Round II, fight. (the 2011 preperation montage)

uberwolf

following on from 180 bpm.

The thread title sounds clever in my head.

So I went and got tested today. Very average results, but I'm not disappointed. A long road ahead however.

2011 goals are a long way from determined. They'll take some shape through the coming months depending on my progress.

I have to build endurance, and I have to shift my lactate threshold much further to the right in power output terms. I also have to stay married.

The test was a different protocol to the one I'm historically familiar with. I was brought to lactate threshold in 3 minute 50Watt increments, and after resting for ten minutes was brought to max output in 1 minute 25Watt increments.

So threshold was c. 225 Watts, and max output was a full minute at 375 Watts @ 74.5KG. In historical tests my threshold was north of 320 Watts with a max only slightly more that 360/370 @ 73KG.

I'm due to receive an email with a proposed training schedule, heavily caveated that it's no replacement for common sense &/or a coach. As ever maximal efforts have been recommended to maintain/sharpen top end output. Threshold efforts to shift LT to the right, and LSD as ever.

So I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I've always liked Joe Friel, and have his most recent edition on the way (first edition is beside the bed!) I want to do three steady months before my next proposed test. I want to work on core strength, basic endurance, and radically alter my LT. And after all of that I want to be fresh and ready for whatever training is set thereafter.

I'm open to hiring a powermeter if it's useful with the info garnered today? http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powermeter-rental-24-c.asp

I will be back in the gym shortly (Friel) and in the simplest form I'd expect: LSD on a Saturday - building from the c.3hrs I'm comfortable with at the mo (albeit at a slightly lower HR than I had been working at)
LT on a Wednesday - building from 2*5 minutes upwards (at a much lower HR than 180bpm!!!)
2*gym sessions (Monday and Thursday look like candidates based on the above.

That's a start, but will have to build rest weeks (weekends aways have already been booked) and perhaps doubling up of LT sessions through December.

Lumen

uberwolf wrote: »

I want to do three steady months before my next proposed test. I want to...radically alter my LT....LT on a Wednesday - building from 2*5 minutes upwards

Ten minutes once a week above LSD? Seems on the ultra-conservative side unless you're nursing an injury.

If you add up all the time you propose to be doing at L3 and L4 in the next three months, what do you get?

uberwolf

Not at all, I would hope to build up as follows
Week 1 2*5mins
Week 2 2*10mins
Week 3 2*15mins
Week 4 1*10mins
Week 5 3*10mins
Week 6 3*15mins
Week 7 1*20 2*15mins
Week 8 1*15mins
Week 9 3*15mins
Week 10 3*20mins

In the past I responded very positively to this step up. Feedback very welcome though. That would bring me pretty much up to the week before Christmas. I'd like to test again just before Christmas but it may be a smidgen too soon.

uberwolf

just looked up the results from a test in Sept 2003. By my reckoning I hadn't raced in over a year at that point. Weight was 71.1KG vs present 75KG and V02 Max was north of 70 vs. present 50.

Lumen

OK, so that's 5.25 hours at threshold over 10 weeks.

Will be interested to see how that affects the LT power. Obviously you're playing the long game...

uberwolf

Lumen wrote: »

OK, so that's 5.25 hours at threshold over 10 weeks.

Will be interested to see how that affects the LT power. Obviously you're playing the long game...

Would you of the view that I could aim to be more aggressive? Obv tailoring to how I react if it is too much.

Lumen

uberwolf wrote: »

Would you of the view that I could aim to be more aggressive? Obv tailoring to how I react if it is too much.

Well, maybe if you can't handle lots of threshold work you should try and do tempo instead. Then over time increase the intensity whilst maintaining the volume.

Are you getting a coach?

uberwolf

Lumen wrote: »

Are you getting a coach?

bit of a catch 22 for me. I want to prove to myself I'm serious/committed before harassing my old coach. But by then I'm in January and it could be too late for a coach to have a real impact.

Plus cost seems pretty high. Not sure what is a reasonable amount mind you, but advertised costs just strike me as high.

I will take PM'd recommendations / solicitations

velo.2010

uberwolf wrote: »

.

The test was a different protocol to the one I'm historically familiar with. I was brought to lactate threshold in 3 minute 50Watt increments, and after resting for ten minutes was brought to max output in 1 minute 25Watt increments.

So threshold was c. 225 Watts, and max output was a full minute at 375 Watts @ 74.5KG. In historical tests my threshold was north of 320 Watts with a max only slightly more that 360/370 @ 73KG.

.

Very test different indeed to what I have done twice myself. Seems like you get a higher max output this way given that Tlac was substantially lower to your max output.

Not sure what this means overall.

uberwolf

one gym session, one accidental lazy weekend, and a slow creeping head cold which still has me unsure whether I'll get out or not tomorrow. Coupled with next weekend being ruled out this is not starting well...

uberwolf

went out. Boards spin. Gentle pace on flats, steady on climbs, of which there were a few. A few stops lowered avrg speed, but 3 1/2hrs out. 75KM covered. Didn't have great legs for the last hour or so. But ok.

uberwolf

didn't realise it had been quite that long. Concious of time creeping past on me though.

Knew the BH was a write off. Last weekend shouldn't have been though...

all that happened was a 5km / 21minute jog. Which hurt. Had niggled my back, and combining that with my first run in 4 or 5 months wasn't bright. But I was keen to do some exercise and it was all I could fit in.

Legs were stiff through Monday and indeed still this evening (Tuesday)

nonetheless. Pulled out the new Turbo for the first time. 2*15 minutes at threshold. In terms of perceived effort it was absolutely grand. HR wandered a wee bit for the final 5 minutes which suggests that was about the height of capacity. Will push it out next week again.

The week ahead sees a gym session and a spin Saturday.

uberwolf

Saturday's intended spin becomes Sundays abbreviated spin. Happy to have got out, bumpy two hours up from the coast to Glencullen via Enniskerry. Felt weak up there and stopped for a minor back spasm. Not super all in all as I cut it short.

2nd weekend in a row that Saturday doesn't happen and Sunday is a half effort to try and make up. I've a few weekends block booked off for various things so need to make better use of the ones I have.

Also need to establish a firmer plan. All very vague at the moment.

levitronix

uberwolf wrote: »

didn't realise it had been quite that long. Concious of time creeping past on me though.

Knew the BH was a write off. Last weekend shouldn't have been though...

all that happened was a 5km / 21minute jog. Which hurt. Had niggled my back, and combining that with my first run in 4 or 5 months wasn't bright. But I was keen to do some exercise and it was all I could fit in.

Legs were stiff through Monday and indeed still this evening (Tuesday)

nonetheless. Pulled out the new Turbo for the first time. 2*15 minutes at threshold. In terms of perceived effort it was absolutely grand. HR wandered a wee bit for the final 5 minutes which suggests that was about the height of capacity. Will push it out next week again.

The week ahead sees a gym session and a spin Saturday.

Just curious is your trainer a powermeter trainer ? what kinda heart rates are you hitting when your at thresold and how long does it take your heart rate to climb when your giving this effort ? how quick is your recovery ?

uberwolf

PM - no. Unfortunately not.
145-150 bpm is the range. It feels tiny tbh, I can sustain a long away above it for a good while.

The non scientist (non realist) in me reckons that through the course of this nominal 12 week stint to mid Jan that my threshold HR will shift to the right...

How quick to get there? Not instant, but I within a minute if I push myself. I'll check for certain tomorrow. Post warmup. But tbh, the warm up is only 20bpm lower.

Recovery? very quick. Drops right off. Again I'll confirm tomorrow. From threshold to 120bpm say?

levitronix

I do something similair but i throw in few mins at race pace zone 4 and come back down to the same kinda rates but im going the other way will be adding more time in zone 4 intervals threw christmas and the new year , hoping for the same shift in threshold power, and i have a power meter on the way so i have no excuse to fail miserably haha

uberwolf

1*20minutes & 1*15 minutes at threshold. I enjoyed that.

uberwolf

2 1/2 hours at steady pace. 146 avrg bpm. No ill effects, well within range once off the bike, but was pushing it a wee bit whilst on bike.

New tights were uncomfortable on shoulders :eek:

uberwolf

Threshold session this evening. At my threshold. Which is to say that I'd misread / misremembered the results of my test and had done my last two turbo sessions at a HR 10bpm below threshold.

20 mins and 15 mins at 155-160bpm with a 6 minute easy in between

morana

Hope you dont mind me commenting!

When you are using the HRM on the turbo you are probably best letting the HR rise of its own accord rather than trying to get it to 170bpm or whatever. When I got my PM 7 years ago(!) I noticed that when I was chasing my Threshold of 172bpm the the wattage was way up above threshold power and it usually took 8 mins to hit 170bpm. So for most of that 8mins I was actually training a different system rather than the targeted system.

What I would say is just chill when it comes to HR and use how hard it feels and let it drift upwards naturally......I use the term drift deliberately

uberwolf

certainly don't mind you commenting! It's very welcome.

I'm still partying like it's 1999. Last time I was training (2000) power meters were available, but I wasn't aware of anyone who had one.

Instinctively, I know what you are referring to. The effort level in those first few minutes is certainly harder than when it beds down. I'm not sure I trust my feel enough to get there slower (I think that's what you're saying?)

morana

yeah thats what I was trying to say

trust your feelings!!!

levitronix

uberwolf wrote: »

Threshold session this evening. At my threshold. Which is to say that I'd misread / misremembered the results of my test and had done my last two turbo sessions at a HR 10bpm below threshold.

20 mins and 15 mins at 155-160bpm with a 6 minute easy in between

Thats a bit mor like it, when you said 145 bpm , i was like thats a bit low !!

levitronix

uberwolf wrote: »

certainly don't mind you commenting! It's very welcome.

I'm still partying like it's 1999. Last time I was training (2000) power meters were available, but I wasn't aware of anyone who had one.

Instinctively, I know what you are referring to. The effort level in those first few minutes is certainly harder than when it beds down. I'm not sure I trust my feel enough to get there slower (I think that's what you're saying?)

Im doing a very similiar program right now, think i mentioned it before, i havent got my power meter yet, but i ve got to know the trainer and gears and use the resistance and cadence to reach my threshold.. I know if stick on level 6 small 17 im bang on button for 90rpms for near pearfect threshold and hold that for the intervals

uberwolf

right so.

Saturday. 3 1/2hrs in targeted zone, up and back around the Blessington Lakes. 85km. Tired afterwards. More procrastination before I got out the door.

Tomorrow
15 & 20 targeting threshold on the turbo
actual - 20 & 20 at threshold, taking morana's advice on board and not forcing the HR into the zone, but gauging effort and letting the HR follow. Comfortable enough tbh.
other thoughts-hungry coming home, so ate a yoghurt, some ham before hopping up. Not ideal. Had grabbed an apple in the afternoon, but still had stomach aches en route home and limited motivation to hop up. Once on board, no issues.
Wednesday
Gym session - quick re acquaintance with the weights
actual gym, meet uberwolf, uberwolf, meet the gym
Leg Press 4*15 @ 120KG
Low Row 3*10 @ 60KG
Shoulder Press 3*5 @ 40KG - tough
Chest Press 3*10 @ 50KG - also tough
Core work.
Arms not delighted with that
will have to add a few additional exercises - core, squats, lunges, some pull ups, push ups, lat pull down, heel raise.
Thursday
Turbo session
20 & 20
actual nada. Left work hours late and did nothing.
Friday
Potential gym session
actual short turbo session
2*8 minutes targetting threshold + 2 minutes at 180bpm capping those 8 minute sessions

Monday
Gym session
actual nada. It would be fair to say that the weekend wasn't conducive to athletic performance, and I'm tired and a little sick feeling.
Tuesday
15&20
actual - see monday
Wednesday
Gym session
Thursday
3*15 mins at threshold
Friday
Night out
Saturday
50km MTB session
Actual - 1hr 30 on turbo due to ice on roads. Dull but important to do something after a week with a bug. Seems to be just about clearing. Session wasn't overly comfortable towards the end.
Sunday
3hrs planned.
actual nothing. Couldn't bring myself to get back up on the turbo, and life got in the way.

See how I am after that. Session this weekend was tough to a point, fine, and plenty left in the tank but tired afterwards. Legs ok, fine in fact, but tired for the evening.

I reckon I might cap my spins at c. 4hours. From a racing perspective I don't need more time, and from a domestic purpose I can't push my luck by being out of action for an entire day after a spin. I think recovery time is better dedicated to higher intensity stuff during the week.

I will have to start working some variation into my turbo sessions once I get up to 45 / 50 mins at threshold, which is a good length of time. I have plenty more adaptation to do in order to bring my output to a respectable level at threshold.

All a little haphazard though

uberwolf

like everyone weather playing havoc. I haven't the heart to do long sessions on the turbo, but am resigned to do a ticking over style session every weekend that there is no alternative.

The weekend off in the middle was compounded by a slight bug all week, which stopped me from doing anything.

I haven't being doing any gym work, which needs correction. I'll have to be patient and not rush the gym work along when I start, which may mean delaying more intense cardio work so that both are happening in tandem.

Plan for weeks ahead.

Mon - 6th
Turbo - 2 * 20 mins at 160-165bpm
actual as above. First twenty fine, second twenty took a while to get going, felt like I was between gears/resistance a little. In both sections I could have stretched it on no problem though. Actual workload level feels very comfortable

Thursday
Gym Session
actual
Leg Press 4*15 @ 120KG
Low Row 3*10 @ 60KG
Chest Press 2*5 @ 60KG & 2*5 @ 60KG
Core work.
lunges - 2 * 10 with 20kg plate
Saturday
2 1/2 hrs & 12 pubs.
12 pubs
Monday - 13th
Turbo 3 * 15 threshold
nothing - back issues from the weekend persisted
Tuesday
Turbo
3* 20 minutes at threshold, 1hr 45 on bike in total. Grand really. Happy to get a decent length of time on bike in view of the non event at the weekend. Don't feel like I'm producing much power, but the length of time I can sit just at or over threshold is slightly strange. Historically I always adapted well, but cadence and exertion are both remaining comfortable. Looking forward to retest to see if I'm in the right range. Will schedule for late Jan.
Wednesday
Turbo
3 * 15 threshold
Thursday
Gym

Saturday
3 1/2 hours.

Sun

Mon
Gym
Tues
Turbo - 3 * 15 threshold

Off until New Year (real life once again)

morana

uberwolf wrote: »

Mon - 6th
Turbo - 2 * 20 mins at 160-165bpm
actual as above. First twenty fine, second twenty took a while to get going, felt like I was between gears/resistance a little. In both sections I could have stretched it on no problem though. Actual workload level feels very comfortable

push on so

we will have to watch you next March!!!!

Good luck and keep it going

uberwolf

from the 14th of December to the 5th of Jan with nothing done. I knew I'd be missing some time due to travel over Christmas. I hadn't reckoned on the weather devastating my mileage (I haven't the work ethic to flog my mind on the turbo). To say I indulged over Christmas would be an understatement.

So I'm thrown out into Jan very undercooked vs. my aspirations. And the gym work has been non existent. I am developing my schedule for the year ahead. I'll be buying a MTB this month, and hope to ride the Leinster league (although the calendar details I've found to date are a little bare)

There are one or two geographically convenient in the NPS as well.

The road season is a little less clear. In the aul days, the tougher races, with a genuine climb suited me. The new, slightly less trim, with a brutal FTP will struggle in those races, but being an A4 / A3 in a nervous bunch on a wet day doesn't appeal either, so I'll string that out a little bit until mid March and see where the testing shows me to be and assess the potential at that stage.

I'm 70% that I'll go talk to a coach.

Today
2*15 min at threshold HR of 160 bpm.
Tough. Hot, wrestling with the HR. Second time round was a little easier.

Tomorrow
planned - gym.
actual - nothing

Friday
planned - nothing
actual - gym
4 * 15 sets of leg press @ 120KG
3*10 50KG benchpress
Core work
3*10 60KG low row
core work
2*10 on each side lunges with 20KG plate

Saturday
Planned - weather dependent but two hour minimum turbo if not on the road
actual 2/ 1/2hrs turbo trainer avrg hr 143 bpm. Not tough as such, but certainly feeling it in my legs. Tired now a couple of hours afterwards. Felt it in my thighs, but the gym last night is probable cause.

Sunday
Planned - turbo session with some threshold and a quick one minute interval to cap the threshold sections.
actual - nothing.
Monday
Planned - gym
actual gym
4*15 @ 120kg Leg Press
3*10 @ 50kg chest press
3*10 @ 50kg low row
core work - lots of it.
3*10 @ 40kg squats - form not great, will need work.
concious of some modest crampy (but not cramp) pains - squats were working these in particular

Tuesday
Planned - nothing
actual 1hr 40mins on turbo, 3 * 20 mins at threshold HR
last stint wasn't easy to get going, but fine thereafter.

Wednesday
Planned - turbo
actual nothing. See Tuesday
Thursday
planned - gym
actual Gym
4*15 120 KG leg press
3*10 50 KG chest press
3*10 50 KG low row
core work, lots of.
1*10 @ 10 KG, 1*10 @ 30 KG, 2*10 @ 60KG Free squat.

Saturday
planned - spin.
actual took the chickens route due to weather and hopped up on the turbo again. 2 1/2 hrs. Lower avrg HR than last week, slightly higher cadence. Pretty comfortable stuff. Threw a few half hearted intervals in towards the end. Spun up and upped the resistance for 4 30 second flat outs.

Planet X

morana wrote: »

push on so

we will have to watch you next March!!!!

Good luck and keep it going

You, if you consider, taking on morana, forget it, I've seen him racing in the Vets.
Top Dog!

Nice picture in the Indo. today by the way................

uberwolf

this may well be my last post as I come under the auspices of a coach.

I'm not sure what they'll make of what they find, as I present I half baked set of goals, a half baked body, and a half baked winter thus far.

Monday saw me in the gym
4*15 120 KG leg press
3*10 50 KG chest press
3*10 50 KG low row
core work, lots of.
lunges - 20KG plate

Tuesday
Turbo - twenty minutes at threshold. Discomfort across my chest saw me desist after one interval rather than the planned 3.
I've a further opportunity tomorrow evening so I'll try again.

I had 6 units of alcohol Thurs, again on Saturday, and probably 5 on Sunday. That can't of helped my chest issue, which obv requires monitoring.

levitronix

Must be some kinda secret training plan if your going to finish the blog

uberwolf

I've no idea what the training plan will look like, but I expect a professional would prefer his methods kept private.

levitronix

Thought it would be something like that but dont kill the thread update your improvements curious to see how it helps and how close you get back to form from a few years ago

uberwolf

so a month in, retested today.

Different protocol again today. Threshold seems to have shifted west by about 30 watts or so.

Structured training is less mind numbing, turbo sessions designed to simulate race surges, varying cadences. No maximal work whatsoever, in fact I've hardly breached threshold since I started.

Have ordered a pink number plate, but would aspire to ditch that reasonably promptly - be that by race results or a quick phone call...

Racing is still some 6 weeks away.

Raam

uberwolf wrote: »

Racing is still some 6 weeks away.

Not tempted by the openers this weekend?

uberwolf

Nah, I reckon a dew more weeks structured training will serve me better in the medium term

Lumen

I find your patience disturbing.

levitronix

Lumen wrote: »

I find your patience disturbing.

I think hes planning a come back like a coiled spring !!

califano

More about the marriage please.

uberwolf

Lumen wrote: »

I find your patience disturbing.

hadn't looked at it like that. The racing isn't something I'm keen on at the moment, it's not a lot of fun unless you have the legs!

The other side of it is I'm hoping the bunches have thinned a little by April. Reading the race reports here last year, with stories of nervous bunches and pile ups hasn't bigged it up to much!

levitronix wrote: »

I think hes planning a come back like a coiled spring !!

I'd have a few years training to do if that were the case... It's not going to be pretty when it happens.

rounders123 wrote: »

More about the marriage please.

eh. In respect of the strictly cycling piece it's been a case of balancing matters and getting what training I can in in the morning, rather than being absent in the evenings / weekends.

Raam

I'm sure you know this but the racing will give you the legs quicker than the training. The A3 bunch was fine today. Maybe 75. Very little nerviness from what I saw.

levitronix

thought id dig this out, see where you ended up ?

uberwolf

thanks a bunch for bumping this. :P

do you know, this had been on my mind recently!

nowhere is the answer.

I went and got coaching, followed a program religiously for 3 months additional to what is logged here. That saw me training 6 days a week - 2 core strength days - 1hr each day plus occasional 40 minutes cardio on those days, 3 long cardio days, and 1hr spin out of the legs.

It broke me. Mentally that is. It became a chore. My whole week had to be adapted to the training, and by the time I'd identified that I was fed up it was too late. It didn't help that I'd established no rapport with the coach so didn't feel comfortable approaching him. I'd also established no goals to speak of.

I did two road races and one mtb race. I was fit, but didn't have the speed in my legs to do anything in the road races. I did well in the mtb race.

And I haven't done a tap since.

Lumen

Maybe you should just race more and forget about the training. Club racing is fun and sociable, even if you're able to get out one night a week.

For various reasons I didn't cycle all summer apart from commuting and I was still able to enjoy the last race of the season in semi-limit.

levitronix

Yeah i enjoyed that one too, getting lost out the back of meath haha

Billycake

When you say you haven't done a tap since the MTB race, when was that - around June or July? Out of curiousity was your coach available for face to face contact or was it a web based set up. The web based approach seems to be fairly popoular and I'm curious if it's what you went with.