How's our driving? (Feedback for the forum)

gucciali

I think i will definately stick it out there are a lot of really nice people here as well as the ott posters , i enjoy this forum as a whole , its very informative on all aspects , so yes i think i will stay .

antomagoo

seamus wrote: »

Can you both see the pattern here?

Was just about to post,

Wheres Seamus?

:D:D

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

We all started somewhere in the forum, we are all subjct to condescending posts and downright ignorant and rude posts. Some people stick it out and become part of the forum - others find it too much.

But why should someone have to "stick it out" to become part of the forum??Its not right in my opinion.Everyone should be welcome from their first post in the forum and not have to put up with "condescending posts and downright ignorant and rude posts" to be part of the forum.

All we can really hope is that the few posters who go ott can see how it's not really helpful at all. Rude posting, being ignorant or jumping down peoples throats will never achieve anything.

I have pm`s here from users who have told me that they will never post in the forum again because of the attitude of a core group of posters.

The most important thing for me is to have somewhere to go to chat about the pets, get advise and where necessary take critisism. I think everyone is here for the good of their pets or animals in general. I also think that people should be able to contribute to the forum without people waiting to critisise.

Thats what the forum is supposed to be for but over the last while I feel that its not achieving that.

Whispered

seamus wrote: »

Which is typical of most forums on boards; I've been looking out for it this morning. It's not bullying, IMO. This is a discussion forum, people are entitled to give their opinion. Complaining about bullying because a poster has been told that they're wrong, is OTT. A poster should be capable of defending their position, they don't need a knight in shining armour to fight their corner.

+1

Nobody was bullied - the accusations were silly and served only to make the situation worse.

seamus wrote: »

That said, dragging the thread off-topic in order to give the poster a lecture is not what's needed. Sure, you can add some suggestions as in, "In order to avoid your dog getting pregnant again, you should have her spayed, for these reasons: <insert>", but telling them more-or-less that they're a ****ing eejit is not helpful or useful.

Of course, separating the wheat from the chaff is easier than it looks. We need a flexible policy in which to deal with this. Off-topicness isn't bad, necessarily. Telling a pug-wanter that any reputable breeder won't have puppies over christmas, is not irrelevant advice. Telling a bitch owner to have his bitch spayed before/after giving birth is not irrelevant advice.

But delivery is a whole other matter.

The problem though is people have different opinions on what is and is not acceptable to post, what delivery is ok and whats not etc. For example I though that besides one cliched comment in the pug thread and all of the posts in the workies thread were fine. But people obviously still took offense to them.

I believe commenting on the threads about other posts shouldn't be allowed. Maybe this thread could be left open for discussion about things like that?

seamus wrote: »

What I think will go a long way towards helping is to compile a list of commonly-asked questions, such as, "How do I recognise a reputable breeder" or "Should I get my dog spayed?" and then add them to a sticky at the top of the forum. So when the thread comes along, rather than foam at the mouth and get annoyed at the ignorance, you can simply say, "There's a thread full of useful info here.".

We're getting our FAQ's? Great.

It was brought up before how the info which goes into it is compiled. How to choose the right info, opinions etc.

seamus wrote: »

But how do we deal with this in future? You guys tell us? Should we start handing out infractions for advice which is needlessly harsh or unwelcome? It's a pretty grey and subjective area?.

Commenting on a persons posting style on thread only gets people annoyed. Could we agree to keep comments on the forum as a whole to this thread? At least it would stop threads going off topic.

People don't come here to be to be insulted. So if someone calls someone names, swears at them or is overly agressive then a warning could be given. So if someone posted saying " FFS you idiot why would you blah blah" thats clearly not going to help. Unfortunately it's not usually that easy for you! What some people may see as curt advice, others see as really insulting.

The whole "dangerous" dog issue is one very close to my heart. I do get annoyed, although I would like to think most people keep some civility about their posts and don't need to resort to firing insults. I'm constantly impressed with the RB owners in this forum and their ability to express their love for their pets and their dissatisfaction with how these breeds are protrayed.

liah wrote: »

Also, I still think some people could learn to phrase things differently...

+1

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

But why should someone have to "stick it out" to become part of the forum??Its not right in my opinion.Everyone should be welcome from their first post in the forum and not have to put up with "condescending posts and downright ignorant and rude posts" to be part of the forum.

I 100% agree - what I mean is; in every forum you get the posts you don't like. It's a part of boards and you can't babysit every poster.

Things have been a lot better lately I thought - but that could be because I usually tend to ignore the posts I don't like? I definately think people should count to ten before they post sometimes, but likewise I think others need to learn to just ignore posts instead of getting really insulted. I understand it at times - but other times it's just silly.

Again though, it's all about opinion isn't it.

Hellrazer wrote: »

I have pm`s here from users who have told me that they will never post in the forum again because of the attitude of a core group of posters.

Would it be possible in future, if you get a pm where a user is so insulted they feel that way - for you to comment on thread. I think it's a bit grey at the moment as to what is and isn't acceptable.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Thats what the forum is supposed to be for but over the last while I feel that its not achieving that.

Personally I've been enjoying the forum a lot lately. But the last week or so I've been reluctant to post due to "bullying" accusations and posters waiting on the sidelines to jump in and - as seamus said - be like a knight in shining armour. Not that I don't want to defend myself or even feel there is anything to defend - but it's been hard to have a conversation without it being pulled off topic and it's frustrating.

Can we agree that the place to complain is not on thread - it would be better to report the offensive post and/or comment on it here.

Open conversation like that, if done in an inoffensive way, could serve to help everyone understand where the problems are coming from?

Calhoun

Whispered wrote: »

+1

Nobody was bullied - the accusations were silly and served only to make the situation worse.

The problem though is people have different opinions on what is and is not acceptable to post, what delivery is ok and whats not etc. For example I though that besides one cliched comment in the pug thread and all of the posts in the workies thread were fine. But people obviously still took offense to them.

I'm in work so i dont have time to deal with all your post but i will deal with the ones that stood out.

I agree nobody was being bullied but what you had was a core niche of group who supported each other and built up a culture of as Seamus put it "Mammy knows best posting". From an outsider or a newbie looking it it could be perceived as bullying as you could get someone ripping a newbie to shreds and when challenged the same group of people would defend their actions.

I dont buy the people have different opinion on what is or isnt acceptable to post to a point, in general rational people understand the message they are broadcasting and if they forget or post in a general way by habit they need to be challenged.

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

Would it be possible in future, if you get a pm where a user is so insulted they feel that way - for you to comment on thread. I think it's a bit grey at the moment as to what is and isn't acceptable.

To be honest I usually do post after either receiving a pm or a post is reported.

Can we agree that the place to complain is not on thread - it would be better to report the offensive post and/or comment on it here.

This is something that Ive been asking for nearly 4 years now.People are reluctant to report posts and prefer to argue it out on thread.If everyone reported post then we wouldnt be here because it would be nipped in the bud straight away but as it stands now the thread is only reported after it has already descended into chaos.

liah

Hellrazer wrote: »

To be honest I usually do post after either receiving a pm or a post is reported.



This is something that Ive been asking for nearly 4 years now.People are reluctant to report posts and prefer to argue it out on thread.If everyone reported post then we wouldnt be here because it would be nipped in the bud straight away but as it stands now the thread is only reported after it has already descended into chaos.

As I asked earlier, what is okay to report and what isn't?

When there's no clear guideline a lot of users feel it to be imposing if they report something that isn't in a direct breech of charter. Or at least, I know I always feel confused about what to do.

Whispered

@Calhoun

But it is a matter of opinion because in both those threads I don't think anybody was "ripped to shreds" until people started getting insulting.

There have been occasions where I would agree with you - but not in those threads.

I wonder how to adress it when a group of people agree with each other. Is it still "mammy knows best"? Where do you draw a line? I see the problem, but I just don't see the solution beyond people watching how they say things.

@Hellrazer
I've been reporting posts lately You're probably sick reading them!

Hellrazer

Calhoun wrote: »

I agree nobody was being bullied

Likewise I also agree that nobody was bullied but it could be percieved as bullying.

but what you had was a core niche of group who supported each other and built up a culture of as Seamus put it "Mammy knows best posting".

Im going to be straight up here and say that yes there is a core group of users constantly defending each other.These users frequent other forums (not on boards.ie) and when something happens here the other forum starts buzzing with requests for these users to post on boards.Ive witnessed this myself mainly on facebook pages where one or two of these users openly slagged me off.
Some of these users have also been banned from other forums and use board as an outlet for their opinions.
Tbh Im above that and let them continue to post here and they still post here.

From an outsider or a newbie looking it it could be perceived as bullying as you could get someone ripping a newbie to shreds and when challenged the same group of people would defend their actions.

Exactly-why cant we all just be nice and get on with the issue at hand ie our pets and how best to look after them.

Hellrazer

liah wrote: »

As I asked earlier, what is okay to report and what isn't?

As far as Im concerned anything that a user is uncomfortable with is ok to report.

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im going to be straight up here and say that yes there is a core group of users constantly defending each other.These users frequent other forums (not on boards.ie) and when something happens here the other forum starts buzzing with requests for these users to post on boards.Ive witnessed this myself mainly on facebook pages where one or two of these users openly slagged me off.
Some of these users have also been banned from other forums and use board as an outlet for their opinions.
Tbh Im above that and let them continue to post here and they still post here.

Frankly that is disgusting behaviour and the forum may be better off without that sort of poster?

I find it distasteful to ever cross thread argue, never mind cross forum. :mad:

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

Frankly that is disgusting behaviour and the forum may be better off without that sort of poster?

I cant punish someone if they havent broken a rule on boards.Posting that hellrazer is a facist and a b***ox(thats the milder stuff) on facebook unfortunately doesnt fall into that category.

shinikins

I haven't been posting very often due to other commitments, and i'll freely admit that even when i do read threads i tend not to post, as there is a clique who are aggressive and condescending, and i tbh i would react in the same way that Liah did. For the record i agree wholeheartedly with her, and her style of posting, she set out to get everyones attention and she succeeded, and hopefully people will take notice. She may have used some colourful language, but i prefer her no bull attitude to someone being snide and aggressive but couching it in polite words to disguise the fact that they are being bitchy.

@Whispered you say "Nobody was bullied", well there are bullies present here, there may not be specific examples in the Pug thread, but it is definitely present throughout the forum. the clique that post are rude and dismissive, they back each other up, thank each others posts and exclude anyone else who has an opinion. As Hellrazer said, "there is a core group of users constantly defending each other" and these would be the bullies i speak of.

People come here for advice, not to be put down by those who want to feel superior just because they have been breeding pedigree dogs all their lives, or work in rescue centres and feel they know better than anyone else. These are not specific examples by the way, I'm a Vet. Nurse myself, but i don't consider myself to be better than anyone else, and i hope i don't come across as condescending when i mention that fact. Everyday is a schoolday for me-i'm always interested in learning something new, but there are those who have their preconcieved idea's and opinions, and come hell or high water they try to push, ram and bully others into agreeing with them on whatever topic is at hand.

At the end of the day everyone needs to self moderate more, read your posts before you submit them. Ask yourself whether it could be misread, or if you might not be conveying your true sentiments. Justifying bitchiness by telling yourself that it's the truth is only going to get everyones hackles up, and damage this forum.

Whispered

There would be no way of putting into the charter that you cannot go into other forums to look for "back up".

Can you tell us who these posters are? I'm struggling to think of people who would be so nasty. Is it the same people, are we talking one or two or is it a larger group of regular posters?

I suppose you can't say but to be honest I'm really shocked at that and would prefer not to be associated with posters like that. It's disgusting.:mad:

seamus

shinikins wrote: »

People come here for advice, not to be put down by those who want to feel superior just because they have been breeding pedigree dogs all their lives, or work in rescue centres and feel they know better than anyone else.

I don't think anyone's intention is to feel superior. It's genuine frustration at what seems to be a losing battle in terms of animal welfare.

Anyone who works in rescue tends to develop a certain amount of fatigue about the public. They spend their days fielding ignorant questions from the public and handle insanely cruel and negligent cases and suggestins. It's only natural that they become short and intolerant of this. It's not like customer service where you smile and nod and go home and switch off. Rescuing is a vocation so people can't switch themselves off.
One of the milder stories I heard recently was a woman who rang a rescue looking for a dog for her 8-year-old son. She didn't really like dogs at all, but her son seemed to, so she wanted one. And she predicatly went mad when she was told where to go. Dealing with that kind of thing all day is bound to make you less tolerant of most questions.

So recognising context is important. Curt responses are fine in a rescue, if that's the way it's done. And people will often recognise that someone working in a rescue is an authority and curtness is somewhat forgiven. On here though you're just one person speaking to another - they've no idea who you are or why you're seemingly so hostile. Instead of perhaps considering where you're coming from, well you're the ignorant bastard and the poster simply doesn't come back.

I'll start working on the FAQs. At least then you can be curt without appearing rude

Whispered

shinikins wrote: »

I haven't been posting very often due to other commitments, and i'll freely admit that even when i do read threads i tend not to post, as there is a clique who are aggressive and condescending, and i tbh i would react in the same way that Liah did. For the record i agree wholeheartedly with her, and her style of posting, she set out to get everyones attention and she succeeded, and hopefully people will take notice. She may have used some colourful language, but i prefer her no bull attitude to someone being snide and aggressive but couching it in polite words to disguise the fact that they are being bitchy.

So you disagree with bitchyness etc but you agree with a "no bull" attitude which includes calling other posters twats?

You can agree with the sentiment without agreeing with the delivery.

shinikins wrote: »

@Whispered you say "Nobody was bullied", well there are bullies present here, there may not be specific examples in the Pug thread, but it is definitely present throughout the forum. the clique that post are rude and dismissive, they back each other up, thank each others posts and exclude anyone else who has an opinion. As Hellrazer said, "there is a core group of users constantly defending each other" and these would be the bullies i speak of.

Don't you think bullying is a very strong word? If people are feeling bullied then thats a really serious issue and needs to be dealt with immediately by the mods. It shouldn't be up for discussion, the "bullies" should be banned. In fact i'm sure boards has a policy about bullying?

I agree again that something needs to be done about certain posting habits - but I would be reluctant to call it bullying as it makes it a very serious issue.

shinikins wrote: »

At the end of the day everyone needs to self moderate more, read your posts before you submit them. Ask yourself whether it could be misread, or if you might not be conveying your true sentiments. Justifying bitchiness by telling yourself that it's the truth is only going to get everyones hackles up, and damage this forum.

+1000

(although you don't want to have to reread everything 100 times for fear of insulting someone - that would equally put people off)

shinikins

seamus wrote: »

I don't think anyone's intention is to feel superior. It's genuine frustration at what seems to be a losing battle in terms of animal welfare.

Anyone who works in rescue tends to develop a certain amount of fatigue about the public. They spend their days fielding ignorant questions from the public and handle insanely cruel and negligent cases and suggestins. It's only natural that they become short and intolerant of this. It's not like customer service where you smile and nod and go home and switch off. Rescuing is a vocation so people can't switch themselves off.

I think i see where your coming from seamus, i get my fair share of ignorant, cruel and negligent cases every day, but i'm not coming on here and taking that out on someone who's asking for help, just as i don't do it face to face in work or my home life. What i don't understand is why other's can't do the same. I've often come home and sobbed my heart out, or ranted and raved about the horrendous day i've had, but to use that as a justification for snapping at someone is a pretty poor excuse IMO.

By the way, i worked in customer service too for a good few years, and you don't get to come home and switch off, its just as stressful as my present vocation.

Whispered wrote: »

So you disagree with bitchyness etc but you agree with a "no bull" attitude which includes calling other posters twats?

Well i've witnessed respected posters calling others "stupid" and "moronic" here, so i think her no bull attitude was justified in this case. The bitchiness i was refering to was the general tone and attitude used in the forum. So in this case, yes, her more colourful language is justified, as i said before, it made everyone sit up and take notice. By the way i think you quoted me out of context here, but i may not have been clear as to what i was referring to "Justifying bitchiness by telling yourself that it's the truth is only going to get everyones hackles up, and damage this forum." What i was reffering to was the habit that certain people have here of correcting and belittling others, and when challenged on it, they react by saying "well its the truth, the op is just being oversensitive/asking a stupid question, if they can't take it its their problem"

Whispered wrote: »

Don't you think bullying is a very strong word? If people are feeling bullied then thats a really serious issue and needs to be dealt with immediately by the mods. It shouldn't be up for discussion, the "bullies" should be banned. In fact i'm sure boards has a policy about bullying?

I agree again that something needs to be done about certain posting habits - but I would be reluctant to call it bullying as it makes it a very serious issue.

It is a strong word, but i think its the right one to use. If you prefer we can call it harassment, but its esentially the same issue, and it is a very serious issue. "Bullying is a form of abuse. It involves repeated acts over time attempting to create or enforce one group or person's power over another group or person" Do you not think that the practise here of opinion ramming as the Mods so delicately put it, is a form of bullying? I do. But the problem with bullying is that it is insidious by its nature. When behaviour is systematic and ongoing then yes, it is bullying. When someone is tormented harrassed, humiliated and embarrased for asking about their pet, then yes, they are being bullied.

tulipi

To be honest I also agree with Liah and Shinikins. I haven't been that regular a poster but I do read the forum daily. I have noticed that a lot of posters are very rude and I do see the bullying that people are talking about.

There is certainly a generally feeling of lecturing in a lot of threads and it's unfair. If I have a question I generally don't post here but on another breed specific forum for my pug that I take part in because I find them to be much friendlier and more helpful. Of course there are helpful people on this forum too and I haven't experienced anything bad myself. It's just a general way of replying that some people have that I have noticed. I also don't post replies to threads that I think will turn into debate because of the way that these threads normally end up. I'd just rather not get involved. Generally I agree with what people are trying to say but basically they are saying it wrong.

Whispered

shinikins wrote: »

Well i've witnessed respected posters calling others "stupid" and "moronic" here, so i think her no bull attitude was justified in this case. The bitchiness i was refering to was the general tone and attitude used in the forum. So in this case, yes, her more colourful language is justified

So as far as you are concerned it's a case of 2 wrongs making a right?

Nobody should come on here and be subjected to abuse - whether that is calling someone stupid, moronic or a twat and I would like a mods input on it. Is the language and tone used in the pug thread now acceptable in the forum?

shinikins wrote: »

It is a strong word, but i think its the right one to use. If you prefer we can call it harassment, but its esentially the same issue, and it is a very serious issue. "Bullying is a form of abuse. It involves repeated acts over time attempting to create or enforce one group or person's power over another group or person" Do you not think that the practise here of opinion ramming as the Mods so delicately put it, is a form of bullying? I do. But the problem with bullying is that it is insidious by its nature. When behaviour is systematic and ongoing then yes, it is bullying. When someone is tormented harrassed, humiliated and embarrased for asking about their pet, then yes, they are being bullied.

In that case I think you should report posts you feel are bullying - and have the bullies weeded out. If it is a fact that people feel consistantly bullied in the forum (as opposed to having someone disagree with them) then it absolutely has to be stopped and as users of the forum we all have an obligation to report such posts as soon as they occur.

Do others feel bullying is a problem in the forum more so than in other forums? Because to be honest - while I see it occasionally - I don't think bullying is a problem in the forum as a whole. The lectures - yes I agree. But not bullying.

Whispered

tulipi wrote: »

To be honest I also agree with Liah and Shinikins. I haven't been that regular a poster but I do read the forum daily. I have noticed that a lot of posters are very rude and I do see the bullying that people are talking about.
.

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with the sentiment behinds liah and shinikins posts.

tulipi wrote: »

Generally I agree with what people are trying to say but basically they are saying it wrong.

This is the heart of the matter - people just need to have a bit of manners and respect for each other. If people spoke to each other as they might face to face I bt the forum would be a nicer place.

liah

Whispered, for the last time, stop putting words into my mouth. I did not call a single poster any sort of name. How many times do I have to clarify this?

Please, PLEASE direct me to where I call a poster a twat. Tell me. I really, really want to know.

I have done no attacking of posters, just of the attitude.

shinikins

Whispered wrote: »

Nobody should come on here and be subjected to abuse - whether that is calling someone stupid, moronic or a twat and I would like a mods input on it. Is the language and tone used in the pug thread now acceptable in the forum?

The difference is Liah said in the pug thread

I don't post here because I don't feel like having to explain the entirety of my history with animals each and every time I post so I don't have some self-righteous twat going on a rant about things I am very well aware of.

I've read threads where namecalling has been directed at a person in particular. You don't like Liah's use of language and i'm not here to defend her, she is more than capable of doing that herself. I never said two wrongs make a right, they would be your words, not mine. What i was trying to say is that there is a level of tolerance for certain people who can get away with saying something is stupid, and moronic. You don't seem to have a problem with that, and yet you have a problem with Liahs posts today?

In that case I think you should report posts you feel are bullying - and have the bullies weeded out. If it is a fact that people feel consistantly bullied in the forum (as opposed to having someone disagree with them) then it absolutely has to be stopped and as users of the forum we all have an obligation to report such posts as soon as they occur.

Do others feel bullying is a problem in the forum more so than in other forums? Because to be honest - while I see it occasionally - I don't think bullying is a problem in the forum as a whole. The lectures - yes I agree. But not bullying.

I have no problem reporting posts, and have done so in the past. Hopefully i'll soon be able to be more active here again.

One more question for you-you think that lecturing is a problem, and there is a vast amount of it going on by the same users, does this not add to the overall problem of bullying? You have an OP who asks a question which other users think is silly or stupid, and they lecture the Op, as does the next user, and the next, and the next...bullying, pure and simple-it may not be organised or premeditated but that is the end result. And you must remember that most bullies don't see themselves as the problem, especially when they are backed up by others.

Whispered

Post 25 of the pug thread

some self-righteous twat

said while quoting myself and discodog.

I had a few things quoted earlier from you and one other poster - all of them appearing to be written in an agressive way. Other people manage to disagree without coming across that way.

Using phrases like "dont you dare" and "for the last time" are clearly intended to intmidate.

The word bully has been bandied around a fair bit today hasn't it? However I've asked for mod input about whether that type of thing is now acceptable in the forum so I will wait to see what they think before commenting further on the pug thread specifically.

liah

Okay. I just went back to the thread and found my exact comment involving the word "twat."

I don't post here because I don't feel like having to explain the entirety of my history with animals each and every time I post so I don't have some self-righteous twat going on a rant about things I am very well aware of

Now.

Did I call any other poster a twat?

Really look, and read what I said.

"so I don't have some self-righteous twat going on a rant about things I am very well aware of."

Seriously? Where is the personal abuse? Where is the breech of charter?

I really, really want to know.

RE: the quoting thing, trust me, I wasn't targeting anyone or else I would've said "stop being a self-righteous twat." I used the word "some," implying that I was not being specific, which means I was not referring to you.

Hellrazer

Whispered/Liah--Can we drop this now?

Can we just leave this thread for feedback about the forum and not about individual posters.

Whispered

shinikins wrote: »

I've read threads where namecalling has been directed at a person in particular. .

Liah was quoting people complaining about their posts then talking about self rightous twats. It was very clearly directed at those posters.

If it wasn't she should have made her complaint here - not in that thread.

EDIT: Sorry hellrazer - I had this posted before seeing your post. Thats all I have to say on the matter.

shinikins wrote: »

What i was trying to say is that there is a level of tolerance for certain people who can get away with saying something is stupid, and moronic. You don't seem to have a problem with that, and yet you have a problem with Liahs posts today?

Now you're putting words into my mouth - all of my other posts are saying how people (ALL posters) need to stop the agro and just be nicer to each other. I actually said that very clearly. Nobody should be subjected to abuse.

shinikins wrote: »

I have no problem reporting posts, and have done so in the past. Hopefully i'll soon be able to be more active here again.

More people obviously need to report them though. If they did we wouldn't even have to hav this conversation.

shinikins wrote: »

One more question for you-you think that lecturing is a problem, and there is a vast amount of it going on by the same users, does this not add to the overall problem of bullying? You have an OP who asks a question which other users think is silly or stupid, and they lecture the Op, as does the next user, and the next, and the next...bullying, pure and simple-it may not be organised or premeditated but that is the end result. And you must remember that most bullies don't see themselves as the problem, especially when they are backed up by others.

Ok but by that logic I could say that because at the moment you and liah are disagreeing with me that I'm being bullied? I'm clearly not. Yes you are both disagreeing with me, but it is a conversation. If 2 more people start disagreeing with me - is it now bullying? When does it stop being a conversation and start being bullying?

I think that to start calling a group of people bullies sets a dangerous precident for the forum.

There is no doubt there are problems but to suggest that bullying is a common problem in the forum is a bit OTT in my opinion. To say bullying suggests something far more sinister and I hat to see it being used so casually.

It is not a casual thing. It is something which ruins lives and takes lives. A single thread on a forum will not do that.

It is a very interesting point though.

liah

Hellrazer wrote: »

Whispered/Liah--Can we drop this now?

Can we just leave this thread for feedback about the forum and not about individual posters.

I was willing to drop it til the false accusations started to fly, but it's cleared up now so hopefully that'll be the end of it.

shinikins

Whispered wrote: »

Now you're putting words into my mouth - all of my other posts are saying how people (ALL posters) need to stop the agro and just be nicer to each other. I actually said that very clearly. Nobody should be subjected to abuse.

Not at all, you were simply referencing Liah very often, and noone else. You must see that by talking about your problem with her language and noone else's that it looks like you have no issues with the others.

More people obviously need to report them though. If they did we wouldn't even have to hav this conversation.

Agree with you 100%

Ok but by that logic I could say that because at the moment you and liah are disagreeing with me that I'm being bullied? I'm clearly not. Yes you are both disagreeing with me, but it is a conversation. If 2 more people start disagreeing with me - is it now bullying? When does it stop being a conversation and start being bullying?

I think that to start calling a group of people bullies sets a dangerous precident for the forum.

There is no doubt there are problems but to suggest that bullying is a common problem in the forum is a bit OTT in my opinion. To say bullying suggests something far more sinister and I hat to see it being used so casually.

It is not a casual thing. It is something which ruins lives and takes lives. A single thread on a forum will not do that.

It is a very interesting point though.

I think thats very flawed logic if your applying it to what i said, I'm not lecturing you, and neither is Liah, we are all being very pleasant and whilst we are debating, neither side has gotten out of hand. We may have different views on the subject of bullying, but we're still having a fairly pleasant conversation on a serious subject. As i said earlier,

"Bullying is a form of abuse. It involves repeated acts over time attempting to create or enforce one group or person's power over another group or person" Do you not think that the practise here of opinion ramming as the Mods so delicately put it, is a form of bullying? I do. But the problem with bullying is that it is insidious by its nature. When behaviour is systematic and ongoing then yes, it is bullying. When someone is tormented harrassed, humiliated and embarrased for asking about their pet, then yes, they are being bullied.

THATS when it becomes bullying.

trust be, i'm not bandying the term about lightly, its a very serious subject, and i'm not refering to a single thread when i speak of it. A while back there was a thread started by a person who had the misfortune to write in bright pink capital letters and they were absolutely castigated, the cocker in pup thread, again the OP was shredded for not knowing his bitch was in heat, so many of the Designer Dog threads where people have been looking for particular crosses of breeds and have been met with derision-these are only some example of a prevailing attitude, and its from the same group of people all the time. Bullying, plain and simple.

The sad thing is, a lot of the posters that would be involved in this behaviour are people who has a vast wealth of knowledge, and can be very helpful, but who choose to be judgemental.

Whispered

shinikins wrote: »

does this not add to the overall problem of bullying? .

I just wanted to ad that I'm not playing the idea of bullying down at all. It's a horrible thing to happen and I genuinely think that if bullying was apparent the mods would stop it.

Do you feel that the forum in general is full of bullies - or do you think a few posters are the problem?

What do you think is the best way to deal with it?

EDIT: Sorry you posted while I was posting. I was referencing our conversation last night. And the thread is a perfect example of how both sides can cause chaos in a thread very easily and unnecessarily. Although I did say in this thread ages ago and more recently that I feel the main problem of the forum are people just not being nice to each other. We're all here for the same reasons. If people can disagree but be polite about it it would be great.

I don't remember those threads - but did a mod get involved or anything? How did they end? I would hate to think someone felt bullied by one of my posts. I'm sure most other posters would too.