but to say she shouldnt have to pay the rent is a joke.

Xiney

D3P0, I wager if the OP brought a case to the prtb she'd get her €200 back and more. She was unlawfully evicted and harrassed by the landlord's agent. They tend to take that sort of thing rather seriously.

I would, in her position (since I don't have a van of my own) be looking for reimbursement of movibg costs at the very least.

faceman

Holy Jaysus, thats awful circumstances OP.

First of all, you have permission to have a dog on the property. As already pointed out, she cant revoke that. Secondly, I presume it doesnt say anywhere in the lease or email, about how many dogbeds you are restricted to keeping in your house? Of course it doesnt. You are entitled to keep as many dog beds in the hosue as you want.

If the mother referenced as an authorised agent in the lease? If not, then write to your landlord stipulating that you will only deal directly with the landlord as defined in your lease. If the mother calls again, do not communicate with her and advise that any further communciation from her is deemed harrassing and possibly threatening behaviour.

Document EVERYTHING! Dates, times, details. Keep a diary.

If it was me, i would be seeking a full refund of all monies paid. You honoured your conditions of the lease, your landlord did not. You now as a result of what seems to be illegal actions, you have the massive inconvience of having to find a new home.

Dont be afraid to register a dispute or complaint with http://www.prtb.ie/

If its getting out of hand though, seek professional advice. Hope you get sorted.

Maybe next time, trust your instincts and steer clear of the crazy talking landlords!

D3PO

Xiney wrote: »

D3P0, I wager if the OP brought a case to the prtb she'd get her €200 back and more. She was unlawfully evicted and harrassed by the landlord's agent. They tend to take that sort of thing rather seriously.

I would, in her position (since I don't have a van of my own) be looking for reimbursement of movibg costs at the very least.

Did you read the thread ? She wasnt evicted nor is there any mention of her being given notice to vacate.. Check the thread again.

Xiney

D3PO wrote: »

Did you read the thread ? She wasnt evicted nor is there any mention of her being given notice to vacate.. Check the thread again.

I read it, the landlord's agent said she wanted her out and wouldn't leave her alone.

D3PO

I must have missed where it said she wanted her out. Either way that doesnt constitue an illegal eviction.

You have to actually evict somebody which isnt the case. The OP has agreed to move out and get her deposit back and the rent for the period she has paid for in the future.

Fair enough. Im not saying the landlord was right. The agent sounds like a nutjob but you cant be expecting to get money back for the rental time that has passed.

There needs to be some balance here.

Xiney

The whole point of illegal eviction is that due process hasn't been followed.

Whether the OP agreed or not, if this was contradictory to her rights she doesn't have the ability to sign those rights away.

She may not wish to follow this up but it is my opinion (granted, I am not a lawyer) that she would be able to and would get her 200 euro back and plus.

Xiney

Also I'm not saying she shouldn't have to pay rent for the two weeks - I'm saying she would probably get money in damages in excess of the two weeks rent, thus effectively getting that back.

D3PO

Xiney wrote: »

Also I'm not saying she shouldn't have to pay rent for the two weeks - I'm saying she would probably get money in damages in excess of the two weeks rent, thus effectively getting that back.

what you advocating though sets a dangerous precedent. Ultimatly the OP isnt in anyway out of pocket.

Yes they had a 2 week period where they were probably stressed out a bit, but accept it and move on.

Id hate to think were getting into that Americanised mentality of sue for everything.

I could trip on the pavement and sue the county council and would probably win. Doesnt make it morally the right thing to do though does it ?

you start things like this going and next thing landlords are suing tennants at every opportunity aswell. Be carefull what you wish for you just might get it.

Xiney

D3PO wrote: »

what you advocating though sets a dangerous precedent. Ultimatly the OP isnt in anyway out of pocket.

Yes they had a 2 week period where they were probably stressed out a bit, but accept it and move on.

Id hate to think were getting into that Americanised mentality of sue for everything.

I could trip on the pavement and sue the county council and would probably win. Doesnt make it morally the right thing to do though does it ?

you start things like this going and next thing landlords are suing tennants at every opportunity aswell. Be carefull what you wish for you just might get it.

It's not setting a precedent, the precedent is already set.

That's what the PRTB is for - resolving disputes.

stanley1980

Can someone please offer me some advice!!

I've been renting a room in a house for the last year or so on a month to month basis without a lease which suited me as my job was uncertain. I shared the house with a couple who moved in recently (which was the main reason I decided to move out and get my own place). I've had several run ins with my landlord who is extremely underhand, smarmy and basically deceitful- too many incidences to go into but you'll have to take my word for it!

Anyway, I gave the landlord a month's notice when he announced a student was moving in (who turned out a young 18 year old lad) doing his leaving cert. and with an obviously dodgy background- sorry but it's true! His family live 15km away but for some reason he was out of the family home and he admitted to me he'd been kicked out of school. I'm 30 and the other couple are in their mid-30's it's a quiet, clean suburban house and definitely not the place for an 18 year old schoolboy who's never been away form home before. I noted my concerns to the landlord at the time who told me I was being predjidice- fair enough you might say until my concerns were soon proved right. Anyway, as I was moving out at the end of the month I kept my head down and said nothing. Havng moved into a new place a couple of days before the end the month I went round to pick up the rest of my stuff and clean the room thoroughly- very concious not to give the landlord any excuse to withhold my month's deposit.

A couple of days later the landlord rang me telling me I wouldn't be getting back my deposit as the bedroom door was damaged, the tv remote was missing, the ensuite bathroom was filthy and there were cigarettes on the floor! Obviously this was not how i'd left the room and I pointed out that I don't even smoke! The couple had been away on holdays and the young guy admitted that he'd had 9 friends around but denies anyone went into my room. The landlord must know what happened but is saying he won't return my deposit as there's no evidence! This is not out of character with other things he's done.

Anyway, I'm absolutley livid. I still have the key and am waiting for the landlord to get back to me as he says he wants to speak to the couple- even though they were away when the damage happened. He's just hoping I'll go away. I went to the house yesterday and had a blazing row with the landlord and young guy who was still drunk from the night before! I really had to restrain myself from doing something I'd regret later but amstill so angry-

Please can someone give me some advice on what to do. I just want my deposit back and to never have to see these people again.