Why do orchestras never play in cork?

Live at Three

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The Mad Hatter

Well, there isn't an over-abundance of orchestras in Ireland, so the couple we have are pretty strained to play all over the country.

Still, I've been to a couple of very good orchestral concerts in Cork - a good few years ago, mind - in the UCC Concert Hall.

clunked

Maybe the audiences are not there but it comes down to the cost of transporting an orchestra down to the 'Real' capital.

Live at Three

The audiences are definitely there. The few times I did get the chance to see something big in Cork, Tchaikovsky's Pathetiqe symphony in City Hall a few years ago for example, the venue looked very full. Nigel Kennedy sold out 2 nights I think. The Fleischmann choir played The Seasons with the RTE Concert Orchestra a few years back and sold almost a thousand seats in City Hall. The Irish Chamber orchestra played Beethoven's Symphony no. 7 about three years ago in the School of Music and it was packed. I've been in Cork for around seven years now and these are the handful of times I've got to see an orchestral performance. The Vanburgh string quartet played for free several friday lunchtimes in UCC last year, there was always a good crowd at them.

If it's well advertised, people will come. You don't have to try very hard to sell a Beethoven symphony.

I've seen orchestras play to packed houses in Waterford and Limerick too. If memory serves correctly I think the NSO did a tour of a Brahms symphony a few years ago. They did Dublin, Waterford and Limerick but skipped Cork!

Was just looking at the program for the NCH, you could see an orchestra almost every week in Dublin if you wanted. Down here it seems like every 2 years.

murphym7

Cork has always been the poor relation to Dublin in terms of visits by orchestra’s. The NSO used to come a lot more frequently but not anymore.

Your best bet would attend the local orchestra’s concerts – Cork youth orchestra does a city hall concert each year in December, Cork Symphony Orchestra does a city hall gig each year too – Julian Lloyd Webber was the soloist last year and you already mentioned the gig they did with Kennedy, I don’t know what they are doing this year.

If you jump on the NYOI website you will see when they are coming back to Cork, excellent standard really.

Basically we have plenty of orchestral gigs – just not many professional one’s

Live at Three

Thanks for the suggestions murphym7. Looked up the CSO site and it is non existent at the moment, and the NYOI are advertising a gig they did last July. Even if they had upcoming gigs this would only be 2 per year so I would have to disagree with you about Cork getting plenty of orchestral gigs.

I'm considering driving to Dublin to go to the NCH soon. Rachmaninov's second symphony is coming up and also a night of Beethoven 1st, 2nd and 5th symphonies. Well worth the hassle I think...you have to treat yourself from time to time......

Irishmaestro

They do play in Cork on occasion (like the Irish Chamber Orchestra), but you're right, orchestras do play very rarely down here. The whole country is very Dublin-centred anyway, and that probably extends to the classical music scene too. We're much better served down here in terms of chamber music - the West Cork Chamber Music Festival and the East Cork Early Music Festival for instance. The NSO almost never plays in Cork now - and I seem to recall one of their concerts earlier in the year being cancelled?

Basically, I think the problem is to do with the fact that the country tends to centre around Dublin (we've got the All Roads Lead to Rome syndrome), and the smaller cities like Cork, Limerick or Kilkenny tend to suffer from slight marginalisation because of that. Or so I think anyway.

westtip

Live at Three wrote: »

The audiences are definitely there. The few times I did get the chance to see something big in Cork, Tchaikovsky's Pathetiqe symphony in City Hall a few years ago for example, the venue looked very full. Nigel Kennedy sold out 2 nights I think. The Fleischmann choir played The Seasons with the RTE Concert Orchestra a few years back and sold almost a thousand seats in City Hall. The Irish Chamber orchestra played Beethoven's Symphony no. 7 about three years ago in the School of Music and it was packed. I've been in Cork for around seven years now and these are the handful of times I've got to see an orchestral performance. The Vanburgh string quartet played for free several friday lunchtimes in UCC last year, there was always a good crowd at them.

If it's well advertised, people will come. You don't have to try very hard to sell a Beethoven symphony.

I've seen orchestras play to packed houses in Waterford and Limerick too. If memory serves correctly I think the NSO did a tour of a Brahms symphony a few years ago. They did Dublin, Waterford and Limerick but skipped Cork!

Was just looking at the program for the NCH, you could see an orchestra almost every week in Dublin if you wanted. Down here it seems like every 2 years.

I am astonished Cork gets so little from the NSO, someone needs to grasp the nettle and campaign for it. They shoudl be there at least 3 or 4 times a year. Its a disgrace having read the comments on this thread.

murphym7

By quickly looking at the RTE performing groups site I see that every performance of the NSO is taking place only in the NCH from now until May 2011. That is a disgrace - maybe the NSO should now be called the RTE Dublin city symphony orchestra.

westtip

murphym7 wrote: »

By quickly looking at the RTE performing groups site I see that every performance of the NSO is taking place only in the NCH from now until May 2011. That is a disgrace - maybe the NSO should now be called the RTE Dublin city symphony orchestra.

I agree and I don't expect to see them in Sligo (nor should I) but they should be in Cork every four weeks IMO, and it could be done without an overnight stay these days - an express coach from Cork to Dublin in about 2 hours woudl get the ochestra back in Dublin by 1.00 am there needs to be some work done on this area and the only way you will change things is by campaigning for it to happen.

evolving_doors

Live at Three wrote: »

?

Isn't the vanbrugh good enough for ye

Max001

Its a disgrace. I exchanged emails with the Head of RTE Music a year or two ago on this subject and the guy completely ignored my complaint about the NSO rarely/never setting foot outside Dublin by quoting me statistics on performances by quartets etc. As far as RTE is concerned
everythings hunky dory. The ICO don't even come to Cork this season!

I do wonder about audience levels and I suspect this may have something to do with it. Lesley Garret was poorly attended recently and the audience was so luke warm, I'm sure she'll never be back. As someone else said though, good marketing usually makes for good audiences.

Compare the NSO with the Ulster Orchestra (which has a great outreach programme) which in some recent years played more provincial towns in the Republic than the NSO!

I moved to Cork in '05 partly because I thought it had a vibrant and growing arts scene. Soon as I complete my course, I'm outta here, to somewhere with an Opera House that actually has high quality live opera performances and where classical music doesn't mean four guys with strings and a tiny audience, which was the case only two weeks ago in the Aula Maxima

nickibopp

It's a real shame to hear your needs aren't met.

The school of music symphony orchestra is really very good but I know they perform rarely.

The monthly Irish Chamber Orchestra concerts are a big loss this year but audience numbers haven't sustained their visits.

Come and hear the Cork Symphony Orchestra play Rachmaniov piano concerto no.2 with Barry Douglas tonight Thursday 9th December!

Max001

nickibopp wrote: »

It's a real shame to hear your needs aren't met. Ain't it just.

The school of music symphony orchestra is really very good but I know they perform rarely. Sounds like an oxymoron and thats as polite as I can be. Why? Are they shy?

The monthly Irish Chamber Orchestra concerts are a big loss this year but audience numbers haven't sustained their visits. Marketing, marketing, marketing.

Come and hear the Cork Symphony Orchestra play Rachmaniov piano concerto no.2 with Barry Douglas tonight Thursday 9th December!

Love to. Since the CSO is impossible to find on the www, any clue as to where they might be performing or it that part some kind of test that classical promoters apply to Cork audiences ?

Ah k, City Hall, for anyone interested, but no mention of ticket prices. I did see something advertised at €35-€65+ if I recall correctly and as a student, much as I adore classical music, I decided to eat this week instead.

nickibopp

Hi Max,

I hear your pain on the ticket price it is saucy alright. My boyfriend is playing and I wasn't prepared to pay the price (as a full-time earner!) so i joined the choir instead to see it for free. Must admit I'm a touch gutted to be missing the Crash Ensemble as a result at the Pav but wow hearing Barry Douglas rehearsing for Rach 2 with the orchestra last night made me relax on that front a bit. For the silly money people pay to see crap pop acts I have to say the ticket prices will give value for those able to pay them. It will be quite a show.

As a student I hope you saw the Irish Chamber Orchestra for €5 at every visit they made over the last few years - it was amazing value and kind of depressing seeing so few students take them up on the offer.

You know there are lots of opportunities of seeing things for free. I help out at Orchestral Society concerts (yes, I'll admit, they are mostly chamber music concerts, but I also worked for NSO and ICO ones when they were about and the CSM orchestra gigs are part of the programme too). If you would like to be involved doing seating/taking tickets whatever and can be relied upon I would be more than happy to help get you in there.

Nicki

nickibopp

yes the CSO have failed the web community a bit. They are performing Rach 2 with Barry Douglas and then a Lyric FM lunchtime choice vibe selection of pot-boilers with Majella Cullagh and a 'specially-formed' choir.

I didn't spot your sweet-tempered reply in quotes by the way until now. The CSMSO doesn't perform very often because it takes alot to organise a concert of students who need ferrying round by busy parents, and people have limited time and money available. Marketing on a small budget is easier said than done, but hey, maybe you're the genius that will turn things around Max. Here's hoping one day you'll get to find out the reality of the making concerts work in the real world and put us all to shame with your achievements...

gbee

Live at Three wrote: »

Was just looking at the program for the NCH, you could see an orchestra almost every week in Dublin if you wanted. Down here it seems like every 2 years.

We simply don't have the market here. What you've said is true, however, I'll offer that any of the above would play to empty theatres if more dates were organised.

Ask the promoters, every year we have cancellations due to poor advance ticket sales, this is a market reality. Whilst what comes is greatly supported, it is to a small loyal audience that return again and again, rarely do we see new audiences arriving or audiences actually growing.

Whilst and international star like Pavarotti sold out Collins Barracks and had a one day extension, they'd not sell the fourth day, this is the problem, the Cork audience is finite ~ we know who is going to come to what.

Max001

nickibopp wrote: »

Hi Max,

I hear your pain on the ticket price it is saucy alright. My boyfriend is playing and I wasn't prepared to pay the price (as a full-time earner!) so i joined the choir instead to see it for free. Must admit I'm a touch gutted to be missing the Crash Ensemble as a result at the Pav but wow hearing Barry Douglas rehearsing for Rach 2 with the orchestra last night made me relax on that front a bit. For the silly money people pay to see crap pop acts I have to say the ticket prices will give value for those able to pay them. It will be quite a show.

As a student I hope you saw the Irish Chamber Orchestra for €5 at every visit they made over the last few years - it was amazing value and kind of depressing seeing so few students take them up on the offer.

You know there are lots of opportunities of seeing things for free. I help out at Orchestral Society concerts (yes, I'll admit, they are mostly chamber music concerts, but I also worked for NSO and ICO ones when they were about and the CSM orchestra gigs are part of the programme too). If you would like to be involved doing seating/taking tickets whatever and can be relied upon I would be more than happy to help get you in there.

Nicki

Sincere apologies Nicki, for my previous post which was a bit of a smart-ass response and not worthy of your contribution.
Did go to see the ICO at every opportunity as a student and am in awe of the sheer number of the events promoted by the Orchestral Society.
I'll PM you about and thank you for your very kind offer.

Max001

gbee wrote: »

We simply don't have the market here. What you've said is true, however, I'll offer that any of the above would play to empty theatres if more dates were organised.

Ask the promoters, every year we have cancellations due to poor advance ticket sales, this is a market reality. Whilst what comes is greatly supported, it is to a small loyal audience that return again and again, rarely do we see new audiences arriving or audiences actually growing.

Whilst and international star like Pavarotti sold out Collins Barracks and had a one day extension, they'd not sell the fourth day, this is the problem, the Cork audience is finite ~ we know who is going to come to what.

I'll defer to your better knowledge. As a blow-in from '05, I assumed Ireland's second city would be better served by its national orchestras. Thats what assumptions get you I can't afford to travel to the NCH often if ever and am hugely disappointed that the ISO has hardly ever
performed in Cork during my time here. Indefensible IMO. If the Ulster Orchestra can play theatres, town halls and concert spaces across N.I and even in the RoI, I simply don't understand why the ISO never ventures beyond the M50.

Live at Three

nickibopp wrote: »

The school of music symphony orchestra is really very good .

Fantastic orchestra...few chancers in the double bass section though maybe

nickibopp

Live at Three wrote: »

Fantastic orchestra...few chancers in the double bass section though maybe

:eek: Hey!!!

True, true! Just got new bass delivered, no excuses now. Forgot (ahem) rehearsal on Tuesday as I was taken up writing a hasty article for de paper about tonight's gig

nickibopp

It's tough with the NSO alright but don't see things improving much. The thing is - it costs (I have this figure in my head from somewhere, could be wrong but...) about €40,000 to bring down the orchestra for a night (- actually I imagine it's probably more...) For that much you could bring 600 people up on the train and pay for their tickets concert at the NCH! It's mad world.

Max001 wrote: »

I'll defer to your better knowledge. As a blow-in from '05, I assumed Ireland's second city would be better served by its national orchestras. Thats what assumptions get you I can't afford to travel to the NCH often if ever and am hugely disappointed that the ISO has hardly ever
performed in Cork during my time here. Indefensible IMO. If the Ulster Orchestra can play theatres, town halls and concert spaces across N.I and even in the RoI, I simply don't understand why the ISO never ventures beyond the M50.

murphym7

Just heard today that the Cork Symphony Orchestra is playing in the Opera House 13th April, a night of Tchaikovsky. The Nutcracker Suite, Violin concerto and my favourite of the night Tchaik 5, I played this as a kid many years ago.

Live at Three

Yeah was delighted to hear about that. Other orchestral stuff to look forward to..

Cork School of Music Orchestra are doing Egmont overture and Sibelius Violin Concerto on 16 April

Beethoven's First Symphony and 2 Mozart Concertos (Not named) on 5th May

Both in the Curtis Auditorium, Cork School of Music

murphym7

Live at Three wrote: »

Yeah was delighted to hear about that. Other orchestral stuff to look forward to..

Cork School of Music Orchestra are doing Egmont overture and Sibelius Violin Concerto on 16 April

Beethoven's First Symphony and 2 Mozart Concertos (Not named) on 5th May

Both in the Curtis Auditorium, Cork School of Music

Well still buzzing after last night - Maireád Hickey the violinist who played the Tchaik Violin concerto was unreal. I think she is just 14! - many of the Violin's in the orchestra were heard to have said they were all giving up. She was a little belter.

I wasn't blown away by the Aloys Fleischmann fanfare and the Nutcracker was grand (not a fan of it anyway) but Tchaik 5 was unreal. They did a great job of it. I was nervous coming into the second movement, but the Horn player (no idea of name) played the Horn solo perfectly. All in all a great night. Makes me think of playing again.

Max001

murphym7 wrote: »

Well still buzzing after last night - Maireád Hickey the violinist who played the Tchaik Violin concerto was unreal. I think she is just 14! - many of the Violin's in the orchestra were heard to have said they were all giving up. She was a little belter.

I wasn't blown away by the Aloys Fleischmann fanfare and the Nutcracker was grand (not a fan of it anyway) but Tchaik 5 was unreal. They did a great job of it. I was nervous coming into the second movement, but the Horn player (no idea of name) played the Horn solo perfectly. All in all a great night. Makes me think of playing again.

Sorry I missed Mairead Hickey. Couldn't afford the €25 tickets sadly. However, am looking forward to Saturday's concert, which may be my last in Cork.

Live at Three

murphym7 wrote: »

Well still buzzing after last night - Maireád Hickey the violinist who played the Tchaik Violin concerto was unreal. I think she is just 14! - many of the Violin's in the orchestra were heard to have said they were all giving up. She was a little belter.

I wasn't blown away by the Aloys Fleischmann fanfare and the Nutcracker was grand (not a fan of it anyway) but Tchaik 5 was unreal. They did a great job of it. I was nervous coming into the second movement, but the Horn player (no idea of name) played the Horn solo perfectly. All in all a great night. Makes me think of playing again.

Yeah I agree completely. The fanfare at the start was pretty dodgy, nutcracker was fairly shaky too. They only seemed to warm up when they got into the heavy stuff. The horn player played really well, was a relief alright after some previous brass bloopers. Was a pure rip off off of Annie's Song though.:)

The violinist was so innocent and unassuming looking, just added to the whole buzz of the performance. In technical terms I would have to say she kicked ass.