Are Hodgson and Liverpool done?

doc_17

Who are the who thought it was a good idea to replace a great coach with the man who once managed Malmo? Or the Swiss? I'll never call for him to be sacked. Give him the season. Lets review it at the end.

5ForKeeps

doc_17 wrote: »

Who are the who thought it was a good idea to replace a great coach with the man who once managed Malmo? Or the Swiss? I'll never call for him to be sacked. Give him the season. Lets review it at the end.

With a quarter of the season almost gone we are in the relegation zone. The merseyside derby is huge for him as our manager, defeat there and he should have the dignity to walk end of story before it gets worse.

Random

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++ edit
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Leiva

Random wrote: »

(Posting to subscribe on mobile theme)

?

Handsome Bob

doc_17 wrote: »

Who are the who thought it was a good idea to replace a great coach with the man who once managed Malmo? Or the Swiss?

I was one, and I can accept now that I was gravely mistaken.

Mental Mickey

Calling for him to be sacked so soon is ridiculous. I heard an interview with him this morning, and one of his quotes was: "you don't become a bad coach overnight".

He's not a bad coach, give him at least this season before calling for his head.

ShiverinEskimo

mixednuts wrote: »

?

He's posting so the thread is added to his subscribed list. There's no 'follow thread' button on the mobile site.

GavRedKing

When they sacked Rafa they made the wrong choice, but hiring Hodgson IMO wasnt the best idea either, I said it at the time too. They should have went for Maradona TBH.

Also, they wont get relegated.

ShiverinEskimo

I don't feel getting rid of Rafa was a bad move (paying to get rid of him was). Roy should be given more time but as has been said already Liverpool are underperforming however liverpool fans are over-expecting. Given the state of the affairs at the club and the players that were lost a mid-table finish is realistic.

Anyone blaming Roy for the squad and singing rafa's praises needs to remember that Rafa's 16m full back was at fault for both goals yesterday.

One thing for sure is that Roy is not being helped by Torres struggling for any type of consistent fitness.

Dont be at yourself

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I don't feel getting rid of Rafa was a bad move (paying to get rid of him was). Roy should be given more time but as has been said already Liverpool are underperforming however liverpool fans are over-expecting. Given the state of the affairs at the club and the players that were lost a mid-table finish is realistic.

Anyone blaming Roy for the squad and singing rafa's praises needs to remember that Rafa's 16m full back was at fault for both goals yesterday.

One thing for sure is that Roy is not being helped by Torres struggling for any type of consistent fitness.

Liverpool fans aren't over-expecting. Most expect a top 8 finish, which is where we should be. Is it too much to expect to be out of the relegation zone in October?

Rafa didn't pick the team or the tactics yesterday. He didn't play Carra at LB, Mereiles at RW, or Gerrard as a CM. He didn't sign Mereiles, he didn't sign Poulsen, he didn't sign Konchesky. He didn't motivate the players yesterday or manage their expectations so home draws are acceptable results. He didn't tell the team to stand off Blackpool when we were 2-1 down with 15 minutes to go.

For all of Rafa's faults - and he had many - he never set out a team that wasn't tactically assured and capable of winning. Can Roy say the same thing?

LuckyLloyd

Anyone saying our expectations are unrealistic and we have no right to be livid right now is smoking some awesome stuff. We haven't been in the relegation zone at this stage of the season since 1964. As such, how can anyone say that we are being unrealistic when we say this position and these performances are completely and utterly unacceptable.

Last season we spent the vast majority of the season in the top half of the table pushing for a top four finish. WE ARE GOING BACKWARDS UNDER THIS MANAGER. And fast.

mrgaa1

i've said it before bring in Martin O'Neill alongside Roy. Things are bad - the results are not telling lies.
However the players need to take a huge part of the blame. They are the ones being over-paid and under-performing. They would have to go a run till the end of the season of not losing any games and winning most of them just to try and get 4th.

ShiverinEskimo

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Liverpool fans aren't over-expecting. Most expect a top 8 finish, which is where we should be. Is it too much to expect to be out of the relegation zone in October?

Should? Why should Liverpool be top 8? This is exactly what I'm on about. Expectation based on some notion of devine-right.

Mental Mickey

gavredking wrote: »

When they sacked Rafa they made the wrong choice, but hiring Hodgson IMO wasnt the best idea either, I said it at the time too. They should have went for Maradona TBH.
Also, they wont get relegated.

I hope that remark was sarcastic???

cournioni

***SKY SPORTS BREAKING NEWS***
It has been announced that Liverpool FC have been refused permission to build a new stadium on Stanley Park.

The council said a fun fair once a year is okay, but a circus every two weeks is taking the piss!

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Should? Why should Liverpool be top 8? This is exactly what I'm on about. Expectation based on some notion of devine-right.

I love how you're making out that its almost arrogant to think Liverpool should be finishing in the top 8! :P

Here's a couple of reasons why we should expect to be finishing in the top 8:

1) We have a squad & first team which should comfortably be able to finish there.

2) Last season saw dismal performances & an injury epidemic to top players nearly all season, yet we comfortably finished top 8.

3) How many times have Liverpool finished outside the top 8 in the last 20 years?

4) The managerial change in the summer was a nescessity according to a lot of people because the manager had lost the dressing room & the players didn't want to play for him anymore which resulted in our 7th place finish, surely the same people should be expecting an improvement in performances & finishing place?

---

To say Liverpool should be finishing top 8 is no more of an unrealistic expectation than Utd fans thinking they should be finishing top 4.

BrookieD

Mr Alan wrote: »

I love how you're making out that its almost arrogant to think Liverpool should be finishing in the top 8! :P

Here's a couple of reasons why we should expect to be finishing in the top 8:

1) We have a squad & first team which should comfortably be able to finish there.

2) Last season saw dismal performances & an injury epidemic to top players nearly all season, yet we comfortably finished top 8.

3) How many times have Liverpool finished outside the top 8 in the last 20 years?

4) The managerial change in the summer was a nescessity according to a lot of people because the manager had lost the dressing room & the players didn't want to play for him anymore which resulted in our 7th place finish, surely the same people should be expecting an improvement in performances & finishing place?

---

To say Liverpool should be finishing top 8 is no more of an unrealistic expectation than Utd fans thinking they should be finishing top 4.

Spot on there matey

ShiverinEskimo

Mr Alan wrote: »

I love how you're making out that its almost arrogant to think Liverpool should be finishing in the top 8! :P

Here's a couple of reasons why we should expect to be finishing in the top 8:

1) We have a squad & first team which should comfortably be able to finish there.

I disagree. I think players like Poulsen, Maxi and Jovanovic do not equate to a comfortable top 8 finish.

2) Last season saw dismal performances & an injury epidemic to top players nearly all season, yet we comfortably finished top 8.

Your team has declined since then. Benayoun and Mascherano are simply better than their replacements.

3) How many times have Liverpool finished outside the top 8 in the last 20 years?

History doesn't get you points/places. This kind of belief in achievements of old and 'pedigree' is the root cause of the over-expectation.

4) The managerial change in the summer was a nescessity according to a lot of people because the manager had lost the dressing room & the players didn't want to play for him anymore which resulted in our 7th place finish, surely the same people should be expecting an improvement in performances & finishing place?

You've lost key players since then. With Alonso gone last year the Pool suffered without his link up play but ultimately endured because of the reliability of Mascherano and Pepe Reina. Both those factors are gone now. One permanently and the latter most likely temporary.

---

To say Liverpool should be finishing top 8 is no more of an unrealistic expectation than Utd fans thinking they should be finishing top 4.

United have added to their squad that finished 2nd last year by a point. United are playing very poorly at the minute by their standards and yet are still within touching distance of an extremely ominous Chelsea squad. 4th is a very real assumption for United at the moment, unlike top 8 for Liverpool given that things seem to be getting worse - so no, I don't feel there's any comparison.

I do not for one second believe that Liverpool are relegation candidates. But for people to be expecting and demanding a top 8 finish I feel is a little overzealous.

Essien

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Should? Why should Liverpool be top 8? This is exactly what I'm on about. Expectation based on some notion of devine-right.

The players Liverpool have suggest they should be in the top 8, it's in no way being arrogant for a Liverpool supporter to suggest this.

The Muppet

Hi Honey I'm home.

I don't see the quality in the squad that some have mentioned. It will cost alot of money to turn them into a top 4 team, we'll have to wait and see if anyone is interested in making that investment.

PHB

Sorry, any team with Gerrard and Torres in it have to be finishing in the top 8. There's really nothing more that needs to be said after that. Them on their own can win most matchs.

ShiverinEskimo

PHB wrote: »

Sorry, any team with Gerrard and Torres in it have to be finishing in the top 8. There's really nothing more that needs to be said after that. Them on their own can win most matchs.

Completely disagree. You think if you took Torres and Gerrard and stuck them in any other team that would get that team a top 8 finish? Incredibly naive.

everdead.ie

PHB wrote: »

Sorry, any team with Gerrard and Torres in it have to be finishing in the top 8. There's really nothing more that needs to be said after that. Them on their own can win most matchs.

Torres disintrested and out of form
Gerrard disinterested and playing badly

missingtime

Even Reina looks out of sorts these days. There is actually no one on the team that is performing anyway like they should be.

Ngog is the only one.

tribesman78

Mr Alan wrote: »

I love how you're making out that its almost arrogant to think Liverpool should be finishing in the top 8! :P

Here's a couple of reasons why we should expect to be finishing in the top 8:

1) We have a squad & first team which should comfortably be able to finish there.

2) Last season saw dismal performances & an injury epidemic to top players nearly all season, yet we comfortably finished top 8.

3) How many times have Liverpool finished outside the top 8 in the last 20 years?

4) The managerial change in the summer was a nescessity according to a lot of people because the manager had lost the dressing room & the players didn't want to play for him anymore which resulted in our 7th place finish, surely the same people should be expecting an improvement in performances & finishing place?

---

To say Liverpool should be finishing top 8 is no more of an unrealistic expectation than Utd fans thinking they should be finishing top 4.

Well i assume that's what leads fans were saying the season they had the champions league run. And personally i think they had a more talented squad and team then than ye do now. Everyone also never thought that Newcastle wouldn't go down and again had a very similar squad albeit ye do have a top class striker in Torres. If Liverpool are to get into Europe next season / avoid the drop it will all depend on him been fit and finding form again.

PHB

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Completely disagree. You think if you took Torres and Gerrard and stuck them in any other team that would get that team a top 8 finish? Incredibly naive.

I flatly believe, that Gerrard and Torres up front in a partnership would result in a team easily, easily, get above 55 points or so, which will get you into the top 8 most years. They just need to be playing at the same time and get fit. Once that happens, they will win enough of the **** games to get it done. If as a manager you can't make that happen, you need to hang up your boots.

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Your team has declined since then. Benayoun and Mascherano are simply better than their replacements.

Mascherano & Benayoun have been replaced by Poulson, Meireles & Joe Cole, its a downgrade alright, but not as massively as people think-especially over the course of a league

That is not near reason enough to feel that a team performed so badly last year yet finished comfortably top 8 should feel that the same target this year is beyond them.

event

PHB wrote: »

I flatly believe, that Gerrard and Torres up front in a partnership would result in a team easily, easily, get above 55 points or so, which will get you into the top 8 most years. They just need to be playing at the same time and get fit. Once that happens, they will win enough of the **** games to get it done. If as a manager you can't make that happen, you need to hang up your boots.

so put torres and gerrard into blackpool or burnley last year and they'd get top 8?

seriously?

jesus_thats_gre

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Completely disagree. You think if you took Torres and Gerrard and stuck them in any other team that would get that team a top 8 finish? Incredibly naive.

I don't think he means it in quite as simple terms as you are interpreting. I think you know what he means too.

edit: scratch that, it seems he does. Sort of see his point too.

jesus_thats_gre

event wrote: »

so put torres and gerrard into blackpool or burnley last year and they'd get top 8?

seriously?

Add 50 goals to their tallys and I would be surprised if they didn't shoot right up the table.

event

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Add 50 goals to their tallys and I would be surprised if they didn't shoot right up the table.

but how could you guarantee those 50 goals playing with inferior players.

Torres has been poor this season and most pool fans are saying its the service. why do you think that the service would be better at a team like blackpool or burnley?

its not like gerrard is going to dance round 4 players and slide the ball through to him, 3 times a game, every game

johnnyjb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Rafa won nothing for years. He took over a club in decent nick, had success in the early stages and then won nothing during the end of his tenure. That's called taking a club backwards in my book, especially since they were outside the top 4 by the end with a better squad than Hodgson has now.

I suppose selling Alonso and buying Aquilani was Hodgson's fault too?

Hahahaha, Benitez thought he was Del boy and ended being Trigger.

He inherited a good team and it fell apart after Champ L final.

Had he not won the CL i think he would of having the benefit of the doubt for so long. It was a poxy night for them and they thought it was a sign of things to come so they let him wreck their club with signings your nan would laugh at.

Im a Man Utd fan but liked watching the liverpool of the 90s and he was one of the factors that changed the club for the worse. Let them go back to their old english methods of roughhousing. Bring back Barnes

Oh ya Stevie G is also hiding major cracks in that team (obviously:rolleyes:)

aidan24326

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Add 50 goals to their tallys and I would be surprised if they didn't shoot right up the table.

So you're saying Gerrard and Torres are worth 50 extra goals per season? Come on now, they're good but not that good. Pele and Maradona might be worth 50 in a season. In any case both Torres and Gerrard are out of sorts at the moment, which only compounds the other problems.

SlickRic

johnnyjb wrote: »

Im a Man Utd fan but liked watching the liverpool of the 90s and he was one of the factors that changed the club for the worse.

A Utd fan who wants us to play the football of the 90s, thinks Benitez was cr*p, someone who made us more competitive on a consistent basis than we ever were in that decade.

funny that.

LuckyLloyd

johnnyjb wrote: »

Hahahaha, Benitez thought he was Del boy and ended being Trigger.

He inherited a good team and it fell apart after Champ L final.

Had he not won the CL i think he would of having the benefit of the doubt for so long. It was a poxy night for them and they thought it was a sign of things to come so they let him wreck their club with signings your nan would laugh at.

Im a Man Utd fan but liked watching the liverpool of the 90s and he was one of the factors that changed the club for the worse. Let them go back to their old english methods of roughhousing. Bring back Barnes

Oh ya Stevie G is also hiding major cracks in that team (obviously:rolleyes:)

facepalm.jpg

niallo27

johnnyjb wrote: »

Hahahaha, Benitez thought he was Del boy and ended being Trigger.

He inherited a good team and it fell apart after Champ L final.

Had he not won the CL i think he would of having the benefit of the doubt for so long. It was a poxy night for them and they thought it was a sign of things to come so they let him wreck their club with signings your nan would laugh at.

Im a Man Utd fan but liked watching the liverpool of the 90s and he was one of the factors that changed the club for the worse. Let them go back to their old english methods of roughhousing. Bring back Barnes

Oh ya Stevie G is also hiding major cracks in that team (obviously:rolleyes:)

Ah boy Johnny, great post, Jesus rafa really rattled you lot didn't he, he is gone months and your manager and utd fans are still talking about him.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

facepalm.jpg

I think

He inherited a good team and it fell apart after Champ L final.

is worthy of a couple of facepalms by itself:eek:

Handsome Bob

1. I'll never know how someone can refer to the likes of Igor Biscan, Djimi Traore, Milan Baros and the Harry Kewell that played for Liverpool as better players than what Rafa left us with. Then there's Dudek, a good goalkeeper, but Reina is just another class. Torres >>>>> Cisse.

2. People always, ALWAYS, under estimate the role of two Rafa signings (Alonso and Garcia) in that CL winning campaign. It was Garcia's goals that got us past Chelsea and Juventus.

3. And then of course there's the fact that Rafa brought Carragher's and Gerrard's game to a whole new level. Gerrard and Carragher under Rafa >>>>>>>> Gerrard and Carragher under Houllier.

All this being said, Rafa left us in a poorer situation in regards to full backs. That's the only strike against him in regards to the team he inherited and the team he left us with.

daveyboy_1ie

Cringeworthy stuff Johnny.

I think people need to take a step back and quit with the critiscm of Roy. He inherited far more problems than people give him credit for and although it has now been shown that Rafa had so much to handle other than just the footballing side of things, people need to give Roy a break. The players were pitiful yesterday and that’s nobody else’s fault. When Carragher & Reina are your only players to come out of a match with some credit at Anfield you have to ask questions.

Saying that, a couple of good results and suddenly top half of the table looks a lot better than things do at the moment. Maybe Roy won't be able for the big time, maybe he is, but no one can tell for sure after seven league games. At least give him the season to turn things around. He did not inherit a successful and talented squad like Rafa did, and has a lot more to rebuild than the Spaniard, and he certainly does not have the funds to build the team he wants to, or at least he does not yet. If he gets dumped out of all the cups by Christmas and is still in the lower half of the league come May then by all means, claim he has brought the club backwards. But two months into the season with never really being able to play his full team whilst they are all fully fit and up to speed is a bit harsh to judge him on. I don’t think Rafa would have done much more with the squad at his disposal.

ShiverinEskimo

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It was Garcia's goals that got us past Chelsea

Anyone else find this funny? :P

Handsome Bob

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Anyone else find this funny? :P

The record books don't lie.

jesus_thats_gre

aidan24326 wrote: »

So you're saying Gerrard and Torres are worth 50 extra goals per season? Come on now, they're good but not that good. Pele and Maradona might be worth 50 in a season. In any case both Torres and Gerrard are out of sorts at the moment, which only compounds the other problems.

Torres will get you 25 and Gerrard will get you 15 themselves. Both would easily get 10 assists between them.

Anyway, that isn't really the point I was making. The two would add a significant amount of goals and this would dramatically improve a teams points tally.

PHB

event wrote: »

so put torres and gerrard into blackpool or burnley last year and they'd get top 8?

seriously?

Yeah I really do. Two world class players make the world of difference to an entire team. Let me ask you this question, because Torres and Gerrard are currently tainted by association.

If you took United's greatest pairing in recent years of Ronaldo and Rooney and put them into Blackpool or Burnley, do you think that they'd take them to the top 8?

I know I would, and I think the same applies for Gerrard or Torres. I'm not saying its definate, a 100% chance, but any decent manager should be able to get that out of players of that class, and if they can't, they are doing something seriously wrong.

machiavellianme

event wrote: »

so put torres and gerrard into blackpool or burnley last year and they'd get top 8?

seriously?

Well Blackpool were in the Championship last year and finished in the top 8 without them, they're also level on points with 2 teams in the top 8 at the moment without them

event

PHB wrote: »

Yeah I really do. Two world class players make the world of difference to an entire team. Let me ask you this question, because Torres and Gerrard are currently tainted by association.

If you took United's greatest pairing in recent years of Ronaldo and Rooney and put them into Blackpool or Burnley, do you think that they'd take them to the top 8?

I know I would, and I think the same applies for Gerrard or Torres. I'm not saying its definate, a 100% chance, but any decent manager should be able to get that out of players of that class, and if they can't, they are doing something seriously wrong.

neither of them are tainted in my eyes, i can see beyond that.

but i dont think they would be enough to lift a very poor team to 8th

regarding ronaldo+rooney, i dunno, maybe. but only because IMO they are a much better pairing than gerrard and torres

pavb2

I personally think Roy is doomed due to the requirement for instant success.

If he was allowed to stay though I'd abandon Europa league throw in squad players (the ones you'd keep) and youngsters (if they have any) and focus on PL.

The Jan transfer window won't help much other than to offload a few players

Aim for 8th in league or above the important thing is to sort out the squad and all other off field issues unfortunately it seems the biggest issue is the owners.

Fuhrer

pavb2 wrote: »

I personally think Roy is doomed due to the requirement for instant success.

I dont think expecting anything other than abject failure is really demanding instant success

The Muppet

PHB wrote: »

Sorry, any team with Gerrard and Torres in it have to be finishing in the top 8. There's really nothing more that needs to be said after that. Them on their own can win most matchs.

PHB wrote: »

I flatly believe, that Gerrard and Torres up front in a partnership would result in a team easily, easily, get above 55 points or so, which will get you into the top 8 most years. They just need to be playing at the same time and get fit. Once that happens, they will win enough of the **** games to get it done. If as a manager you can't make that happen, you need to hang up your boots.

Thats one of the most simplistic and plainly wrong statements i have ever seen here. So one good striker one good Midfiled negates the need for any more quality Strikers Midfielders Defenders and Keeper. Two Players will neve make a team Irrespective of who they are.

How come West ham were not contending when they had Tevez and Macherano if that is the case? It's a team Game not one or two players.

jesus_thats_gre

The Muppet wrote: »

How come West ham were not contending when they had Tevez and Macherano if that is the case? It's a team Game not one or two players.

Tevez single handedly kept them up when he played towards the end of the season (scored all of his 7 goals for the season and got 5 assists in the last 10 games of the season).

Mascherano, despite being a completely different style of player to Gerrard, didn't actually play much for them.

Am quite amazed with just how bad that fail was.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Tevez single handedly kept them up when he played towards the end of the season (scored all of his 7 goals for the season and got 5 assists in the last 10 games of the season).

Mascherano, despite being a completely different style of player to Gerrard, didn't actually play much for them.

Am quite amazed with just how bad that fail was.

LOLZ There's a slight difference between Keeping them up and challenging for 8th or better which is PHB's point, They just about stayed up, it could be argued that they caused more damaged to the team than good.

One or two quality players in an otherwise mediocre team will get you nowhere.