Ireland's best bjj players

Richy06

I'd be there with bells on and I'd say you'd get a good crowd from the various clubs that would go to it!

Chris89

If be there too!

No johns
No brazils
No homo

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

We're allowed to have 1 Darragh then?

I reckon a nogi, open tournament with a limit of 16 people. €50 entrance fee that's €800 I'll raise the rest. I know a perfect venue with tiered seating for spectators.

I reckon 1k for the winner and €100 for the beaten finalist.

I'm deadly serious now. If I put it on who'd enter? Who'd spectate?

good few problems with it being open to anyone. if you really wanted people to come and watch it, the 16 people would have to be specifically chosen.

great idea and way to promote bjj in ireland. mark would definitely put it up on bjj.ie, potentially even film the matches. (and i mean get someone else to film the matches while he competes )

Barry.Oglesby

Chris89 wrote: »

If be there too!

No johns
No brazils
No homo

If be there! If be there good!

arybvtcw0eolkf

NG-DOC wrote: »

good few problems with it being open to anyone.

Why would there be a good few problems with it?.

Tbh, I'm surprised reading this that you guys don't have an 'Open weight' and open to all grades.

Sid_Justice

50 euro entrance to compete or 50 euro entrance to watch?

Barry.Oglesby

NG-DOC wrote: »

well i'm definitely in.

good few problems with it being open to anyone. if you really wanted people to come and watch it, the 16 people would have to be specifically chosen.

great idea and way to promote bjj in ireland. mark would definitely put it up on bjj.ie, potentially even film the matches. (and i mean get someone else to film the matches while he competes )

yes I was thinking about that just now. Perhaps an invitation only might be better.

Tell you what. If someone gives me the top 8 active* BJJ competitors in Ireland we can start there and then maybe have 6 wild cards or selections/entries.

I'll start

1. Darragh O'Connail
2. Tom King
3. Wayne Fagan
4. Artur Piotrowski
5. Piotr Stawski
6. Clive Staunton
7. Ciaran Toal
8.

I've intentionally left 8 blank because I can't decide between about 8 names. They're not in order of merit or anything and as you can see they're quite Dublin-centric as these are the guys I know best.

*as in active in BJJ competition not in the gym

NG-DOC

Maeve Mushy Trigonometry wrote: »

Why would there be a good few problems with it?.

Tbh, I'm surprised reading this that you guys don't have an 'Open weight' and open to all grades.

well, i would think that having more experienced people competing against each other would make for a better competition. make for more interest, and make for more potential spectators and publicity for bjj.

i also think that if you leave it open to anyone, potentially the 16 spots could go to 16 people training for 4 months. i don't think that would be a particularly good tournament to promote bjj in ireland!

EnjoyChoke

BJJ. Should be in the gi. Just sayin

Barry.Oglesby

Sid_Justice wrote: »

50 euro entrance to compete or 50 euro entrance to watch?

I was just spitballing and saying that a €50 entrance fee would make up the bulk of prize money. I'd have to have a serious sit down to figure out how to correctly fund it. Ideally, every competitor would compete for free. I think given the venue I'm thinking of this would be an all ticket affair.

I have some decent sponsorship contacts who might be interested. I rang the venue this morning and they're fine with it and it's suitable.

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

yes I was thinking about that just now. Perhaps an invitation only might be better.

Tell you what. If someone gives me the top 8 active* BJJ competitors in Ireland we can start there and then maybe have 6 wild cards or selections/entries.

I'll start

1. Darragh O'Connail
2. Tom King
3. Wayne Fagan
4. Artur Piotrowski
5. Piotr Stawski
6. Clive Staunton
7. Ciaran Toal
8.

I've intentionally left 8 blank because I can't decide between about 8 names. They're not in order of merit or anything and as you can see they're quite Dublin-centric as these are the guys I know best.

*as in active in BJJ competition not in the gym

Mark Curry, Liam O Toole, Fergal Quinlan, Andre Ramos

Of course people would have to confirm their interest.

Nogi would draw more spectators imo, and potentially more competitors. however i'm easy!

Sid_Justice

Perhaps an open invitation but a maximum of one entry per gym?

lukeyjudo

Ooooh exciting.

You'd have to do a gi category though. Why not do a gi and no gi on the same day? :cool:

EnjoyChoke

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Perhaps an open invitation but a maximum of one entry per gym?

Anti SBG rule?

Barry.Oglesby

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Perhaps an open invitation but a maximum of one entry per gym?

Nah I think that would defeat the purpose. Guys would have to agree to not be seperated in the first round and I think we'd have to enforce a "no closing the bracket" rule too. If it's open it's open and totally luck of the draw so that no favouritism could exist.

Sid_Justice

with only ~16 entries it needs to be exclusive. If you do 32 entries then sure, there's plenty of spaces available. But I don't see the point if having 3(or 3+) guys from the same gym in the same competition if one guy is clearly better than the others in training. Not an anti-sbg gym rule but obviously sbg and bjj revolution would be most effected.

Isn't this standard practice in the worlds? one entry per category per team?

arybvtcw0eolkf

NG-DOC wrote: »

well, i would think that having more experienced people competing against each other would make for a better competition. make for more interest, and make for more potential spectators and publicity for bjj.

i also think that if you leave it open to anyone, potentially the 16 spots could go to 16 people training for 4 months. i don't think that would be a particularly good tournament to promote bjj in ireland!

I'm not trying to pick holes in this, but why can't you run an open category on the day of (for example) the Irish Open and let it be a process of elimination?.

Happens in Judo competitions and run's pretty smoothly. And although its open to all grades the coaches of the lower grades would usually advise the lads against competing so the standard is still kept pretty high.

Sid_Justice

As lukeyjudo and ngi-doc thanked tom's post, they would be free to enter as next generation and bjj coolmine. owen roddy would be primal and tom king could be sbg. clive could be ucd mma. just sayin'

NG-DOC

Sid_Justice wrote: »

.

Isn't this standard practice in the worlds? one entry per category per team?

2 entries per category per team. but it's flawed, for example, 2 guys enter as gracie barra, 2 others enter as gracie barra texas, 2 others as gracie barra san diego.

who ever wins gracie barra get the points.

NG-DOC

Maeve Mushy Trigonometry wrote: »

I'm not trying to pick holes in this, but why can't you run an open category on the day of (for example) the Irish Open and let it be a process of elimination?.

Happens in Judo competitions and run's pretty smoothly. And although its open to all grades the coaches of the lower grades would usually advise the lads against competing so the standard is still kept pretty high.

if you ran an open category on the day of the irish open it wouldn't have the same attraction.

a specific day, with prize money and spectators would be far more interesting.

in my opinion of course

Barry.Oglesby

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Anti SBG rule?

Anti Ryano, GBNI and Pedro Bessa rule too. 16 gyms might be able to select a representative but remember that BJJ is still very young in Ireland and as such a lot of competitors come from the original group of gyms.

No, open is open we'd just have to agree that any closing of brackets would mean a DQ in the quarters or semis and forfeiture of the prize money in the final.

lukeyjudo

My two cents

As per the thread title this was originally a discussion about Irelands Best BJJ Players.

We recently had the Irish Open, I can't think of a bigger tournament to win in the country (Munster Open was awesome) doesn't that count for something?

Do we mean active BJJ players or people that are awesome at BJJ but don't compete... I can think of one certain second degree BJJ black belt that doesn't compete anymore that would be right at the top of the list... lol

I love the idea of this competition and would love a chance to compete, it would be a career buiding win for the champ.

Also BJJ is a gi art (everyone knows how much I love gi) but I would love to see/compete at this if it had a gi and no gi category.

I also heard Tom King is so scabby it's a foregone conclusion he would win just for the prize money.

PS Closing of the brackets SUCKS!!! I broke my brothers arm in my first ever final in my first judo comp. True story.

EnjoyChoke

Sid_Justice wrote: »

As lukeyjudo and ngi-doc thanked tom's post, they would be free to enter as next generation and bjj coolmine. owen roddy would be primal and tom king could be sbg. clive could be ucd mma. just sayin'

I'd struggle to make the top 5 from my gym for an open weight comp like this. Just sayin.

Barry.Oglesby

Advantages and disadvatages of the gi/nogi scenario please?

Barry.Oglesby

Also, lets make one thing clear enough, I'm not looking to prove definitively who the best grappler in Ireland is. After all an open weight tournament favours bigger guys and smaller guys get the shaft

What I think this WOULD be good for is as a showcase for the highest level of the sport here in Ireland. Everyone wants to see the best and I think the prize money would be good to coax a few of those guys in the gyms who are great but don't compete that much out into the spotlight.

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Advantages and disadvatages of the gi/nogi scenario please?

gi would be slower, 'more boring' (you know what i mean), and would favour the bigger player.

nogi would be faster, 'more exciting', and would arguably give the smaller player a better chance.

if you want a pure BJJ tournament, it has to be in the gi.

If you just want the 'best grappler' angle, you can wear whatever you want. (but clearly everyone will not wear gi's )

dasmoose

I love this idea. Darragh and i were playing around with it recently but it was just pie-in-the-sky thinking - I think if anyone can make it happen it's you Barry.

I'll definitely compete if you need me but if it's going to be a smaller say 8-man tournament then i'd rather see Liam, Fergal, Andre etc go in ahead of me as they deserve it more. And Darragh is absolutely right that i'd have all matches filmed and on BJJ.ie for all to see, this would be fantastic for the sport

r_obric

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Also, lets make one thing clear enough, I'm not looking to prove definitively who the best grappler in Ireland is. After all an open weight tournament favours bigger guys and smaller guys get the shaft

What I think this WOULD be good for is as a showcase for the highest level of the sport here in Ireland. Everyone wants to see the best and I think the prize money would be good to coax a few of those guys in the gyms who are great but don't compete that much out into the spotlight.

as a showcase it would be brilliant.

Barry.Oglesby

I'm just running through the figures.

The margins would be tight between success and me taking a bath. I want nothing out of this but to see it happen but I'd also not like to pay for it . Without giving any details as that benefits no one, I may be able to contact some potential sponsors in the next few days. Unfortunately what this means is that if I do, then I could well be exhausting the sponsorship avenues for my own team if you know what I mean, so either way this could come at a cost personally. It also may come down to spectators.

Would it be a draw? I find it tricky to guage this as I often forget how obscure a taste grappling is.

Sid_Justice

Would it be fair to say that right now, and this may be in flux, that our relative standard of no-gi is higher than that of the gi? That is to say, if we found our best, currently active grappler he'd probably fair better in ADCC style tournament than a mundial. If we take this presumption to be true, perhaps it would be a better show case of talent to have a no-gi competition.

I think generally speaking, submission (no-gi) appeals to the naive fan more than the gi, so in terms of selling tickets, perhaps no-gi would be more exciting and more enticing. but on the flipside, is this a tournament to show case ireland's bjj skills to the bjj community? if so, let's keep it in the gi and geared towards bjj fans.

r_obric

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I'm just running through the figures.

The margins would be tight between success and me taking a bath. I want nothing out of this but to see it happen but I'd also not like to pay for it . Without giving any details as that benefits no one, I may be able to contact some potential sponsors in the next few days. Unfortunately what this means is that if I do, then I could well be exhausting the sponsorship avenues for my own team if you know what I mean, so either way this could come at a cost personally. It also may come down to spectators.

Would it be a draw? I find it tricky to guage this as I often forget how obscure a taste grappling is.

First of all you would need a venue, easy enough to get.

The referee would be very important, at least 1 impartial ref with high level competition experience would be needed. That may involve bringing over someone or having this on when there is a seminar on.

I would pay in, and im sure others would, so maybe the entry fee could make some prize money...

EnjoyChoke

BJJ is a Gi art.
Gi favours more technical play.
All grapling styes "favour" the bigger player.

Pontificatus

I would love to see this in the Gi but have a feeling that No Gi would be more marketable. I assume it would be submission only or 10 minute rounds, open draw, no closing of brackets, ADCC rules for NoGi/Blackbelt rules for Gi? The finalists would have four matches so perhaps both Gi and NoGi is doable.

Are Irish in the UK invited, Paddy Carmody etc?

Edit to add: Would pay to watch

r_obric

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that right now, and this may be in flux, that our relative standard of no-gi is higher than that of the gi? That is to say, if we found our best, currently active grappler he'd probably fair better in ADCC style tournament than a mundial. If we take this presumption to be true, perhaps it would be a better show case of talent to have a no-gi competition.

I think generally speaking, submission (no-gi) appeals to the naive fan more than the gi, so in terms of selling tickets, perhaps no-gi would be more exciting and more enticing. but on the flipside, is this a tournament to show case ireland's bjj skills to the bjj community? if so, let's keep it in the gi and geared towards bjj fans.

just a thought, could something like this could be used in an attempt to get a qualifier for the ADCC down the road, how does that work?

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I'm just running through the figures.

The margins would be tight between success and me taking a bath. I want nothing out of this but to see it happen but I'd also not like to pay for it . Without giving any details as that benefits no one, I may be able to contact some potential sponsors in the next few days. Unfortunately what this means is that if I do, then I could well be exhausting the sponsorship avenues for my own team if you know what I mean, so either way this could come at a cost personally. It also may come down to spectators.

Would it be a draw? I find it tricky to guage this as I often forget how obscure a taste grappling is.

i think with the right marketing i.e. a good poster sent around to all gyms, posted about on all main forums, potentially write ups on each competitor on bjj.ie etc. it could be a draw.

even if the 16 competing only brought 10 people each to watch, that's still 160 people which is a pretty good crowd!

lukeyjudo

NG-DOC wrote: »

i think with the right marketing i.e. a good poster sent around to all gyms, posted about on all main forums, potentially write ups on each competitor on bjj.ie etc. it could be a draw.

even if the 16 competing only brought 10 people each to watch, that's still 160 people which is a pretty good crowd!

That sounds perfect

Barry.Oglesby

r_obric wrote: »

First of all you would need a venue, easy enough to get.

The referee would be very important, at least 1 impartial ref with high level competition experience would be needed. That may involve bringing over someone or having this on when there is a seminar on.

I would pay in, and im sure others would, so maybe the entry fee could make some prize money...

Well if I'm going to do it, I'd want to do it somewhere with good spectator facilities and for grappling, that means tiered seating, but tiered in a tight enough space so as to provide an unobstructed view to everyone without the competitors being a mile away. In Ireland you're very, very limited and in those limited spaces you're going to pay a good bit for the space.

After that, you need a very experienced, impartial referee, not affiliated with any of the teams involved. You'd probably have to fly him in. He'd have to be paid, if not for the reffing at least for flights and accomodation.

Mat rental.

Equipment rental. I would want a display timer for the crowds and competitors. A PA system for announcements and we may need crowd barriers.

Then the biggy- the prize money. Winner takes all perhaps? Or should 2nd place get a token.

And of course, the title of Ireland's best grappler deserves a trophy worthy of the name.

And that's before we really get going!

Barry.Oglesby

Still going whiiiiirrrrrrrr in my head here. wrt to funding:

Ideally competitors wouldn't pay to compete but a fee would help with funding it. If it was collected say 2 months in advance it may also prevent drop outs. What would be the maximum anyone would pay to enter?

NG-DOC

Pontificatus wrote: »

I would love to see this in the Gi but have a feeling that No Gi would be more marketable. I assume it would be submission only or 10 minute rounds, open draw, no closing of brackets, ADCC rules for NoGi/Blackbelt rules for Gi? The finalists would have four matches so perhaps both Gi and NoGi is doable.

Are Irish in the UK invited, Paddy Carmody etc?

Edit to add: Would pay to watch

i definitely believe nogi is more marketable.

also getting paddy involved would be a great call

it would have to be submission only, or 10 minute rounds too. and definitely no closing of brackets.

4 matches of submission only/10 minute rounds, is definitely more than enough for one day thanks!

r_obric

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well if I'm going to do it, I'd want to do it somewhere with good spectator facilities and for grappling, that means tiered seating, but tiered in a tight enough space so as to provide an unobstructed view to everyone without the competitors being a mile away. In Ireland you're very, very limited and in those limited spaces you're going to pay a good bit for the space.

After that, you need a very experienced, impartial referee, not affiliated with any of the teams involved. You'd probably have to fly him in. He'd have to be paid, if not for the reffing at least for flights and accomodation.

Mat rental.

Equipment rental. I would want a display timer for the crowds and competitors. A PA system for announcements and we may need crowd barriers.

Then the biggy- the prize money. Winner takes all perhaps? Or should 2nd place get a token.

And of course, the title of Ireland's best grappler deserves a trophy worthy of the name.

And that's before we really get going!

i was at the 10k challenge in london a few years back, a theatre setting is ideal, from seating point of view.
the one in UL is a great venue, and has lighting, sound already, but from the point of authenticity and to be a success this would obviously be in cork.....

Barry.Oglesby

How about 10 minute rounds sub only and in the case of no finish, a further 5 minute overtime points round?

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Still going whiiiiirrrrrrrr in my head here. wrt to funding:

Ideally competitors wouldn't pay to compete but a fee would help with funding it. If it was collected say 2 months in advance it may also prevent drop outs. What would be the maximum anyone would pay to enter?

i think it's important that it doesn't clash with europeans barry.

i'm sure all serious players will be training hard to go represent ireland in portugal, and this should be the priority, meaning it would have to be march/april/may of next year.

r_obric

plus if it was going to happen I think the entry should be something like

anyone living in ireland currently, or any irish person, there are some savage irish compeditors in the UK.

and you have to have points, use the ADCC rules maybe

NG-DOC

r_obric wrote: »

plus if it was going to happen I think the entry should be something like

anyone living in ireland currently, or any irish person, there are some savage irish compeditors in the UK.

and you have to have points, use the ADCC rules maybe

i do agree with this...

but, i'd love to see a submission only event, it changes the dynamics so much. points in any way make for completely different strategies and quite often more boring matches.

Barry.Oglesby

In my head I've set a date of mid March for this. I was cogniscent of the Euros when we started talking.

Some very interesting venues cropping up. Would people prefer evening or daytime?

NG-DOC

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

In my head I've set a date of mid March for this. I was cogniscent of the Euros when we started talking.

Some very interesting venues cropping up. Would people prefer evening or daytime?

daytime would favour competitors, because we usually compete in the daytime!

evening would favour spectators though, i would think

Barry.Oglesby

Is everyone else as excited about this as I am?

Re: funding again as it looks like I'll be the man for that job. I'm sure every guy could raise €40 per head either through sponsorship or their team mates giving them €2 each. It would ease the burden of expense? Thoughts?

David Jones

If no one had any objections I would quite happily referee for free a submission only tournament if organised. ( I believe that would be grappling in its purest sense) Having refereed my own guys fight and on occasions given decisions against them I dont think I have to prove my impartiality.

lukeyjudo

David Jones wrote: »

If no one had any objections I would quite happily referee for free a submission only tournament if organised. ( I believe that would be grappling in its purest sense) Having refereed my own guys fight and on occasions given decisions against them I dont think I have to prove my impartiality.

Fair play Dave!

There you go Barry you just saved the cost of accomodation flights etc etc for a ref! I was going to say why should we look abroad for a ref when we have an excellent and impartial ref right here?

r_obric

sub only is a problem fights can go on for 30-40 minutes with one person getting destroyed but not tapped out.

if its submission only you dont really need a ref either..... the ADCC rules split this by having no points in the first 5 minutes and points coming into play after that for the last five minutes so more often than not you always have a winner. if its a points draw then overtime of 5 minutes but most fighter can and should be seperated within the first minutes...