Question re " juice levels" in a twin fluorescent tube fitting

Carlow52

Bought a twin tube fluorescent tube lamp fitting and when buying asked were there 1 or 2 ballast units in the fitting as I want to have one or 2 bulbs on, depending on time of day.

Was told there were 2, brought it home and there is only one ballast unit so brought it back to be told Credit Note only as there is nothing wrong with the fitting.

Is it feasible /safe to wire a switch into one of the wires from the ballast to allow one bulb to be switched off?

Thanks

M cebee

is it HF

don't think so if it is

Bruthal

I would think the high voltage from the ballast would jump the switch contacts as the other tube ignites. It would still prevent the second tube working but would`t be a great sutup.

But in the single ballast setup the tubes are maybe in series anyway so one switch in the loop there might prevent any tube coming on.

M cebee

if the fitting has 2 magnetic ballasts it's simple enough-most sparkies would simply use 2 fittings


there's prob something in the rules banning it:)

Bruthal

If its a 2 ballast fitting then a sparks could easily split it into 2 switched tubes. Seems not worth the hassle anyway though. Get 2 single tube fittings. OP said different times of day wanted to use 1 tube or 2. If you need 2 when dark then just use 2 when lighting needed.

OwenM

You should have gotten your money back, I would go back and refuse to leave until you do. Go i ten minutes before closing.
Tell them the item "is not fit for the purpose intended" and so you are entitled to your money back or a replacement with the fitting you want. You have a firm legal standing here and any competent retail manager will recognise the phrase "not fit for the purpose intended".

M cebee

OwenM wrote: »

You should have gotten your money back, I would go back and refuse to leave until you do. Go i ten minutes before closing.
Tell them the item "is not fit for the purpose intended" and so you are entitled to your money back or a replacement with the fitting you want. You have a firm legal standing here and any competent retail manager will recognise the phrase "not fit for the purpose intended".

maybe-it'll do what it's supposed to do

the internal wiring isn't normally modified

Bruthal

OwenM wrote: »

You should have gotten your money back, I would go back and refuse to leave until you do. Go i ten minutes before closing.
Tell them the item "is not fit for the purpose intended" and so you are entitled to your money back or a replacement with the fitting you want. You have a firm legal standing here and any competent retail manager will recognise the phrase "not fit for the purpose intended".

Why is it not fit for purpose? Its a twin flourescent light, and both lights seem to be working, its this not its purpose?

brightspark

The OP was told it was a two ballast unit, which he said he specifically wanted so he could argue it was not 'as described'

From the consummer connect website
http://www.consumerassociation.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=21

Know your Rights
Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:

•of merchantable quality
•fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable
•as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.
•When you buy goods from a retailer, you make a contract with him. He agrees to provide certain goods to you for a certain price. If your purchase turns out to be faulty, the retailer, not the manufacturer, is responsible to you and must sort out your complaint. You are entitled to a refund, a replacement or a repair.

Of course it's his word against the salesmans...

Bruthal

brightspark wrote: »

The OP was told it was a two ballast unit, which he said he specifically wanted so he could argue it was not 'as described'

From the consummer connect website
http://www.consumerassociation.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=21



Of course it's his word against the salesmans...

Yes but the item was fit for its normal purpose

brightspark

Yes, the item is fit for it's designed purpose, but the OP specifically asked for a two ballast fitting so it wasn't 'as described', therefore the OP shouldn't be claiming its not fit for purpose, but that it wasn't as described.

(If you bought a cake in a shop that you were told was coffee flavour, but was in fact chocolate, it would still be fit for purpose, but it would not be as described)

My guess is the salesperson didn't understand the question and just thought he meant it was a twin tube fitting

Bruthal

brightspark wrote: »

Yes, the item is fit for it's designed purpose, but the OP specifically asked for a two ballast fitting so it wasn't 'as described', therefore the OP shouldn't be claiming its not fit for purpose, but that it wasn't as described.

(If you bought a cake in a shop that you were told was coffee flavour, but was in fact chocolate, it would still be fit for purpose, but it would not be as described)

My guess is the salesperson didn't understand the question and just thought he meant it was a twin tube fitting

Yes but when you go in for a twin flourescent fitting you expect a twin flourescent fitting, you dont normally worry about what the internal workings are, he should of got him to open the fitting and look before he left the shop. I would think the salesman assumed because there are 2 tubes there must be 2 ballasts, all you have to do if its wire wound ones is look for 2 starters on the side of the fitting to show its 2 ballasts.

I dont think the OP claimed it was not fit for purpose, that was owenM.
Id say it would be hard to light the area with a chocolate cake though:D

indie armada

from a sales point of view, the seller should know if its a single hf ballast or a twin switch start fitting, it would be reflected in his/her cost from their supplier. if the op could post up a pic or the details of the ballast it help a lot.
could the op not break into the wires to the lamp holder and switch the 2nd lamp there or is there a higher current at that point for striking the lamp.
............mmmmmmm cake..arrrghhhhh

Bruthal

indie armada wrote: »

from a sales point of view, the seller should know if its a single hf ballast or a twin switch start fitting, it would be reflected in his/her cost from their supplier. if the op could post up a pic or the details of the ballast it help a lot.
could the op not break into the wires to the lamp holder and switch the 2nd lamp there or is there a higher current at that point for striking the lamp.

There is not a higher current really, its a high discharge voltage to jump down the tubes, then the ballast limits the current once the tubes ignite in wire wound starter type ones anyway, the switching with light switches has to be done on the supply to the ballasts,
it will probably stop the second tube working alright, but the gap in the switch will arc as the fitting is turned on, although that tube wont ignite, and some of the smaller length fittings have 2 tubes in series so if one tube was not in neither will light, but i think thats only in 2ft fittings that have 4 tubes, need a photo of the ballast as you say.
The seller`s often dont know these things, i often have to ask them to open boxes etc because they dont know exact details.

indie armada

robbie7730 wrote: »

There is not a higher current really, its a high discharge voltage to jump down the tubes, then the ballast limits the current once the tubes ignite in wire wound starter type ones anyway, the switching with light switches has to be done on the supply to the ballasts,
it will probably stop the second tube working alright, but the gap in the switch will arc as the fitting is turned on, although that tube wont ignite, and some of the smaller length fittings have 2 tubes in series so if one tube was not in neither will light, but i think thats only in 2ft fittings that have 4 tubes, need a photo of the ballast as you say.
The seller`s often dont know these things, i often have to ask them to open boxes etc because they dont know exact details.

i wouldnt have thought this cause there is a decent price differance, especially when you compare the price of a choke to a hf ballast.
yeah the 4x18 watt fittings have 2 36 watt chokes, one choke running two lamps. also if it was a switchstart fitting the op has, it wouldnt that difficult to change out the single ballast for two separate ones plus a second starter holder.

Bruthal

indie armada wrote: »

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i wouldnt have thought this cause there is a decent price differance, especially when you compare the price of a choke to a hf ballast.
yeah the 4x18 watt fittings have 2 36 watt chokes, one choke running two lamps. also if it was a switchstart fitting the op has, it wouldnt that difficult to change out the single ballast for two separate ones plus a second starter holder.

Well it depends who`s behind the counter maybe. I was`t talking about light fittings in my own cases about item descriptions, just in general. Anyway it seems a lot of messing thats not needed, get 2 single tube fittings. or just leave the 2 on together on that fitting. Or exchange it for a 2 ballast fitting in the same shop.

M cebee

not a bad idea all the same -if it complies with wiring rules


or is it?-maybe it's a load of nonsense:pac:

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

not a bad idea all the same -if it complies with wiring rules


or is it?-maybe it's a load of nonsense:pac:

What, rewiring the inside of the fitting, a bit mad i`d say, although after all the ideas and methods mentioned here, ye should be able to get a refund if the light is not suitable for what you want, even if it is for an internal rewire. But i cant ever see myself needing to do it.

I think i remember wiring the 600x600 4 tube fittings for suspended ceilings which had the option of 2 switch wires for 2 or 4 tubes to be on. I forget now though.

M cebee

maybe you're thinking of an emergency pack-a permanent feed


2 switch wires would be unusual

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

maybe you're thinking of an emergency pack-a permanent feed


2 switch wires would be unusual

No i have thought of that, i just remember all the fittings could have 2 tubes on or 4, at the end of the day any configuration could be made up by a manufacturer, but it could be my imagination alright, it was in intel i think.

It was`t the 4 terminals that made me think of it, it was the 2 or 4 tubes on in the fitting, emergency ones only one of the 4 tubes are on with battery i think. Its one of those things that i forget if i actually did see it done or not, thougth i did.

Bruthal

Probably did imagine it now that i think of it, electrical work is fast dissapearing into the depths of my memory

Carlow52

Did not expect this one to 'spark' such debate:)

Thanks, will get a second single tube fitting and live and learn