The door-to-door / commission-only jobs thread (super dooper mega merge)

lala88

GazL0871117 wrote: »

You've provided evidence, half of it is from the blog on the mirror... COME ON!
Come back to me when you can engage in a debate and not a shout louder than you forum... Idiots

you see the all knowing boards posters dont agree with this subject so anyone who disagrees with them are wrong

Agent J

lala88 wrote: »

you see the all knowing boards posters dont agree with this subject so anyone who disagrees with them are wrong

Lala88 , Are you still claiming to be working commission only for Vodaphone Business when the rest of your co workers are on a basic salary?

lala88 wrote: »

I work in business sales for Vodafone and its commission only does that mean its a scam?

ResearchWill wrote: »

God Vodafone are screwing you http://m.jobs.ie/Job/1242307/

I have a number of friends who work for Vodafone b2b and all have a basic. Seems you got the short straw.

From this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056789845&page=23

lala88

Agent J wrote: »

Lala88 , Are you still claiming to be working commission only for Vodaphone Business when the rest of your co workers are on a basic salary?





From this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056789845&page=23

Yes i do work om commission only by choice. I dont have any co workers you'll be sad to here so that wont fit into your theory. But seeing as i dont agree with you i have to be wrong dont i....

Agent J

Sure Lala88(!)

I'll let others make their own minds up on if they believe that one.

You have said on this thread that you think the whole thing is bullsh*t

lala88 wrote: »

Yes i have! ITs the same story as everyone ealse really, you'll run your own office in 6 months, make lots of money etc. Total buls**** the whole thing

So why on earth are you trying to defend it now? Did you change your mind?

lala88

Agent J wrote: »

Sure Lala88(!)

I'll let others make their own minds up on if they believe that one.

You have said on this thread that you think the whole thing is bullsh*t



So why on earth are you trying to defend it now? Did you change your mind?

Do you actually read any posts of just what you want to see? What am i saying of course you only see what you want to.

Your actually unreal anyone who doesn't agree with you has to be wrong all the time don't they?

Agent J

Actually something interesting i noticed while looking back at old posts.

The original company? Protea Direct of Capel st?

Doesn't exist anymore

It's not on the companies register

http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx

Their website is just gone

http://www.proteadirectltd.com/

(The snap on the way back machine doesnt capture it i'm afraid)

http://web.archive.org/web/20091002205132/http://www.proteadirectltd.com/

There is a couple of badly written PR releases from them on this site.

http://pressroom.prlog.org/ProteaDirectLtd/

You could copy and paste some of the stuff on to other companies which have been named here.

Their "Successor" company seems to be Impala Direct ( Also originally located at the exact same address

(Some info from this thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70382794)

http://www.impaladirectltd.co.uk/

I think they are defunct now as well but they seemed to be operating out of another address now.. They were originally at the same address but seem to have moved. 27 Capel St seems to be up for rent. There is only one set of offices there AFAIK http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?id=95581 .It's up a single flight of stairs above the hardware store.
Odd since i know similar companies have been operating out of that office since 2005.

http://www.yelp.ie/biz/impala-direct-dublin.

A quick look at the job sites only shows the old ones....

http://www.adverts.ie/jobs/impala-direct-ltd/cosmetic-sales-assistants/1040272
http://www.adverts.ie/jobs/impala-direct-ltd/marketing-advertising-sales-no-experience-necessary/1040298

Same guff as before.

So why only after a few short years do these companies just dissappear?
And then very similar ones pop right back up with the same MO.

They're Zombie companies! Only way to take them down is to aim for the head and don't miss!

(Or Scams which about 10 mins work on the internet and basic research will tell you. )

Agent J

lala88 wrote: »

Do you actually read any posts of just what you want to see? What am i saying of course you only see what you want to.

Your actually unreal anyone who doesn't agree with you has to be wrong all the time don't they?

I quoted your entire post from earlier in this thread and read about it to make sure I didn't have the context wrong.

lala88

Agent J wrote: »

I quoted your entire post from earlier in this thread and read about it to make sure I didn't have the context wrong.

And at one stage did i say i work of ones of theses company's now? I told you i work with Vodafone and because i do so on commission only you assume it has to be with one of theses company's do you not?

vikingdub

lala88 wrote: »

How is it a scam? Explain? Do people have to pay money to get the job? You didn't answer if people are forced into the job, are they?

Its you that has the chip on there shoulder. Who are you to tell people what they should or shouldn't do? Plenty of sales jobs are commission only,

I have read most, but not all, of the posts on this thread and what stands out are the extremely defensive posts from people defending these companies.

Let us get something straight first and foremost, there is a substantial difference between these d2d salespersons and a commission only job. Working in a commission only job, there is an employment relationship between the sales person and the company. In other words the sales person is registered for PAYE and PRSI and the company is registered with Revenue and Social Welfare as an employer, makes deductions from the employees' sales commission and submits these deductions to Revenue and Social Welfare and most important the company pays employers' PRSI. In such a situation there is an employment relationship and the employee has the protection of the employment legislation and perhaps more importantly, has made employee social welfare contributions and is eligible for jobseekers' benefit, sickness benefit, maternity benefit and eventually contributor old age pension. That is what is described as a job.

What is being "offered" by the companies mentioned here are not jobs, at best they might be described as self-employment. Over the years the courts have developed tests to establish what is self-employed and what is employment. These tests are the basis on which Revenue will make a determination as to whether a person is an employee or self employed. A person who is an employee is entitled to be paid, at least, the minimum age, zero hours contracts are illegal in the Republic of Ireland.

From the Revenue website

He/she is an employee if some or all of the following apply:

• Is under the control of another person who directs as to how, when and where the work is to be carried out
• Works set hours or a given number of hours per week or month
• Does not supply materials for the job
• Does not provide equipment other than the small tools of the trade
• Is not exposed to personal financial risk in carrying out the work
• Receives a fixed hourly/weekly/monthly wage
• Is entitled to extra pay or time off for overtime
• Is entitled to sick pay
• Receives expense payments to cover subsistence and/or travel expenses
• Supplies labour only
• Cannot subcontact the work
• Does not assume any responsibility for investment and management in the business
• Does not have the opportunity to profit from sound management in the scheduling of engagements or in the performance of tasks arising from the engagements
• Will normally be covered under the employer’s public liability insurance
• Works for one person or for one business

He/she is self-employed if some or all of the following apply:

• Has control over what is done, how it is done, when and where it is done and whether he or she does it personally
  (In the construction sector for health and safety reasons, all individuals are under the direction of the site foreman/overseer. The self-employed individual controls the method to be employed in carrying out the work.)
• Controls the hours of work in fulfilling the obligations of the contract
• Provides the materials for the job
• Provides equipment and machinery necessary for the job, other than the small tools of the trade
• Is exposed to financial risk, by having to bear the cost of making good faulty or substandard work carried out under the contract
• Costs and agrees a price for the job
• Receives an agreed contract payment(s) without entitlement to pay for overtime, holidays, country money, travel and subsistence or other expense payments
• Is free to hire other people, on his or her terms, to do the work which has been agreed to be undertaken
• Assumes responsibility for investment and management in the enterprise
• Has the opportunity to profit from sound management in the scheduling and performance of engagements and tasks
• Provides his or her own insurance cover as appropriate e.g. public liability insurance, etc
• Owns his or her own business
• Can provide the same services to more than one person or business at the same time

It should be noted that:

• A worker paid by results (piece worker, commission, by share) is not automatically a self-employed contractor;
• The fact that an individual has registered for self-assessment or VAT under the principles of self-assessment does not automatically mean that he or she is self-employed;
• A worker who is a self-employed contractor in one job is not necessarily self-employed in the next job. Each job must be looked at separately.

Now the apologists for the d2d "self-employed" work that is being discussed on this thread will argue that this is self-employment on the basis of this condition


Has the opportunity to profit from sound management in the scheduling and performance of engagements and tasks


In reality the answer would be No, as there is no opportunity to manage the scheduling of the routes and territories and even, it at a stretch that condition could be met, it is only one of many and as they say "one swallow does not make a Spring".


These outfits are exploiting people desperate for work and are in breach of an array of employment legislation. I strongly suggest that everyone, who has not received full payment for work done, lodge a complaint with the Rights Commissioner service. The company will argue that there is no employment relationship but in reality this "work" will fail the test for employee v. self-employment. The lack of a contract of employment is also an offense so that will not support these companies argument. An employee is entitled to, at least minimum wage, put in a claim under the Payment of Wages Act, 1991 and the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. Annual leave, claim under Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997. An employee may only work a maximum of 48 hours per week, claim under the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997.


It is time that these outfits were put out of business, this self-employment farce deprives the workers of PRSI contributions and the State of PAYE and PRSI contributions (both employee and employer).


I suspect that the apologists and defenders of these companies either work for them, in the true sense or are connected in some other way. A little like the paid/unpaid apologists for political parties that populate the threads on politics.ie. Their role is to defend the companies and to attempt to deflect any criticism.

Anyone who wants any assistance in taking a complaint to the Rights Commissioner, feel free to pm me.

I have been told that some of these "jobs" are or were advertised on the FAS website, if anyone has a link to such postings, please post them and I will try to have some action taken.

Agent J

lala88 wrote: »

And at one stage did i say i work of ones of theses company's now? I told you i work with Vodafone and because i do so on commission only you assume it has to be with one of theses company's do you not?

*sigh*

I wasn't talking about Vodaphone.

I was talking about you spending several pages defending this business model/scam when you have you think it is bullsh*t.

< edit>

Actually Lala88, you know damn well I wasn't talking about Vodaphone and have never been talking about them in relation to the business model on this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83669892&postcount=294

< /edit>

vikingdub

GazL0871117 wrote: »

You could ask about my personal life which is just fine btw but this thread is about the marketing companies. The fact that you sold people misleadingly has nothing to do with anyone other than you. I know that misleading is actually a cause for termination in this business. You can play the brainwash card all you want but at the end of the day it was yourself who did those things, Company policy is to never sell to an OAP unless there is a family member that can come over and verify everything. Couples are to be talked to together there is no running it by the wife and not the husband we won't come in the door unless both are there. I never mentioned anything about trips anywhere so not sure where your getting your information from and I ensure all me reps act in an honest and transparent manner otherwise they won't get paid. You may have been good at it for 6 months using dirty tactics and just were not able doing it honestly. It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the www

And how do you establish that you are talking to one of a couple? Your ilk knock on my door with monotonous regularity, I have never been asked is there a spouse/partner that should be included in the "conversation". I feel desperately sorry for what are clearly decent young people desperate for work but I have nothing but contempt for lounge lizard type "leader" who is only short of wedging my door open with his foot.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the www

I have had "representatives" of charities, utilities companies, an alarm company aligned to what used to be a government department, you name I have had them. My normal response is a polite "no thank you, I do not buy/donate at the door", that is routinely ignored as the "leader" spouts his script, which usually includes something to the effect "this is a one time only opportunity to "buy an alarm/change your utility provider" etc, we will only be in this area for one night.

On one occasion there was a product that I might have been interested in and asked for some leaflets so that I could study the product and if I was interested I would get back to the company. I was told in no uncertain terms that this would not be possible, now that screams scam at me.
In cases were I do not wish to engage and after the second "no thank you", I cease to be polite and tell them if they are not off my property by the count of 10 I will call the Gardai. In the past I have contacted the companies and charities that were "represented" by these people and told them that I would never buy a product/make a donation in these circumstances as the behaviour of these "representatives" borders on aggression.

As for the claim with regard to ensuring that an OAP has a family member with them, that is utter bull, an elderly neighbour of mine had to be rescued from some d2d sales types who were pressuring him into signing up for an alarm on behalf of a household name.

I am perfectly capable of dealing with your ilk but there are many vulnerable people who are not and I am beginning to believe that both these d2d sales types and the charity muggers should be banned.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the wwwIf such a If such legislation were introduced you would be among the first to be muzzled.

El Inho

vikingdub wrote: »

And how do you establish that you are talking to one of a couple? Your ilk knock on my door with monotonous regularity, I have never been asked is there a spouse/partner that should be included in the "conversation". I feel desperately sorry for what are clearly decent young people desperate for work but I have nothing but contempt for lounge lizard type "leader" who is only short of wedging my door open with his foot.

this is it in a nutshell for me.

lala88

Agent J wrote: »

*sigh*

I wasn't talking about Vodaphone.

I was talking about you spending several pages defending this business model/scam when you have you think it is bullsh*t.

< edit>

Actually Lala88, you know damn well I wasn't talking about Vodaphone and have never been talking about them in relation to the business model on this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83669892&postcount=294

< /edit>

What in the name of god are you on about now? I haven't been defending it at all. Once again thats you seeing what you want to see. What kind of world do you live in at all? Like iv said before all you do is shoot down anyone that disagrees with your view on things (just the way boards like it)

You really do fit what boards is all about you sit behind your computer screen and think your some kind of voice of the people

lala88

vikingdub wrote: »

And how do you establish that you are talking to one of a couple? Your ilk knock on my door with monotonous regularity, I have never been asked is there a spouse/partner that should be included in the "conversation". I feel desperately sorry for what are clearly decent young people desperate for work but I have nothing but contempt for lounge lizard type "leader" who is only short of wedging my door open with his foot.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the www

I have had "representatives" of charities, utilities companies, an alarm company aligned to what used to be a government department, you name I have had them. My normal response is a polite "no thank you, I do not buy/donate at the door", that is routinely ignored as the "leader" spouts his script, which usually includes something to the effect "this is a one time only opportunity to "buy an alarm/change your utility provider" etc, we will only be in this area for one night.

On one occasion there was a product that I might have been interested in and asked for some leaflets so that I could study the product and if I was interested I would get back to the company. I was told in no uncertain terms that this would not be possible, now that screams scam at me.
In cases were I do not wish to engage and after the second "no thank you", I cease to be polite and tell them if they are not off my property by the count of 10 I will call the Gardai. In the past I have contacted the companies and charities that were "represented" by these people and told them that I would never buy a product/make a donation in these circumstances as the behaviour of these "representatives" borders on aggression.

As for the claim with regard to ensuring that an OAP has a family member with them, that is utter bull, an elderly neighbour of mine had to be rescued from some d2d sales types who were pressuring him into signing up for an alarm on behalf of a household name.

I am perfectly capable of dealing with your ilk but there are many vulnerable people who are not and I am beginning to believe that both these d2d sales types and the charity muggers should be banned.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the wwwIf such a If such legislation were introduced you would be among the first to be muzzled.

The good old hard man act. Like i said fir a short spell i worked of one of theses company's and have to laugh when i see people make claims like this as i never once seen anyone do or say a thing

Mrs OBumble

A small moderator reminder:

Threads like this attract trolls. They are usually easy to spot, and get bored and go away if they are not fed.

vikingdub

lala88 wrote: »

The good old hard man act. Like i said fir a short spell i worked of one of theses company's and have to laugh when i see people make claims like this as i never once seen anyone do or say a thing

Would you like to elaborate on your comment "The good old hard man act"?

Asking unwelcome callers politely, twice, followed by a threat to call the Gardai at the third request could hardly be described as a "hard man act". According to you this would never happen, make up your mind.

I trust that a basic command of the English language is not a requirement of your current employment. You might find the offer below of value.

http://www.livingsocial.com/cities/68/deals/652736-30-hour-online-grammar-course?afsrc=1&utm_campaign=MorningSend&utm_content=68&utm_medium=email&utm_source=blast

lala88

vikingdub wrote: »

Would you like to elaborate on your comment "The good old hard man act"?

Asking unwelcome callers politely, twice, followed by a threat to call the Gardai at the third request could hardly be described as a "hard man act". According to you this would never happen, make up your mind.

I trust that a basic command of the English language is not a requirement of your current employment. You might find the offer below of value.

http://www.livingsocial.com/cities/68/deals/652736-30-hour-online-grammar-course?afsrc=1&utm_campaign=MorningSend&utm_content=68&utm_medium=email&utm_source=blast

Pretty much everything you said there falls into the ''hard man act''

The next comment say it all about you too really. You really are a sad little man when you have to pick on someone for bad spelling/grammar. We all cant be highly educated like you but if it makes you feel better by picking on others because of that who am i to judge

Agent J

vikingdub wrote: »

The company will argue that there is no employment relationship but in reality this "work" will fail the test for employee v. self-employment. The lack of a contract of employment is also an offense so that will not support these companies argument.

See as much as I agree with the sentiement.. I just don't see that test as being much practical use. It would have to get to a complaint stage first.I'd love a way just to stop these operations at the start but can't see a clear cut way to do it personally.

Part of the model is a high staff turnover and most of them leave very early so most of them may not want to go through the nesscary due process under current laws. And if the company itself does get a bad rep then they just shut down and restart (Very often in the same address).




Just going to highlight this again for good measure. It's worth repeating and i intend to steal/quote it in future.

vikingdub wrote: »

I suspect that the apologists and defenders of these companies either work for them, in the true sense or are connected in some other way. A little like the paid/unpaid apologists for political parties that populate the threads on politics.ie. Their role is to defend the companies and to attempt to deflect any criticism.

It's also to try and muddy the waters.To try and create a debate/controversy where there is none. So when someone hits google while looking up these places to mislead and misdirect them. Standard Shills.

vikingdub

lala88 wrote: »

Pretty much everything you said there falls into the ''hard man act''

The next comment say it all about you too really. You really are a sad little man when you have to pick on someone for bad spelling/grammar. We all cant be highly educated like you but if it makes you feel better by picking on others because of that who am i to judge

Would you care to explain exactly how asking someone to leave my property is a "hard man act".

As for your grammar and spelling, either you need help or you are too lazy to write properly, if it is the latter it simply casts more doubt on your credibility.

lala88

vikingdub wrote: »

Would you care to explain exactly how asking someone to leave my property is a "hard man act".

As for your grammar and spelling, either you need help or you are too lazy to write properly, if it is the latter it simply casts more doubt on your credibility.

The way you say it make you out to be a ''hard man''

Wow i never know a persons spelling has something to do with there credibility

GazL0871117

vikingdub wrote: »

And how do you establish that you are talking to one of a couple? Your ilk knock on my door with monotonous regularity, I have never been asked is there a spouse/partner that should be included in the "conversation". I feel desperately sorry for what are clearly decent young people desperate for work but I have nothing but contempt for lounge lizard type "leader" who is only short of wedging my door open with his foot.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the www

I have had "representatives" of charities, utilities companies, an alarm company aligned to what used to be a government department, you name I have had them. My normal response is a polite "no thank you, I do not buy/donate at the door", that is routinely ignored as the "leader" spouts his script, which usually includes something to the effect "this is a one time only opportunity to "buy an alarm/change your utility provider" etc, we will only be in this area for one night.

On one occasion there was a product that I might have been interested in and asked for some leaflets so that I could study the product and if I was interested I would get back to the company. I was told in no uncertain terms that this would not be possible, now that screams scam at me.
In cases were I do not wish to engage and after the second "no thank you", I cease to be polite and tell them if they are not off my property by the count of 10 I will call the Gardai. In the past I have contacted the companies and charities that were "represented" by these people and told them that I would never buy a product/make a donation in these circumstances as the behaviour of these "representatives" borders on aggression.

As for the claim with regard to ensuring that an OAP has a family member with them, that is utter bull, an elderly neighbour of mine had to be rescued from some d2d sales types who were pressuring him into signing up for an alarm on behalf of a household name.

I am perfectly capable of dealing with your ilk but there are many vulnerable people who are not and I am beginning to believe that both these d2d sales types and the charity muggers should be banned.

It's people like you I hope come under cyber legislation for airing crap all over the wwwIf such a If such legislation were introduced you would be among the first to be muzzled.

Right you find out if they are the main decision maker or one of two by asking them. The OAP thing is in the contracts the people calling sign, if you report them they will be terminated from the activity. They also have to leave when asked or told not interested. I know with the clients we represent if they don't want it on the day they go to the clients website. Your pathetic Internet legislation piece there as moving as it was just will never be the case, I said initially that I was referring to my experience and how I run my business not the industry as a whole. It's you I think that needs the web west restrictions airing things like that!

melekalikimaka

lala88 wrote: »

Wow i never know a persons spelling has something to do with there credibility

its usually a tactic used by someone whos main agrument is weak to pad it with some substance

GazL0871117

Agent J wrote: »

See as much as I agree with the sentiement.. I just don't see that test as being much practical use. It would have to get to a complaint stage first.I'd love a way just to stop these operations at the start but can't see a clear cut way to do it personally.

Part of the model is a high staff turnover and most of them leave very early so most of them may not want to go through the nesscary due process under current laws. And if the company itself does get a bad rep then they just shut down and restart (Very often in the same address).




Just going to highlight this again for good measure. It's worth repeating and i intend to steal/quote it in future.



It's also to try and muddy the waters.To try and create a debate/controversy where there is none. So when someone hits google while looking up these places to mislead and misdirect them. Standard Shills.

You must get very lonely at that computer screen all day!;-)... I hope that quote brings you lots of joy when you scan through forums in your Mussoliniesque manner!... Good luck

GazL0871117

El Spearo wrote: »

this is it in a nutshell for me.

Unfortunately El Spearo that's for them to decide and not you. If they don't like it or its not for them fair enough... There's lots of others enjoying it... Get off that horse of yours

irishjig69b

**** balls lads, gone wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy of topic here

El Inho

GazL0871117 wrote: »

Unfortunately El Spearo that's for them to decide and not you. If they don't like it or its not for them fair enough... There's lots of others enjoying it... Get off that horse of yours

The funny part of it all is that I would consider you to be trolling only for I have seen so many people be so convinced in their own minds they were onto a good thing in these jobs, that you probably are not.

I'm going to leave it because I'm out...and its literally like leaving a cult.

Was at a rally in Manchester. Yes they actually call it a rally...absolutely hilarious stuff...it was that day my eyes were opened to the ludicrous non sense that goes on within these 'companies'.

You might be able to think of a few famous instances where rallies existed in history :P

The best part of the rally was this guy, some bald guy from england...telling how he was told 100's of times that he should quit the job...failing to secure 'reps' he brought out on observation (96 of them if i recall correctly). He was at it for years...and ignored people telling him to quit. They bigged him up as being a champion of heart and resilience. Then I just turned to the lads and said 'so basically any aul fool with no other opportunities in life can do these 'jobs'.

And actually on the rally ... there was one other highlight...when they asked who was there for the first time...and everyone cheered...going crazy and everyone was like excellent...everyone is so fresh fantastic woowoo...

when really it just means everyone stays in these positions until they get sense like i did that its going nowhere and eventually everyone becomes the 99% who are left on their arse with not a sinner in the world caring who you are or were...

And that my friend is why this whole thing is evil, wrong, immoral and why I would love to see you in here in a while saying you got out...not for me to be smug, but for me to know at least one more person woke up to the reality.

Fin.

El Inho

Again if anyone seeks advice on these 'companies' please feel free to PM me and I will share my exact experience and with whom exactly the company was etc.

I would be only delighted to ensure no more people get sucked into this needlessly.

lala88

Agent J has gone very quiet

Steve O

Honestly, let me tell anyone contemplating working for these companies.

If you can handle door to door sales, you can handle anything. Start your own business, from your parents basement if needs be, earn 100% commission instead of giving it to these snakes.

irishjig69b

How could u earn 100% comm??