Nigel de Jong dumped from Dutch squad.

Xavi6

Boskowski wrote: »

Look this is getting ridiculous. Is this City speaking or why are people in denial over this?

I play football for 25+ years and I know the type. This guy has a history and was on a warning. There's no bad liuck about this and if it happens again - and I'm convinced it will - he should be given a rather lengthy break.

People are rather nonchalant about a legbreak totally talking out of their holes. It's not just a six months break. It's a serious fvckin trauma and there's a good chance you will never be the same player again if not physically but mentally. Players need to be protected from thugs like him.

There have been retrospective bans issued by the FA in the past, plenty of them, but they aren't doing anything about this.

If it was as bad as many are making out then why haven't they acted? If it's some form of assault then they would be doing their utmost to stamp it out of the game yet are happy with Martin Atkinson's call on the day so that's the last of it as far as they are concerned.

Can you offer an explanation as to why that is the case? Genuine question.

Iago

It wasn't a bad tackle in and of itself. He played the ball and got the ball granted he followed through afterwards and that's what caused the injury to Ben Arfa. These things happen in football though, he could make that challenge 100 times and not break anyones leg.

Karl Henrys tackle at the weekend was far more reckless and had the potential to do a lot more damage, if the played hadn't had his leg in the air then god knows how bad the injury would have been.

I guess the key debate is whether or not that kind of tackle should be in the game at all, but that's not specific to De Jong.

Fuhrer

Iago wrote: »

It wasn't a bad tackle in and of itself. He played the ball and got the ball granted he followed through afterwards and that's what caused the injury to Ben Arfa. These things happen in football though, he could make that challenge 100 times and not break anyones leg.

How is that not a bad tackle in and of itself?


He used one leg to go for the ball and then with the other leg, he swung it around and smashed it into Ben Arfa with enough force to break his leg in two places.

You think if I nip ahead of you and get contact on the ball that gives me carte blanche to follow through and stitch you a headbutt?

Fuhrer

Xavi6 wrote: »

If it was as bad as many are making out then why haven't they acted? If it's some form of assault then they would be doing their utmost to stamp it out of the game yet are happy with Martin Atkinson's call on the day so that's the last of it as far as they are concerned.

Can you offer an explanation as to why that is the case? Genuine question.

Look at that, another twisting of the rules by you.

first its, if he got the ball its a fair tackle! and now its if the FA thought it was so bad they would have banned him!

You know perfectly well that the referree saw the incident the FA cant take any further action.

Xavi6

Fuhrer wrote: »

Look at that, another twisting of the rules by you.

first its, if he got the ball its a fair tackle! and now its if the FA thought it was so bad they would have banned him!

You know perfectly well that the referree saw the incident the FA cant take any further action.

They could still take action against Atkinson if he missed such a blatant incident as he admits he saw the challenge.

There hasn't been any demotion or week off (as of yet anyway).

KittyeeTrix

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Hilarious to see the City fans who despise Keane now hypocritically defending De Jong and his thuggery. Almost as funny as Scholes being brought into it.

In my opinion Keane was in a different category of "thug" to De Jong. No need to discuss his pursuit of revenge here as the story has been done to death. I wouldn't defend De Jong if I believed the tackle on Ben Arfa was wanton maliciousness on his part but I don't believe it was. If he had gone back and roared in his face after and was delighted that he had seriously injured him that would be a different matter but he didn't.

the tackle was hard intentionally but with the aim of getting the ball whereas some go into a tackle not with the intent of getting the ball but with the intent of seriously injuring the other player. To me, there is a difference. It's only my opinion and of course it may not be shared by others

Boskowski

Xavi6 wrote: »

There have been retrospective bans issued by the FA in the past, plenty of them, but they aren't doing anything about this.

If it was as bad as many are making out then why haven't they acted? If it's some form of assault then they would be doing their utmost to stamp it out of the game yet are happy with Martin Atkinson's call on the day so that's the last of it as far as they are concerned.

Can you offer an explanation as to why that is the case? Genuine question.

This particular foul at the weekend wasn't worse than any number of other challenges happening week in week out. Which is not so much giving De Jong an excuse but is rather an indication of how refereeing is getting it wrong in my opinion. Because it still was a bad challenge.

You have guys getting sent off because the tackle is coming in "from behind" but clearly the player is trying his utmost not to the hit the other guys legs - pulling back even - and then you have guys flying in head-on studs showing clearly not giving a toss whether he takes the other guys foot off or not and it's called a fair fifty-fifty challenge.

It's a tough call for the referee but most of the times its fairly distinguishable whether someone acts like a comitted sportsman or recklessly accepts the possibilty of injuring someone badly.

The problem with De Jong is that he has a history, he was on a warning and his character is there for everyone to see. Three incidents that make you groan in 6 months is no coincidence or bad luck, it's the player.

deisedevil

My opinion on it is it was reckless at most but not malicious. For those who think it wasn't and he got the ball etc. then go back and look at it at full speed and not a slow motion replay. He flew into Arfa. With nothing else on his mind other than to win the ball it would certainly seem and he did win the ball but that doesn't make it ok. He should have been red carded, he was off the ground and not fully in control and he had studs up.

inforfun

Boskowski wrote: »

The problem with De Jong is that he has a history, he was on a warning and his character is there for everyone to see. Three incidents that make you groan in 6 months is no coincidence or bad luck, it's the player.

A Dutch football website summed up 6 incidents in 13 months.
Would post the address but as said... it is Dutch and Google translate does make a meal of the translation.

What is quite remarkable that 5 of the 6 were with the Dutch national team of which 3 were friendlies.

DOC09UNAM

inforfun wrote: »

A Dutch football website summed up 6 incidents in 13 months.
Would post the address but as said... it is Dutch and Google translate does make a meal of the translation.

What is quite remarkable that 5 of the 6 were with the Dutch national team of which 3 were friendlies.

Post it anyway, their is many more translators than just google.

Dolph Starbeam

It was a bad tackle, i can't understand how anyone see's it any differently, he followed through with his other leg and that is wreckless. Yes he got the ball with his challenge but not having control over where his other leg is going and breaking someones leg is wreckless, there was no need for him to even go to ground. He had enough warnings from the Dutch coaches before this and maybe this will make him think about going in wrecklessly next time.

Vurnon San Benito

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah good so... take the rough stuff out of his game and then you're left with... what, exactly?

Less broken legs and career threatening injuries to be precise.

inforfun

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Post it anyway, their is many more translators than just google.

Here you go

6 incidents in 13 months Linky in Dutch

DOC09UNAM

inforfun wrote: »

Here you go

6 incidents in 13 months Linky in Dutch

Cheers!

tolosenc

Broken leg was the unfortunate consequence of an otherwise perfectly legit tackle. v.Marwijk is pulling a publicity stunt after the bad press the Dutch got in the World Cup. Crazy decision.

People who are calling it a bad tackle are reacting to the injury, not the tackle itself. He won the ball, and wasn't over the top with his aggression. People who dislike it are the same people who dislike any physicality in the game.

I'd like to see players dropped for being cheaters and whingers. Games'd be more interesting with the constant childishness.

DOC09UNAM

tolosenc wrote: »

Broken leg was the unfortunate consequence of an otherwise perfectly legit tackle. v.Marwijk is pulling a publicity stunt after the bad press the Dutch got in the World Cup. Crazy decision.

People who are calling it a bad tackle are reacting to the injury, not the tackle itself. He won the ball, and wasn't over the top with his aggression. People who dislike it are the same people who dislike any physicality in the game.

I'd like to see players dropped for being cheaters and whingers. Games'd be more interesting with the constant childishness.

You should run for government, you seem to know how everyone is thinking.

greendom

Cheating/diving is bad but surely ending a player's season or career is far worse.

greendom

Just what he needed - a character witness named Van Bommel :rolleyes:

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/10/05/SOCCER_Holland_De_Jong_Van_Bommel.html

adox

Boskowski wrote: »

Look this is getting ridiculous. Is this City speaking or why are people in denial over this?

I`m not in denial, I gave my honest opinion on the tackle.

I`m a United supporter btw and would love nothing more than to have a go at City. Its just, it wasnt a bad tackle imo, something you cant seem to entertain in any way, shape or form. You keep quoting his history of bad tackles, calling him a thug etc. Maybe this is actually affecting your opinion on the incident.

Either way, you seem intent on totally dismissing anyone with a counter argument to your opinion on De Jong and the tackle.

Boskowski

adox wrote: »

You keep quoting his history of bad tackles, calling him a thug etc. Maybe this is actually affecting your opinion on the incident.

Maybe so.

adox wrote: »

Either way, you seem intent on totally dismissing anyone with a counter argument to your opinion on De Jong and the tackle.

Not really. I just can't follow people who are saying it wasn't a bad tackle, because in my book it was. Now it wasn't the worst in the world and you probably see a handful of similar quality every weekend but it was bad enough as we can all see from the end result anyway.

I find it difficult - based on the guys history - to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edit:
I would also like to add that when I call him a "thug" it's me saying that about the footballer De Jong. I know that a persons character and a players character are not the same - sometimes complete opposites actually - and for all I know he might be out saving endangered species in his sparetime.

gosplan

I thought it was a good enough tackle. Firm, committed and so on.

His history has obviously worked against him as regards the issue with the dutch squad.

Given that tackles from behind and studs up challenges are treated severly by rule, I think the rest you have to put down to whether or not the player is in control of his actions.

I think De Jong was. Fair enough, he was getting ball and man but that's OK by the rules.

It's the launching yourself at a player hoping that the ball will be there or there abouts when you get there that should be punished. That's what Henry's tackle was, that's what Shawcross's was and that's what Joe Cole did to get his red card at the start of the season.

I do think there's an issue about player protection though. Are tackles like DeJong's so important to the game that it's worth never seeing Ben Arfa play in England again?

Paparazzo

He's considered to be an embarrassment by the dutch fans at this stage. He got something like 20 yellow cards in 60 games in Germany! Would have thought with all citys money they could get someone with more attributes than intimidation.
Delighted he's dropped

RasTa

Paparazzo wrote: »

He's considered to be an embarrassment by the dutch fans at this stage. He got something like 20 yellow cards in 60 games in Germany! Would have thought with all citys money they could get someone with more attributes than intimidation.
Delighted he's dropped

I'm almost certain the referee's will view him different from this,I expect his first red card very soon.
Anyone want to give me odds?

Xavi6

I see Newcastle have written a letter to the FA asking them to take action.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317951/Newcastle-demand-FA-action-Manchester-City-midfielder-Nigel-Jong.html

If that's the way it's going to go I wonder will City counter it with a letter for another tackle that although wasn't a leg breaker, and to many that isn't an issue, was also needless and reckless -

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see Newcastle have written a letter to the FA asking them to take action.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317951/Newcastle-demand-FA-action-Manchester-City-midfielder-Nigel-Jong.html

If that's the way it's going to go I wonder will City counter it with a letter for another tackle that although wasn't a leg breaker, and to many that isn't an issue, was also needless and reckless -

As bad as i think the tackle was I think that is bs, they should not be writing for the FA to take action.

That is a very slippery slope to take, I actually hope the FA don't entertain this.

That said it is the daily Fail, so it could well be fabricated BS.

Fuhrer

Xavi6 wrote: »

If that's the way it's going to go I wonder will City counter it with a letter for another tackle that although wasn't a leg breaker, and to many that isn't an issue, was also needless and reckless -

Who are these many that the tackle was a leg breaker isnt an issue for?

Corholio

tolosenc wrote: »

Broken leg was the unfortunate consequence of an otherwise perfectly legit tackle. v.Marwijk is pulling a publicity stunt after the bad press the Dutch got in the World Cup. Crazy decision.

People who are calling it a bad tackle are reacting to the injury, not the tackle itself. He won the ball, and wasn't over the top with his aggression. People who dislike it are the same people who dislike any physicality in the game.

I'd like to see players dropped for being cheaters and whingers. Games'd be more interesting with the constant childishness.

Seriously?

His right leg went straight through Ben Arfa's practically just below knee height. Im reacting to the tackle, but nice of you to tell me what im reacting to and what I dislike. Lets just turn the game into who can tackle the hardest, a game full of De Jong's and Karl Henry's. I detest cheaters too, but given the choice id prefer that than seeing someone's career ended.

OPENROAD

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see Newcastle have written a letter to the FA asking them to take action.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317951/Newcastle-demand-FA-action-Manchester-City-midfielder-Nigel-Jong.html

If that's the way it's going to go I wonder will City counter it with a letter for another tackle that although wasn't a leg breaker, and to many that isn't an issue, was also needless and reckless -

This will open up a whole can of worms imo

event

the FA wont do a thing about that, they'll just ignore it

Mr Alan

Newcastle writing to the FA looking for them to take action is ****ing cringeworthy

DOC09UNAM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Newcastle writing to the FA looking for them to take action is ****ing cringeworthy

For once it seems I agree with you big Al.

Fuhrer

I know, one of their best players has been probably put out for the season and they want some much deserved punishment for the filthy player who has no broken two legs in one year?

Im cringing so much my face looks like Keith Richards

Panthro

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Let Michael Essien and him go for a 50/50 ball and we'll see how de Jong likes getting a taste of his own medicine give to him with the psychoticness of the butcher that is Essien

Essien a butcher??
he is in my bollocks.:pac:

SantryRed

Fuhrer wrote: »

I know, one of their best players has been probably put out for the season and they want some much deserved punishment for the filthy player who has no broken two legs in one year?

Im cringing so much my face looks like Keith Richards

He did nothing fcuking wrong in the challenge! He got the poxy ball! It was just un-fcuking-fortunate.

Paparazzo

SantryRed wrote: »

He did nothing fcuking wrong in the challenge! He got the poxy ball! It was just un-fcuking-fortunate.

I wish people would stop this pathetic excuse. Just because you get the ball doesn't mean you can break someones leg.

Xavi6

Fuhrer wrote: »

Who are these many that the tackle was a leg breaker isnt an issue for?

I've read plenty of articles/commentary etc saying that it's to do with the intent of the tackle and its style rather than simply the leg break.

Warper

Just saw it again there on ESPN and it was a dreadful tackle. There is controlled aggression like Essien and there is reckless aggression like De Jong. Essien is every bit as aggressive as De Jong but you hardly ever see him make the type of reckless tackles that De Jong makes. This old cliche that "if you take away his aggression, you take away what makes him such a good player" is bull tbh. It is about controlled aggression, something De Jong clearly hasn't got yet.

kryogen

jesus christ, he comes from the front, he wins the ball, his trailing leg catches Ben Arfa

**** Happens

Xavi6

Warper wrote: »

Just saw it again there on ESPN and it was a dreadful tackle. There is controlled aggression like Essien and there is reckless aggression like De Jong. Essien is every bit as aggressive as De Jong but you hardly ever see him make the type of reckless tackles that De Jong makes. This old cliche that "if you take away his aggression, you take away what makes him such a good player" is bull tbh. It is about controlled aggression, something De Jong clearly hasn't got yet.

Essien has as many Premier League horror tackles as De Jong. Indeed his was arguably worse, it just lacked the same outcome.

redzerdrog

kryogen wrote: »

jesus christ, he comes from the front, he wins the ball, his trailing leg catches Ben Arfa

**** Happens

that would be the general opinion if the player came from a club like fulham or west brom but because he plays for a rival club/challenger like city some fans are just blinded by their tinted glasses

DOC09UNAM

redzerdrog wrote: »

that would be the general opinion if the player came from a club like fulham or west brom but because he plays for a rival club/challenger like city some fans are just blinded by their tinted glasses

Not really, it's because he's broke two legs.

It was a bad tackle but the FA shouldn't take action, that is really all that has to be said.

Vurnon San Benito

Mr Alan wrote: »

Newcastle writing to the FA looking for them to take action is ****ing cringeworthy

How in any way is it cringeworthy?
A reckless, needless challenge, that ended up breaking the leg of our best signing/ coup of the summer.
He could've simply dispossessed Ben Arfa like any normal midfielder would, but no, de Jong had to go in with a crunching tackle (literally).

I think it's plain and simple to see that de Jong cannot tackle, and is pretty headless when it comes to it. I never liked the Dutchman, and it's a known fact that not many in the footballing world do.

There's nothing "****ing cringeworthy" as you so delicately put it, about us writing to the FA about it.
If it had happened to Lionel Messi, Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo or even David Silva, I don't think a letter would even be needed because the Football association would act straight away.

You can defend and defend de Jong with the same old "He won the ball, the injury was unfortunate"
yes he won the ****ing ball, but in the stupidest way possible.

About time someone brought his tackling, and the lack of quality of it into the mainstream footballing news. Get him banned for a few matches, and let Karl Henry do the rest...


As for Atkinson, blind as a fúcking bat.

MaxPower89

Could people stop trotting out the "he got the ball" argument..its complete rubbish. Its still being touted, even by Santryred and Kyrogen on this page ffs!

It was a completely reckless challenge, and he should be banned for some considerably time.

GavRedKing

Xavi6 wrote: »

Essien has as many Premier League horror tackles as De Jong. Indeed his was arguably worse, it just lacked the same outcome.

I agree, and as a Chelsea fan Essien's 1st season was like watching a hatchet man in some of his tackles but he has brought that under control and is now a very good tackler, his timing has improved and apart from the the tackle on Diaby's ankle I can rememeber off the top of my head a bad tackle form Essien in a long, long time.

If they want to go down the banning route, then a 3 game ban is more then enough. People calling for lengthy bans need to cop on, if he had got a straight red he would have got an automatic 3 game ban so in my mind thats the most he should get if the FA decide to act which I doubt they will TBH.

Mitch Connor

I think Karl Henry is lucky he doesn't play for City, and that De Jong did this the same weekend as his tackle on the Wigan player - that was another shocker of a tackle, in a season of shocking tackles from that lad.

CR 7

The worst thing about the two of them is their reactions after the tackles, de jong trying to pull that american player up off the ground after that previous tackle. If he's more concerned about making sure he doesn't get booked than about the player he injured being ok, then i've no time for him. I'm glad he's left out of the squad. People like him are ruining the game, by making creative players more afraid/reluctant to be creative. Hopefully this means refs pay closer attention to him and he actually gets punished from now on.

Xavi6

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

The worst thing about the two of them is their reactions after the tackles, de jong trying to pull that american player up off the ground after that previous tackle. If he's more concerned about making sure he doesn't get booked than about the player he injured being ok, then i've no time for him. I'm glad he's left out of the squad. People like him are ruining the game, by making creative players more afraid/reluctant to be creative. Hopefully this means refs pay closer attention to him and he actually gets punished from now on.

Were you of the same opinion when Keane played the same role for your lot?

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Were you of the same opinion when Keane played the same role for your lot?

Robbie keane never played for us.

regarding Roy, the man was a hatchet, and always got a red card when he deserved one.

Paparazzo

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sweet if you have any more Kompanys and Boatengs over there as well all you need do is holler and we'll fire some loose change in your direction.

City just made a loss of £121m. The new financial fair play rules from uefa say you can't make a loss of €45m over 3 years. They start in a couple of years.

CR 7

Xavi6 wrote: »

Were you of the same opinion when Keane played the same role for your lot?

And were you?