How's our driving? (Feedback for the forum)

homerhop

that red triangle on the left hand side

scudzilla

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether it is animal cruelty or not, I will point out that animal welfare legislation has changed since 10 years ago. Whether it is cruelty or not, it promotes animal cruelty. Some idiot who likes to knock 7 bells out of his dog for kicks comes along and reads that and uses it to justify what he does as it appears to him that it's perfectly normal to do so.

If a dog bites you, you have done something wrong somewhere along the line to start with. It is now widely accepted that it is wrong to use corporal punishent on children, pets or anything else. OP comes on looking for help with his dog and is told that he was right in what he did, clearly if he was he wouldn't need to come on to a public forum asking for help. The other issue is the fact that the handful of posts that were anyway relevent or helpful at all were completely lost amongst the 5 pages of bickering and absolute drivel that ensued. Of course all who contributed to it should be made accountable for it!



Your comparing animal welfare to soccer?! The lives of living creatures does not compare to a bunch of people kicking around a leather ball for recreational purposes in my book.

This is one of the reasons why the forum is in the rut it is, people just not properly understanding a post before jumping in with stupid comments. I NEVER compared Animal Welfare to football, i was comparing how the 2 forums were run, would i have got a few reported posts for that i wonder??

As for the previous comment, 'If a dog bites you, you have done something wrong somewhere along the line to start with', what a load of rubbish, some dog's bite and nip, it maybe in there nature, just as it's in a scumbag's nature to be a scumbag. As much as we love our animals, i i really do love animals and would never see one hurt, they are just that, animals, and yes, animals do bite

toadfly

scudzilla wrote: »

As for the previous comment, 'If a dog bites you, you have done something wrong somewhere along the line to start with', what a load of rubbish, some dog's bite and nip, it maybe in there nature, just as it's in a scumbag's nature to be a scumbag. As much as we love our animals, i i really do love animals and would never see one hurt, they are just that, animals, and yes, animals do bite

Sometimes dogs bite for no reason but if your dog is riled up, you pick him up and he bites you - that's your fault. No doubt about it.

Discodog

scudzilla wrote: »

This is one of the reasons why the forum is in the rut it is, people just not properly understanding a post before jumping in with stupid comments.
'If a dog bites you, you have done something wrong somewhere along the line to start with', what a load of rubbish, some dog's bite and nip, it maybe in there nature,

Well to me your comments are very ill advised & one of the reasons that this forum gets in a mess is because of comments like this. Presumably you think that some children are born bad as well. It is never in a dog's nature to bite or nip as you put it. I can 99% guarantee that if a dog is reared properly it will never bite. The 1% is to allow for medical problems like a brain tumour that may effect.

Discodog

TillyGirl wrote: »

Sometimes dogs bite for no reason but if your dog is riled up, you pick him up and he bites you - that's your fault. No doubt about it.

There is always a reason. The problem is that we don't bother to find out what the reason is. 9 times out of 10 the dog will tell you the reason if you are prepared to look for the signs. But if you can do this then you would of spotted the signs before it bit.

Cherry Blossom

scudzilla wrote: »

This is one of the reasons why the forum is in the rut it is, people just not properly understanding a post before jumping in with stupid comments. I NEVER compared Animal Welfare to football, i was comparing how the 2 forums were run, would i have got a few reported posts for that i wonder??

As for the previous comment, 'If a dog bites you, you have done something wrong somewhere along the line to start with', what a load of rubbish, some dog's bite and nip, it maybe in there nature, just as it's in a scumbag's nature to be a scumbag. As much as we love our animals, i i really do love animals and would never see one hurt, they are just that, animals, and yes, animals do bite

As the two subjects are completely different so the topics involved are completely different, the emotions they instill are completely different so therefore I would see it perfectly logical that the forums and moderation of them would therefore be completely different. How is this stupid?

How do scumbags become scumbags? They are certainly not born that way, it's a combination of their upbringing, the people they socialise with and events that have shaped their lives, the same things in fact that makes any of us who we are. I have been around dogs my whole life, purebreds, mongrals, working dogs you name it, I have never in my life been bitten by a dog in my care. I have been bitten twice by other peoples dogs while walking on a public road, both times by a dog that the owner has never bothered to or been interested in training in any way at all. You get out what you put in, if violence is what you put in then that is what you are going to get out. If love and kindness are what you put in then you get that back, and anything in between is the same. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one though. It's also somewhat irrelevant to the purpose of this thread so I would prefer to leave it at that.

Discodog

The one bit of relevance is that this type of post where someone says that, in effect, a dog is born vicious, is very provocative. If someone responds impolitely to this type of thread then there may be some justification.

It isn't just how someone responds it is also about what they are responding to.

shinikins

Sometimes though, people are responding to something that they percieve to be there.

For instance, the biting thread, the Op was jumped on for stating that he chastised his dog by way of slapping. People jumped on him as if he consistently slapped his dog, when that was just not the case. If someone had just asked "How often do you have to slap your dog" instead of "OMG i can't believe you abuse your dog" the outcome of the thread would have been better. I've said it so often, just read what your about to post and ask yourself does it read the way you intend it?

And there are dogs that are born with a bad nature. People forget that they are animals and sometimes that wild nature can rear its head. I have a massive scar on my hand to show for this, that came from a well bred, well trained and very much loved dog that just attacked without provocation. It does happen.

lrushe

shinikins wrote: »

Sometimes though, people are responding to something that they percieve to be there.

Exactly and that goes for the oversensitive types too, those who see bullying where none exists.

As for hitting a dog, short of the threat of death or serious injury there are no circumstances where hitting a dog is acceptable..

shinikins

lrushe wrote: »

Exactly and that goes for the oversensitive types too, those who see bullying where none exists.

As for hitting a dog, short of the threat of death or serious injury there are no circumstances where hitting a dog is acceptable..

Well tbh its attitudes like this that encourage those who do cause trouble on this forum.

Discodog

shinikins wrote: »

And there are dogs that are born with a bad nature. People forget that they are animals and sometimes that wild nature can rear its head. I have a massive scar on my hand to show for this, that came from a well bred, well trained and very much loved dog that just attacked without provocation. It does happen.

What you mean is you don't know why it bit. I will never accept that dogs or humans are born bad. A highly respected poster here, who has worryingly disappeared, owns a dog that was bred in the UK for fighting. It came from the best fighting stock & was guaranteed to be aggressive - it sleeps with her child.

Now we are dragging this thread off topic - sorry Mods but it does illustrate the problem rather well. The op in the dog bit thread did not mention hitting a dog more than once but other posters did. If any forum featured a post with comments like I hit my kids or I like to rob houses they would be slammed for illegal & immoral practises. Many of us & the law of Ireland say that repeatedly hitting a dog or even hitting it once could constitute unnecessary suffering & be illegal. When we eventually get an Animal Welfare Bill, like the rest of civilise Europe it will be very illegal.

It seems odd that breaking animal law can be discussed as if it doesn't matter.

pokertalk

Discodog wrote: »

.

.The op in the dog bit thread did not mention hitting a dog more than once but other posters did.

he did mention hitting his dog before the biting ,for things like jumping up on people

Discodog

And there's me giving him the benefit of the doubt

Cherry Blossom

pokertalk wrote: »

he did mention hitting his dog before the biting ,for things like jumping up on people

And for 'humping' I believe this was all edited out this morning.

pokertalk

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

And for 'humping' I believe this was all edited out this morning.

why was this post edited

Cherry Blossom

pokertalk wrote: »

why was this post edited

Three pages worth of posts from that thread were deleted for breaking of the forum rules, references to animal cruelty is one of the rules.

shinikins

Discodog wrote: »

What you mean is you don't know why it bit. I will never accept that dogs or humans are born bad. A highly respected poster here, who has worryingly disappeared, owns a dog that was bred in the UK for fighting. It came from the best fighting stock & was guaranteed to be aggressive - it sleeps with her child.

Now we are dragging this thread off topic - sorry Mods but it does illustrate the problem rather well. The op in the dog bit thread did not mention hitting a dog more than once but other posters did. If any forum featured a post with comments like I hit my kids or I like to rob houses they would be slammed for illegal & immoral practises. Many of us & the law of Ireland say that repeatedly hitting a dog or even hitting it once could constitute unnecessary suffering & be illegal. When we eventually get an Animal Welfare Bill, like the rest of civilise Europe it will be very illegal.

It seems odd that breaking animal law can be discussed as if it doesn't matter.

No, thats not what i mean. The dog, as i said was extremely well trained, from a very good bloodline, was extremely well cared for by its owners, and treated no differently than their other dogs. He still had a habit of biting people at random moments(this dog did not have any medical issues whatsoever btw) I don't know why it's so hard for people in general to understand that even though dogs are domesticated animals, they still have wild traits that can and will pop up.

The issue with that thread, as i see it, is not the issue of cruelty to animals, which is against forum charter, but rather the fact that people decided to attack the OP on thread. They could easily have reported it, but didn't.

Discodog

shinikins wrote: »

No, thats not what i mean. The dog, as i said was extremely well trained, from a very good bloodline, was extremely well cared for by its owners, and treated no differently than their other dogs. He still had a habit of biting people at random moments(this dog did not have any medical issues whatsoever btw) I don't know why it's so hard for people in general to understand that even though dogs are domesticated animals, they still have wild traits that can and will pop up.

We will have to disagree.

shinikins

Discodog wrote: »

We will have to disagree.

Thats fine.

Another thing i find strange is that people expect cats to sometimes lash out for no reason, and tolerate that and accept it, but if a dog does the same, then there has to be a reason for it! Cats have been domesticated for as long as dogs have.

pokertalk

shinikins wrote: »

Thats fine.

Another thing i find strange is that people expect cats to sometimes lash out for no reason, and tolerate that and accept it, but if a dog does the same, then there has to be a reason for it! Cats have been domesticated for as long as dogs have.

imo cats have a reason for lashing out also

lrushe

shinikins wrote: »

Well tbh its attitudes like this that encourage those who do cause trouble on this forum.

But you can't have one rule for one 'group' of people and one for another if there are "people are responding to something that they percieve to be there"

shinikins

lrushe wrote: »

But you can't have one rule for one 'group' of people and one for another if there are "people are responding to something that they percieve to be there"

Well, when you have one group of people who are breaking the rules, and another who aren't, then you shoul have seperate rules. Are you proposing punishing people who report bad behaviour, in the interests of being "fair" ???

lrushe

So people who precieved there to be a problem in the "dog bit me" thread with the OP hitting his/her dog should be punished.

But the people who precieve there to be bullying when they might just be 'over sensitive' to a comment shouldn't.

In both cases are you are at the mercy of people's perception.
Both are adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5, they are reading between the lines and see things that either weren't meant or never said at all. This is the point I am trying to make.

shinikins

lrushe wrote: »

So people who precieved there to be a problem in the "dog bit me" thread with the OP hitting his/her dog should be punished.

But the people who precieve there to be bullying when they might just be 'over sensitive' to a comment shouldn't.

In both cases are you are at the mercy of people's perception.
Both are adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5, they are reading between the lines and see things that either weren't meant or never said at all. This is the point I am trying to make.

Thats your "perception" if you will. :rolleyes:

There is one flaw to your argument. Those that see bullying have reported it to the mods, those that saw abuse in the Dog Bit thread went completely off topic and abused the OP on thread. If they want to be treated in the same way then they should follow the same rules. Only fair that the latter group be punished, as they were the group who broke the charter. What you seem to be proposing is that both sides be treated in the same manner, which is absurd.

Cherry Blossom

shinikins wrote: »

Thats your "perception" if you will. :rolleyes:

There is one flaw to your argument. Those that see bullying have reported it to the mods, those that saw abuse in the Dog Bit thread went completely off topic and abused the OP on thread. If they want to be treated in the same way then they should follow the same rules. Only fair that the latter group be punished, as they were the group who broke the charter. What you seem to be proposing is that both sides be treated in the same manner, which is absurd.

There were also people who abused other posters on that thread who simply said positive training was a better option and people who reported 'cruelty' posts. Just FYI.

Completely crazy idea that treating everyone equally, what is the world comming to? :rolleyes:

shinikins

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

There were also people who abused other posters on that thread who simply said positive training was a better option and people who reported 'cruelty' posts. Just FYI.

I'm well aware of that, but Irushe stated

So people who precieved there to be a problem in the "dog bit me" thread with the OP hitting his/her dog should be punished.

so i'm using the same group of people as an example to save confusion.

Completely crazy idea that treating everyone equally, what is the world comming to?

Lol, if life were fair, we wouldn't have any need for this thread!!

Cherry Blossom

Making reference to animal cruelty is also against the charter, so both 'sides' should be dealt with similarly. I see two completely different 'sides' tbh, people who post in an appropriate manner which is respectful to others and their opinions and those who don't.

Whispered

I didn't read the thread until it was edited - but to be honest the fact the mods edited a lot of the crap out and there is STILL a reference to a punch setting ground rules makes me wonder how bad the whole thread was. :eek:

Zapperzy

Whispered wrote: »

I didn't read the thread until it was edited - but to be honest the fact the mods edited a lot of the crap out and there is STILL a reference to a punch setting ground rules makes me wonder how bad the whole thread was. :eek:

I didn't think the references to punching the dog were bad, maybe Im naive but what I gathered by it was he got a shock when his dog latched onto him and hit him, he said he slapped the dog a few times before just to get his attention. Maybe I am naive but I will admit to tapping my dog on the butt a few times to get his attention, this is what I thought he meant but maybe I was wrong. He even admitted what he done was wrong and felt bad about it. I think it was just the wrong choice of words that was used.

Most of what was edited out of the thread was posters going way off topic and argueing with him how cruel he was and what they would do when a dog attacks them.

lrushe

shinikins wrote: »

Those that see bullying have reported it to the mods, those that saw abuse in the Dog Bit thread went completely off topic and abused the OP on thread.

And those in the 'Pug for Xmas' thread didn't just report the 'bullying' they too went completely off topic.