Does Islam respect other religions?

alex73

Hi, After all the controversy about the new york mosque, why does Saudi Arabia not allow Catholics to openly practice their religion (I am talking about the large migrant population from Philippines).

Why should we respect Muslim and I as a Catholic would not be able to openly practice my faith in Saudi Arabia (and other Muslim Countries) Does it not seem like double standands?

I have upmost respect to Muslims but often times they demand respect but do not reciprocate this same respect.

In my local hospital there is a Muslim doctor who wears a Gold pendent of the Koran. But I would not be allowed to openly wear a Gold Cross in Saudi Arabia.

FYI 800,000 catholics in Saudi Arabia and no church.

Doom

No....ever seen a catholic church in Saudi Arabia....which is the biggest supporter (in money sense) of the Muslim relgion

mmalaka

Perhaps you need to change the title of this post to be:
Does Saudi Arabia respect other religions?

Saudi Arabia is not the only Muslim country in the world...and you can find a lot of churches in the Islamic countries... if Saudi Arabia did not allow something this does not mean that it is related to Islam...

wes

If you wish to act like Saudia Arabia, then please go ahead. It should be noted however, when you act like them, you will be no better than them.

irishconvert

alex73 wrote: »

In my local hospital there is a Muslim doctor who wears a Gold pendent of the Koran. But I would not be allowed to openly wear a Gold Cross in Saudi Arabia..

That's ironic because Muslim men are not allowed to wear gold.

Mark Hamill

alex73 wrote: »

Hi, After all the controversy about the new york mosque, why does Saudi Arabia not allow Catholics to openly practice their religion (I am talking about the large migrant population from Philippines).

Why should we respect Muslim and I as a Catholic would not be able to openly practice my faith in Saudi Arabia (and other Muslim Countries) Does it not seem like double standands?

I have upmost respect to Muslims but often times they demand respect but do not reciprocate this same respect.

In my local hospital there is a Muslim doctor who wears a Gold pendent of the Koran. But I would not be allowed to openly wear a Gold Cross in Saudi Arabia.

FYI 800,000 catholics in Saudi Arabia and no church.

How many mosques are in the vatican?

Casillas

From communists to Muslims, what next Martians. I don't like their Martian religion, they're emigrating on mass, our short, mortal way of life is under threat again! P'haw enough of this!

irishconvert

As earlier posters mentioned, you shouldn't confuse Saudi Arabia with Islam. Islam doesn't have the following rules/customs which Saudi does:

- In Saudi women can't drive
- In Saudi women can't go out without a male relative
- In Saudi women are forced to wear burqa

In my opinion Saudi Arabia is the worst possible country to use as an example of Islam. It would be like saying the USA is a model Christian country.

As for the OP's quesiton Islam respects the right of others to practise their religion. The Qur'an tells us this many times. All you have to do is look at other Muslim countries where there are Christians, Jews and Muslims living side by side peacefully, all able to practise their religions freely.

mmalaka

irishconvert wrote: »

- In Saudi women can't go out without a male relative
- In Saudi women are forced to wear burqa

Just to clarify the above two points are not correct....
In Saudi women can go out without a male relative...she go to work, school, university without a male relative.

There is no rule or anything to force any women in Saudi to wear burqa......

irishconvert

mmalaka wrote: »

Just to clarify the above two points are not correct....
In Saudi women can go out without a male relative...she go to work, school, university without a male relative.

There is no rule or anything to force any women in Saudi to wear burqa......

It's not a rule as such, more of a cultural pressure. Very few Saudi women would be brave enough to out without a burqa.

Ellian

Obviously there are many different interpretations of Islam, maybe as many as there are adherents of that faith, but as I understand it the Koran specifically states that there should be tolerance of "people of the book." if not all religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book

julie2tubz

Mark Hamill wrote: »

How many mosques are in the vatican?

What ? How many Muslims live in Vatican city?

Nodin

alex73 wrote: »

Hi, After all the controversy about the new york mosque, why does Saudi Arabia not allow Catholics to openly practice their religion (I am talking about the large migrant population from Philippines).

Why should we respect Muslim and I as a Catholic would not be able to openly practice my faith in Saudi Arabia (and other Muslim Countries) Does it not seem like double standands?

I have upmost respect to Muslims but often times they demand respect but do not reciprocate this same respect.

In my local hospital there is a Muslim doctor who wears a Gold pendent of the Koran. But I would not be allowed to openly wear a Gold Cross in Saudi Arabia.

FYI 800,000 catholics in Saudi Arabia and no church.

The Saudi state represents the Saudi state. Taking the attitudes of that state (or others) and applying it to "muslims" isn't logical.

Hobbes

julie2tubz wrote: »

What ? How many Muslims live in Vatican city?

Both are considered holy land for their respective religion.

btw, as I understand it SA Christians are just not allowed worship openly, which is slightly different then a total ban.

Why pick SA? Why not Turkey? 98% Muslims IIRC. They have a number of other religions practicing there. I'd agree with others here in that you can't take the actions of one country to be reflective of a whole religion.

Mark Hamill

julie2tubz wrote: »

What ? How many Muslims live in Vatican city?

Zero, I'd guess. But are there no mosques because there are no muslims, or are there no muslims there because there are no mosques?

The OPs question references Saudia Arabia as a place where Islam is dominant and other religions are actively discouraged, but to think that that is a purely Islamic trait is false. All religions will follow such a path, if guided by insecure rulers who rely on the religion for their power.

g5fd6ow0hseima

irishconvert wrote: »

It would be like saying the USA is a model Christian country.

Perhaps it is. It seems to be the only developed nation in which religion is still thriving - a country staying true to its 'christian values', whereas in Europe, religion could be judged to be receeding at a rapid rate.

Now, note the correlation between religious prevalence and social conservatism in the developed world (for arguements sake). The most non-theistic are the most secular and liberal, whereas one could claim the opposite for 'faithful' societies. In this sense, the USA is a model Christian country in that a significant portion of the populace rejects liberal notions and even evolution.

What would you see as a model christian society?

goose2005

Myla Obedient Staff wrote: »

Perhaps it is. It seems to be the only developed nation in which religion is still thriving - a country staying true to its 'christian values', whereas in Europe, religion could be judged to be receeding at a rapid rate.

Now, note the correlation between religious prevalence and social conservatism in the developed world (for arguements sake). The most non-theistic are the most secular and liberal, whereas one could claim the opposite for 'faithful' societies. In this sense, the USA is a model Christian country in that a significant portion of the populace rejects liberal notions and even evolution.

What would you see as a model christian society?

Most Christian groups do not reject evolution. Also, you've ignored the many Latin American countries, which tend to be strongly religious and strongly left-wing.

The Highwayman

Mark Hamill wrote: »

How many mosques are in the vatican?

Yes there IS a mosque in the Vatican and has been for years

:P

The Highwayman

irishconvert wrote: »

It's not a rule as such, more of a cultural pressure. Very few Saudi women would be brave enough to out without a burqa.

why........ would a woman have to be brave to go out without a burqa?

because they will be beaten by the 'Morality Police' if they dont, thats why

alex73

Very strange how people are not rushing to defend Saudi Arabia. They say their constition is based on the Koran.

I see the Vatican mentioned, don't know what a token state of 823 people has anything to do with my post about 800,000 catholics in Saudi Arabia and no church.

Rome as a very large Mosque for muslims,

mmalaka

Islam respect other religions...as I said you can find a lot of churches in the Islamic countries.

Even in Saudi Arabia they respect other religions...if not how come 800,000 catholics and I do not know how many people form other religions are living and working in Saudi Arabia...

kwinabeeste

irishconvert wrote: »

That's ironic because Muslim men are not allowed to wear gold.

who said the doctor was a man?

Tom Dunne

mmalaka wrote: »

if not how come 800,000 catholics and I do not know how many people form other religions are living and working in Saudi Arabia...

Because they need migrant workers to do the menial tasks Saudis wouldn't be caught dead doing like serving, cleaning, working in shops.

But that debate is for a different thread.

I live in the Middle East and just down the road from me there is a Catholic church. While I don't frequent it myself, I am told it is packed to the gills on a Friday morning (mass is celebrated on a Friday, seeing as it is the weekend here). No issues with other religions here.

And after visiting the local mosque during an open day a while back, I was almost embarrassed about how much the guy giving us the tour knew about Christianity and Judaism.

Saudi Arabia is a special case. They have more money than they can ever spend and can do what they damn well like. They are not representative of Islam. The ruling elite keep the religious nutjobs happy simply to maintain the status quo.

AbuYusuf

Its true that Al Saud certainly does not represent Islam but the decision to have no other religions on the Peninsula is one which is part of the religion and the Prophet (SAW) said "Expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula" and "No two religions can exist on the Arabian Peninsula." So this is the reason for no churches and it should indeed be expanded to include the whole of the Peninsula. However Al Saud did indeed allow US military bases complete with churches to be established their and some are still present I believe.

Mark Hamill

Sorry for missing this reply for so long

The Highwayman wrote: »

Yes there IS a mosque in the Vatican and has been for years

:P

Is there? I cant find any information about it, do you have any details?

Mark Hamill

alex73 wrote: »

I see the Vatican mentioned, don't know what a token state of 823 people has anything to do with my post about 800,000 catholics in Saudi Arabia and no church.

Rome as a very large Mosque for muslims,

My point was that any country dominated and ruled by a single religion is generally going to be biased in favour of that religion simply because of how religions work. The vatican might be small, but it is still a religious state and rules itself as such. Rome, while it has mosques, is not ruled by the Catholic religion.
The only other example I could think of off the top of my head was Malaysia and its controversies with hindu temples, taoist statues, christians using the word "Allah" and yoga. However pointing out another muslim nation abusing its power hardly supports my point that all religious powers do the same.

donaghs

Mark Hamill wrote: »

My point was that any country dominated and ruled by a single religion is generally going to be biased in favour of that religion simply because of how religions work.

Absolute rubbish. For example, all the Scandinvian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) are dominated by Lutheranism. It is by far the most common religion, and is actually the official "State Religion" of Denmark and Norway. But people of other religions are still free to build churches and practice their religion.

Bizarre someone defending Saudi Arabia....

Mark Hamill

donaghs wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. For example, all the Scandinvian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) are dominated by Lutheranism. It is by far the most common religion, and is actually the official "State Religion" of Denmark and Norway. But people of other religions are still free to build churches and practice their religion.

I said dominated and ruled. The laws of the land in those countries aren't laid down by the lutheran version of a pope. The people running these countries are not the religious leaders also.

donaghs wrote: »

Bizarre someone defending Saudi Arabia....

Not so much defending it, as pointing out all religions that hold political power (ie the religious leader also the political leader) do the same.

whydoc

to be more precise:
you mean muslims, scriptures or islamic countries that most probably don't present "pure" islam

Freiheit

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

A religion of peace?.

whydoc

Mark Hamill wrote: »

My point was that any country dominated and ruled by a single religion is generally going to be biased in favour of that religion simply because of how religions work. The vatican might be small, but it is still a religious state and rules itself as such. Rome, while it has mosques, is not ruled by the Catholic religion.
The only other example I could think of off the top of my head was Malaysia and its controversies with hindu temples, taoist statues, christians using the word "Allah" and yoga. However pointing out another muslim nation abusing its power hardly supports my point that all religious powers do the same.

I just want to say that Allah is our God and the same God of people of scripture so, they have the right to use it . example of strange policy makers.

Surat Al-`Ankabūt (The Spider),46:

And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

whydoc

Iam newbi i expected to say welcome, you caught me :P

Freiheit wrote: »

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Do you have slight idea about what you are quoting ( i hope from source other than that i concluded

It was for Angels who supported muslims in Badr.

The story is mentioned in "Sahih Muslim":
It has been narrated on the authority of 'Umar b. al-Khattab who said:

When it was the day on which the Battle of Badr was fought, the Messenger of God (may peace be upon him) cast a glance at the infidels, and they were one thousand while his own Companions were three hundred and nineteen. The Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) turned (his face) towards the Qibla Then he stretched his hands and began his supplication to his Lord:

"O God, accomplish for me what Thou hast promised to me. O God, bring about what Thou hast promised to me. O God, if this small band of Muslims is destroyed. Thou will not be worshipped on this earth."
He continued his supplication to his Lord, stretching his hands, facing the Qibla, until his mantle slipped down from his shoulders.

So Abu Bakr ( his favourate companion )came to him, picked up his mantle and put it on his shoulders. Then he embraced him from behind and said:.

Prophet of Allah, this prayer of yours to your Lord will suffice you, and He will fulfil for you what He has promised you.
So Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, revealed (the Qur'anic verse): "When ye appealed to your Lord for help, He responded to your call (saying): I will help you with one thousand angels coming in succession." So God helped him with angels.

While on that day a Muslim was chasing a disbeliever who was going ahead of him, he heard over him' the swishing of the whip and the voice of the rider saying: Go ahead, Haizi'm ! He glanced at the polytheist who had (now) fallen down on his back. When he looked at him (carefully he found that) there was a scar on his nose and his face was torn as if it had been lashed with a whip, and had turned green with its poison. An Ansari came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and related this (event) to him. He said: You have told the truth. This was the help from the third heaven.
The Muslims that day (i.e. the day of the Battle of Badr) killed seventy persons and captured seventy.

A religion of peace?.

Who said that ?

santiago

julie2tubz wrote: »

What ? How many Muslims live in Vatican city?

how many catholics live in Mecca?
You can not add Vatican or Mecca in this post.
Well you can but pointless

whydoc

santiago wrote: »

how many catholics live in Mecca?
You can not add Vatican or Mecca in this post.
Well you can but pointless

I agree with you but this post was a reaction

CokaColumbo

Does Islamic teaching not promote the political subjugation of non-Muslims whilst allowing them to practice their religion?

And is it not true that almost all modern Islamic states give less freedom and show less tolerance to citizens than modern Western states?

whydoc

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Does Islamic teaching not promote the political subjugation of non-Muslims whilst allowing them to practice their religion?

sorry, i didn't get the point , how ?

And is it not true that almost all modern Islamic states give less freedom and show less tolerance to citizens than modern Western states?

In my first post in the thread i said

islamic countries that most probably don't present "pure" islam

Muslims has to follow Quran and prophet orders only.
States mostly nowdays are not strictly follwing them in most aspects of life.
I think that muslims in many europeans countries can't build a mosque :P

oceanclub

whydoc wrote: »

I think that muslims in many europeans countries can't build a mosque :P

Please name these countries.

P.

whydoc

oceanclub wrote: »

Please name these countries.

P.

I am not expert in this, but every now and then i hear about how muslims in many of them gather to pray in "rooms" because authorities don't give them a permission.

Milano muslims is an example
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0921/Catholic-Church-backs-Muslim-struggle-to-build-Milan-s-first-mosque

the church has a good role recently , but that is common.

Athens is another example
http://deviousdiva.com/2009/10/09/a-mosque-in-athens/

Mark Hamill

whydoc wrote: »

to be more precise:
you mean muslims, scriptures or islamic countries that most probably don't present "pure" islam

Is this directed at me? If so, what do you mean?

Mark Hamill

santiago wrote: »

how many catholics live in Mecca?
You can not add Vatican or Mecca in this post.
Well you can but pointless

Why is it pointless? Are there no mosques/churches in Vatican/Mecca because there are no Muslims/Christians, or are there no Muslims/Christians in Vatican/Mecca because there are no mosques/churches? My point is that nowhere on earth that is ruled by a specific religion is going to be particularly welcoming or accomadating of other religions, its not unique to islam/Saudia Arabia. I'm pretty sure there are no muslim prayer rooms in the Church of Scientology International in California.

DublinWriter

Freiheit wrote: »

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

A religion of peace?.

Oh look, there's a lot of crazy sh*t in the bible too, it's very easy to play tit-for-tat with scriptural quotations.

The common ground between Islam and Christianity is that fundamentalists from both religions believe all the crazy sh*t contained their respective books. The rest try to get on with their lives, pay their bills and chat with the neighbour every now and again.

Islam has an implicit respect for 'people of the book', i.e. Christians and Jews, however it's difficult to square some of the current and corrupt Islamic non-secular nations with the Islamic tradition of scholarship and tolerance that these self-same geographic regions practised 1,000 years ago.

whydoc

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Is this directed at me? If so, what do you mean?

oh,sorry.
it was for the Q of the thread. welcome

whydoc

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Why is it pointless? Are there no mosques/churches in Vatican/Mecca because there are no Muslims/Christians, or are there no Muslims/Christians in Vatican/Mecca because there are no mosques/churches? My point is that nowhere on earth that is ruled by a specific religion is going to be particularly welcoming or accomadating of other religions, its not unique to islam/Saudia Arabia. I'm pretty sure there are no muslim prayer rooms in the Church of Scientology International in California.

you mean this :P
The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion

irishconvert

Freiheit wrote: »

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

A religion of peace?.

Please refrain from quoting Qur'an without putting the quote in context, and quoting the full verse. If you don't understand the context you can ask here and we will explain but don't just quote something you don't understand and jump to assumptions

irishconvert

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Does Islamic teaching not promote the political subjugation of non-Muslims whilst allowing them to practice their religion?

And is it not true that almost all modern Islamic states give less freedom and show less tolerance to citizens than modern Western states?

If you are making that accusation then it is up to you to back it up, not for others to disprove you.

donaghs

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Why is it pointless? Are there no mosques/churches in Vatican/Mecca because there are no Muslims/Christians, or are there no Muslims/Christians in Vatican/Mecca because there are no mosques/churches? My point is that nowhere on earth that is ruled by a specific religion is going to be particularly welcoming or accomadating of other religions, its not unique to islam/Saudia Arabia. I'm pretty sure there are no muslim prayer rooms in the Church of Scientology International in California.

The Vatican is a tiny area. There are under 900 people living there. Mecca has a population of almost 2 million. What sort of a comparison are you trying to make?

Perhaps a more interesting comparison would be Saudi Arabia and Italy. i.e. its easier to be a Muslim in Italy than it is to be non-Muslim in Saudi.

Incidentally, pre-Islam, many pagans Jews and Christians lived in what is now Saudi Arabia, and had their own temples and churches.

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

If you are making that accusation then it is up to you to back it up, not for others to disprove you.

I would presume this should also be aimed at posts stating that Europeans countries ban mosques, giving as "proof" a debate around a single mosque in a single country:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7493756.stm

P.

Mark Hamill

donaghs wrote: »

The Vatican is a tiny area. There are under 900 people living there. Mecca has a population of almost 2 million. What sort of a comparison are you trying to make?

That in a state where the religious rule, other religions are usually not particularly welcome. True that the vatican only has about 900 living there, but I doubt it would be different if it had 2 million living there.

donaghs wrote: »

Perhaps a more interesting comparison would be Saudi Arabia and Italy. i.e. its easier to be a Muslim in Italy than it is to be non-Muslim in Saudi.

I realise Italy is more comparable, population wise, with Saudia Arabia, but Italy, while predominantly RC, is not actually ruled by religious clerics, so it doesn't reflect my point well. What you said is true though.

irishconvert

oceanclub wrote: »

I would presume this should also be aimed at posts stating that Europeans countries ban mosques, giving as "proof" a debate around a single mosque in a single country:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7493756.stm

P.

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