Correct change not given...

rubadub

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

guy used to do the quays in Dublin, not quite as elaborate a story and only wanted 20 to get somewhere down the country.

My mate used to see this girl on and off when we were about 18-19. She was grand looking, well spoken etc and used to scab £1-5 off people for a bus fare or taxi home. Loads fell for it, probably thinking "that could be my sister/daughter stuck in town", I don't think she ever overdid the whole sob story thing. Many in that "real hustle" program do this similar scam, appearing to be similar to the mark they are conning, so they thing "that could be me".

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Some will say it’s an over reaction, but my time has been wasted and I now don’t feel secure handing over money in there especially to the same assistant.

Once bitten twice shy anyway. I am checking all my change these days.

gerrycollins

rubadub wrote: »

My mate used to see this girl on and off when we were about 18-19. She was grand looking, well spoken etc and used to scab £1-5 off people for a bus fare or taxi home. Loads fell for it, probably thinking "that could be my sister/daughter stuck in town", I don't think she ever overdid the whole sob story thing. Many in that "real hustle" program do this similar scam, appearing to be similar to the mark they are conning, so they thing "that could be me".

Once bitten twice shy anyway. I am checking all my change these days.

didnt the real hustle cover this one before where a well dressed business man outside a tube station with a few fake business cards asking people for a £1 or 2 as he left his wallet at home in the rush this morning and one of the kids just got sick at school and he was only a £1 short.

To those that gave him a £5 he offered his business card as colleteral but nobody called him back, however he made over £200 that day, and think of all the stations etc he could pull that on on for a week or so not bad way to make a few spare bob

91011

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Now while polite she at no time admitted that they had made a mistake and while I’m getting back my 10 euro it appears to be more a goodwill gesture. Are they instructed to do this because of worry of other action?

At the same time I defiantly did hand over that 20, if the till added up where did my 10 go?

1) The assistant on the till made several mistakes and it’s a happy coincidence everything added up. (It is possible)
2) The till was 10 over and they don’t want to admit their mistake.
3) The assistant kept the ten herself.

You forgot
4) You only gave them €10


What other action could be taken?. Seriously you are now making a mountain out of a molehill.

€10 on a days takings in a supermarket is tiny and well within plus & minuses. - Checkout operators are human and humans make mistakes. (maybe you're the exception) It is not for someone then to claim possible theft by a checkout person in some mad theorectical theft scam.


It is simple

You claimed that you gave a €20, they said you gave a €10.

Their till added up correctly, but they still are giving you the €10 you claim you are owed.

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Be happy and accept that case is over.


Finally - why not pay by laser?

seamus

91011 wrote: »

You forgot
4) You only gave them €10

+1
OP, you may indeed have only given her a tenner without realising it. I've done it myself, "I definitely had €20 in my pocket, where that other €10 go?". Then you play the whole day back in your head and you forgot that you broke your twenty earlier on in the day and you did indeed hand over a tenner.

It's unlikely that the shop would cover it up, that makes zero sense. It's also not very likely that the assistant pocketed the €10 after all that fuss. If she was making a regular habit of this, then she would have a plan where she hands back the money to anyone who catches her - she wouldn't go through the whole hassle of having her till counted for the sake of your €10. If this was a regular occurence she would risk losing her job.

It's possible that her till was way off that day and she gave some people back too much change. It would be unlikely that her till would exactly balance anyway, so if her till was maybe €3 over, they have no way of knowing if that's due to your tenner being in the till or because she forgot to give someone else €3 change (or 6 people 50c change). If she's new or generally incompetent, this is a possibility.

The shop are giving you the tenner because it's only a tenner. They would rather give it to you and have you spend it in their shop in future rather than stop shopping there and spend your money elsewhere. You got the desired result despite the facts not going in your favour.

Just on a side note - would you prefer that the conversation was had on the shop floor, "I gave you a tenner!", "Yes sir, but the till has balanced correctly, it's not over", or that it was had privately, over the phone, without anyone having to be embarrassed or annoyed?

smelltheglove

I find it strange that they didnt check the till straight away. Any store I ever worked in checked the till for short changes straight away, it takes a minute or two max, it makes the customer feel more secure knowing their issue is being dealt with and if the cashier was trying to swipe a few euro then it will deter them from attempting more often. I have been a supervisor and customer care assitant in a few different large stores and none of them had cctv on ach till, there would be a camera to cover all tills but not each individually.

Max Power1

Legally, the shop is not obliged to give change. If they do not refund you of their own accord, you will not be getting your money back.

There was a thread on this around here recently.

dlambirl

OP -
Did you get any joy??

Onthe3rdDay

91011 wrote: »

You forgot
4) You only gave them €10


What other action could be taken?. Seriously you are now making a mountain out of a molehill.

€10 on a days takings in a supermarket is tiny and well within plus & minuses. - Checkout operators are human and humans make mistakes. (maybe you're the exception) It is not for someone then to claim possible theft by a checkout person in some mad theorectical theft scam.


It is simple

You claimed that you gave a €20, they said you gave a €10.

Their till added up correctly, but they still are giving you the €10 you claim you are owed.

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Be happy and accept that case is over.


Finally - why not pay by laser?

No I gave them 20, How do I know, I took 20 out of the bank at the shop, I noticed that the note was dirty. I had no other money on me other than a few cent.

I'm not making a mountain out of a molehole as you say, If they admitted their mistake I'd be happy. The 10 they're giving back is a goodwill gesture rather than saying I was right. Why should I take my chances with my cash in that shop in the future?

I am happy that I got my 10 euro back and I have no problem with the shop. I didn't expect any more. I know mistakes can be made. In the past I've been given wrong change which was corrected there and then, I've even given back money because I got 10 and 20 euro too much in change.

However, I'd just rather not deal with a shop where they make mistakes and it puts me out. It's my right as a consumer.

You could just as easily be told that You're over reacting with your response to this thread. I am not upset the situation nor I'm I looking for extra, I was just retelling something that happened to me.

As for laser...We don't all have loads of money in our laser accounts all the time:D I,m operating on savings till the end of next week.

Onthe3rdDay

seamus wrote: »

+1
Just on a side note - would you prefer that the conversation was had on the shop floor, "I gave you a tenner!", "Yes sir, but the till has balanced correctly, it's not over", or that it was had privately, over the phone, without anyone having to be embarrassed or annoyed?

No I would have preferred the conversation on the shop floor, as I was in the right.

wench

smelltheglove wrote: »

I find it strange that they didnt check the till straight away. Any store I ever worked in checked the till for short changes straight away, it takes a minute or two max,

If it were just the cash in the drawer that had to be counted, then yes, its a five minute job.
However, any money that has already been lifted from the till needs to be checked. This could require security to come and collect the lock boxes from the tills, find all the drops related to that cashier, and then do the count.

rubadub

91011 wrote: »

It is not for someone then to claim possible theft by a checkout person in some mad theorectical theft scam.

It is not a particularly crazy or unusual idea/occurrence, I know many people have had the problem with barmen, as I said I had it in a takeaway just a few weeks ago, only a euro but if they get away with it on several customers a day its a few more quid "wages". In a way they are in effect saying he is trying to steal €10 from them by saying he only gave €10

91011 wrote: »

Finally - why not pay by laser?

I have no laser card, I do have CC and always pay with it for this reason, and to stop having pockets of change. The shop I was caught out in was lidl who do not take CC.

Nolimits

Max Power1 wrote: »

Legally, the shop is not obliged to give change. If they do not refund you of their own accord, you will not be getting your money back.

There was a thread on this around here recently.

This kind of comment is just smug and unnecessary. While it may be true, I'm sure the OP (or indeed anyone else) would not be shopping there if the shop didn't give change.

Dublindude69

Nolimits wrote: »

This kind of comment is just smug and unnecessary. While it may be true, I'm sure the OP (or indeed anyone else) would not be shopping there if the shop didn't give change.

I've fairly sure this is the exact reason the law isn't in forced in any way shape or form.

Corruptedmorals

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

No I gave them 20, How do I know, I took 20 out of the bank at the shop, I noticed that the note was dirty. I had no other money on me other than a few cent.

I'm not making a mountain out of a molehole as you say, If they admitted their mistake I'd be happy. The 10 they're giving back is a goodwill gesture rather than saying I was right. Why should I take my chances with my cash in that shop in the future?

I am happy that I got my 10 euro back and I have no problem with the shop. I didn't expect any more. I know mistakes can be made. In the past I've been given wrong change which was corrected there and then, I've even given back money because I got 10 and 20 euro too much in change.

However, I'd just rather not deal with a shop where they make mistakes and it puts me out. It's my right as a consumer.

You could just as easily be told that You're over reacting with your response to this thread. I am not upset the situation nor I'm I looking for extra, I was just retelling something that happened to me.

As for laser...We don't all have loads of money in our laser accounts all the time:D I,m operating on savings till the end of next week.

Yes you gave them a €20 but you have to understand the amount of times cahiers who deal with hundreds of transactions a day are faced with 1) change scams 2) People insisting they gave you a €50- oh wait no it was a 20 I have the €50 in my pocket haha- and so on. They don't know you personally, they can't take your word for it that that was the only money you had until the till is counted and it's out by €10ish OR it's picked up on CCTV- and any shop would be stupid to do otherwise. They gave you your €10 back- they should have apologised for the inconvenience moreso that the mistake- human nature etc. However if the till DID balance and they still gave you the €10, then they shouldn't apologise, they are placating you with no proof. Why blacken a store because ONE cashier made a mistake? You should try it, work a week of 8/9/10 hour shifts on checkouts and not make one single mistake.

91011

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

As for laser...We don't all have loads of money in our laser accounts all the time:D I,m operating on savings till the end of next week.

sorry, I thought by your earlier comment about the store losing your annual spend of €10,000 per year that with €200 a week spent on groceries the possible useage of a laser / credit card would be a reasonable assumption

Onthe3rdDay

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Yes you gave them a €20 but you have to understand the amount of times cahiers who deal with hundreds of transactions a day are faced with 1) change scams 2) People insisting they gave you a €50- oh wait no it was a 20 I have the €50 in my pocket haha- and so on. They don't know you personally, they can't take your word for it that that was the only money you had until the till is counted and it's out by €10ish OR it's picked up on CCTV- and any shop would be stupid to do otherwise. They gave you your €10 back- they should have apologised for the inconvenience moreso that the mistake- human nature etc. However if the till DID balance and they still gave you the €10, then they shouldn't apologise, they are placating you with no proof. Why blacken a store because ONE cashier made a mistake? You should try it, work a week of 8/9/10 hour shifts on checkouts and not make one single mistake.

I haven't blackened the name of any store, I've not mentioned any store name. I understand that mistakes can be made. At the same time by saying that the till balanced It could be said they're blackening my name. ( That's Just for example. The call I received was professional!) I know I handed over 20 euro. If the till balanced that meant that there was at least 2 mistakes.

If I make 2 mistakes in a day I'd be in big trouble in my workplace.

I have no problem with the store, I just choose to take my custom elsewhere.

Corruptedmorals

Anyone who establishes a pattern of till overs/unders gets warnings- so yes, they would be in trouble. I am just trying to emphasise the store's point of view- it is unfortunate but they have to treat people as potential scammers unless the till is out by the amount and should not be taken as a personal slight. Obviously the whole situation is annoying but the sheer amount of chancers means they can't take your word for it and chance the till being out. If it ever happens again, stand your ground and get the till counted- this is what is done in my store no matter how busy it is.

maringo

I wouldn't have moved from the till until a manager came and sorted me out with my correct change. Happened me once and they don't like you standing there and delaying the queue behind you so they are likely to sort it out pretty quick.

Dublindude69

maringo wrote: »

I wouldn't have moved from the till until a manager came and sorted me out with my correct change. Happened me once and they don't like you standing there and delaying the queue behind you so they are likely to sort it out pretty quick.

Unfortunatly scammers rely on this.

XxMCRxBabyxX

91011 wrote: »

You forgot
4) You only gave them €10

This happened to me with a customer when working one day. was handed a €5 and gave her the correct change to it. She then stood there insisting that she gave me a €20, even went so far as to ask me "do you remember me handing you the blue note". I was sure that I had been given a fiver but the shop was busy and I was still new and therefore nervous so I gave her the benefit of the doubt and her change as she insisted.

Later on in the day one of the other girls working with me who had seen what happened came up to me and said that the lady had been back in. She had remembered that she had actually spent that €20 and it was a €5 she had given me so came back with her change and apologised.

So it can happen although! Although I doubt so many people would be as honest as that woman if it had!

Max Power1

Nolimits wrote: »

This kind of comment is just smug and unnecessary. While it may be true, I'm sure the OP (or indeed anyone else) would not be shopping there if the shop didn't give change.

It is also relevant when people start quoting their "rights", all the while blissfully unaware that they do not posess said rights.

coffeenut

Max Power1 wrote: »

It is also relevant when people start quoting their "rights", all the while blissfully unaware that they do not posess said rights.

erm.... ? don't geddit

00112984

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

If they admitted their mistake I'd be happy. The 10 they're giving back is a goodwill gesture rather than saying I was right.

What do you want them to do, though? Pretend they were wrong so you'd feel happier about taking the tenner back?

Evidence on your side:
You only had €20 note plus change
You did not leave the store at any time before getting the €20 and paying for your goods
You have thought it over and are adament that you didn't break the €20 before getting to the check-out.
Your verdict:
You're in the right.

Evidence on their side:
They don't know you from Adam so don't have reason to be suspicious or not suspicious of your motives
They reviewed the float as part of a process they adhere to and didn't turn up with an extra €10
Their verdict:
They're in the right.

However, they want to make good and have given you the tenner as an act of goodwill even though they didn't have to.

Would you feel better if they pretended they were wrong? What more could they have done?

Honestly, I think you need to pick your battles. You got the best outcome and were dealt with in a polite and professional manner.

foggy_lad

smelltheglove wrote: »

I find it strange that they didnt check the till straight away. Any store I ever worked in checked the till for short changes straight away, it takes a minute or two max, it makes the customer feel more secure knowing their issue is being dealt with and if the cashier was trying to swipe a few euro then it will deter them from attempting more often. I have been a supervisor and customer care assitant in a few different large stores and none of them had cctv on ach till, there would be a camera to cover all tills but not each individually.

most stores now have cameras on each till showing the cash and also whatever items are being scanned and totals etc

Max Power1 wrote: »

Legally, the shop is not obliged to give change. If they do not refund you of their own accord, you will not be getting your money back.

There was a thread on this around here recently.

can just imagine tesco and dunnes not giving change! get real.

coffeenut

Max Power1 wrote: »

Legally, the shop is not obliged to give change. If they do not refund you of their own accord, you will not be getting your money back.

There was a thread on this around here recently.

i know that any more than ten times the value of your purchase isn't considered legal tender but never heard this one before - in any case, I would expect that this would only apply if you handed the cash over without specifying that you expected to be given change. and even if you didn't it could be inferred that you expected it by virtue of the fact that retailers always give change anyway and that the goods are priced so that you know what you're expected to pay?

Onthe3rdDay

00112984 wrote: »

What do you want them to do, though? Pretend they were wrong so you'd feel happier about taking the tenner back?

Evidence on your side:
You only had €20 note plus change
You did not leave the store at any time before getting the €20 and paying for your goods
You have thought it over and are adament that you didn't break the €20 before getting to the check-out.
Your verdict:
You're in the right.

Evidence on their side:
They don't know you from Adam so don't have reason to be suspicious or not suspicious of your motives
They reviewed the float as part of a process they adhere to and didn't turn up with an extra €10
Their verdict:
They're in the right.

However, they want to make good and have given you the tenner as an act of goodwill even though they didn't have to.

Would you feel better if they pretended they were wrong? What more could they have done?

Honestly, I think you need to pick your battles. You got the best outcome and were dealt with in a polite and professional manner.

If you read my posts properly you'd know I already said much of what you've just said. If you're going to pick posts to comment on you should perhaps look at all the thread first.

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

It is also relevant when people start quoting their "rights", all the while blissfully unaware that they do not posess said rights.

coffeenut wrote: »

erm.... ? don't geddit

as below

Max Power1 wrote: »

Legally, the shop is not obliged to give change. If they do not refund you of their own accord, you will not be getting your money back.

There was a thread on this around here recently.

seamus

foggy_lad wrote: »

can just imagine tesco and dunnes not giving change! get real.

That's because it's an accepted norm and morally the correct way to operate your transactions. If dunnes didn't give change but Tesco did, then everyone would shop at Tesco. So everyone gives change.

The legal situation (afair) is that a shop is not obliged to accept any amount from you except the exact amount. So in theory if the item is €20 (the offer) and you hand over €50 (acceptance), then you are paying the store more than they have asked for the item - as you're perfectly entitled to do - and the store are under no obligation to return the other €30 to you.

In reality the lines might be a bit more blurred, since when I hand over my €50 for the €20 item, there's an implied agreement that I'm only accepting the offer at the price which was offered and I am expecting to receive a refund for the overpaid amount. The shop is under no legal obligation to refund me that money however, I did hand it over freely after all.

The street vendors in Dublin used to be notorious for this back when I was a kid. If something was a pound, you gave them a pound. If you gave them a fiver, you got no change and had no legal basis on which to do anything about it.

Max Power1

foggy_lad wrote: »

can just imagine tesco and dunnes not giving change! get real.

I suggest you GET REAL yourself. Consult the relevant legislation and then come back.

Also, have a read of seamus' post above mine.

seamus

Here's the thread that Max is on about. From post 14 onwards:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056036617